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Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

John DiFool posted:

Just chiming in to say I loving hate webex

it could be worse - you could be using microsoft teams. gently caress teams.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Guinness posted:

so say we all

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

taqueso posted:

The "cool" part is, the EEs at this company mostly just do embedded software. I do approximately 1 week of real EE stuff per year.

So you're saying I'm just signing up to write software with worse tools and a shittier codebase?

Maybe limited storage will curb the worst excesses, lol.

ryanrs fucked around with this message at 22:56 on May 18, 2023

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Hadlock posted:

I think the version we used just now was Google Meet Duo Allo Chat Hangout+ Enterprise (free trial) edition

Got off the phone with their HR person just now he said that they mostly have level 7 and doesn't think a level 5 engineer makes as much as 200k in the bay area. I'm not sure if he's done and "salary modeling" for an engineer before. Imagine their shock when I turn down their offer of $145. I'm about to email them and kill the process right now but I need the interview experience

I was making 250 as a bay area L5 six years ago, for a job that I did an absolutely trash job of negotiating for. Their HR needs some serious fact checking.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

ryanrs posted:

So you're saying I'm just signing up to write software with worse tools and a shittier codebase?

Maybe limited storage will curb the worst excesses, lol.
What part of EE do you want to go into? If you're designing your own antennas and poo poo, you can live a happy life without touching the digital side, but if you're attaching sensor chips to a MCU, most of the time ends up being spent on the embedded software that receives and manages the data. It's a very different beast compared to software, you will sometimes need to probe boards (for HW and SW issues), and depending on the size of your processor, abstraction tends to be much less of a thing.

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

I can write an interrupt routine that uses FreeRTOS queues and task notifications to provide a simple blocking API to higher-level software in the firmware. What is this called, firmware driver development? It feels like OS device driver development, minus the OS stuff.

I'm a little wary of being stuck in a role where I ONLY do firmware, though. Given my extensive SW job history, they will be tempted.

e: re my EE experience, yes much of it involves gluing chips together with I2C. But I can also glue stuff together using op-amps (to an ADC and I2C).

ryanrs fucked around with this message at 05:21 on May 19, 2023

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


Hadlock posted:

0) jitsi
1) google meet
2) zoom (barely ahead of #3)
3) i'd rather die than install and use your lovely software

What kind of programmer starts counting from one? No offer for you.

ryanrs
Jul 12, 2011

Option 0 is always skipping the meeting.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

ryanrs posted:

I can write an interrupt routine that uses FreeRTOS queues and task notifications to provide a simple blocking API to higher-level software in the firmware. What is this called, firmware driver development? It feels like OS device driver development, minus the OS stuff.

I'm a little wary of being stuck in a role where I ONLY do firmware, though. Given my extensive SW job history, they will be tempted.

e: re my EE experience, yes much of it involves gluing chips together with I2C. But I can also glue stuff together using op-amps (to an ADC and I2C).
I think Firmware is a good term for that, but I mostly see embedded software in the job market. Firmware is lower level than embedded software is lower level than software, but firmware can also mean FPGA or chip design (completely different world), and embedded software can go from bare metal 8 bit chips to JavaScript on an odd flavor of Linux on a 400 MHz ARM processor. I think Google has embedded engineers working on their ARM cloud servers.

The job you want does exist and IMO its super valuable to have those skills. I've definitely done what you're looking for at small (<50) person companies, and I think consulting (on your own or with a company) could be a viable path to it as well. In my experience, there's 3-5x as much embedded+ level work than hardware work, so if you were the 2nd EE at a 10 person eng team, you'll probably be mostly HW.

Your project looks interesting and relevant. Now is a good time to search because you won't be competing with recent grads. I'd guess you may have some holes in your basic EE knowledge like amplifier/filter design, power supply design, board schematic and layout.

Your pay will probably drop.

biceps crimes
Apr 12, 2008


gbut posted:

What kind of programmer starts counting from one? No offer for you.

i count from 1 because i compartmentalize all of my job duties and they along with my programming knowledge evaporate as soon as i close my laptop

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

biceps crimes posted:

i count from 1 because i compartmentalize all of my job duties and they along with my programming knowledge evaporate as soon as i close my laptop

I count from one because it's the only natural sequence.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

biceps crimes posted:

i count from 1 because i compartmentalize all of my job duties and they along with my programming knowledge evaporate as soon as i close my laptop

based

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


VB6 still alive and well in tyool 2023

luchadornado
Oct 7, 2004

A boombox is not a toy!

Lua indexes start with 1 and that's a perfectly cromulent language.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

leper khan posted:

I count from one because it's the only natural sequence.
Like I care about a bunch of math from 16th century nerds who didn't even have pointer arithmetic

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003

luchadornado posted:

sql indexes start with 1 and that's a perfectly cromulent language.

AgentF
May 11, 2009

luchadornado posted:

Matlab indexes start with 1 and that's a perfectly cromulent language.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i am doubting the cromulence of all three rather severely, as a matter of fact, having used all three in anger, regrettably

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

CPColin posted:

bob dobbs is zooted

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
The best part of interacting with non software folks is explaining why 1 is the second number or why A corresponds to 0.

Wandering Orange
Sep 8, 2012

All of the Excel lookup functions use 1 for the first row so the non software people, especially the finance people, give 0 fucks.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
^^^ I believe you mean -1 fucks

StumblyWumbly posted:

The best part of interacting with non software folks is explaining why 1 is the second number or why A corresponds to 0.

Um, A corresponds to 65, actually :rolleye:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Matlab is categorically not a perfectly cromulent language. Worst headache I've ever had the misfortune of having to interact with.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

Wandering Orange posted:

All of the Excel lookup functions use 1 for the first row so the non software people, especially the finance people, give 0 fucks.

Doesn't the data start on row 2 since the first row is headers? 2-indexing ftw

Chopstick Dystopia
Jun 16, 2010


lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Matlab is categorically not a perfectly cromulent language. Worst headache I've ever had the misfortune of having to interact with.

honestly so glad I haven't had to think about this poo poo since uni

I run into R folks now and again, but never Matlab thank god

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Chopstick Dystopia posted:

honestly so glad I haven't had to think about this poo poo since uni

I run into R folks now and again, but never Matlab thank god
My thought/hope is that Matlab for casual users is getting demolished by Python, especially if you combine it with Jupyter Lab or something. That just lets you do the same thing, but in a free platform that lets you do more and is more widely supported.

If you're one of the big auto companies and you have full simulink model of 18 different trucks, you're sticking with Matlab, but for the person who just wants to turn some data into a spectrogram, Python

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

StumblyWumbly posted:

The best part of interacting with non software folks is explaining why 1 is the second number or why A corresponds to 0.
January is 0, case closed

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


StumblyWumbly posted:

My thought/hope is that Matlab for casual users is getting demolished by Python, especially if you combine it with Jupyter Lab or something. That just lets you do the same thing, but in a free platform that lets you do more and is more widely supported.

If you're one of the big auto companies and you have full simulink model of 18 different trucks, you're sticking with Matlab, but for the person who just wants to turn some data into a spectrogram, Python

Matlab was the choice of language for the machine learning community back when I was in school but a couple years later NumPy became good enough to replace it and now no one uses Matlab anymore. There's no gold standard free replacement for Simulink yet, but it's probably not too far off. The real locked in userbase are the ones who use the toolkits for filter design and other things that require some pretty specialized programmers.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Vulture Culture posted:

January is 0, case closed

But the first day of January is 1 of course.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Plorkyeran posted:

But the first day of January is 1 of course.

The 0th day is the null terminator for the previous month.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
That reminds me that my boss is always forwarding me security bulletins with the body just saying "fyi" and I always have to make sure to delete them ASAP so I have less of a chance to reply "idc".

The latest one was listed as "no known exploit" because it was something dumb like if I paste a carefully constructed string into my application.properties file, I might run out of memory. Okay, thanks Boss. I'll be sure not to do that dumb thing that I'd have to do on purpose, I guess.

Chopstick Dystopia
Jun 16, 2010


lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

CPColin posted:

That reminds me that my boss is always forwarding me security bulletins with the body just saying "fyi" and I always have to make sure to delete them ASAP so I have less of a chance to reply "idc".

The latest one was listed as "no known exploit" because it was something dumb like if I paste a carefully constructed string into my application.properties file, I might run out of memory. Okay, thanks Boss. I'll be sure not to do that dumb thing that I'd have to do on purpose, I guess.

reminds me of when the CEO emailed me "what are we doing about this?!" with a link to a log4j article

nothing in our stack used java

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
If I remember correctly, for us, the only application that was including a log4j JAR was so old, the bug hadn't even been introduced yet :cool:

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Chopstick Dystopia posted:

reminds me of when the CEO emailed me "what are we doing about this?!" with a link to a log4j article

nothing in our stack used java
The CEO doesn't want to get caught having to play telephone if asked about it by someone else important. My go-to language for something like this:

"We've already completed our risk assessment of this issue, and determined that none of our systems are vulnerable."

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Vulture Culture posted:

The CEO doesn't want to get caught having to play telephone if asked about it by someone else important. My go-to language for something like this:

"We've already completed our risk assessment of this issue, and determined that none of our systems are vulnerable."

I like this phrasing.

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.
Pillbug
Yeah I mean the CEO is a little clueless, but remember they don't know your tech stack at most companies. Vulture Culture is 110% right here, and that response also makes you look like the sort of person a tech-unaware CEO wants in charge of their technical stack.

Like if magic was real tomorrow, and you had to hire a staff of wizards, you probably would send them some poo poo like 'I HEARD THIS RUNE CAN TURN YOU INSIDE OUT???' and you would want them to be in control of the situation and not to be like 'we don't use Bigby's translocation pattern here gosh jim read the arcane scriptures'

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
Dear CEO,

Leave the technical decisions to me and I'll leave the idiot business decisions to you.

Love,
(my boss's name instead)

Sivart13
May 18, 2003
I have neglected to come up with a clever title

Falcon2001 posted:

you probably would send them some poo poo like 'I HEARD THIS RUNE CAN TURN YOU INSIDE OUT???'
the amount of 0days for these new runes is getting out of hand though

somedays I just don't know what the arcane council is thinking. I hear they're using clockwork automatons to draft all their warding incantations these days

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

CPColin posted:

Dear CEO,

Leave the technical decisions to me and I'll leave the idiot business decisions to you.

Love,
(my boss's name instead)

On the other hand, sometimes CEOs read huge tech news, and I would much, MUCH rather them come to me, taking what in a case like this would amount to a few minutes of my time, instead of sounding an alarm among the other executives and causing a big stink that will linger for weeks.

Hell, executives routinely discount the experience they're paying me for, so having them actually seek it out is a notable event.

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LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

A bit of background. I write software for a company whose customers are very averse to updating. Some of our customers are still using versions of our software from over a decade ago. It is not uncommon for us to backport fixes to old release branches to allow them to gain one specific fix without pulling in all the changes inbetween.

Earlier today I messaged the point-of-contact for one of our customers who had recently updated and had been getting false positives ever since that were causing their system to go into an error-handling mode. Since that "update" we've completely overhauled our UI, so I asked if they would like a custom release with just the fix for the false positives. The point-of-contact said nope, they're happy to use the release with the new UI. He replied immediately, so it's obvious he didn't ask them. Oh well, I tried.

This afternoon the same point-of-contact sent out a broadcast email that today was their last day. I just had to laugh. Well played. If the customer is upset with the UI change, it's not the point-of-contacts problem anymore.

LLSix fucked around with this message at 21:28 on May 26, 2023

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