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What a cop out. Snout would have been a perfectly serviceable guide to both the changed world AND the dream realm. Upon reflection, it's really really clear that Mookie changed his mind partway through, as the plot was hinting it would go to the human lands (Callan, I think?) but instead swerved to more orc stuff and then back to Mongreltown. And he STILL doesn't really have any ideas for the dream realm, it's just a bunch of meaningless "trippy" imagery. I am kind of interested to see how this ends, though, if only to see just how many loose plot threads he just straight up ignores.
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May 30, 2023 14:49
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Snout is such a very strange power fantasy for Mookie.
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May 30, 2023 14:53
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He is clearly living off of nostalgia and the good old days so my guess is he'll bring Dominic back to try and recreate all that
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May 30, 2023 14:57
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Dominic Deegan is the Mookie Prime. I am like 99.99% certain that there is no way this ends without him showing up, even if just in the background smiling sagely at our special good boy.
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May 30, 2023 15:06
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Oh god, he'll be pulling the face everybody pulls at Snout, won't he? The squinty eyed, dreamy face that I GUESS is supposed to be endearment or adoration, but it just looks creepily like everybody wants to gently caress him? Either that or he'll be doing his usual smug twat smirk.
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May 30, 2023 15:14
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Farewell, mysterious swamp bee-snake monster from forever ago - you were my unironic favourite part of this webcomic 
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May 30, 2023 15:15
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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May 30, 2023 15:37
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Callan, Maltak and the Desert to Die are the three main places a 200 years later sequel comic should have covered and I feel Maltak got barely a fraction of the coverage it needed.
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May 30, 2023 16:05
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Looking forward to Mookie's next protagonist, a blind person... with a powerful imagination! That way he can draw the comic as normal and any inconsistencies can be hand-waved as the protagonist changing his mind.
Vonnie fucked around with this message at 16:17 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 16:11
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quote:Snout is a joy for me. I love everything about him. But forcing a character into a role not meant for them only does them an injustice. I had an idea for him when The Legacy started, but his path turned out much different than what I had originally envisioned. That’s the beauty of the creative process, and so is learning to make changes as they come. It will soon be time for a change around here. i mean... at least he admits they're a bad fit? i doubt you'd ever get him to admit it was a bad idea from step zero so that will have to do it will never understand what he likes about the hooplehead dogman though (aside from snout being a mookie), even though i understand it all individually
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May 30, 2023 17:14
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But that's the thing, Snout is NOT a bad fit for the original idea. An outsider hermit exploring the rest of the world is a perfectly good foil to experience the world 200 years later. Mookie's change in focus had nothing to do with the character and everything to do with him running out of ideas and coming up with a totally different plot idea partway in. Which actually made the character LESS interesting - instead of being someone inexperienced in the world who's genuinely curious to explore, he's some kind of preordained chosen dream sage that is inexplicably super important to this nebulous quest, which is boring as hell. All of that is setting aside Snout's whole deaf thing, which could have been an interesting twist given a better author, but in practice only served to distract from the storytelling. It doesn't matter which storyline Mookie stuck with, Snout being deaf was a bad idea.
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May 30, 2023 17:21
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Ok, here's a challenge for everyone. What good ideas were found in this webcomic? Can we point to one? And no, it coming to an end doesn't count.
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May 30, 2023 17:26
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Rotten Red Rod posted:But that's the thing, Snout is NOT a bad fit for the original idea. An outsider hermit exploring the rest of the world is a perfectly good foil to experience the world 200 years later. Mookie's change in focus had nothing to do with the character and everything to do with him running out of ideas and coming up with a totally different plot idea partway in. Which actually made the character LESS interesting - instead of being someone inexperienced in the world who's genuinely curious to explore, he's some kind of preordained chosen dream sage that is inexplicably super important to this nebulous quest, which is boring as hell. snout was a TERRIBLE fit for the original idea BECAUSE he was deaf- exploring how a world changed is vastly loving harder if you're a terrible storyteller and can't 'show not tell,' and even better authors would likely struggle with it because you'd need to be very good at nonverbal communication to get an entire comic run out of it instead of an amusing sidestory. worse, despite how much loving around there is in the Wild Edge in OG DD, we never really knew anything about it other than it's wackyland, so none of us can really say how much the world changed- and the for the cities we've visited outside of that, it's all just... it may as well just be a different comic with some legacy trappings. like how final fantasy mainline games share proper nouns but their importance changes you can't set aside snout's deafness when it's so integral in what makes legacy terrible, even though it's not the fault of disability
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May 30, 2023 17:37
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Samovar posted:Ok, here's a challenge for everyone. What good ideas were found in this webcomic? Can we point to one? The existence of plant people and their clashes with the plant-people-eating orc supremacists teased an interesting conflict, but we only see one plant person who basically just rehashes Groot's rebirth storyline, and we NEVER meet an active member of the orc supremacists. The plant necromancy stuff almost threatened to go somewhere but then fizzled out, never going beyond "has something to do with dreams IDK". The Ink Witch coven conflict could be an interesting story, but like the others above, it's increasingly clear Mookie had no ideas past what we've already seen. And I don't hate Mongreltown as a concept, honestly. Mookie's depiction of it is pretty barren creatively, but it could be a fun setting if done right. ... And that's about it. The main cast sucks and has forced chemistry, the wild edge is lame, the library stuff and obsession with books is empty, both orc lands they visit are boring, the villains are one-note, and the thing that's supposed to be the central pillar of the plot, the dream realm, is inch-deep and holds no mysteries. There's just nothing here. Eight-Six posted:snout was a TERRIBLE fit for the original idea BECAUSE he was deaf- exploring how a world changed is vastly loving harder if you're a terrible storyteller and can't 'show not tell,' and even better authors would likely struggle with it because you'd need to be very good at nonverbal communication to get an entire comic run out of it instead of an amusing sidestory. worse, despite how much loving around there is in the Wild Edge in OG DD, we never really knew anything about it other than it's wackyland, so none of us can really say how much the world changed- and the for the cities we've visited outside of that, it's all just... it may as well just be a different comic with some legacy trappings. like how final fantasy mainline games share proper nouns but their importance changes That's my point, Snout being deaf make him a terrible protagonist for ANY story Mookie would want to write. I was just evaluating Snout as character ASIDE from his deafness, which is what the blog post focused on. It undoubtedly made this a worse story, but there's no reason a non-deaf Snoutlike character couldn't have been the protagonist of a plot focusing on revisiting the world. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 17:41 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 17:37
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snout deserves no analysis other than the weight of him in your hand as you size up for a long-distance 3 into the traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash
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May 30, 2023 17:40
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Eight-Six posted:snout deserves no analysis other than the weight of him in your hand as you size up for a long-distance 3 into the traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash I don't agree, examining Snout as a cipher for Mookie is FASCINATING. He gave the guy his own chest hair for fucks' sake.
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May 30, 2023 17:42
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Samovar posted:Ok, here's a challenge for everyone. What good ideas were found in this webcomic? Can we point to one? All of magic for the entire world was apparently changed by the actions of a single seer, possibly with the aid of his students, using methods that aren't publicly known. If all magic can be changed once, can it be changed again with different goals? Can it be changed for subsets? My nation? My organization? Just me?
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May 30, 2023 17:48
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maltesh posted:All of magic for the entire world was apparently changed by the actions of a single seer, possibly with the aid of his students, using methods that aren't publicly known. What I find very funny about this is there's a very good chance this mystery is entirely explained in the post-ending Patreon comics Mookie has been doing for a while.
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May 30, 2023 17:52
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Cloacamazing! posted:You think we're getting out of this without Dominic showing up to hug Snout and tell him what a special boy he is? Really? What I want and what I think are going to happen are two different things. Anyone think we're gonna see Dominic's hog?
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May 30, 2023 18:08
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fizzy posted:Snout is such a very strange power fantasy for Mookie. I don't think it's really that odd. A huge portion of what makes these comics so off-putting is that Mookie has about the same sense of morality as a kindergartener (he actually reminds me a lot of Piers Anthony in that sense, although thankfully he doesn't set off the same Pedophile Warning Alarms). His power fantasy is a world where good always triumphs over evil, in fact, where good easily triumphs over evil without having to work very hard or make difficult choices, and is allowed to be smug about it. Violence is very bad unless you're doing it to evil people, in which case it's good and you're also allowed to be smug. Snout is a power fantasy because he succeeds entirely because he's "pure-hearted", and by virtue of the success this brings him is allowed to have other informed traits like being "curious" and "a sex machine" even if it's really hard to find evidence of these things existing.
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May 30, 2023 18:33
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rudecyrus posted:CHAPTER 28: B.Y.O.B. (cont.) I’m late with this observation so I apologize, but… The rock club Mookie put here, “Cee-Jay Bee-Jays,” is likely a take on real world famous rock venue CBGB’s. (Pronounced “See Bee Gee Bees.”) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBGB It’s a very important place in the history of punk rock, new wave, and hardcore. It helped break The Ramones, Blonde, and a lot of other such bands in the 80s. Mookie must at least have a passing knowledge of the club’s importance, but I find it intriguing that he would (apparently) criticize one of the most important historical venues for punk rock as being too emo or glam. Then again, if this entire arc was just a reaction to Greenday, maybe that explains that.
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May 30, 2023 18:37
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Honestly, Kaianda would have made a better main character. Would have had a similar journey to Snout--exploring the world--with the added mystery of trying to find out who killed her and who she was before being resurrected. Deaf protagonist would have only worked if the author knew what they were doing and Mookie just doesnt.
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May 30, 2023 18:39
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Samovar posted:Ok, here's a challenge for everyone. What good ideas were found in this webcomic? Can we point to one? That dumb gently caress dude shooting wad inside that evil hag in the swamp
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May 30, 2023 18:44
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Samovar posted:Ok, here's a challenge for everyone. What good ideas were found in this webcomic? Can we point to one? Honestly, I think a lot of the basic concepts in the comic are ripe with potential, Rotten Red Rod hits a bunch of them while also explaining why they end up falling completely flat which is ultimately the problem: while the concepts are sound enough, the actual implementation is atrociously bad. Somebody could take these ideas and make a fascinating, compelling story, but that would requiring really thinking through things and having even the barest idea of a plan which is where Mookie falls short.
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May 30, 2023 19:50
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What’s incredible about Legacy is that it does more or less nothing to actually build on nostalgia for Deeganworld or interest in it. Probably because Deeganworld lacks any sort of interesting institutions or qualities! But “wordless voyage through strange and interesting landscapes of a world you almost recognize, so that readers have to guess at how the world has changed” is a very strong sequel comic idea, and would be more so if Snout took these things for granted while we the readers could go “wait is this Callan? Is this Maltak? Wha happened/oooh that’s what happened” However: all of this requires visually recognizable places, characters, and events. So it was doomed to failure.
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May 30, 2023 20:12
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Spookyelectric posted:I’m late with this observation so I apologize, but… As best as I can recall from Mookie's blog posts on OG Deegan, his Take That! against bands with (((men who wear makeup))) was specifically against 80s hair metal like "Poison" and not contemporary brands like "green day." If he knows what CBGB is at all, I doubt he knows the finer detail of the club. Rand Brittain posted:I don't think it's really that odd. A huge portion of what makes these comics so off-putting is that Mookie has about the same sense of morality as a kindergartener (he actually reminds me a lot of Piers Anthony in that sense, although thankfully he doesn't set off the same Pedophile Warning Alarms). His power fantasy is a world where good always triumphs over evil, in fact, where good easily triumphs over evil without having to work very hard or make difficult choices, and is allowed to be smug about it. Violence is very bad unless you're doing it to evil people, in which case it's good and you're also allowed to be smug. He 100% reminds me of Anthony as well. GreenMetalSun posted:What I want and what I think are going to happen are two different things. Don't be so clothes-minded. I think we'll see an inexplicably old version of Dominic as a force ghost in Snout's vision where he delivers exposition and then is never heard from again.
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May 30, 2023 20:12
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Joe Slowboat posted:What’s incredible about Legacy is that it does more or less nothing to actually build on nostalgia for Deeganworld or interest in it. Dark Souls 3 is a decent example of this kind of thing
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May 30, 2023 20:17
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You know Mookie would just spell all the changes out in text, he'd never trust readers to pick up on the subtlety of the changes. Wasn't he going to do a dwarves comic after this? Did that idea get dropped or is he going to stick a round peg in a square hole again?
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May 30, 2023 20:34
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Rotten Red Rod posted:You know Mookie would just spell all the changes out in text, he'd never trust readers to pick up on the subtlety of the changes. I hope not. His previous attempts at NSFW stuff has been bad enough!
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May 30, 2023 20:44
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Rotten Red Rod posted:You know Mookie would just spell all the changes out in text, he'd never trust readers to pick up on the subtlety of the changes. I think the last time he threatened us with a new comic, he said the dwarves would be patreon only. Has that changed?
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May 30, 2023 20:52
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Rotten Red Rod posted:You know Mookie would just spell all the changes out in text, he'd never trust readers to pick up on the subtlety of the changes. dwarf fortress had just come out when he was taking about the stout dwarves of kazwhatever and he isn't playing it anymore right now so he isn't interest in stout dwarves anymore, I'm guessing
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May 30, 2023 20:59
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Invisible Clergy posted:I think the last time he threatened us with a new comic, he said the dwarves would be patreon only. Has that changed? He said he would be workshopping it on his Patreon until it's ready, which would be after this comic ends. At this point I'm assuming he's lost interest in that idea, as always.
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May 30, 2023 21:00
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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May 30, 2023 21:06
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super sweet best pal posted:Callan, Maltak and the Desert to Die are the three main places a 200 years later sequel comic should have covered and I feel Maltak got barely a fraction of the coverage it needed.
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May 30, 2023 22:14
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Samovar posted:Ok, here's a challenge for everyone. What good ideas were found in this webcomic? Can we point to one? Idiota and Arudak started off with a decent enough adversarial dynamic. It was resolved too quickly in order to demonstrate how Snout is able to bring people together with the ~power of friendship~ but there were moments where it felt like Snout was discovering things and questioning assumptions and things he'd learned through interacting with them in order. Having your naïve, fresh to the world protagonist be faced with that kind of thing, forced to sort out a case of equally legitimate grievances, makes for a good setup. Magic being "gentler"/ink magic are also things that could have worked a lot better than they did. It ended up undercut with the ink ship being able to blow up Snout's house and then not being explored too much after, but I don't mind it. Hell aside from the ink ship its execution isn't even that bad, just inoffensive and overly reserved. That goes more with Idiota's sidelining post-Mongreltown 1 if anything, and the resulting dropping of any plot that is actually relevant to her. Even Redactor doesn't care about her once she figures out Snout is the designated chosen one. I didn't care much about the siren vines and the cabin arc but that is at least something that you can tell mookie had inspiration for. I wouldn't call it good, especially as it ties to the rest of the Legacy (it doesn't, the connections are forced into it) and the negative stereotyping that happens with Kaianda as a character (which is not limited to the cabin arc), but I can at least say that it is something I hadn't seen before. Kaianda I feel does get some cute enough moments when she's hanging around without being the centre of attention, like when she shows up with food during the vacation arc (and Snout shows how kind he is by eating it). Mookie doesn't do this enough but he did give himself an excuse to draw characters in the background by keeping a visual focus in any page that doesn't use text, and when he does it I think it works. Just wish there would be more of it and less of the white void. Sunflower's design was simple and to the point. I straight up liked the visual of "buff man whose head is a sunflower head", no qualifications there.
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May 31, 2023 00:31
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YF-23 posted:Snout is able to bring people together with the ~power of friendship~   Same reason he got shoved by McMullet:  The accusing finger is what really sells it.
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May 31, 2023 00:50
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Sunflower could have been fun had they existed as more than a plot device. You've got a member of a persecuted minority living in a land where many orcs still consider them livestock, being invited to the home of a "reformed" orc supremacist and finding that he also invited a known eugenicist who's openly discussing his beliefs right there. Maybe Sunflower should have done more than just stand there and smile and tell Snout he's a good boy? And that's not getting into how Sunflower gets maimed just so Snout can angst about it. Hell, an entire genocide exists only as window dressing to Arudak's angst where he posits he's the real victim, how was poor him supposed to know his friends who said plant-people had no rights and no personhood would start killing plant-people? Speaking of which, this doesn't count for the question since a lot of it was unintentional, but I did like moments where Idiota and Arudak were shown to have hidden information or even lied about things in order to make Snout act certain ways. There's a lot of fun that can be had in wondering if the hero's friend is really a friend, and it would have synergized with Idiota and Arudak struggling to work together without arguing, something else I also liked. The story never commits to any of that though and only gives some shallow excuse about how they can't be held responsible for their actions, and not accepting that explanation is treated as morally wrong. MiracleFlare fucked around with this message at 00:57 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 00:55
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The problem with identifying the "good ideas" is nearly everything had potential if done differently so it's like giving praise to a chef because they picked good ingredients, just maybe not all together and if only if you knew what to do with them and certainly before you dunked them all in the toilet. I think a lot of the problem with Legacy is that Mookie was in world building mode for most of it and he suuuuucks at that. His idea of world building is to come up with a single idea for a village or place, show it off in its own little bubble and then move on to the next flight of fancy. That's how the world of Dominic Deegan ended up with at least a dozen fantasy races most of which never come up because there was no point to any of them. If he's moving on from Legacy I hope he ditches the idea of a "world tour" and sticks to doing localised stories in one place.
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May 31, 2023 02:51
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Can't add anything sensible that's not already been said, especially regarding wasted potential, so I'll just go with the panel where the plant flips Snout off and the bit where that one flashy Orc guy comes in, insults Snout and makes him sad, then promptly buggers off. Also, any time Skullet lands a hit on Snout. His house getting blown up is good. Any instance of Snout getting disrespected or hosed up, all good with me.
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May 31, 2023 03:49
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Don't forget the time Snout rediscovered the mean orc's letter and had a sad all over again! I wonder how much longer it'll be till the actual ending. Also was the dwarf comic going to be part of the Deeganverse, or its own separate thing?
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May 31, 2023 04:17
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