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Vino posted:I am learning that when people say “drop the motorcycle” they don’t mean “oops it fell over while you were dismounting because you did a dumbo” but rather “your rear end were riding it and now both it and your rear end are on the ground” Russian Bear posted:Regarding crashing/falling over, does location matter? I generally say i've fallen over 4 times on my motorcycle, 2 were in a parking lot while practicing drills and such; 2 while making a uturn on roads and messing up bad enough where i just came to a stop basically and laid on the side. Falling over / dropping your bike while doing low speed technical drills in a parking lot I'd file under "who cares" unless it's the same one over and over, in which I case I'd suggest reviewing your approach. Crashing on the street during normal riding warrants more serious reflection, even if it's an aforementioned freak accident. Maybe Strife can share his thoughts on that one. I crashed twice when I first started, in the first ~6 weeks. Once at ~100 miles, another at ~800. The first I basically panicked coming into a corner faster than my comfort level, panicked, and plowed off the road, fell over when I hit the gravel/dirt. The second was basically the same thing. I haven't crashed* since then, but I did have a few more close calls within the first year of riding. I feel I am very unlikely to crash on the street these days, as I am not an aggressive rider, ride well within my comfort zone, have an easy and forgiving bike, and I am overall better equipped /skilled enough to avoid getting into those situations in the first place, and knowing how to deal with it if it happens. *I crashed at the track two weeks ago. I'm not sure if this falls under the "dirt doesn't count" rule. It was definitely preventable (like almost all crashes, as mentioned), but at least the track is a semi controlled environment, where I simply slid off into the dirt and walked away, instead of getting run over by an oncoming car, or wrapping myself around a tree, or flying off a cliff. Russian Bear posted:It's those cage thingies you put your feet in that you may have seen on old bicycles My 2008 bicycle has these 
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May 25, 2023 03:38
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:52 |
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Crashing on a track doesn't count, it's what tracks are for and why you should never track a bike you love
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May 25, 2023 03:49
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OK sounds like consensus is that dropping is when the bike isn't moving. That's fair. Went out for some riding today, I didn't drop it but I did manage to smush my crotch a little bit when i braked too hard coming back into my driveway. Nothing I can't walk off. The parking lot was in use so I just rode around the neighborhood practicing taking turns, braking with hand and foot, remembering to turn off the signal, that sort of thing. I tried the "No foot down full stop for one second" challenge while I was at stop signs and I will tell you what, that seems like it's impossible. The bike starts to tilt over as soon as you get below 5mph. I can do a slow roll and start back up again but I don't see how a full stop for one second is possible. What am I missing?
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May 25, 2023 04:21
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You're missing practice basically Also if you're mashing your crotch when you brake it means you aren't using your legs at all and instead the forces are being put through your noodle arms. Grip the tank with your legs and lock yourself in place when you brake.
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May 25, 2023 04:41
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It's a practice thing. I already knew how to track-stand a bicycle due to using clipless pedals and shoes. Balancing a big bike is the same, tbh. If you've got your legs locked to the tank like Savvy here is saying, you use your entire body to balance the bike. Being connected to the bike is really important though, because otherwise you're just trying to noodle it around with the handlebars and maybe by moving your knees out?
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May 25, 2023 05:20
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YEA YEA I spend the whole ride reminding myself to hug the tank like my life depends on it and the second I pull into my driveway I forget and it's crotchy smushy time OK I'll practice
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May 25, 2023 05:31
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It will become second nature to where you don't have to consciously think about it.* In my opinion, this isn't really about being able to balance for x seconds at a stop, but rather having that level of control of and feedback from the bike, which benefits you everywhere, at every speed. *you'll have to adjust a bit going to a new and unfamiliar bike, but the principle remains the same.
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May 25, 2023 05:36
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Vino posted:The bike starts to tilt over as soon as you get below 5mph. I can do a slow roll and start back up again but I don't see how a full stop for one second is possible. What am I missing? What you're probably missing is something fundamental about bikes - they work completely differently below right about 5mph. Above that speed they're stable (they will stay upright and tend to go straight without any rider input) and you turn them by countersteering and leaning into turns, but when going real slow they become unstable (they will fall over without constant rider input) and you turn them by steering the opposite way - if you want to go right you have to turn to the right, instead of to the left like when countersteering. Also you can't lean the bike into turns or it will fall over. The only thing for it is practice, but there's a few technical pointers that can help. Try lifting your gaze a bit, look straight ahead instead of right in front of you. Try to stay loose and relaxed in your upper body and balance the bike by shifting your hips left to right (at least this is how it feels to me), this way you won't have to saw the handlebars around for balance quite as much, especially if you catch the bike early, if it gets leaning over too far you'll have to give a steering input, often a big one to catch it. You should be able to control the bike in a straight line down to 2mph or so with a few hours of practice. Turning at that speed is trickier, moreso when turning sharply, but for me at least it feels helpful to counter-lean the bike a bit. Crawl speed turns are highly dependent on clutch control since power to the real wheel becomes a primary tool for balance. If falling into a turn, add power. If falling out of a turn, use less power.
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May 25, 2023 06:03
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It helps to drag the rear brake and slip the clutch at the same time, basically using the engine in opposition to the rear brake to keep the bike 'taut' instead of trying to manage everything with the throttle alone
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May 25, 2023 06:09
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Slavvy posted:It helps to drag the rear brake and slip the clutch at the same time, basically using the engine in opposition to the rear brake to keep the bike 'taut' instead of trying to manage everything with the throttle alone I was explicitly not allowed to use this method on the crawl speed part of my licence exam ride for some reason so I had to learn to do it without the brake dragging, but yeah it sure helps. Maybe I should add that it's safest to use the rear brake only at crawl speed. The front brake is OK to use if the steering is straight but if the front wheel is turned it can upset the bike's balance dramatically, and it's real easy to grab way too much brake. Sometimes you have no choice but to use front brake though, like if you need to put your right foot down going downhill.
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May 25, 2023 08:18
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Not that I don't have a bit of work to do on it but I actually feel like I control the bike pretty well at low speeds. When I come to a stop it's left foot down when I stop, left foot back up when I go, generally very little (but not no) waddling involved. I have pretty good balance and I have ridden a lot of bicycles. I'll still practice of course.
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May 25, 2023 08:47
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Bicycle skills are definitely helpful for motorcycles, yeah, since they're fundamentally the same thing, but I find that the slower I go the less the skills translate. I can easily do track stands on my commuter e-bike, for as long as I like if there's a bit of an incline so I can go in reverse. On my motorcycle I can't, not even close. Ten times the weight and the comparatively massive contact patches might have something to do with it I guess. I can't jerk a motorcycle around like I can a bicycle, so I have to catch it earlier when it wants to go. Hell, on an unsuspended bike I can hop the front wheel around for balance when stationary, try that on a motorcycle! On the other hand you can't use thighs against the gas tank to hold on to a bicycle so at least motorcycles have that going for them.
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May 25, 2023 09:20
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The way you describe hopping around on a bicycle makes me think we would be friends
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May 25, 2023 09:40
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Invalido posted:I was explicitly not allowed to use this method on the crawl speed part of my licence exam ride for some reason so I had to learn to do it without the brake dragging, but yeah it sure helps. Interesting. I was explicitely made to drag the rear brake and slip the clutch. There literally is no way you'd be able to do the EU style vehicle control drills without. You want that drive line to be pulling all the time, and it also does stuff to your rear suspension. In neither of the slow speed drills the front brake was used. Crawl speed here is a fairly normal city walking pace. Vino, get someone to walk next to you and keep pace with them for a short stretch. If you can do that, your low speed control's fine. Engine speed a bit above idle, 2-3000rpm depending on the bike. Foot on brake (not your hand!) and balance clutch and throttle in such a way that you don't lug the engine too badly, but you also aren't running at road speed RPMs.
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May 25, 2023 10:03
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LimaBiker posted:There literally is no way you'd be able to do the EU style vehicle control drills without.  You were allowed to go at max 5km/h average, you were allowed to use the brake a few times to slow down to that speed and for the stops (between the double cones) obviously but not drag it constantly or they'd fail you, the goal was to control the speed with clutch and throttle only. I have no idea why the test is designed that way, maybe to really make you demonstrate youv've mastered the clutch I guess?
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May 25, 2023 10:26
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Invalido posted:I was explicitly not allowed to use this method on the crawl speed part of my licence exam lol Invalido posted:I live in the EU (sweden). I knew there were something wrong with the swedes 
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May 25, 2023 10:59
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Xakura posted:I knew there were something wrong with the swedes  This is a tractor, you see. It is driven by a 15-year old with a class 1 moped licence. It weighted down to at least 2 tons with concrete and is electronically nerfed to a top speed of 30 km/h. E: it can also legally pull a trailer of any weight without restriction. All of Sweden's road rules are completely sane and rational, Invalido fucked around with this message at 11:27 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 11:23
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Meanwhile in Germany, 16 year olds can drive this "tricycle" on an A1 class motorcycle license, with up to 20hp of power:  I saw one of them in The Netherlands. I wonder if there actually were 16 year olds in there (in which case they'd be driving with an unvalid license) or whether they were already 18. Imagine having 20hp in a car that weighs double that of a 2cv6 with only 2/3rds of the power. W.r.t. the drills in Sweden - that's clearly a very different setup. The drills are individual parts here. Crawling along with a walking instructor and a slow speed slalom with cones spaced 3m apart are done with a slipping clutch and foot on the brake. Not sure anymore about the figure 8 and stuff. Those were done at a high enough speed so you can actually lean over the bike a good bit, which decreases the turning radius. Doing those without leaning over was very hard, if not impossible, and a fail. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 12:21 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 11:41
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Invalido posted:Stupid Swedish “Tractor” LimaBiker posted:Stupid German “Tricycle” I’ve encountered both of these before and I can’t help but feel like there has to be a middle ground between this kind of dumb bullshit and the USA where a 15 year old can drive a Dodge Demon on their learner’s permit. Has any country managed to find that sweet spot?
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May 25, 2023 17:16
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In nz a 16yo can drive whatever they like provided they have big yellow L signs in the windows and a person with a full license in the passenger seat, and only during daylight hours. In practice this means 16yos can drive whatever they like, whenever they like, however they like provided they never get pulled over.
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May 25, 2023 18:20
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well i got my motorcycle endorsement finally. took the advice here and went with the msf course. sadly it was at a harley dealership and it was harley flavored and the environment was exactly what i expected. i sucked it up for the duration, learned a lot, and did all the annoying nonsense with the gub'ment. will be picking up a little dual sport in the coming weeks. thanks so much for the help, thread!
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May 25, 2023 19:22
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knuthgrush posted:well i got my motorcycle endorsement finally. took the advice here and went with the msf course. sadly it was at a harley dealership and it was harley flavored and the environment was exactly what i expected. i sucked it up for the duration, learned a lot, and did all the annoying nonsense with the gub'ment. will be picking up a little dual sport in the coming weeks. thanks so much for the help, thread! Huzzah! Re: the swedish setup: The mandatory stuff in the order you had to do them were: 1: half day theoretical seminar about dangers and risks, gear and so on. Mandatory attendance only, no kind of exam. 2: half day practical course with a bunch of drills on a closed course. Brake work on asphalt and gravel, taking a corner at too high a speed and failing, sitting in a heavy truck to learn what the driver sees and can't see, comparing braking distance between heavy truck and modern bike, riding a gocart track with a passenger doing right things and passenger doing wrong things and I forget whatever else. The day ended by us doing a slow race back to the parking lot, no feet down allowed, which was fun. Some dude going for an A2 licence crashed twice. I think he still "passed". It was a super hot day and I ended it by pouring sweat out of my boots. 3: computerized theoretical exam with maybe 70 multiple choice questions at the department of transportation. Getting a time slot was difficult so I had to drive for a couple of hours to another city to not wait for months. 4: exam ride day, in my case on a disused airforce runway. If you passed each step you could continue to the next one. they were: -slow speed course (posted above), left or right depending on what you were told. It started by answering technical questions about the bike (I had to talk about chain slack, engine oil and something else I forget), then walking and pushing the bike forwards and backwards keeping it between the lines of the T-shaped thing as a setup for the ride. -high speed course:  pass through the four cones at more than 50 km/h, swerve past the cones either left or right depending on what you were told, maintain speed through slalom, do a high speed u-turn in the box, get back to at least 50 for the return slalom and do a hard brake to stop at the line of four cones. (I had to do this part again since the examiner thought I went a bit too slowly but gave me a second try so I increased speed by 5 and passed) -brake hard to stop from 70 km/h -brake hard to stop from 90 km/h -go on a ride on public roads with the examiner riding behind telling you over radio what to do. About half of the candidates failed on the day I took my riding exam. Invalido fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 19:30
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hogfarts
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May 25, 2023 19:40
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Sagebrush posted:hogfarts I knew 'merkins would find that funny but I couldn't find a better image of the course, also lol. (hög=high, fart=speed, "povet" is a misspelling of "provet"=the test). Also our metro trains announce that you're approaching the slutstation (slut=end) which often leads to giggles from some passengers. Our word for "six" is "sex". It goes on and on.
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May 25, 2023 19:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hE8GUVUWM Fully licensed in California (and probably most of the US) 
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May 25, 2023 19:54
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Invalido posted:I knew 'merkins would find that funny but I couldn't find a better image of the course, also lol. (hög=high, fart=speed, "povet" is a misspelling of "provet"=the test). Also our metro trains announce that you're approaching the slutstation (slut=end) which often leads to giggles from some passengers. Our word for "six" is "sex". It goes on and on. Fart Kontrol
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May 25, 2023 19:58
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moxieman posted:I’ve encountered both of these before and I can’t help but feel like there has to be a middle ground between this kind of dumb bullshit and the USA where a 15 year old can drive a Dodge Demon on their learner’s permit. Has any country managed to find that sweet spot? A good public transportation system and a moped or bicycle. The key is to make cars superfluous to a young person's freedom and autonomy. Where i live, cars are completely unnecessary to kids. In and around the city they go by moped or bicycle, any farther the train. At 18 they've participated in traffic a whole lot already, either on their bicycle or on their moped. For the countries where riding a moped is essentially suicide and trains are merely a suggestion, having a separate license category with a limited mass and limited power would be a good idea on face value. No idea if it would actually reduce fatalities. That's something for a traffic scientist to research.
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May 25, 2023 20:11
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LimaBiker posted:
They do this in Australia and it works somewhat
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May 25, 2023 20:20
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Just put a hold payment on a little Honda X150L. It ain't fancy or high powered but it'll work for the small highways here in my semi-rural area and I'm on dirt roads a lot so that'll be fine. Also it's air cooled and has a carburetor so I'll be able to work on it myself. Pretty stoked for my first bike, even if it's a weenie.
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May 25, 2023 22:00
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That is a superb first bike
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May 25, 2023 23:58
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That’s an extremely good bike. You’ll eventually find it’s better than some bikes that cost orders of magnitude more
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May 26, 2023 00:04
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knuthgrush posted:Just put a hold payment on a little Honda X150L. It ain't fancy or high powered but it'll work for the small highways here in my semi-rural area and I'm on dirt roads a lot so that'll be fine. Also it's air cooled and has a carburetor so I'll be able to work on it myself. Pretty stoked for my first bike, even if it's a weenie. Is this this new one? https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/dual-sport/xr150l I love that Honda is selling a gradient of various cheap 2 wheel things.
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May 26, 2023 02:10
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I wasn't really on board with the navi but I like the xr150l a lot.
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May 26, 2023 03:08
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Am I crazy for wanting to get rid of my mt03 and getting this lil bike. Maybe a klx300 would be better.
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May 26, 2023 04:39
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If you mostly ride on the street and already know how to ride I would not recommend a 150cc 80's dirt bike, just get a drz or something
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May 26, 2023 04:46
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Russian Bear posted:Am I crazy for wanting to get rid of my mt03 and getting this lil bike. Maybe a klx300 would be better. n+1
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May 26, 2023 07:40
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Russian Bear posted:Is this this new one? That's the one! Gonna go pay for it and a skid plate, brush guards, and an accessory socket in a little bit. Not gonna get the saddle and tank bags just yet. Can't drive it home today because my schedule is just hosed but they'll deliver it early next week.
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May 26, 2023 20:36
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Is that bike available on the US market?
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May 26, 2023 20:39
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TotalLossBrain posted:Is that bike available on the US market? The xr150l? I'm in Arkansas and buying it from a Honda dealer so I believe that means yes?
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May 26, 2023 20:43
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:52 |
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Yes, it's "new" for 2023, which is sort of amazing. Or is it recognition of America's third world status?  I like it. I think it would be a nice lil around town bike, especially if you lived somewhere semi rural and had easy access to trials.
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May 26, 2023 22:10
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