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Without getting into  what is the function of that ship in this war? My only experience with Russian AGI types was over in the Pacific when they tailed us around the Sea of Japan (while the Japanese tailed them and the Koreans tailed them and...). What does an AGI contribute from 200nm away from the coast when the adversary doesn't actually have a Navy?
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May 27, 2023 01:05
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 It's the Battle off Samar, not the Battle of Samar.
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May 27, 2023 01:07
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mllaneza posted:Sure did, Taffy 3 won and held the field. That was my exact thinking. Vengarr posted:It’s a little overplayed since the transports were mostly empty by the time Samar happened, there weren’t that many left—A Japanese scout plane counted 35. Kurita knew that they would be fleeing the gulf at flank speed and he didn’t have the means to catch them or the fleeing TF38. And most importantly, Kurita wanted to fight the warships. The whole point was for the Navy to commit glorious seppeku, but killing a bunch of empty transports and then getting annihilated by a retaliatory air strike wasn’t glorious. He would have been much happier running into the battleship force and going down swinging. As it was he steamed around looking for them, did nothing but lose more ships to air strikes, and had to slink home in sadness. I thought the Japanese task force was prepared to conduct shore bombardments of the landing forces. While that wouldn't have prevented the landings, it could have devastated the American forces that wouldn't have had time to dig in, and destroyed a lot of supplies and hardware needed for the landings, making repelling the invasion a more feasible prospect for the defenders. Am I wrong about that?
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May 27, 2023 01:43
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:They fought like lions, and the detail that always stuck with me was the carrier pilots continuing to make attack runs long after their guns ran dry knowing that distracting or disrupting a gun crew would make a real difference. Just incredible stuff. That’s a good detail, I also like how one of the destroyers had an ice cream maker on board (I forgot why as they were reserved for bigger ships, I think they might have pulled strings to get it), and this meant they could produce very valuable trade items when bartering with other ships.
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May 27, 2023 01:44
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A.o.D. posted:That was my exact thinking. No, you're right. The landing forces were basically naked on the beach during that time.
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May 27, 2023 01:48
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I think they're confusing the Philippines and Okinawa
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May 27, 2023 02:03
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Hyrax Attack! posted:That’s a good detail, I also like how one of the destroyers had an ice cream maker on board (I forgot why as they were reserved for bigger ships, I think they might have pulled strings to get it), and this meant they could produce very valuable trade items when bartering with other ships. I can't place my source, but I have heard that that one was simply stolen by the crew right before departing port.
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May 27, 2023 02:07
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McNally posted:Admiral Kurita would disagree with you about that. Prior to the battle the army made a serious argument that the operation was not worth the fuel needed to get the ships to sea, and only relented when they were told explicitly that the goal was to die with honor. Unless Ian Toll’s account was completely fabricated, that would seem definitive. A.o.D. posted:That was my exact thinking. I think that was a tertiary goal at best, they certainly weren’t loaded up with the HE shells you would need for a serious bombardment. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 02:18 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 02:09
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Stultus Maximus posted:Without getting into Intel ships generally are there to suck up every bit of EM in the area. Every radio & radar wave that it can. With a bunch of antennas its possible to get an absolute ton of information.
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May 27, 2023 02:30
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ded posted:Intel ships generally are there to suck up every bit of EM in the area. Every radio & radar wave that it can. With a bunch of antennas its possible to get an absolute ton of information. I'm pretty sure that's wrong. If I remember right, they rushed the straight prepared for a fight with cruisers and capital ships, which is why initially they were firing AP shells that weren't having their full effect against the American destroyers. They definitely had HE, because once the guns switched over, the hits had much greater effect.
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May 27, 2023 02:40
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A.o.D. posted:I'm pretty sure that's wrong. If I remember right, they rushed the straight prepared for a fight with cruisers and capital ships, which is why initially they were firing AP shells that weren't having their full effect against the American destroyers. They definitely had HE, because once the guns switched over, the hits had much greater effect. yup, they were getting through and throughs, which while damaging were nowhere near as devastating as an internal explosion would be was it samar that had the insanely lucky single bomb kill on a japanese capital ship too?
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May 27, 2023 02:42
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Stultus Maximus posted:Without getting into It's been mentioned in other threads by other people - it's a good bet that this intel ship is being used to monitor what the Ukrainians are doing anti-air and air force wise, as well as monitoring how the Ukrainians react to Russian Air Force/cruise missile attacks.
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May 27, 2023 02:50
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A.o.D. posted:I'm pretty sure that's wrong. If I remember right, they rushed the straight prepared for a fight with cruisers and capital ships, which is why initially they were firing AP shells that weren't having their full effect against the American destroyers. They definitely had HE, because once the guns switched over, the hits had much greater effect. 
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May 27, 2023 03:17
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Cool album, by the way. Those Xians make me nervous.
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May 27, 2023 03:44
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:yup, they were getting through and throughs, which while damaging were nowhere near as devastating as an internal explosion would be Somebody got a hit on, iirc, the Chikuma's torpedoes, which caused a massive secondary explosion and RIP heavy cruiser. Originally it was supposed to be one of the CVEs that got the hit, but later scholarship says no. edit Chōkai' was the torpedo hit by gunfire. Suzuya also had a secondary explosion of torpedoes after a near miss from a bomb. Chikuma was just torpedoed repeatedly by Avengers. I make that about 44,000 tons worth of heavy cruisers sunk by 60,000 tons of CVEs, DDs, and DDes. A truly amazing loss ratio in Taffy 3's favor. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 03:51
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mllaneza posted:Somebody got a hit on, iirc, the Chikuma's torpedoes, which caused a massive secondary explosion and RIP heavy cruiser. Originally it was supposed to be one of the CVEs that got the hit, but later scholarship says no. I think the book describes a lucky bomb down the funnel, but the long and short of it was that a ship went boom for whatever reason
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May 27, 2023 03:54
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I think the book describes a lucky bomb down the funnel, but the long and short of it was that a ship went boom for whatever reason Two of them in just this battle! Another CA was lost at Midway to torpedoes detonating on board after damage.
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May 27, 2023 03:58
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I have it on pretty good authority that your conclusions were all wrong, Ryan. Halsey acted stupidly
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May 27, 2023 03:59
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Halsey was wrong
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May 27, 2023 04:01
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Vengarr posted:Prior to the battle the army made a serious argument that the operation was not worth the fuel needed to get the ships to sea, and only relented when they were told explicitly that the goal was to die with honor. Unless Ian Toll’s account was completely fabricated, that would seem definitive. You're misremembering. It wasn't the explicit goal of the operation else that would have been in Kurita's orders. The IJN definitely felt it was infinitely better to go down fighting than to end the war ignominiously in port and definitely used that as an argument to get the army to agree to the plan but per Toll, the operation's "unstated purpose (emphasis mine) was to ensure that the Japanese fleet put up one last good fight before the war came to an end." If the explicit goal was to sink at Leyte then why carry enough fuel to withdraw? That fuel, as the army pointed out, would have better use elsewhere.
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May 27, 2023 04:16
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Pikehead posted:It's been mentioned in other threads by other people - it's a good bet that this intel ship is being used to monitor what the Ukrainians are doing anti-air and air force wise, as well as monitoring how the Ukrainians react to Russian Air Force/cruise missile attacks. There's also a bunch of US/NATO stuff flying over the black sea to watch things from outside Ukrainian and Russian airspace.
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May 27, 2023 04:43
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mllaneza posted:Two of them in just this battle! Another CA was lost at Midway to torpedoes detonating on board after damage. A dive bomber at midway got a bomb into the hangar bay of a carrier too, to great effect.
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May 27, 2023 05:19
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https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1662352338894323713 New GEN Zaluzhny dropped, telling the AFU it is time to take back what is theirs.
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May 27, 2023 08:41
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As the commentator follows up, the difference between Ukrainian propaganda and Russian propaganda speaks worlds.
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May 27, 2023 10:15
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orange juche posted:https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1662352338894323713 Almost entirely Western weapons and weapon systems shown in that video.
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May 27, 2023 11:41
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orange juche posted:https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1662352338894323713 The interesting thing about that video is that it's the first one I've seen from ukraine that is 1) shot and filmed like a western commercial 2) not in english and clearly aimed at the Ukrainian military itself. This is intended as a St. Crispin's Day type thing. Alchenar posted:As the commentator follows up, the difference between Ukrainian propaganda and Russian propaganda speaks worlds. The Ukrainians have a lot more to work with.
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May 27, 2023 12:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The interesting thing about that video is that it's the first one I've seen from ukraine that is Saw it and immediately thought of the Vikings tv series for some reason, gave off big vibes.  
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May 27, 2023 12:23
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They have come a long way from this: https://youtu.be/tJKFNPGS_XM
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May 27, 2023 12:46
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Mzuri posted:They have come a long way from this: I mean the subtitles are straight made up but its a big difference in tone
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May 27, 2023 13:04
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Mzuri posted:They have come a long way from this: I mean they still produced one of the best army recruitment videos ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOCbW1hc6Ng e: 4 years between them! Alchenar fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 13:14
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Alchenar posted:
drat that first one looks thirty years old
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May 27, 2023 13:27
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Snowy posted:drat that first one looks thirty years old Big difference is 2014 happened. Getting invaded changes your army from a joke into something that is defending your way of life.
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May 27, 2023 13:35
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A.o.D. posted:I'm pretty sure that's wrong. If I remember right, they rushed the straight prepared for a fight with cruisers and capital ships, which is why initially they were firing AP shells that weren't having their full effect against the American destroyers. They definitely had HE, because once the guns switched over, the hits had much greater effect. Kurita is pretty clear that his mission was to engage the transports and then withdraw. Which means penetrating the transports screening force and potentially dealing with any bombardment force of out of date warships. So driving in with AP and then planning to switch to HE is entirely appropriate. Having HE on hand is also not equivalent to being loaded with HE for a bombardment mission where you carry little or no AP and even often carry so much HE that it’s overflowing the magazine into deck spaces. Edit: quote:Halsey acted stupidly Seems apt. Halsey knew that on the day before aircraft and subs had engaged two different strike groups of capital ships heading for two different straits right at the landing force and he decides to hair off hundreds of miles against a carrier fleet? I get not wanting to get caught in a trap but he had a massive force and took all of it off with him knowing poo poo was incoming. He could have screened the landing force from much closer to the north, especially once he knew the Surigao strait force had been rebuffed. Murgos fucked around with this message at 14:11 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 14:03
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Halsey acted foolishly, Ryan.
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May 27, 2023 15:13
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He’s been right and wrong about stuff before, but his main wheelhouse is naval news and tactics. He suspects the fuzing/timing on the unmanned boat bombs isn’t very effective and these attacks are ending in little damage. https://twitter.com/covertshores/status/1662377165134897152?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ
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May 27, 2023 15:47
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FrozenVent posted:Halsey acted foolishly, Ryan. And on this page, even
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May 27, 2023 16:42
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https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1662174358217867268 I realize it's kind of old hat by this point, but some of these Russian media fantasies are just beyond comedy.
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May 27, 2023 17:00
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Scaring Americans turns out poorly for all involved, generally speaking.
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May 27, 2023 17:47
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LRADIKAL posted:Scaring Americans turns out poorly for all involved, generally speaking. We are easily startled and heavily armed.
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May 27, 2023 18:38
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PurpleXVI posted:https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1662174358217867268 Pearl Harbor worked exactly as planned for Japan. Totally deterred the isolationist US from not stomping their face in to the point of fundamentally changing their national identity
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May 27, 2023 18:45
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