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Lobster God posted:https://twitter.com/UnseenOps/status/1661499544297717762?t=KRn_DRjyz58NMurlD9ExnQ&s=19 bulletsponge13 posted:That poo poo fucks hard. GD_American posted:The Cole is a damage control success story. Not the biggest (that'd be the Samuel B. Roberts, which was an essentially goddamned miraculous save), but far better than the cautionary tale of the Stark. You can't bring up the Roberts without posting the screwdriver pic. 
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May 26, 2023 03:51
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AlternateNu posted:Modern torpedoes don't damage ships by exploding on them. This reminds me the AF released more angles of that guidance kit that lets JDAM turn boats into bridges boat not like to be bridge. https://youtu.be/37qDHY9b6Lk
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May 26, 2023 03:54
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https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661763740880994310 Oryx finally showing his true colors
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May 26, 2023 03:56
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Handsome Ralph posted:You can't bring up the Roberts without posting the screwdriver pic. I really want to hear that story.
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May 26, 2023 04:05
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Borscht posted:https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661763740880994310 https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661764064517804033?t=pDWMdeczaKbJFbVHDfsXLg&s=19 
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May 26, 2023 04:11
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Subjunctive posted:I really want to hear that story. Well you can read about it right here! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Samuel_B._Roberts_(FFG-58)
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May 26, 2023 04:12
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Flyinglemur posted:Well you can read about it right here! I tried to look it up early and got the wrong USS Samuel B Roberts which resulted in my falling down my yearly Battle Off Samar hole and reading about yet another ship doing insane things.
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May 26, 2023 04:13
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Handsome Ralph posted:You can't bring up the Roberts without posting the screwdriver pic. Im confused by the significance of the screwdriver.
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May 26, 2023 04:17
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Flyinglemur posted:Well you can read about it right here! The word “screwdriver” does not appear on that page!
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May 26, 2023 04:18
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Essentially the ship broke in half and was hinging open, the bad way. Every come-along, chainfall, rope and cable on the ship was used to hinge it back shut. The ship itself was a total loss, but since the US Navy would be completely damned before it'd let the Iranians crow that one of their mines destroyed a US Navy ship, they essentially committed the shipyard version of VIN washing, by jacking several completed modules from the next ship of that class being built to turn it into a modern Ship of Theseus. The screwdriver is a makeshift cotter pin.
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May 26, 2023 04:20
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Telsa Cola posted:Im confused by the significance of the screwdriver. Load bearing screwdriver. It's like jamming a screwdriver into an upper a-arm mount of a 2004 Dodge Ram and balling duct tape around it to get four miles down the road to where you can actually fix it. Or something. I wouldn't know. Necessity is a motherfucker.
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May 26, 2023 04:26
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bulletsponge13 posted:Not a bombologist, but from my basic (VERY basic, so if one of you is a Bombologist, feel free to correct me), maritime weapons have slightly different considerations. Generally speaking, we do not tend to armour ships as we did in the past and the precise methods by which hulls are designed and constructed to make them as resilient as possible is something that is not openly discussed for obvious reasons, though the basics remain the same as they have been for a century or more-- compartmentalization, layered hulls, redundant systems and so on. In the USN and most other NATO navies (I can attest to this from experience with the RCN), every person in a ship has basic damage control training so as to reduce the likelihood of a hull loss after the two dozen people trained in those skills are killed or incapacitated in an unlucky hit to the engine spaces. As you'd expect, training and doctrine matter an awful lot and conscripts tend to lack the time for the former and a full awareness of the latter (as was seen in the case of Moskva, but there were also serious construction and maintenance issues present there as well). With that said, a large surface explosion absolutely can do terrible things to a modern warship-- consider at Jutland in 1917, where British armour piercing caps were snapping off of their heavy shells if they struck armour at anything resembling an oblique angle but still detonating outside of the vital spaces of their German targets. The resulting blast damage snapped the rivets securing armour plates or buckled them if they were thin enough, started fires and caused horrendous amounts of spalling that filled the air inside of the affected spaces with clouds of razor sharp metal fragments. Even though most of the German capital ships made it back to port, many of them took such a beating that they were out of service for several months to a year afterwards, and in some instances new construction had to be launched and then delayed to make repairs to capital ships that were nearly sinking. And this was against German battleships and battlecruisers with armour plate up to ten or twelve inches thick-- not modern ships with considerably lighter hulls. My training on this is not extensive, but I could easily see several hundred pounds of high explosive strapped to a surface drone doing tremendous damage. As others have cited, USS Cole was nearly lost to a very similar attack. GD_American posted:Essentially the ship broke in half and was hinging open, the bad way. Every come-along, chainfall, rope and cable on the ship was used to hinge it back shut. This is a proud naval tradition-- during WW1 and WW2, the RN spliced the forward section of one destroyed warship (usually a destroyer or other small combatant) to the aft section of another ship of the same or similar class to create a new vessel from the remains of another. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Zubian Fearless fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 26, 2023 |
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May 26, 2023 04:30
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Modern ships are tremendously strong not from thick armor plate, but from incredibly rigid, multiply redundant interior framing. It's largely meant to keep a hull seaworthy over 30 years of getting pounded and flexed in heavy seas. As mentioned multiple times, compartmentalization is also a saving grace. But, modern anti-ship weapons are so destructive that there is no real intent to armor. Everything now is about not being seen, and failing that, not being hit.
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May 26, 2023 04:36
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For you infantryman, imagine wearing Level IV plates and full kit on an open field where everybody is tossing around .50 black tips as the smallest ordinance.
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May 26, 2023 04:53
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shame on an IGA posted:This reminds me the AF released more angles of that guidance kit that lets JDAM turn boats into bridges That's a major advance in the lethality of a US carrier group. If a JDAM can do that, so can an JDAM-ER. https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1661724151520849920?s=20 One thing to note is that the explosion happens right aft. This ship has very limited freeboard aft, and the boom is happening right where it can hurt propellers and rudders. There's an excellent chance that this strike crippled the target. It's too far aft to be a very likely threat to flotation, but important systems are located right where the drone detonated.
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May 26, 2023 04:59
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M_Gargantua posted:For you infantryman, imagine wearing Level IV plates and full kit on an open field where everybody is tossing around .50 black tips as the smallest ordinance. Honstly, a 16" shell from the 40s would probably dunk on armor that a lot of anti-ship missiles might not handle, but you can't exactly launch one of those from many dozens or hundreds of miles away and hit a target reliably. And shattering radars can be good enough.
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May 26, 2023 05:06
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PurpleXVI posted:I tried to look it up early and got the wrong USS Samuel B Roberts which resulted in my falling down my yearly Battle Off Samar hole and reading about yet another ship doing insane things. I end up doing the same thing with Taffy 3 "A large Japanese fleet has been contacted. They are fifteen miles away and headed in our direction. They are believed to have four battleships, eight cruisers, and a number of destroyers. This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can." 
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May 26, 2023 05:15
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mlmp08 posted:Honstly, a 16" shell from the 40s would probably dunk on armor that a lot of anti-ship missiles might not handle, but you can't exactly launch one of those from many dozens or hundreds of miles away and hit a target reliably. And shattering radars can be good enough. The Kh-22 for example had a shaped charge which, being a 1000kg charge, could out perform a 16" shell from 300 miles. (I don't know how many they ever built and their accuracy was reportedly pretty bad, but still)
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May 26, 2023 05:20
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Flyinglemur posted:There is zero chance that the Russian Navy can do any damage control so bumping against a sea turtle could send one to the bottom. Some point backthread I talked about visiting Varyag, Moskva's sistership which was making a port visit in happier times, and one of my takeaway impressions was painted-in shoring timber that did not say great things about their DC readiness.
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May 26, 2023 05:22
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Telsa Cola posted:Im confused by the significance of the screwdriver. It's holding that cable in place. The cable looks to be helping hold the bow on.
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May 26, 2023 05:51
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I endorse that repair, BTW.
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May 26, 2023 05:51
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mllaneza posted:That's a major advance in the lethality of a US carrier group. If a JDAM can do that, so can an JDAM-ER. What can a JDAM-EST accomplish?
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May 26, 2023 11:18
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A.o.D. posted:What can a JDAM-EST accomplish? It hits an hour before, since it’s on EST and not DST 
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May 26, 2023 11:37
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I was gonna make that joke but even I thought it was too dumb also using bestcoast time
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May 26, 2023 11:39
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A.o.D. posted:What can a JDAM-EST accomplish? Arrives three hours before a JDAM-PST
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May 26, 2023 11:41
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https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1660968087825313792 Content: Remember Russia's "dragon teeth" anti-tank barriers they were furiously building last year? This features a video of a Ukrainian tank just driving over them at a reasonably fast clip. Seems to jolt around the tank some, though, would this be expected to actually damage the tank or just rattle the crew a little? https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1661661536216141825 quote:The EU is discussing the transfer of profits from Russian assets worth €196.6 billion, of which €180 billion are Russian central bank assets, to #Ukraine. These assets were frozen in the Belgian clearing center #Euroclear due to sanctions, the Financial Times reported. https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1662001852840390659 quote:The Polish Parliament has submitted a bill to amend the country's Constitution, which will legally confiscate frozen Russian assets, Wprost reported. There have also been more and more reports of confiscated/frozen Russian assets being transferred to Ukraine. Considering they tend to be in the billions of dollars/euros, that has to be a further sting for Russia's economy, and with Ukraine having a GDP of ~200 billion USD, that's also going ot be a windfall keeping them well afloat for a while even in the middle of a war.
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May 26, 2023 12:35
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I ran across a report some months ago that mentioned the estimated cost of rebuilding would at that point be around 800billion $, so that hunk of cash would probably be very happily received.
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May 26, 2023 12:44
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Saw this in the GBS thread, not sure how accurate this account is but I thought it was interesting https://twitter.com/tsologoub/status/1661980334232317953
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May 26, 2023 12:46
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Those assets were confiscated from Russia a year ago, this isn't doing any new damage to the Russian economy that wasn't already done a year ago. It will probably help Ukraine and they need the help. It's also taking repatriation of those assets off the table for future negotiations, which at this point is just acknowledging that this war isn't ending in negotiations any time immediately soon.
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May 26, 2023 12:51
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PurpleXVI posted:Content: Remember Russia's "dragon teeth" anti-tank barriers they were furiously building last year? This features a video of a Ukrainian tank just driving over them at a reasonably fast clip. Seems to jolt around the tank some, though, would this be expected to actually damage the tank or just rattle the crew a little?
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May 26, 2023 12:56
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Invalido posted:A long time ago I was crewing a leopard 2. Another tank in my company hit a boulder hidden under snow at speed. Not only was the tank high centered and needed to be pulled off this rock, it also made a big shallow dent in the bottom armor. This dent didn't affect the tank during our normal training l operations at all but the impact also tweaked the firewall separating the crew space and engine compartment, where there's a big valve so that you can open to draw intake air to the engine through the turret hatches when deep fording. This valve would no longer seal right after the impact which compromised the crew's NBC protection IIRC. The tank was eventually repaired but it was a remove the turret affair so a pretty big deal. So yeah, I think you can probably mess up a tank speeding over large pointy concrete objects. yeah, my take is that that video is for propaganda purposes, and that they're using some already damaged tank that wouldn't be fit for front line use for it
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May 26, 2023 13:19
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I thought it was shown that these specific tank barriers were being laid unanchored and were hollow. I remember an image of one already cracked, and being able to see that it was only a concrete shell. Would a boulder, being solid and somewhat buried, cause more damage than a concrete shell that's not buried?
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May 26, 2023 13:41
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PurpleXVI posted:https://twitter.com/WhereisRussia/status/1660968087825313792 The video makes it look like those things ain't poo poo, but I guarantee you the tracks on any armored vehicle do not like that. Like, at all. The design of those "dragon teeth" may be a bit odd because it doesn't look like they're anchored in the ground (think Siegfried line bullshit), so if you drive into them concrete triangles, they'll tip over and you can probably safely drive over them without throwing a track. You should not, however, drive into them at speed like the folks in the video. Tracks have mixed feelings about that.
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May 26, 2023 13:45
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ChubbyChecker posted:yeah, my take is that that video is for propaganda purposes, and that they're using some already damaged tank that wouldn't be fit for front line use for it We need to compare the structural robustness of a ''solid'' russian pyramid versus a large rock and go from there. 
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May 26, 2023 13:47
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https://twitter.com/tsologoub/status/1661980334232317953 If I remember right this was the reporting in the day or two before the Moskva sank, too, it started its career as a submarine right after they started towing. EDIT: Whoops I missed this had been posted in here already, my bad.
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May 26, 2023 13:48
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The way I see it; better a few dinged tank undercarriages than sitting still for too long trying to clear it and risk artillery fire on you.
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May 26, 2023 14:00
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Ionicpsycho posted:I thought it was shown that these specific tank barriers were being laid unanchored and were hollow. I remember an image of one already cracked, and being able to see that it was only a concrete shell. Concrete is one of those things that's extremely susceptible to corruption. Corrupt contractors and building inspectors pocket millions of dollars by using sub-standard mixes, which is one of the reasons why so many buildings in places like Mexico City and Turkey crumble during relatively minor earthquakes. So I 100% guarantee that whatever Russian company they hired to do this is doing the same.
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May 26, 2023 14:11
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psydude posted:Concrete is one of those things that's extremely susceptible to corruption. Corrupt contractors and building inspectors pocket millions of dollars by using sub-standard mixes, which is one of the reasons why so many buildings in places like Mexico City and Turkey crumble during relatively minor earthquakes. "Contract says concrete. Concrete contains sand. Therefor, sand is concrete." But in Russian.
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May 26, 2023 14:28
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ArmyGroup303 posted:To paraphrase conversations I've had with sailors: "Every Marine a rifleman, every sailor a firefighter." There's a cool series on Smarter Every Day where he visits a nuclear sub, and one of the episodes goes into detail on damage control https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajK1QMP7ZyI
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May 26, 2023 14:51
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ChubbyChecker posted:yeah, my take is that that video is for propaganda purposes, and that they're using some already damaged tank that wouldn't be fit for front line use for it A boulder is substantially more tough than the sand filled wish.com concrete teeth the Russians have been deploying. I remember a video of a UA guy taking a sludge hammer to one and bashing it to huge chucks in like five swings
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May 26, 2023 14:54
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