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rideANDxORdie posted:Just out of curiosity, which factions do you all think have bad economies? High elfs have a pretty not-great economy and fairly expensive troops, but they're so good at securing trade deals it's nbd. The chaos factions aren't great on the economy front but they're really not supposed to be building up.
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May 25, 2023 02:44
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rideANDxORdie posted:Just out of curiosity, which factions do you all think have bad economies? and because interacting with it keeps me from fully enjoying a rakarth playthrough
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May 25, 2023 02:58
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rideANDxORdie posted:Just out of curiosity, which factions do you all think have bad economies? The latter two rely on fighting/sacking; the former just has the shittiest economy buildings in the game.
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May 25, 2023 02:58
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rideANDxORdie posted:Growth is part and parcel of economy. So is public order. If you want to say Dwarf economy is good at turn 75, okay. Everyone's is. Dwarfs notoriously have one of the worst early game economies specifically because of their glacial growth and public order malus from grudges. Like, the direction of your points are vaguely true, but the hyperbole you're throwing down here to "win" this argument is big time lols. All of your points besides dwarf starting economy being slow are just flatly untrue. Ungrim gets slayers at 169 upkeep vs quarrelers at 138. Full stack of ungrim slayers are 3511 vs a full throek stack of quarrelers at 2872. Its 18% cheaper, not 75%. And that's without any skill points or gear, Ungrim will get -5% from his quest gear, and if you go blue line you can get that -8% on top (tbf, every dwarf can grab the blue line one). Additionally, grudges aren't a problem anymore, they fixed the initially issues they had at 3.0 launch. Which, isn't even really an issue for Ungrim because more grudgin' means more Slayers, making him capable of replenishing his stack anywhere if he actually manages to lose units. Is Thorek on the net a better LL capable of better doomstacks? Ya, he's one of the most busted lords in the game leveled up. But you're making it seem like Ungrim and his slayer stack are not only inferior, but flatly bad. And that's just wrong, Ungrim can clean fuckin' house. I encourage you to give it a whirl again while putting yourself into the slayertide mindset for him to go out and seek death. Go rip and tear through the Chaos Dwarves, or end the Vampire Wars before they can start as your backup stacks clean up the mountains. Ungrim's stack can bring in so much money with a combination of ABC and selling to your friends that you don't really need to worry about money until your economy kicks online around turn 30-35 for him (you should have the gold resources in Gunbad + Karak Ungor, and if you went straight for Vlad's throat, that as well, which combined with tools don't need to be that high a tier to really be bringing in the money). Ungrim owns, but you shouldn't play him as a dwarf who happens to have some slayers. He's the slayer king. Get slaying. TaintedBalance fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 03:01
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I'm reading the Warhammer Wiki page on the End Times and it's crazy that the article is dozens of pages long but only a summary.
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May 25, 2023 03:39
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and it itself was rushed and not fully fleshed out. only 5 books, see?
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May 25, 2023 03:42
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Heres what you need to know: - Mannfred is a loving loser - Grimgor is Da Best - Lol Chaos wins
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May 25, 2023 03:43
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm reading the Warhammer Wiki page on the End Times and it's crazy that the article is dozens of pages long but only a summary. Post whatever it is that makes you roll your eyes and give up, I forget what it was for me but there's some reeeeeeeaaaaal dumb poo poo in there
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May 25, 2023 03:43
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Kislev, Norsca, VCoast Kislev's economy is truly dire to the point where it really needs some kind of rework, IMO.
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May 25, 2023 03:47
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jokes posted:High elfs have a pretty not-great economy and fairly expensive troops, but they're so good at securing trade deals it's nbd. The chaos factions aren't great on the economy front but they're really not supposed to be building up. As soon as you can hit 100 PO in your provinces, HE's economy goes crazy. It's just not great til then.
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May 25, 2023 04:44
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Kanos posted:Kislev's economy is truly dire to the point where it really needs some kind of rework, IMO. It's not great but you can fund what you need, just don't make every stack a doomstack. The ability they have that makes all their low tier troops basically unbreakable is really strong.
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May 25, 2023 06:14
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rideANDxORdie posted:LOL okay, I'm not sure if we're even playing the same game at this point. If you guys want to play Ungrim, do it You are pretty much coming across as the Arghy of Ungrim rn. Slayertiding is piss easy and comically effective.
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May 25, 2023 06:21
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GokuGoesSSj69 posted:It's not great but you can fund what you need, just don't make every stack a doomstack. The ability they have that makes all their low tier troops basically unbreakable is really strong. Yeah but having one good stack and a bunch of kossar spam stacks is extremely boring and sucks. Not everyone needs infinite money but pinching pennies to the degree Kislev has to leads to an extremely boring midgame. Almost all of the other "bad economy" factions can eventually solve their bad economy by cracking open enemy cities like piggy banks, but Kislev's sack bonuses kind of aren't there.
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May 25, 2023 06:26
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I got a Ku'gath VH/N campaign, which means I've gotten all the campaign achievements for every race in game 3! I just need the multiplayer ones and two more platinum medals in Mirror of Madness, and I'll have everything! I did RoC on all of these because I'm weird. Do short IE campaign objectives count? Do the Champions of Chaos count for their respective gods? Nurgle armies are more anvil than hammer, but what is the best hammer? I mostly had armies of Nurglings and Plaguebearers, supplemented by Plague Drones, Great Unclean Ones, and Soul Grinders when I could, plus some early Plague Toads. I didn't try most of the mortal units from the CoC DLC. Money was tight so upgrades were rare. I'm not sure what Nurgle has that's meant to counter big entities like Terracotta Sentinels, Kislev War Bears, and Soul Grinders, but attrition worked often enough. The plague symptom that gives you vanguard deployment was a good substitute for having units fast enough to close in on enemy archers. I made friends with the Chorfs and got enough allegience points for a couple Dreadquake Mortar trains, which may have not been the wisest investment, but were cool to have. Those, and spamming bound Blight Boils from my GuOs made for some pretty nasty openers. I got some anti-large bull centaurs for the final battle.
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May 25, 2023 06:35
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Kanos posted:Yeah but having one good stack and a bunch of kossar spam stacks is extremely boring and sucks. Not everyone needs infinite money but pinching pennies to the degree Kislev has to leads to an extremely boring midgame. In realms of chaos at least a lovely kossar stack can own anything the nurgles to the north of you will send so if you can get one up there to sack them you'll be rolling in money. I haven't played kislev in immortal empires.
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May 25, 2023 06:46
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Also I haven't posted in the Deus Ex thread for years and this is the only games thread I've been posting in lately so if someone here gave me this cool new custom title I appreciate it, it's great!
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May 25, 2023 06:52
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For your co-op game the correct answer is empire (franz) and empire (gelt)
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May 25, 2023 07:40
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I am a fan of new arghy
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May 25, 2023 07:40
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Dr Christmas posted:I got a Ku'gath VH/N campaign, which means I've gotten all the campaign achievements for every race in game 3! I just need the multiplayer ones and two more platinum medals in Mirror of Madness, and I'll have everything! I did RoC on all of these because I'm weird. Do short IE campaign objectives count? Do the Champions of Chaos count for their respective gods? Nurgle relies heavily on heroes for anti large duty either through the direct damage spell, or the exalted hero on horse did great work for me. Don't sleep on exalted bearers and drones ranged attack either. They will melt large single entities (including Ku'Gath often).
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May 25, 2023 07:55
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Communist Thoughts posted:gonna play some coop with a friend tomorrow, anyone got any ideas for a fun faction to team up with kislev in IE? Oxyotl
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May 25, 2023 09:56
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rideANDxORdie posted:Just out of curiosity, which factions do you all think have bad economies? Kislev, who cannot afford anything but t1 unit spam until late, and that's off the back of using LL cost reduction for their high-tier units. They also have 3 excellent cities who all produce great income, but any expansion is hampered because their other province income is quite poor, with very poor returns on investment and high upfront costs. They do have %based bonuses factionwide on resource buildings so can eventually get alright, and later game can run some decent stacks using -30% sled heroes to bring down that cost, so they do have some mitigating factors. They also don't have any raid/sack money. It's a drat good thing for them how effective base kossar spam is against the AI. HE have a weird thing with public order where their economy isn't good (not terrible either though) until they can regularly hit 100 PO, and then income, like, doubles. Which is fine, you mostly play the PO building tax, but it does slow you early. Norsca and VCoast get a small shout out as having poor economies who get by anyway on sacking bonuses. I also remember Nurgle's economy being pretty poor but it's been ages and I only played Kugath in RoC.
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May 25, 2023 09:59
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Bad economies hmm-Nurgle. Some armies make it really obnoxious to hold territory. Kislev is famously hard, Norsca got a bit better but they still should just ignore it entirely and sack to stay out of red, VCoast can make a land empire but it's vastly easier to roam as a Doomstack. Wood Elves. Tomb Kings have an early challenge of taking as much land as possible for road spam but being army limited on actually holding it. Dwarves don't have it as easy as say, Dark Elves, where you can set up 5 digit mega sacks, but you have traditionally defensive territory with traditionally defensive armies where you can post battle raise the income and growth of the defending province. You almost always get rapid gold mine access. I'd say Dwarves are middle of the road. They don't have super easy set ups like Beastmen or super powerful district building like a Bretonnian economy but nothing really holds them back other than growth for raw slot numbers.
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May 25, 2023 10:00
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Kislev is interesting because their economy sucks, so you have a lot of kossar stacks that get mulched sem-regularly that you use to plug holes till your actual good army or two arrives. Makes for an interesting, different feeling campaign to say empire or Cathay.
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May 25, 2023 13:33
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Nurgle's baseline economy is one of the worst in the game, but they have one of the best sack economies in the game, so I'd honestly put them in the upper echelons. The very, very early game is horrid but once you get the right plagues going you pretty much stop caring about money because kicking over a single province capital lets you build a couple of your insanely overpriced 5 digit cost buildings and still have change left over to keep you going until you kick over the next one.
Kanos fucked around with this message at 13:41 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 13:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkkVb7um_lk
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May 25, 2023 15:13
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patch notes are here: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-310/ Grail Relique: To reflect this, the Icon of Devotion ability now buffs melee attack and has had it’s overall leadership buff reduced slightly. hell yeah Brettonia updates I R SMART LIKE ROCK fucked around with this message at 15:33 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 15:17
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RoRs rule. Boglars!!! drat Greasus got a real nice QoL update and can ruin a huge gap in the front when he finally reaches it. AoE debuff hex! That's it though. Chorf balance patch has hit. Hah, they actually halved Astragoth's mass. I wonder if anything can know down 2500 mass? Will be T Pose? The melee/artillery demon trains are worth trying again now, they fixed their attacks. Bone Giant accuracy buff. 
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May 25, 2023 15:58
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Just wanna chime in and say I was right about the shootyness of blunderbussy. No nerfs whatsoever to how they shoot, though they did lose charge defence. So they will be a bit more vulnerable to cavalry, but will otherwise shoot exactly as they did before. Working as intended.
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May 25, 2023 16:15
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hell yeah the chorffy blunderbussy still goin strong
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May 25, 2023 16:17
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Magma cannons might have gotten nerfed into the ground though, if I'm reading the stats correctly. They doubled the calibration area, which I think is how random the shots can be. So they are shorter ranged and will be off target more often. Edit: OH gently caress Delves got the Chorf rush construction mechanic. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 16:19
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Alctel posted:Kislev is interesting because their economy sucks, so you have a lot of kossar stacks that get mulched sem-regularly that you use to plug holes till your actual good army or two arrives. This is true, though I wish there was a way for more early unit variety that keeps the current campaign experience. Having a poor economy does not necessarily mean they aren't a fun campaign!
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May 25, 2023 16:23
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Impermanent posted:hell yeah the chorffy blunderbussy still goin strong The blunderbussy stands above all others
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May 25, 2023 16:26
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Nerfing The Dead Rise multiple ways and giving WoC a legendary hero who strips the "Undead" tag from nearby undead. Feels good to hate fighting vampires today folks
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May 25, 2023 16:28
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I don't mind fighting vamps until Vlad is the only model left and wipes like five regiments single-handedly
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May 25, 2023 16:43
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Thank god for that The Dead Rise nerf, it was absurd and made me avoid playing in areas where there were VC LLs due to how annoying it made being sieged.Dramicus posted:Just wanna chime in and say I was right about the shootyness of blunderbussy. No nerfs whatsoever to how they shoot, though they did lose charge defence. So they will be a bit more vulnerable to cavalry, but will otherwise shoot exactly as they did before. Yeah I'm fine with this due to all the other outliers getting brought back down to more reasonable levels. Chorfs had both the strongest long range (Magma Cannons) AND short range shooting in the game. Blunderbusses are now more vulnerable to cavalry and bull renders aren't as oppressive; their broken spells were made more reasonable, the K'daai, Iron Daemons and Deathshriekers are much, much better now and both Astragoth and their ability to stack fire vulnerability are a bit more reasnable too.
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May 25, 2023 16:44
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If you're aggressive enough on the strategic level Chorfs can be pretty big pushovers too. AI seems to cluster the actual dwarf units in one doomstack, so once you destroy that, all they've got left between you and their cities are the completely feckless swarms of slave chaff
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May 25, 2023 16:49
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ninjahedgehog posted:If you're aggressive enough on the strategic level Chorfs can be pretty big pushovers too. AI seems to cluster the actual dwarf units in one doomstack, so once you destroy that, all they've got left between you and their cities are the completely feckless swarms of slave chaff  At least thats what I think I read somewhere; the Chorf AI definitely doesnt manage a laborer economy or any of their other resources
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May 25, 2023 16:53
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:The Chorf AI doesnt play with unit caps They also don't play with labour or arms or any of the special stuff.
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May 25, 2023 16:54
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I watched the stream and the new legendary hero is a khorne guy harry the hammer. Presented with a fun video with some vamps in it, I'm sure they'll drop it on their channel.
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May 25, 2023 17:29
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Twigand Berries posted:I watched the stream and the new legendary hero is a khorne guy harry the hammer. Presented with a fun video with some vamps in it, I'm sure they'll drop it on their channel. He has an aura that removes the "Undead" trait from undead units. So they run away from him. John Warhammer gives no fucks.
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May 25, 2023 17:34
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