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Vino posted:Is it crazy that I do it by taking Olympic -> 1 -> 27? It would take twice as long. I've never been on the 27, is it hard mode for biking? Oh buddy if you can go through Topanga Canyon then do that. I lived on the beach in Santa Monica for a summer and commuted that way and it loving RULED. Such a great way to start and end the day.
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May 23, 2023 06:02
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Remy Marathe posted:A resident can correct me, I'm just a regular visitor, but there is not a safe route for a new rider to make that commute. Agreed, but also motorcycling in general. So I would reply to this by saying if you get comfortable riding in LA then you will be fine riding a motorcycle anywhere.
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May 23, 2023 06:05
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I just can't countenance the idea of a newbie on something like the 27/Topanga Cyn between 101 and the coast. I mean I'm also definitely alive by dumb luck, but yikes.
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May 23, 2023 06:08
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My recommendation is definitely for someone comfortably past all the bullet points in Vino's plan of attack. I really don't know what the best way to learn riding on a freeway besides just doing it. Try the 90 Marina Expressway in Marina Del Rey or the higher speed low driveway roads surrounding LAX? Iunno. I did cone drills on my ninja 250 in my cul de sac for a few weeks before getting my license and venturing further.
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May 23, 2023 06:18
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Fair enough, I will not attempt to ride to work by any route any time soon. Thanks for all the thoughts, everyone.
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May 23, 2023 06:25
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Yeah I dunno either, and I know sooner or later everyone says YOLO and tries it. That particular commute stretch is the hard part of L.A. though and the incentive of turning a commute into a ride would make a lot of people push it too fast. Dodging potholes and box trucks tooling around east L.A. you might hit some deader highways.
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May 23, 2023 06:39
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Vino posted:Good call I've been putting together a list of exercises I intend to practice in the parking lot I found: Since you have ABS there won't be a trail you can see, but you'll feel it pulsating in your foot/hand. Try braking until you trigger both, marvel at the stopping power of a modern motorcycle, learn to brace against the g-force to the load on you hands is minimal. You can learn threshold braking by trying to stop effectively by barely not activating the ABS, you can also pull a fuse and disable it if you want to make skid marks. 5+ mph is fast enough that you start turning the bike using countersteer, at 3 mph the handling is totally different and much harder to master IMHO.
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May 23, 2023 07:06
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Don't go filtering or lane splitting until you can do this:  Cones 3 meter (10ft) apart. Slalom. Speed: slow, walking pace or just above, you're mostly upright - not leaning like in a fast slalom. Foot on the rear brake to modulate your speed. Bit of revs. Bit of clutch, keeping it constant, only modulate speed with your brake. Never look at the cone you're actually passing - look into the distance. When filtering, you *will* encounter people that stick out. Either out of stupidity or jealousy. Most situations are easier to pass than the short slalom drill. However, it's really nice to have some 'excess skill' because the absolute last thing you want is to let your bike tip over against someone's car or something. Sometimes someone's scooted over really close to the lane markings and you just have to pass them along their other side. No idea if this is already part of your course, but this is one of the mandatory ones in Europe. Here are a bunch more drills that you have to pass in the Netherlands for the motorcycle control exam (separate from the traffic participation exam): https://www.cbr.nl/nl/rijbewijs-halen/motor/praktijkexamen-motor/oefeningen-motorexamen-voertuigbeheersing-avb.htm I know the page is in dutch, but Google Translate's gotten a lot better and the diagrams speak for themselves. Filtering is motorcycling on hard mode. It can prevent you from some of the worst crashes (and trade them for being bumped over from the side, which is preferable to being rear ended). But you really need to A. have 100% confidence in your vehicle control and B. already have that sixth sense of being able what some stupid driver's gonna do. I didn't filter through traffic jams until months after my exam. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 07:15 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 07:10
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Abs is great for learning the difference between good and bad technique without crashing. I suggest try braking by abruptly slamming the front brake on, then try braking by smoothly, quickly but gradually applying it instead. The first will likely trip the abs immediately, the second likely won't do it at all because you create so much more grip by loading the tyre properly.
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May 23, 2023 07:10
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Slavvy’s advice about loading the front tire is something that really stuck with me and has made me a better rider. Listen to Slavvy. (more than I do)
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May 23, 2023 07:43
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Slavvy posted:Abs is great for learning the difference between good and bad technique without crashing. I suggest try braking by abruptly slamming the front brake on, then try braking by smoothly, quickly but gradually applying it instead. The first will likely trip the abs immediately, the second likely won't do it at all because you create so much more grip by loading the tyre properly. This experiment/drill is part of
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May 23, 2023 08:25
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Same. If you slam it right into ABS'ing without any sort of build up, the instructors here won't let you schedule the exam. You can have ABS actuate, but only after the suspension's fully loaded. IIRC the difference between slamming it on and building it up is between 1 and 2 meters at a starting speed of 50km/h. Might be off a bit, it's been 6 years, but it was absolutely significant. My instructor made us do those drills at the end of a road that was still under construction. If you didn't brake hard enough you'd end up in the sand. No one actually ended up in the sand.
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May 23, 2023 20:27
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LimaBiker posted:Same. If you slam it right into ABS'ing without any sort of build up, the instructors here won't let you schedule the exam. You can have ABS actuate, but only after the suspension's fully loaded. My anecdotal experience tells me the difference is much greater tbh
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May 23, 2023 20:52
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Yeah, it's been a while. The maximum allowed stopping distance at 50km/h was 10 or 12 meters, i don't remember it exactly. Internet says 10, head says 12. Do it right, and you'd stop with about a bike length to spare at best. Do it wrong, and you'd overshoot by about a bike length. The hardest part was getting consistent results. I remember doing the drill like 5 times in a row and being frustrated that i didn't always make it. But eventually everyone did, it was far from the hardest drill in the set. With higher speeds the difference will become much much larger pretty quickly.
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May 23, 2023 22:02
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50km/h = 13.5m/s (30mph = 44ft/s). 1-2m doesn't seem like enough. 2m would be 0.15s, which is pretty quick. I was looking for a brake telemetry graph, but I can't find any for bikes. Here you can see Marc Marquez talking with Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez about the brake curve on a bike versus a car. Brake hard, but start soft, even on a 300hp monster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBwnbMEcnWs&t=178s
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May 23, 2023 22:05
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Took another spin around the neighborhood. Didn't have much time so I didn't go to that parking lot, but I did just ride around some. There was a moment when I was drifting too far to the right unexpectedly and felt like I almost hit something and insta-panicked. Everything was fine but I can definitely feel my confidence in my skills outrunning my actual skills. The bike has a feature where putting the kickstand down kills the engine and I think it's a big contributing factor as to why I haven't dropped the bike yet. What other factors other than "forgot to put down kickstand" might contribute to dropping the bike? Edit: hope you folks don't mind me live-blogging my learning adventure in this thread.
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May 23, 2023 23:05
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 Vino posted:The bike has a feature where putting the kickstand down kills the engine and I think it's a big contributing factor as to why I haven't dropped the bike yet. What other factors other than "forgot to put down kickstand" might contribute to dropping the bike? Stopping or slow speed turns on any kind of an incline can be challenging, particularly when you try to put a foot down and the ground is farther away than you expected. On a lightweight starter bike it's not a big deal but it's another thing you'll need to develop an awareness of while you're still riding something easy to catch.
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May 24, 2023 00:49
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Post away, that's what the thread is for!Vino posted:Everything was fine but I can definitely feel my confidence in my skills outrunning my actual skills. Vino posted:The bike has a feature where putting the kickstand down kills the engine and I think it's a big contributing factor as to why I haven't dropped the bike yet. What other factors other than "forgot to put down kickstand" might contribute to dropping the bike? Putting your foot down on a slick surface when stopping Putting down the sidestand in an unexpectedly soft patch (gravel/dirt, and in some desert places it can get so hot the stand will sink into some paved parking surfaces) Turning way too slowly
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May 24, 2023 00:57
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Thinking 'i must avoid hitting this object' and then proceeding to stare at the object until you hit it and keel over slowly
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May 24, 2023 02:03
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Vino posted:What other factors other than "forgot to put down kickstand" might contribute to dropping the bike? This one just happened to me today for the first time: I was starting the VanVan while standing next to it, the neutral indicator was shining bright green, but it was lying. Because I was warned this happens and habitually release the clutch slowly, it only lurched forward a little before I realized what was happening and just squeezed the clutch in, but it still almost made it off the sidestand.
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May 24, 2023 02:28
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Remy Marathe posted:This one just happened to me today for the first time: I was starting the VanVan while standing next to it, the neutral indicator was shining bright green, but it was lying. Because I was warned this happens and habitually release the clutch slowly, it only lurched forward a little before I realized what was happening and just squeezed the clutch in, but it still almost made it off the sidestand. I'm confused by this, does it mean you start your bike in gear on the stand?
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May 24, 2023 02:31
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I usually park in 1st gear, and when it's time to go I stand next to it, pop it up into neutral and start it up. I guess just to give it a moment to circulate oil while I put on gloves and climb on. This time it clicked into fake "neutral" with green light, something felt off that I couldn't put my finger on, then I started it and started to let out the clutch, and it lurched forward still engaged.
Remy Marathe fucked around with this message at 02:41 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 02:37
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I would recommend only ever starting bikes when you're on them tbh
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May 24, 2023 02:52
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Yeah as I wrote out my habit long-form, it did strike me as sorta unnecessary. I've gathered from other conversations here that "warming up" an engine at idle before taking off is of limited to no value. Is there any point to idling longer than the time it takes for the idle speed to drop to normal before you take off?
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May 24, 2023 03:08
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There is no point to idling for any period of time unless you have a very specific reason eg you own a 90's Ducati. The absolute best and least harmful way to warm up the engine is to wait until the oil light has gone out then just ride off at a sedate pace.
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May 24, 2023 06:49
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I dropped bro's now sold versys 650 (pretty tall, pretty heavy) when I was practicing for getting licenced, going up an incline on a gravel road doing repeated no-foot stop-and-go's. Then I came real close on the same bike trying to make a u-turn on a narrow street in earnest (having gone the wrong way in the previous turn) and I was in neutral and not first like I thought. Then I came very near dropping my 300cc learner bike doing crawl speed drills at the parking lot at work (which I often do when I get in early and there's room, in fact I did some today). I simply hosed up the clutch/throttle balancing act and stalled the engine at full steering lock. To make things worse there was a loaded top box on the bike, also my back was acting up and it was shockingly painful catching the bike. Low and light bike though and I caught it, just barely. I also had some scary moments at higher speeds during my early days as a rider that could have ended badly, like a patch of fluid spill in a roundabout combined with rain, also overcooking corners and tensing up combined with the target fixation Slavvy mentioned. Thankfully I've been bike commuting for over a decade before I got into motorcycling, so my paranoia about drivers was already finely tuned, but in short drivers do bad things and you have to be wary when around them.
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May 24, 2023 06:50
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Remy Marathe posted:Yeah as I wrote out my habit long-form, it did strike me as sorta unnecessary. I've gathered from other conversations here that "warming up" an engine at idle before taking off is of limited to no value. Is there any point to idling longer than the time it takes for the idle speed to drop to normal before you take off? No. In fact, idling for a long time is kind of bad for the engine, because at idle you have very low oil pressure. And it doesn't warm up the engine anywhere near as fast as actually riding the bike. Just get on the bike and ride, and ride gently at moderate RPMs and throttle openings until you see your temperature gauge start to move, or for like 5 minutes. That's it.
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May 24, 2023 07:28
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I am learning that when people say “drop the motorcycle” they don’t mean “oops it fell over while you were dismounting because you did a dumbo” but rather “your rear end were riding it and now both it and your rear end are on the ground”
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May 24, 2023 08:23
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The first kind happens to literally everyone sooner or later, even extremely experienced and physically strong riders, hopefully more rarely as time goes on The second one should never happen and it's almost always because you hosed up somehow. Incidents where crashing was literally unavoidable are pretty rare, usually involve freak circumstances like a giant log falling off the back of a truck, and basically every story to the contrary is cope
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May 24, 2023 08:39
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Vino posted:I am learning that when people say “drop the motorcycle” they don’t mean “oops it fell over while you were dismounting because you did a dumbo” but rather “your rear end were riding it and now both it and your rear end are on the ground” I my mind a "drop" is a bike falling over without significant forward motion, even if I'm straddling it. A crash happens at speed. Not sure if this is right.
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May 24, 2023 09:09
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Thats how I think about it. And as mentioned, everyone will drop a bike eventually. It’s not if, but when. Crashes are a different story entirely.
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May 24, 2023 13:09
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Beve Stuscemi posted:Thats how I think about it. Exactly this. I refuse to accept that I will definitely be in a crash someday and do my best to sharpen my skills both so they’re ready if I need them and so that I know my limits. That “everyone crashes” thing is apologia for folks who won’t accept that they bore any responsibility for their crash and as an excuse not to get good. “I’ll crash someday anyway so meh” Bullshit. I may well crash someday, even if I work my rear end off to be sure it’s less likely to happen. But I don’t accept it as inevitable. If it happens, I’ll try to learn from it and be better because there’s almost certainly something I will have done wrong. Drops, though? Those come for us all. I’m planning on taking a dirt bike training class when I get the chance/funds and the inevitable dirt crashes don’t/won’t count. I got serious about this too late in life to have impressive skills, but I want to dip my toe into every kind of riding I can.
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May 24, 2023 18:47
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the inevitability of motorbike drops reminds me of when I got my first road bicycle with shoes that clip into the pedals, which are called "clipless" because languages are often dumb. Anyways, you need to twist the heels sideways to disconnect the shoes from the pedals, and I heard from multiple sources that everyone who starts using them will eventually forget to unclip and fall over when coming to a stop, at least once, but often only once. Sure enough, after about a week of riding every day it happened to me. Luckily I tipped over into a pretty soft shrubbery without thorns and hurt nothing other than my pride, but I'm sure it looked pretty funny since there were onlookers laughing heartily. Then I learned to unclip, at least it hasn't happened since. When I dropped bro's versys I actually scraped my shin a little on something (footpeg probably) just above the top of the boot so that was actually ever so slightly worse injury-wise, despite much better gear.
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May 24, 2023 19:55
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Meh. I put ~25k miles on three different bikes with SPD pedals and I never ate poo poo just falling over at a stand still. I have ate poo poo in a corner with gravel tho and other stuff Never dropped the Monkey because that's not possible. Dropped the Vee twice now, at basically stand still. More of a gentle "ok I guess my leg isn't going to hold this up, time to slowly fold out from under here" If I don't drop/crash/get separated from my dirt bike, I'm not riding hard enough that day I guess. TotalLossBrain fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 20:08
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God, you make a Monkey so tempting but we already have two scooters that scratch a similar itch.
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May 24, 2023 20:24
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I will never drop my bike I have declared it to ensure that it remains true.
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May 24, 2023 21:39
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Geekboy posted:Exactly this. ehhhh, i think the idea that crashing will happen eventually sooner or later is more of a "buy proper gear dumbass, idc how good you think you are" statement than a "GON HAVTA LAYER DERRRRRRN" statement. at least thats how it sounded to me
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May 25, 2023 00:45
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Invalido posted:the inevitability of motorbike drops reminds me of when I got my first road bicycle with shoes that clip into the pedals, which are called "clipless" because languages are often dumb. Anyways, you need to twist the heels sideways to disconnect the shoes from the pedals, and I heard from multiple sources that everyone who starts using them will eventually forget to unclip and fall over when coming to a stop, at least once, but often only once. Sure enough, after about a week of riding every day it happened to me. Luckily I tipped over into a pretty soft shrubbery without thorns and hurt nothing other than my pride, but I'm sure it looked pretty funny since there were onlookers laughing heartily. Then I learned to unclip, at least it hasn't happened since. When I dropped bro's versys I actually scraped my shin a little on something (footpeg probably) just above the top of the boot so that was actually ever so slightly worse injury-wise, despite much better gear. They are called "clipless" because the previous old school technology of attaching your foot to a pedal was called the "clip and strap". It's those cage thingies you put your feet in that you may have seen on old bicycles, with either nylon or leather straps that you cinch down around your shoe. When Look released the pedals that attach to your special shoes, it was called "clipless" because you no longer needed the cage and the "straps" went into your tool chest. And that's bicycle history for ya *sniffs big can of vittoria tubular glue* Regarding crashing/falling over, does location matter? I generally say i've fallen over 4 times on my motorcycle, 2 were in a parking lot while practicing drills and such; 2 while making a uturn on roads and messing up bad enough where i just came to a stop basically and laid on the side. Russian Bear fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 00:46
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OMGVBFLOL posted:ehhhh, i think the idea that crashing will happen eventually sooner or later is more of a "buy proper gear dumbass, idc how good you think you are" statement than a "GON HAVTA LAYER DERRRRRRN" statement. at least thats how it sounded to me I always hear it from HADALAYERDOWN dudes or people who fret because they only know what they’ve heard on the nightly news, so I read it differently. I wear gear and just upgraded my boots and helmet, so I definitely err in that direction.
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May 25, 2023 01:58
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You just have to make it look smooth and people will be amazed https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrqUAjQgWvF/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Hoping this is visible to you goons
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May 25, 2023 01:58
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