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Thauros posted:i know it’s not unprecedented but when was the last time a rikishi who was this established and successful changed the major part of his shikona? i’ve watched for five years now and have never seen it before Before he made ozeki, Harumafuji went by Ama
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May 31, 2023 18:29
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For the biggest change, Harumafuji only took the name when he make ozeki. He was Ama all the way up. If all goes according to plan, Kotonowaka would be next as he's supposed to trade up and get his grandfather's Kotozakura name if he makes Ozeki. Hoshoryu's already has his Asashoryu inspired name so I doubt he trades unless they actually give him the Asa name. Daiesho and the Wakas have already surpassed their masters so I don't think there's a reason for them to change unless they have some other connection I don't know of.
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May 31, 2023 18:36
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The Waka brothers are all named after the three brothers(Takamoto, Motoharu, and Takakage) from the Japanese parable “the lesson of the three arrows”, so I don’t think one would change their name and ruin their whole name scheme.
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May 31, 2023 18:50
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Maybe I'll eat my words in a year or two, but I don't really believe in Kotonowaka's ability to ever make Ozeki.
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May 31, 2023 19:09
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Brut posted:Maybe I'll eat my words in a year or two, but I don't really believe in Kotonowaka's ability to ever make Ozeki. Mitakeumi spent 5 years bouncing around upper M and the S/K ranks before finally breaking through and he did so at age 29. Goeido took nearly three years to get there from the upper M ranks and he broke through at 28. Kotonowaka's still only 25, so I'd give him a couple of years to get there. anakha fucked around with this message at 20:08 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 20:05
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more like "already" 25
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May 31, 2023 20:47
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25 lol 
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May 31, 2023 21:14
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i had no idea harumafuji only took his shikona after reaching ozeki, thanks on the opposite end, is takayasu the only person to reach ozeki while using his birth family name as his shikona? p sure no yokozuna did. endō who peaked at lower san'yaku is the other current guy who comes to mind as having the most career success without a traditional shikona edit: oh wow, shodai is actually shodai's real name? 正(correct/righeous) 代 (generation/era) sounds like such a shikona which may be why it was kept Thauros fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 22:10
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anakha posted:Mitakeumi spent 5 years bouncing around upper M and the S/K ranks before finally breaking through and he did so at age 29. Goeido took nearly three years to get there from the upper M ranks and he broke through at 28. wakamotoharu didn't even make *makuuchi* until 28 and he looks like a very plausible future ozeki
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May 31, 2023 22:18
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Thauros posted:wakamotoharu didn't even make *makuuchi* until 28 and he looks like a very plausible future ozeki Sure but looking at their (WMH and WTK) build I suspect this has something to do with suddenly being able to access certain pharmaceuticals, though maybe Sokokurai is just a great teacher 
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May 31, 2023 22:28
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Flesnolk posted:more like "already" 25 I might be missing someone since I'm just looking at years and not birth month, but it looks like the only guys that have had 3 straight sanyaku appearances (so as to not count guys that have a fluke result at a lower level and promptly get destroyed) at 25 or younger are Teru, Keisho, Abi, Ichinojo and Hosho. So he's ahead of pace of just about everyone other than the phenoms. Ichinojo should have made Ozeki if he wasn't a lazy dumbass and Abi had his suspension just after that so who knows how his career would have gone. He's ahead of the other former Ozeki like Takayasu, Mita and Tochi. He might top out like Abi, but he's probably not going to flake out like Ichinojo given his background so he seems to be on track for at least a run. pseudodragon fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 22:38
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Brut posted:Maybe I'll eat my words in a year or two, but I don't really believe in Kotonowaka's ability to ever make Ozeki. I'm a big fan of Kotonowaka and think he's got massive potential if he can get a bit sharper on offense; defensively he's already super strong. Time will tell if he is the next Kisenosato or the next Takarafuji though.
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May 31, 2023 23:46
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Thauros posted:i had no idea harumafuji only took his shikona after reaching ozeki, thanks Oh no, I think this means that shodai's demotion was a departure from the righteous era.
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Jun 1, 2023 00:13
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I'm really not looking at age but more thinking of their actual style of Sumo and how each bout looks, I don't think it's likely that Kotonowaka will significantly change how he fights. Abi's an even more extreme version of that, he's very limited on technique variety and he's constantly putting his body way ahead of where his legs are, there's a reason his best performance (unless I'm missing something) is a 10-5 from M4 one time, I don't think there were ever realistic Ozeki hopes.
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Jun 1, 2023 00:13
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I have to believe most makuuchi rikishi have better training discipline than Abi. e: Abi seems like a guy who has benefited from having the physical gifts of a strong body with long limbs and that's gotten him far enough to not really care. Like Ichinojo's HUGE. I want to see if Hokuseiho will learn from how the back half of this tournament went and realize that trying to one arm big oaf his way through everything won't be a winning tactic often enough to stick. Shiroc fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jun 1, 2023 |
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Jun 1, 2023 00:51
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Lucasar posted:I'm a big fan of Kotonowaka and think he's got massive potential if he can get a bit sharper on offense; defensively he's already super strong. Time will tell if he is the next Kisenosato or the next Takarafuji though. Yeah - he's got a strong stable that's training him, has consistently improved season over season, and while his record wasn't amazing this tournament, it undercommunicates just how competitive most of his matches were. I think he maybe had one or two blowouts total the entire 15 days, every loss was hardfought and there was probably a path to victory in there somewhere. I'm the Kotonowaka fan in my group of sumo watchers (everyone else thinks he's weird because of the quadboob) and I will cheerfully talk about how good he is. But Shodai proved that defense-first sumo can absolutely succeed even in the modern era (the lovingly named Wall of Daikon), so I'm not worried about Kotonowaka.
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Jun 1, 2023 03:12
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Brut posted:I'm really not looking at age but more thinking of their actual style of Sumo and how each bout looks, I don't think it's likely that Kotonowaka will significantly change how he fights. Abi's an even more extreme version of that, he's very limited on technique variety and he's constantly putting his body way ahead of where his legs are, there's a reason his best performance (unless I'm missing something) is a 10-5 from M4 one time, I don't think there were ever realistic Ozeki hopes. You can't really ignore his age though. Except for the superstar tier that currently consists of just Teru and Keisho, everyone else at the top took a huge leap between 25 and 28-29. I'd think it's more reasonable to assume that Koto and Hoshoryu both have another level of improvement than not. And he doesn't even need to improve that much. He's gone a year and a half without a non-injury MK including 7 in a row at Joi where his worst result was 7-4-4 so 8-9 wins at Joi is probably his floor barring injury. He just needs to improve slightly to be a consistent 9-10 guy and then throw a lucky/overachieving tourney on top. I don't think he'll reach Takakeisho levels of great Ozeki, borderline Yoko, but I think he can pull a Takayasu-esque career. Heck, in 2-3 years, Teru, Kiri, Daiesho and Wakas (if they can hold/regain their current level) are all going to be on or nearing the downswing, Takakeisho could be broken, and the Hokuseiho/Hakuoho/Atamifuji/Onosato generation might not be at full power yet, leaving Hoshoryu and Koto at the top of the banzuke by default.
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Jun 1, 2023 03:50
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Oh I have a lot of faith in Hoshoryu to get a lot better, both for technique reasons and because he seems to actually care when he loses matches.
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Jun 1, 2023 04:49
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Looks like Ishiura just retired 
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Jun 1, 2023 14:42
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Ben Nerevarine posted:Looks like Ishiura just retired I thought I heard this a few weeks ago. Still, RIP. Ishiura and enho as Hak' sword bearer and dew sweeper was an all-time entourage.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:17
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Ben Nerevarine posted:Looks like Ishiura just retired Neck/spinal injuries suck rear end. Looks like he's sticking around with Hak as Magaki though so at least he'll do ok. I imagine he was doing the unofficial assistant coach thing anyways while he was rehabbing so this just makes it official. https://tachiai.org/2023/06/01/ishiura-retires-becomes-magaki-oyakata/ Has a bit about the politics about him getting the name and forcing the old Magaki into retirement.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:22
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Not surprised Ishiura has retired as has been stated about his injury. Hoping he does well as a coach. Tanji recently finished the most recent basho at sd11 with a 5-2 record which should see him promoted to Makushita for the first time since his debut a year ago. Nothing amazing about reaching the 3rd division after 7 bashos but Tanji is only 16. bessantj fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jun 1, 2023 |
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Jun 1, 2023 16:48
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There I was, struggling to find new avenues by which I could pester people with my sumo fandom. Who would have known my  would actually do something positive for me some 15+ years later.I'm ready to do terribly in another fantasy league as well.
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Jun 1, 2023 22:05
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Thauros posted:edit: oh wow, shodai is actually shodai's real name? 正(correct/righeous) 代 (generation/era) sounds like such a shikona which may be why it was kept Just remembered that Takayasu is another one that's actually his real family name and the weirdness of the 4 Takas in Makuuchi as they are all actually different kanji and are of different origins, even the stablemates Takakeisho and Takanosho. Takayasu's Taka means Tall, or High up. And his full name is High up and relaxed Takarafuji's kanji is actually Takara, meaning Treasure. So he's a fake Taka that's a spy from team fuji, but Treasure Mountain is a kick-rear end name. Takakeisho's means expensive, costly or noble, so I guess like fancy and digified? and his full name means Fancy landscape. Also, Takakeisho's dad was a huge Takanohana fanboy and Keisho's actual first name is Takanobu (Noble Faith) so his name would have actually been shikona ready. Takanosho's is noble or prosperous. Full name Prosperous Victory. Keisho's name comes from the great Yokozuna Takanohana while Takanosho came from Komusubi Takamisugui. Takanohana and Takamisugui were contemporaries as wrestlers but were in separate stables so their names had separate origins. Their stables were run by two brothers (Takanohana's father and uncle) so they naturally merged when the elder brother retired and I guess Takanohana and Takamisugui became buddies during this time. As a side note, this combined stable was the most stupidly OP stable ever with at one point 10 simultaneous Makuuchi members including 2 Yokozuna, 1 Ozeki and a bunch of guys floating around the K/S/Upper M ranks (One of whom was Oho's dad who is a character in his own right). Like Takanohana would regularly get to fight down to M7/8ish because of all the intra-stable matchups he got to skip. They both later went on to run their own stables with each handing down their version of the Taka name. Then Takanohana attempted a coup on the JSA and got his rear end kicked out and his stable disbanded. His guys got merged into his old friend's team so hence 2 different kinds of Taka on the same team. pseudodragon fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jun 2, 2023 |
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Jun 2, 2023 07:52
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I was first learning some kanji when I first got into sumo and when I saw his name I instinctively translated it to Big Easy and now that’s stuck, even though fundamentally incorrect. So he’ll always be the Big Easy to me.
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Jun 2, 2023 11:23
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Like Daiamami, though in that case it's not the kanji but the pronunciation that cemented his name as "Big Sweetness" in my mind.
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Jun 2, 2023 12:40
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https://twitter.com/HakuhoSho69/status/1664887645929889793https://twitter.com/HakuhoSho69/status/1664894737663361024 It is done
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Jun 3, 2023 09:25
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i'm really excited to see the guys coming out of the new stables. hakuho for sure will have sports scientists and poo poo in there saying 'no, 15 hour training days will make them worse' so i'm expecting the talent level to go way up and rikishi longevity to also go up.
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Jun 3, 2023 13:31
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Oh yeah some actual modern training techniques in sumo could be a game changer, from what gets put out in public it seems that they're very set in tradition, and even the weight programs they do look a few decades behind most combat/contact sports. Brut posted:Sure but looking at their (WMH and WTK) build I suspect this has something to do with suddenly being able to access certain pharmaceuticals, though maybe Sokokurai is just a great teacher Otoh there's this. WMH hitting heights he's never seemed able to, coupled with a juicy physique at 29? Kinda sus, maybe they are modern behind closed doors.
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Jun 3, 2023 14:55
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MyChemicalImbalance posted:from what gets put out in public it seems that they're very set in tradition, [said to a man holding the rank of 'champion'] try warming up dude
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Jun 3, 2023 15:26
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MyChemicalImbalance posted:Oh yeah some actual modern training techniques in sumo could be a game changer, from what gets put out in public it seems that they're very set in tradition, and even the weight programs they do look a few decades behind most combat/contact sports. Yeah, they are super traditional. This does seem to be changing though. Kisenosato and I believe some other guys went to school after retiring specifically to get sports management degrees and when they were talking about the new Nishonseki stable building they were talking about modern wonders like dedicated video rooms, secondary dohyos so multiple people can practice at the same time and individual dorm rooms so people can have some privacy resting.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-iI-7nBwBw Nice little feature on Tochinoshin.
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Jun 4, 2023 04:48
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ImplicitAssembler posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-iI-7nBwBw 
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Jun 4, 2023 06:13
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MyChemicalImbalance posted:Oh yeah some actual modern training techniques in sumo could be a game changer, from what gets put out in public it seems that they're very set in tradition, and even the weight programs they do look a few decades behind most combat/contact sports. Afaik they don't test for steroids and theyr constantly injured so I'd be pretty surprised if they weren't juicing even while training treaditionally
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Jun 4, 2023 19:02
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Communist Thoughts posted:Afaik they don't test for steroids and theyr constantly injured so I'd be pretty surprised if they weren't juicing even while training treaditionally they are absolutely on gear. our boy tochinoshin is a poster boy.
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Jun 4, 2023 19:11
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The swag is off the charts.
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Jun 4, 2023 20:46
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There was a musical interlude on the Midnight Sumo stream in which Kakuryu sang "My Way." He's got one hell of a set of pipes on him, that's for sure.
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Jun 4, 2023 21:13
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Fearless posted:There was a musical interlude on the Midnight Sumo stream in which Kakuryu sang "My Way." He's got one hell of a set of pipes on him, that's for sure. A bunch of rikishi are better-than-average singers. Takayasu comes to mind, too. And Enho, showing it's not necessarily the bigger body giving them musical chops.
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Jun 4, 2023 21:49
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Ikioi's singing voice is really good.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:07
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Hirayuki posted:https://youtu.be/ACTbrq1jzXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_z0PVc2wJw&t=72s
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Jun 4, 2023 23:43
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