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M_Gargantua posted:A boulder is substantially more tough than the sand filled wish.com concrete teeth the Russians have been deploying. Some of them were even hollow if I recall.
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May 26, 2023 15:40
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CommieGIR posted:Some of them were even hollow if I recall. It makes them lighter, easier on the logistics chain.
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May 26, 2023 16:02
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bulletsponge13 posted:I end up doing the same thing with Taffy 3 Man. Leyte was a crazy battle. Kurita was only a couple hours from the transports in the bay without realizing it before deciding to turn around because he thought they had already evacuated. And Halsey’s force was way too far away to help had he decided to keep going. I always wondered what Halsey thought once he learned he fell for Ozawa’s diversion. Knowing that the whole battle could’ve been lost by letting your lust for a carrier battle distract you.
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May 26, 2023 17:20
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The Battle of Samar is one of those things that absolutely deserves a movie or a miniseries (one particular ship per episode) or something.
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May 26, 2023 17:25
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:The Battle of Samar is one of those things that absolutely deserves a movie or a miniseries (one particular ship per episode) or something. It not having one is such a god drat crime.
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May 26, 2023 17:45
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AlternateNu posted:I always wondered what Halsey thought once he learned he fell for Ozawa’s diversion. Knowing that the whole battle could’ve been lost by letting your lust for a carrier battle distract you. The world wonders.
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May 26, 2023 18:09
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poverty goat posted:There's a cool series on Smarter Every Day where he visits a nuclear sub, and one of the episodes goes into detail on damage control Everyone learns DC on a sub because there is no room for actual DC techs like on the skimmers.
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May 26, 2023 18:40
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ded posted:Everyone learns DC on a sub because there is no room for actual DC techs like on the skimmers. Everyone learns DC on surface ships, too. It's just anything larger than a MCM or FFG has more people than a sub, so the skill set isn't as compacted. Hell, ask anyone here about the DCPO program. 
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May 26, 2023 18:53
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:The Battle of Samar is one of those things that absolutely deserves a movie or a miniseries (one particular ship per episode) or something. Monkey Paw closes; Michael Bay finally wraps production of his epic sixty episode romantic war drama series: ''Samar, So Good'' (discretion advised on all the sex scenes). 
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May 26, 2023 18:54
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Hannibal Rex posted:The world wonders. 
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May 26, 2023 18:57
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To be honest, given the nature of the battle. MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSIONS would probably work pretty well
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May 26, 2023 18:58
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:To be honest, given the nature of the battle. MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSIONS would probably work pretty well We can use a LCS for the USS Samuel B. Roberts!!! 
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May 26, 2023 19:04
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Hannibal Rex posted:The world wonders. "The message (and its trailing padding) became infamous, and created some ill feeling, since it appeared to be a harsh criticism by Nimitz of Halsey's decision to pursue the decoy carriers and leave the landings uncovered. 'I was stunned as if I had been struck in the face', Halsey later recalled. 'The paper rattled in my hands, I snatched off my cap, threw it on the deck, and shouted something I am ashamed to remember', letting out an anguished sob. RADM Robert Carney, Halsey's chief of staff (who had argued strongly in favor of pursuing the carriers), witnessed Halsey's emotional outburst and reportedly grabbed him by the shoulders and shook him, shouting, 'Stop it! What the hell's the matter with you? Pull yourself together!' Recognizing his failure, Halsey ordered his fleet south, however the chase north had exhausted the fuel of his light escorts and more time was wasted refueling while Taffy 3 (Task Unit 77.4.3, commanded by Rear Admiral Clifton Sprague) was fighting for its life. Halsey returned to Samar with his two fastest battleships, three light cruisers and eight destroyers, but he arrived too late to have any impact on the battle." 
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May 26, 2023 19:07
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shame on an IGA posted:This reminds me the AF released more angles of that guidance kit that lets JDAM turn boats into bridges drat. Wonder what it'd feel like if you were standing on the deck (not the bit that's cut in half). Wasn't it a thing in WW1 (and probably 2) that they found a big Battleship shell exploding benathe you in the interior of the ship, the shockwaves could propogate in such a way through the ship as to completely gently caress up the feet/lower leg of someone standing on a higher deck, but not necessarily directly above. I'm sure I remember someone going into that in a post on one of the milhist threads.
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May 26, 2023 19:29
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Taffy 3 not only deserves a BoB/The Pacific/Generation Kill type miniseries, it should be taught in all services. It's an example of how speed, suprise, and aggression can win an unwinnable fight. There is no reason Taffy 3 should have won the battle. There was no command to engage; it was lower level initiative and analysis, and executing. I heard somewhere that the Yamato displaced more than the the entirety of Taffy 3, but that sounds incredibly hyperbolic; I know that nothing in the US armament in the fight had much of a chance of penetrating the battleships. Not a Navy guy, though. Sprague examples the idea of "Executing a bad idea now is better than waiting for a better one". Evans and the USS Johnston going balls out into the fight is something that strikes a chord with me as a Grunt.
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May 26, 2023 19:35
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bulletsponge13 posted:Taffy 3 not only deserves a BoB/The Pacific/Generation Kill type miniseries, it should be taught in all services. It's an example of how speed, suprise, and aggression can win an unwinnable fight. There is no reason Taffy 3 should have won the battle. There was no command to engage; it was lower level initiative and analysis, and executing. I heard somewhere that the Yamato displaced more than the the entirety of Taffy 3, but that sounds incredibly hyperbolic; I know that nothing in the US armament in the fight had much of a chance of penetrating the battleships. Not a Navy guy, though. The Yamato displaced ten times the tonnage that each of the six escort carriers did and 30 times what each of the destroyers did so, probably! And I know everyone here has read it but I'm long past enjoying books about war but Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is an exception.
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May 26, 2023 19:40
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Someone did the math: https://www.mathscinotes.com/2021/03/taffy-3-total-displacement-vs-yamato-using-r/
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May 26, 2023 20:04
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bulletsponge13 posted:Taffy 3 not only deserves a BoB/The Pacific/Generation Kill type miniseries, it should be taught in all services. It's an example of how speed, suprise, and aggression can win an unwinnable fight. There is no reason Taffy 3 should have won the battle. There was no command to engage; it was lower level initiative and analysis, and executing. I heard somewhere that the Yamato displaced more than the the entirety of Taffy 3, but that sounds incredibly hyperbolic; I know that nothing in the US armament in the fight had much of a chance of penetrating the battleships. Not a Navy guy, though. It was also a really great showcase of the importance of technology. The American ships had that crazy-rear end analog fire control computer which meant they were landing a lot more rounds on target, but the sheer aggression displayed was the stuff of legend. They fought like lions, and the detail that always stuck with me was the carrier pilots continuing to make attack runs long after their guns ran dry knowing that distracting or disrupting a gun crew would make a real difference. Just incredible stuff. I'm reminded a little of a passage in the Band of Brothers book, when soon after taking a town they went on really aggressive combat patrols. Which, in turn, stopped a counterattack cold because the German logic was "if this is how many they have out in the field, there must be a whole lot more in town" not knowing it was almost the whole force.
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May 26, 2023 20:06
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Stultus Maximus posted:The Yamato displaced ten times the tonnage that each of the six escort carriers did and 30 times what each of the destroyers did so, probably! Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is a must read.
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May 26, 2023 20:07
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:They fought like lions, and the detail that always stuck with me was the carrier pilots continuing to make attack runs long after their guns ran dry knowing that distracting or disrupting a gun crew would make a real difference. Just incredible stuff. I feel like it's also worth noting that a lot of these people weren't career military, they were civilians, lawyers and stuff, that had become part of the naval reserve well before the war started and then got called in to do the do military service when the war heated up, and they still displayed this kind of bravery, even far from home.
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May 26, 2023 20:09
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I'd say its the finest moment of the USN.
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May 26, 2023 20:19
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Someone did the math: I can recommend the Drachinifel vid he references in this, so very good.
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May 26, 2023 20:24
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The Historian friend that turned me onto the battle, said that there is some talk and theories that Evans, in particular, wanted retribution for losses at Iron Bottom, and took the lessons to heart. Not just him, but he was especially vocal about taking the fight to the Japanese at every opportunity.
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May 26, 2023 20:25
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M_Gargantua posted:Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is a must read.  I just went through it for the third time on a flight last week. Losing Hornfischer sucks. 
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May 26, 2023 20:43
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I'd say its the finest moment of the USN. It's one of the finest moments of any armed force, ever. It exceeded the accomplishment of the Spartans at Thermopylae.
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May 26, 2023 23:38
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That battle the FFL fought has gotta be up there too. Where like 13 dudes held off an army
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May 26, 2023 23:56
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:That battle the FFL fought has gotta be up there too. Where like 13 dudes held off an army I believe you are referring to the Battle of Camerone, now a High Holy Holiday in the Legion.
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May 27, 2023 00:10
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A.o.D. posted:It's one of the finest moments of any armed force, ever. It exceeded the accomplishment of the Spartans at Thermopylae. Sure did, Taffy 3 won and held the field.
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May 27, 2023 00:14
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incidentally thank you for screenshotting tweets you post in case they disappear, it is appreciated
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May 27, 2023 00:19
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mllaneza posted:Sure did, Taffy 3 won and held the field. Yeah the multicultural and heterodox Persian army used tactics of place to put those laconic slaver fucks in the ground
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May 27, 2023 00:21
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It’s a little overplayed since the transports were mostly empty by the time Samar happened, there weren’t that many left—A Japanese scout plane counted 35. Kurita knew that they would be fleeing the gulf at flank speed and he didn’t have the means to catch them or the fleeing TF38. And most importantly, Kurita wanted to fight the warships. The whole point was for the Navy to commit glorious seppeku, but killing a bunch of empty transports and then getting annihilated by a retaliatory air strike wasn’t glorious. He would have been much happier running into the battleship force and going down swinging. As it was he steamed around looking for them, did nothing but lose more ships to air strikes, and had to slink home in sadness.
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May 27, 2023 00:22
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I'm shamefully ignorant of many aspects of the Pacific side of WWII, so the Battle of Samar was new to me. Even just reading the Wikipedia page is a barnstormer, Taffy 3 were loving hardcore. Thank you for educating me on this, and yeah why there isn't a movie on this is baffling because I'm giddy just reading a Wiki summary.
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May 27, 2023 00:30
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Vengarr posted:And most importantly, Kurita wanted to fight the warships. The whole point was for the Navy to commit glorious seppeku, but killing a bunch of empty transports and then getting annihilated by a retaliatory air strike wasn’t glorious. He would have been much happier running into the battleship force and going down swinging. As it was he steamed around looking for them, did nothing but lose more ships to air strikes, and had to slink home in sadness. Admiral Kurita would disagree with you about that. quote:Q. What training was emphasized at LINGGA? Throwing away ships to commit glorious seppuku, as you somewhat distastefully put it, didn't happen until later. McNally fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 00:32
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bulletsponge13 posted:I believe you are referring to the Battle of Camerone, now a High Holy Holiday in the Legion. Yeah that one. Crazy-rear end story. Was that the one where the survivors were let go out of respect?
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May 27, 2023 00:37
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Something I've never seen answered one way or the other is if Halsey was ever made aware during his lifetime that the "The world wonders" phrase was meaningless padding and not actually an insult to him? It looks like that fact was mentioned in a 1960 book edited by Nimitz but Halsey died in 1959. Did they clear things up during the war or shortly after or did he die thinking Nimitz roasted him?
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May 27, 2023 00:43
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my kinda ape posted:Something I've never seen answered one way or the other is if Halsey was ever made aware during his lifetime that the "The world wonders" phrase was meaningless padding and not actually an insult to him? It looks like that fact was mentioned in a 1960 book edited by Nimitz but Halsey died in 1959. Did they clear things up during the war or shortly after or did he die thinking Nimitz roasted him? According to the preface of The Great Sea War, the book in question, Halsey had been shown early drafts and was credited as having contributed to it prior to his death.
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May 27, 2023 00:48
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McNally posted:Admiral Kurita would disagree with you about that. And even then, it usually wasn't the original option. For another example, the IJN originally planned to not contribute much to the battle of Okinawa, and save resources for the defense of their home islands. But in the meeting with the emperor, the IJA pointed out that they were planning on suicide charges to defend the eternal land of Japan*, and the IJN wasn't doing anything. So rather than admit that they were doing less than their army rivals because it was a smarter strategy, they sent all their remaining surface combatants, including the battleship Yamato, out on a suicide charge to Okinawa, called Operation Ten-Go. * Imperial Japan ideologically claimed that Okinawa was part of Japan and not a colony, the same way the French empire claimed Algeria was a part of France and not a colony.
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May 27, 2023 00:48
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Yeah that one. Crazy-rear end story. Was that the one where the survivors were let go out of respect? The surviving men, 5 were surrounded by over 400. One man, a Private, lay bleeding rom the numerous musket balls he took from Mexican fire protecting his LT. When ordered to surrender, the LT refused to surrender his arms, and demanded medical attention for his dying man. The enemy commander, striken with respect, allows it. Captain Danjou, the commander of the FFL contigent at the start, was a character of the Legion. He lost his hand in Crimea, and had his hand replaced with a hand carved wooden hand so he could still fight. At the height of the multi-day seige, it's estimated that over 10k rounds were being fired at the hacienda where the Legion took refuge. During that time, Captain Danjou was witnessed walking along the wall, urging his men, and taunting his enemies. His hand was recovered, and is considered a relic; during the anniversary of the battle, the hand is shipped unit to unit for festivities every April 15th (I think it's the 15th, might be the 20) It's one of the greatest defeats the Legion ever suffered, and was a part of the failed Mexican Invasion of Napoleon III. It's also an event that spawned a stanza in their Code of Honor- "In battle, you act without passion and without hatred, you respect defeated enemies, you never abandon your dead, your wounded or your weapons." It's one of the most amazing last stands and examples of honor among enemies I've ever read. (All that is from memory, so finer details are hazy)
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May 27, 2023 00:52
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my kinda ape posted:Something I've never seen answered one way or the other is if Halsey was ever made aware during his lifetime that the "The world wonders" phrase was meaningless padding and not actually an insult to him? It looks like that fact was mentioned in a 1960 book edited by Nimitz but Halsey died in 1959. Did they clear things up during the war or shortly after or did he die thinking Nimitz roasted him? I imagine he realized it or learned after the fact. All the other ships which received the message properly removed the padding phrase from the printed type. His flag ship was the only one that didn't because his radio officer though it relevant since it's a natural flow from the rest of the message.
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May 27, 2023 00:55
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speaking of ships, bunch of suspicious stuff going on wrt that russian intel ship that was hit. ru mod keeps releasing footage of it, but it keeps ending up being old footage, undated footage, flipped to conceal which side of the ship is being shown and so on. public denials that anything was damaged continue, but also there still have been zero pictures released of the port side of the ship. even russian nationalists seems skeptical.
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May 27, 2023 00:56
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