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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Eh, inter- and intra-species war depends heavily on the seed. as I was recently educated on in this thread, this actually means you're overproducing resources by at least 30% if you're making money off ship sales. its a fair point to say that its easier and quicker than setting up a warehouse distribution network to maximize profit from the resources you're otherwise taking a haircut on by selling direct order ships, and supply chain optimization bullshit is not the most fun aspect of the game for me so I'd most likely even agree. But I'm just sure I'm far from the only one who didn't notice this until it was spelled out to me.
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May 31, 2023 22:48
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HiroProtagonist posted:as I was recently educated on in this thread, this actually means you're overproducing resources by at least 30% if you're making money off ship sales.
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May 31, 2023 23:00
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I'm making massive bank despite raising the prices that other factions pay to 150% - and achieving high efficiency isn't that hard, you just need to keep your workforce at 100%. oh fair enough, i don't know how workforce factors into the topline loss since i stated i don't bother with it usually and therefore it understandably wasn't addressed. i might now though if it can offset the coded in losses because it would be an overall simplification at that point.
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May 31, 2023 23:13
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Sorry, selling manufactured ships is less profit than selling the parts, generally? I might not be understanding that correctly, not that I’ve made it far enough to build ships yet.
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May 31, 2023 23:52
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If you just want money and have around 20m credits and finished the high-mass teleportation research (to unlock terraforming), you should be able to terraform Memory of Profit by simply building an extra base (the materials needed for a base capable of doing drones + workshop are less than the materials for the teleport). That gives you a bottomless source of nividium. If you somehow don't have a 5-star manager yet, terraforming Black Hole Sun gets you one - but it's a much bigger money sink (around 1.5 billion, if memory serves). After that, doing Scale Plate Green is possible by teleporting your PHQ onto the wharf/shipyard, assuming you have a fleet/base capable of defending against a shitload of Ms, several Ks and an I or two that'll swarm you - it's around 1.5 billion as well. This gets you a shitload of ships with exceptional mods, that you can strip using your S/M manufacturing bay, and no more SCA bothering your ships. If you like ANT, you can do all of theirs leading all the way to Atiya's Misfortune - but it totals over 10 billion credits. The amounts listed are based on memory from when I did it, figuring on about how much it costs to buy everything. You can, of course, set up your PHQ to make things from raw resources, but it'll take weeks/months in SETA mode. EDIT: If you do do (heh) this, check out this site (it contains spoilers, obviously). BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jun 1, 2023 |
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Jun 1, 2023 00:41
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Subjunctive posted:Sorry, selling manufactured ships is less profit than selling the parts, generally? I might not be understanding that correctly, not that I’ve made it far enough to build ships yet. You can still earn a lot of money selling ships to the AI if you're self sufficient and work on the assumption that since you paid nothing for your inputs, your 300,000/450,000 credit return for that million credit ship sale is pure profit. However had you simply sold the million credits of wares to build that ship directly to the AI you'd have a million credits ( or close to it, adjusted for the demand for the individual wares ), and the same holds true if you build a ship then sell it to a faction shipyard. Efficiency gives you free wares ( to a max of something like 36% per production module at 100% efficiency ) at the cost of added station infrastructure, production chains and the time it takes to get to 100% efficiency, which will compound through a ware's production chain and get you closer reaching parity, but then you're also just making that much more again with your 100% efficient complexes selling ship materials directly to the AI rather than letting them buy ships from your shipyard. So the question becomes, do you want to make money or all of the money?
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Jun 1, 2023 02:28
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Man I don't take a poo poo for 30% the cost of materials, what the hell is that
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Jun 1, 2023 02:36
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Danaru posted:Man I don't take a poo poo for 30% the cost of materials, what the hell is that Yep, it's a really annoying decision from Egosoft. I mean hell, if they were gonna do it anyway, they could've at least had the decency to wait until after I've already made a killing from shipbuilding, first! EDIT: Also, based on BlankSystemDaemon's post earlier, it sounds like I should terraform Memory of Profit first, then get a bunch of miners for nvidium, then make money off that before going for Ocean of Fantasy? Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jun 1, 2023 |
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Jun 1, 2023 02:52
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Major Isoor posted:Yep, it's a really annoying decision from Egosoft. I mean hell, if they were gonna do it anyway, they could've at least had the decency to wait until after I've already made a killing from shipbuilding, first! Once you have all the blueprints and can build all the ships yourself, really money doesn't matter anymore in the game. I'm not sure but the terraforming projects seem like more of endgame goals/grind rather than a way to profit.
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Jun 1, 2023 03:05
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axelord posted:Once you have all the blueprints and can build all the ships yourself, really money doesn't matter anymore in the game. Also Boso isn't lying when he says that the material gains from terraforming are outweighed by the costs, but hey you get to tart up your office some more, turn SCA into a real boy and get some exceptional ship mods, strengthen Antigone ( which I don't know how well it'd play out for them if you already have them at war with the Terrans ), can train marines and pilots to 5 stars and you can finally sell all that Nvidium you've been hoarding since you filled up all the trading stations and they can't take no more. It's also the point where I'm bored with the game and tear it all down and start over ( hence why I've only ever completed two projects ).
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Jun 1, 2023 03:17
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axelord posted:Once you have all the blueprints and can build all the ships yourself, really money doesn't matter anymore in the game. Oh yeah, it's not really as a "get rich quick" scheme - more just a way to use resources I'm already producing to try and get another stream of income on the side, for (effectively) free. Which kinda feeds into the thing you mentioned about getting all the blueprints - I've probably got around half the S+M ship prints and most of the modules for them, but still need that money to get to the rest. So far I've just been manually selling a few ships here and there to supplement my manufacturing business. I want to get up to speed ASAP though, which was why I was wondering about the nvidium workshops
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Jun 1, 2023 03:19
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Major Isoor posted:Oh yeah, it's not really as a "get rich quick" scheme - more just a way to use resources I'm already producing to try and get another stream of income on the side, for (effectively) free. It's been a while, but don't you need to have your PHQ in Memory of Profit to even access the Nvidium Workshop once it's built? Once you've moved on that's it right, you'd want to have a loooot of Nvidium to make it worth the trip moving your HQ in and out of the sector between other projects or what ever else you're doing with it?
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Jun 1, 2023 03:44
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ZombyDog posted:It's been a while, but don't you need to have your PHQ in Memory of Profit to even access the Nvidium Workshop once it's built? Once you've moved on that's it right, you'd want to have a loooot of Nvidium to make it worth the trip moving your HQ in and out of the sector between other projects or what ever else you're doing with it? Eurgh! Ok then, well that's lame
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Jun 1, 2023 04:11
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Major Isoor posted:Yep, it's a really annoying decision from Egosoft. I mean hell, if they were gonna do it anyway, they could've at least had the decency to wait until after I've already made a killing from shipbuilding, first! ZombyDog posted:That's the secret, money is a problem until it's not. Major Isoor posted:Eurgh! Ok then, well that's lame You absolutely do not need to move your PHQ to make money from Nividium. Just buy a plot, build a base with the workshop and a S/M ship manufacturing bay, and have everything transferred from your PHQ (assuming you're doing a PHQ that handles everything, otherwise you can plug it into your network of trade stations using some L traders).
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Jun 1, 2023 08:37
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:You absolutely do not need to move your PHQ to make money from Nividium. Ohhhh, OK right, that sounds good. My PHQ is only really there for research and terraforming, so I guess I'll move it to MoP, sort out the terraforming stuff there (with a separate plot for the workshop) and then teleport it to Ocean of Fantasy, I guess. Then just chug away with nvidium miners. (Out of curiosity, do you need hull parts etc for the S/M ship fab? Since judging from your post I assume the workshop station periodically sends product down to the surface, like with terraforming drones?)
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Jun 1, 2023 08:43
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I promise I'll be done asking questions at some point  That said, how do I get a fleet's fighters to automatically undock/dock for combat? I see there's a default behaviour where they are set to escort - but its greyed out and the fighters just follow me around unless I manually order them to dock. E: google says I have to be piloting the lead ship, which I am.
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Jun 1, 2023 09:19
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Defend commander absolutely makes ships dock at a carrier and not launch until its attacked. I think attack with commander does this too.
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Jun 1, 2023 09:42
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Huh, I must be doing something wrong then. Maybe pictures will help. Here the fighter is assigned to defence but is just chilling in space  This is the commanding ship, if that's any help.
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Jun 1, 2023 09:54
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I believe that it depends a lot on relative travel speeds. Fighters on Defend will dock when the carrier is given a move order - *if* they are significantly slower in travel drive. IIRC Fighters on Intercept should always dock if theres no target in range. I usually prefer to keep fighter groups locked to Docked, though for proper carriers I like to have substantial numbers of the cheapest fighter possible on active Intercept duties.
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Jun 1, 2023 10:12
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Setting the eclipse to intercept isn't working either, still just sitting in space. CODEA in X3 was easier than this lmao
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Jun 1, 2023 10:18
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Major Isoor posted:Ohhhh, OK right, that sounds good. My PHQ is only really there for research and terraforming, so I guess I'll move it to MoP, sort out the terraforming stuff there (with a separate plot for the workshop) and then teleport it to Ocean of Fantasy, I guess. Then just chug away with nvidium miners. (Out of curiosity, do you need hull parts etc for the S/M ship fab? Since judging from your post I assume the workshop station periodically sends product down to the surface, like with terraforming drones?) Just build a station there, and let the logical overview guide what you install. Fruits of the sea posted:I promise I'll be done asking questions at some point  Setting it to docked should force all of them to dock at least once, but they should be doing it habitually. I don't know if it works for the other commander behaviours than attack, defend, and intercept. Defend for commander is context-sensitive, where the commander will send out a few ships to defend against a single attacker, but send out more if it's being attacked by multiple ships. Attack for commander will always send out ships for all enemies, including L and XL ships. Intercept for commander sends out some of the ships but only for S and M ships. Bombard appears to be exclusively useful if you have L ships following a XL carrier or something - it makes them keep their distance to take out all of the turrets, so you can keep your fighters docked until most turrets have been taken out.
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Jun 1, 2023 10:42
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Thanks! OK, that got me halfway there. The eclipse lands when I toggle it to docked and takes off when I toggle it to launched. I set the Eclipse's role to attack and flew into a ball of Xenon. It didn't undock until I went into loadout and toggled it to launched. I'm guessing there's some other setting that needs to be changed before it undocks on its own? E: or am I supposed to pause the game and toggle "launched" whenever there's a fight? Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jun 1, 2023 |
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Jun 1, 2023 11:08
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'Docked' forces them to stay docked. They won't undock by themselves (except, for some reason, if the ship whines about being attacked and you tell them to resist) You can however issue the docked ships orders while they're docked, they'll go do whatever, then return to the ship and dock again when they finish
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Jun 1, 2023 11:15
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. The fighter takes off immediately when it is toggled to "launched" regardless of whether I am in combat or not. I promise I'll stop making GBS threads up the thread after this 
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Jun 1, 2023 11:18
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Yeah it's not just you, the docking/undocking stuff feels so inconsistent across different scenarios. I just leave any carriers or whatever with their subordinates undocked and try not to think about it at this point.
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Jun 1, 2023 11:23
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Don't bother with subordinates fighters unless it's a carrier with an aux ship attached imo
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Jun 1, 2023 11:24
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FrickenMoron posted:Don't bother with subordinates fighters unless it's a carrier with an aux ship attached imo The auxiliary ships just need a bit of a defensive fleet docked in case of emergency, but usually if it goes that bad it's easier to savescum if you're not in a position to fix it.
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Jun 1, 2023 11:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVMCpw16ClA Updates on 7.0 content. Featues apparently the ability to start a war with a faction vs the player, and improvemenets to third person controls for ships.
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Jun 1, 2023 12:34
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Like I said previously, using the materials to move your PHQ is a waste of materials. Yep, yep - gotcha! Sounds good to me. Apologies for misunderstanding, as I haven't terraformed before and figured the PHQ would be needed initially to kick them all off. Good to hear that's not the case though! I think I'll start on MoP soon then OwlFancier posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVMCpw16ClA oooh, very interesting! Hopefully they bring in some proper missions and large-scale combat against the kha'ak, too
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Jun 1, 2023 12:50
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Fruits of the sea posted:Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. The fighter takes off immediately when it is toggled to "launched" regardless of whether I am in combat or not. What ship are you using as the carrier? From the screen shots it looks like a M ship? If you don't have enough storage and S docks then the ships that can't land will not land. Frigates shouldn't have anything docked anyways since it's too much of a hassle and the lack of docks makes the whole thing a pain. I have wings of M ships with 4 S fighters as escorts patrolling my mining sectors and I have never bothered with docking or undocking. If it's a player controlled ship, you can just use the dock/undock controll on the inventory tab with the fighter set as defend commander under fleet. Make sure you clear tasks that the fighter is doing under the behavior tab since the dock order doesn't automatically sit at the top.
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Jun 1, 2023 13:30
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Exciting news. I still hope we see a return of the Xenon Hub. There are plenty of inactive gates to link up.
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Jun 1, 2023 13:51
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ughhhh posted:What ship are you using as the carrier? From the screen shots it looks like a M ship? If you don't have enough storage and S docks then the ships that can't land will not land. Frigates shouldn't have anything docked anyways since it's too much of a hassle and the lack of docks makes the whole thing a pain. I have wings of M ships with 4 S fighters as escorts patrolling my mining sectors and I have never bothered with docking or undocking. If it's a player controlled ship, you can just use the dock/undock controll on the inventory tab with the fighter set as defend commander under fleet. Make sure you clear tasks that the fighter is doing under the behavior tab since the dock order doesn't automatically sit at the top. Yeah I really just wanted a pain-free way to do missions and zap xenon while my miners and station build up cash. My fighters can't keep up with my souped up cobra so it's proving to be a lot more of a hassle than expected.
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Jun 1, 2023 13:58
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Send your fighters to chill and protect the miners, missions are better done solo really. You can always assign them to a station once you build one, frigates really arent carriers.
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Jun 1, 2023 14:09
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It's nice to have a S ship docked on your personal big boy ship. Having some satellites and a fast nimble ship is useful. Letting the AI to use them to support you in combat is a good way to lose your ship tbh. Best setup for that though is to assign the S ship under defend wing in a fleet and use the dock/undock command when you need them.
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Jun 1, 2023 14:39
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Major Isoor posted:Yep, yep - gotcha! Sounds good to me. Apologies for misunderstanding, as I haven't terraformed before and figured the PHQ would be needed initially to kick them all off. Good to hear that's not the case though! I think I'll start on MoP soon then I can totally understand why you'd think that, because the game doesn't tell you that the PHQ isn't needed. FrickenMoron posted:Exciting news. I still hope we see a return of the Xenon Hub. There are plenty of inactive gates to link up. Still, being able to take over that hub would be very nice.
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Jun 1, 2023 14:57
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Xenon Hub is in game, you'll find it near the star in Eleventh Hour, 155,000 km from the centre of the sector.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVMCpw16ClA Bernd talking about the future.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:26
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Only ships that are actually Carriers- They say "Carrier" on the dropdown in the shipyard when you buy them- have the automatic fighter docking. All other ships will only dock fighters manually.
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Jun 2, 2023 08:29
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I reinstalled this the other day and decided to restart (instead of picking up my Val Sefton 3-4 stations save) to see all the new stuff. For the first time, I’m doing the Terran start. Which was going great until the PHQ showed up and dumped me into Grand Exchange, and my Kukri is gone and I’m slumming it in a Guillemot. Is the idea now to just explore around here until I find a wharf or equipment dock? And is it better to stick around Teladi space and get my first couple of miners going here, or hightail it back to Sol?
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Jun 4, 2023 00:53
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I just did the Terran start and set up a bunch of ore and silicon autominers in Terran space. I then flew back to Terran space to fetch my original ship while exploring the map on the way back. I did not remember being -15 with so many factions at the start so I also started doing missions and randomly flying by stations to torch a criminal for a faction boost along the way. I also managed to clean up after a Xenon battle in Paranid space with the parts to craft the SETA module. By the time I got back from my adventures a had a few million in the bank, which I reinvested in M sized autominers to jumpstart the economy and further my passive income generation.
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Jun 4, 2023 02:05
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