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Stealing cannons looks like a fun gimmick. But the navy... while interesting is probably not the best option no.
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Jun 1, 2023 06:56
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Montezuma - Part 6: Broken Spears Mission 6 Starting Text "Passed down to you by Cuauhtémoc, Emperor of Tenochtitlan. The Spanish will return soon. I had hoped that Cortéz would continue fleeing back from whence he came, but he stopped to regroup at Tlaxcala. I imagine that he could not stand the thought of returning to Spain while we still had treasuries of gold hidden from him. Still dreaming of gold and glory, the Spanish pledged themselves to another assault on Tenochtitlan. In Tlaxcala, Cortéz constructed many war boats on dry land. Then he had the craft broken down and carried through the rain forest, only to be rebuilt on Lake Texcoco. He knows that my Aztec warriors can defend the bridges leading into Tenochtitlan, but we are vulnerable from the water. I called the warriors to one final battle. The priests attempted to encourage the troops by calling upon the Aztecs to defend their ancient gods and their glorious city. They sent up smoke signals to declare that the Aztecs were ready for war, as I climbed the steps of the great temple and sounded the shell trumpet. Tenochtitlan would be under siege soon, and the brave Aztecs would die before we would see her captured."   Aztec Warrior: We demolished the southern causeway to slow the Spanish advance.  For the final mission in the Aztec campaign, it's back to Tenochtitlan, but this time the map is reversed: you control the center, and it's the Spanish and Tlaxcalans on the outside hoping to break in. Destroying the southern bridge turns out to be very advantageous to you, as it means that Cortéz' Navy can only attack you by sea, meaning that they're relatively less of a threat, but you still need to act quickly in order to capitalize on that. In the original version of this mission, the Wonder was just set dressing, but now failing to defend it grants each of your enemies the Imperial Age unique techs of several other civilizations relating to their particular role on this map for free. Then again, if the Wonder goes down you're probably toast anyway.  A quick strike on Tlaxcala's barracks at the base of the western bridge removes them as a threat for the rest of the mission. On higher level difficulties you would be incentivized to take out their entire town, which is still pretty easy to do early on, but as it is they never seemed to come back swinging.  Spanish Conquistador: We have returned for the rest of your gold. Surrender now or feel the wrath of our bombards! After a couple minutes, the Spanish start to attack, the more notable of the two offenses coming from the Navy to the south.  Aztec Warrior: The Spanish must have abandoned these warships during their flight from Tenochtitlan. Now we will use them to bring death to the Spanish by sea!   But thanks to a couple of Cannon Galleons you find to the north (Turtle Ships before Definitive Edition), it turns out the Navy is a paper tiger. Smash their starting defense fleet and destroy their Docks and they will never build them up again, leaving them trapped on the southern island.    Spanish Conquistador: You are postponing the inevitable. The time of the Aztec Empire has passed. Look to us as your new rulers. This leaves Cortéz' Army as the only real threat, but to their credit, they make a good go at it. They send a bunch of Trebuchets from the northern bridge to tear down your static defenses and Conquistadors to sneak into your base from the western bridge and shoot up your economy.   But ultimately all Cortéz' Army can do is poke at individual weak points in my defenses. There just aren't enough troops there to stop the hammer blow that comes from my army having no other distractions.    I return my troops to the center of Tenochtitlan and mount a naval invasion to the south. With the Cannon Galleons having cleared out all of Cortéz' Navy's coastal defenses, there's nothing to stop me from laying siege to their base and forcing them to resign. Once both Spanish forces have been defeated, Tlaxcala automatically resigns, granting you victory. Aztec Warrior: We have done it! Tenochtitlan still stands and the armies of Cortéz are defeated! The Aztec Empire has triumphed... for now. Mission 6 Ending Text "Not so long ago, some five hundred thousand people called Tenochtitlan home. It is difficult to recall that this smoking ruin was once an endless city. Yet, we will rebuild. We created this island upon which our city and temples stand, and we can do it once more. The Aztec Empire has endured its greatest challenge. Yet, more Spanish may come in the future. I am not certain there is a place for us in the new world. I could ask the gods for a hint of the future, but no doubt that would lead to more sacrifice and I think there has been enough death for now. My people composed a poem to commemorate this great war that we have survived, and yet perhaps still not won: Broken spears lie in the roads. We have torn our hair in our grief. The houses are roofless now, and their walls are red with blood... So says Cuauhtémoc, Emperor of Tenochtitlan." This one was more enjoyable to play than comes across in the writing, but it does still fundamentally boil down to isolating your enemies and destroying them each one by one. I didn't enjoy the Montezuma campaign. The third mission was fun, along with individual elements throughout, and the story's well told, but... the majority of the missions were boring or just conceptually uninteresting overall and even granting that Montezuma was as incompetent as the campaign makes him look (which is a contested question), this is probably the furthest that the game has stretched the history so far. Overall review for the Age of Conquerors campaigns? Meh. I expected a grab-bag from the Battles of the Conquerors, so it was alright that those varied in quality, and Attila was great, but El Cid and Montezuma kind of drag the whole thing down to just okay overall on a purely gameplay level. Extra Slides Mission 6 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 6 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 6 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 6 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 6 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 6 - End Slide 1 Mission 6 - End Slide 2 Mission 6 - End Slide 3
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Jun 2, 2023 01:06
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Campaign Vote #10 Sticking with the Forgotten campaigns right now, since there's still a decent number of them left to go. A. Sforza - Italians B. Vlad Dracula - Turks/Magyars/Slavs C. Bari - Byzantines D. Pachacuti - Incas E. Prithviraj - Gurjaras F. Battles of the Forgotten - Persians/Mayans/Vikings/Magyars/Chinese/Japanese/Britons/Turks Voting lasts for 24 Hours from the time of this post. In the event of a tie, I will act as the tiebreaking vote between the two tied options. Please bold your vote in order for it to be counted, as well as noting if you are changing your vote from something else.
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Jun 2, 2023 01:09
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I was re-watching part of Hellsing Ultimate Abridged lately, so I'm in the mood for B. Vlad Dracula
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Jun 2, 2023 01:47
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Let's finish off the Americas with D. Pachacuti
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Jun 2, 2023 02:02
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B. Vlad Dracula!
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Jun 2, 2023 02:28
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B. Vlad Dracula
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Jun 2, 2023 02:29
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Technowolf posted:Let's finish off the Americas with D. Pachacuti yeah i enjoyed Pachacuti
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Jun 2, 2023 02:33
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D. Pachacuti's a good campaign.
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Jun 2, 2023 02:39
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B. Vlad Dracula
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Jun 2, 2023 03:33
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Technowolf posted:Let's finish off the Americas with D. Pachacuti
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Jun 2, 2023 10:20
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As a kid I really enjoyed the atmosphere of the Aztec campaign with its exotic details and mystical omens, the technological disadvantage and the feeling of doom you get from knowing how real history went. Obviously with age and hindsight one can see how it's more based on pop culture perceptions of the Aztecs (notably the extremely dubious idea that the Spanish were seen as gods), but I appreciate that the narration neither whitewash the sacrifices nor condemn them (I mean it's narrated by an Aztec, why would he?). It adds to the idea that these campaigns are all about perspective. And yeah, Pachacuti sounds good.
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Jun 2, 2023 11:07
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Technowolf posted:Let's finish off the Americas with D. Pachacuti
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Jun 2, 2023 11:17
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Technowolf posted:Let's finish off the Americas with D. Pachacuti Yeah, lets go with Pachacuti. I enjoyed that campaign when I played through it, and that was well before the Incas got their recent buffs.
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Jun 2, 2023 12:58
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El Dorad- err I mean Pachacuti
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Jun 2, 2023 13:08
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Do the Pachacuti
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Jun 2, 2023 13:30
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Vote's closed! We're running off to the Realm of the Four Parts to cover the reign of Sapa Inca Pachacuti!
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Jun 3, 2023 01:44
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Something I saw this morning, folks earlier commented on Saracens being historically thought of as a bottom tier civ. If you want an example of Saracens taking heads in top-tier competitive play, game 2 of this series (at about the 21 minute mark) shows the Saracens defeating the Mongols, a top-tier civ, with sheer good play. Part of this is undoubtedly down to MbL playing the Saracens, a player known for his unconventional play, but in general it's a master class in corralling the Mongols to keep them from gaining map control and food, aggressive play preventing the Mongols from getting the resources needed for castles to build their deadly Mangudai, and the constant threat of Saracen camels neatly eliminating the Hussar spam that Mongols rely on. The Saracens may in general be a below average civilization, but a skilled player picking them for the right matchup and using them well can take down even the most feared civs in the competitive circuit.
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Jun 3, 2023 13:58
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Pachacuti - Part 1: A New Power Arises Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Incas Theme Very well, then let us begin, the tale of the man who shook the earth.   Mission 1 Starting Text "'So, you want to know why this region is called the Field of Blood?' The old man peered over in astonishment from his seat in the shadow of his stone hut. He smiled mischievously as he continued, 'You are probably not from here. If you were, you would not have asked such a question.' I nodded in affirmation, for the old man was right: I was a merchant from the south. 'It is the first time that my path has led to Cuzco, the heart of the Inca Empire', I explained. 'You are fortunate that you have chosen to rest in my village, my young and illiterate friend,' the old man told me, rising and pointing to the entrance of his dwelling. You must know that I am the most renowned storyteller in the entire valley. If there is anyone who can explain why the plain that surrounds us has that ominous name, it is I,' he said, gesturing to me to enter his house. 'Today, all inhabitants of this region are full of admiration for our empire,' he boasted, 'but everything that is now subject to the Inca had to be conquered. Who knows? If not for Viracocha Inca, we all might still be simple farmers like I am.' 'During the years before his reign, many nearby tribes were periodically conquered, but no garrisons or Inca officials were placed among them. This pattern of raiding and plundering changed during the reign of Viracocha. He would establish permanent rule over the neighboring tribes.'"  Eagle Warrior: Without the blessing of the Gods, the power of the Inca will sit on a foundation of sand. Let us capture as many holy artifacts as we can to prove that we are worthy of their favor! You start this mission with a decently well built up base in the southeast of the map and with the goal to capture 3 artifacts.  Quechua: We have no quarrel with the Inca, and we are willing to let bygones be bygones. Perhaps we can find common ground and come to an agreement? A couple of minutes in, Quechua offers to ally with you. The game doesn't explicitly tell you how to do this in the on screen objectives, but it's accomplished by giving them 300 gold or destroying all of their Watch Towers.   Quechua: A wise decision! From now on, we will help you face the tribal confederations of the Chanca and the Cuyos. I waffle for a bit on whether or not to hand them the money, but then both they and the Tambos start raiding me, so I just hand over the 300 gold so I can guarantee a safe eastern border. Quechua will also tribute you resources every so often, and more importantly are a useful trading partner to have, as the map's gold piles are relatively limited in nature and most of them are a lot closer to the enemy bases than to yours.   All of the other enemy forces eventually get in on the raids, but the Tambos remain the most aggressive. This makes sense because they're the only ones in this scenario locked to the Feudal Age, so they figure if they can't beat you before you hit Castle, they never will.  Once you hit Castle age, trade for some stone (again, there are very few stone piles on the map, and most of them are in enemy territory, fortunately the Incas have a discount on constructing Stone buildings), and build some Castles most of the early game pressure fades away. But you can't give up your vigilance entirely, as the Chanca and the Cuyos will eventually start adding Rams to their raiding parties.  I build up an army primarily comprised of the Incan Unique Units: Kamayuks (spearmen who can attack through other units) and Slingers (anti-Infantry Archer unit that can be trained at Archery Ranges, has no minimum distance to fire once you get the Incas' unique Castle Age tech) and some Rams.    Chanca Soldier: The Inca have destroyed one of our border fortresses! They will pay for this... sooner or later! Since I'm worried that if left alone the longest they will eventually become the biggest threat, I attack the Chanca first. The assault goes fairly smoothly, except for taking out their Castle which turns out to be kind of a mess. I wanted to defeat all of my opponents thoroughly so they didn't come back and sneak attack me later, but it's a lot faster to destroy the main base of each opponent, grab the Artifact hidden in a set of wooden palisades, and just make a break for it back to your own base. The artifact looks like a Relic, but is in fact an autonomous Relic Cart unit that moves on its own, but can be taken from your control if no other units are next to it, like a Sheep (or since we're playing on Incan maps, a Llama.) The Cuyos and the Chanca also have two Trade Workshops each, buildings that were originally planned to have a purpose in the main game but were scrapped and turned into scenario only ones. Destroy each of the Workshops to gain a free upgrade that you would otherwise not be able to research in this scenario. The Chanca Workshops give you Bracer and an upgrade to Capped Rams. The Chanca swearing vengeance here isn't foreshadowing anything particular for this scenario, just that they're going to come back as enemies in the overall campaign.  The Cuyos send an advance scouting party to try and figure out why their Trade Carts are being disrupted and receive a face full of sling bullets.   Same situation for the Cuyos as for the Chanca, although their Castle standing right above the Artifact pen makes it a little more difficult to cut and run than it would be for the Chanca. Their Trade Workshops provide Plate Mail and Siege Engineers. Supposedly the Cuyos have a second Artifact lying around such that you should only need to deal with them and one of the other enemy factions, but I wasn't particularly interested in finding it, since by this point all that was left was defeating the Feudal Age Tambos.    Eagle Warrior: We have captured three artifacts! Viracocha will be greatly pleased with us! With the two stronger opponents out of the way, defeating the Tambos is more of a victory lap than anything else. Bring the three artifacts to a flagged area in your base and you win. If you were playing on a higher difficulty setting you'd do this loop in reverse order: take out the Tambos to stop early raiding, then blitz the Cuyos to grab their Artifacts and win without having to deal with the Chanca. But, you know, gotta show everything off where possible. Mission 1 Ending Text "'Viracocha was convinced that he was favored by the gods,' the old man continued in a tone that suddenly seemed scornful, 'but in truth he owed his victories to his two generals: Vicaquirao and Apo Mayta. They were the strategists behind the military tactics that made the conquest of the Cuzco valley possible in the first place.' 'Viracocha was too conceited to realize that, and his pride following their hard-fought triumph nearly led the Inca to ruin.'" So far, so good! The scenario definitely has the hallmarks of post-Forgotten design that we saw in Alaric - foremost among them, the trust that even on Standard the player can handle a slightly rough opening and that the story is ultimately the servant of the gameplay. It's a fun little opener, although especially since you're limited to Castle Age, there's no particular reason why you should use an army made mostly of Incan unique units compared to standard ones here except for theme. This is more of a general problem with the Incas though. Extra Slides Mission 1 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 6 Mission 1 - End Slide 1 Mission 1 - End Slide 2 Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 14:27
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Pachacuti - Part 2: The Field of Blood Mission 2 Starting Text "When the old man had begun his story, the hut had been flooded by sunlight. The golden disk had long since sunk below the horizon, and the light of the embers dancing around in the darkness only faintly illuminated his wrinkled face. He refilled his clay mug and then continued the story. 'Viracocha believed that his reign was sacred and that he was protected by divine providence. However, the gods had turned away from him towards a new favorite: a wild, young warlord named Anccu Hualloc. He hailed from the Chanca tribes and had recruited more than 40,000 warriors, with whom he marched on Cuzco!' 'The inhabitants were sure that their beloved ruler would remain and drive out the invaders. Sadly, Viracocha had grown old and fear had infected his heart. Together with Urqu, his favorite son, he fled, abandoning his people to their fate.' 'Not all of Viracocha's sons were as cowardly as their father. Cusi Yupanqui refused to follow his aged father, and instead took command of the defense. Full of confidence, he announced that he would defeat the Chanca army. However, the few soldiers remaining in the city could not be impressed by bold words, as Cusi Yupanqui had no military experience to justify his claim. Luckily, Vicaquirao and Apo Mayta had also remained in Cuzco...'"  Viracocha: Anccu Hualloc's warriors have almost reached Cuzco! Stop them at all costs! You start the scenario with a small army facing a seemingly endless wave of enemy units. I tried to see if you could win this fight with decent micro, but I think the game will just keep spawning in more units until you lose the majority of your army.  Viracocha: The battle is lost! Soon the Chanca will reach Cuzco. We must abandon the city and escape to the mountains!  Cusi Yupanqui: It sickens my heart to see my father turning his back on his own people, but I refuse to give in! Cuzco shall never fall to the Chanca! You are then given an in-engine cutscene where the events of the intro cinematic play out: Viracocha and his son Urqu retreat and immediately resign, and Cusi Yupanqui and the two generals Vicaquirao and Apo Mayta take control of the defense of the city. All three named characters are present as hero units, but you only need to ensure that Cusi Yupanqui survives in order to complete the scenario.  Cuzco is a massive, fully constructed city, although it barely has any static defenses and is missing a lot of economic upgrades. The most notable thing is that as soon as you gain control of the rest of the city, the original Cuzco faction starts building a Wonder at the city limits. Your goal for this mission is to defend the Wonder as it is built and runs out the clock on a Wonder victory. Additionally, you get an achievement for doing this without the construction of any walls or gates.   Cusi Yupanqui: Our allies, the Cana and Canchi, will supply us with resources, so long as we protect them from the Chanca. Cana and Canchi are very useful allies to have, especially at the beginning when their tributes help float your developing economy. They're relatively competent at defending themselves too, although they will fall to the enemy factions eventually unless you invest in their defense or make a loud enough ruckus elsewhere to distract the enemies.   The two Chanca players are the primary threat in this scenario. They are constantly going to be raiding your base with a mix of Long Swordsmen, Crossbowmen, Skirmishers, Scorpions, and Battering Rams garrisoned with Eagle Scouts. The eastern player likes to attack your economy directly, while the western player likes to go after your allies, but both will seize on perceived weakness and go after any target, including the Temple of the Sun, if they think they can get away with it.   Anccu Hualloc has mostly the same army, but replaces most of the Long Swordsmen with Jaguar Warriors and Kamayuks, and throws some Trebuchets into the mix. He's much less concerned with raiding you and your allies and more about trying to finish you off. This means he attacks less often, but with larger forces, which can be dangerous but I generally found to be more manageable than the Chanca's constant raids.  Eventually, I get sick of Chanca and muster a force to destroy at least their eastern base.  Unfortunately, this just leaves me open to an attack by the western Chanca on the Castles near the Temple of the Sun and I have to start spamming Kamayuks to take down these Rams before they wreck the place.  But my main army is able to make some good progress through the external production facilities of the Eastern Chanca player.  Cusi Yupanqui: The Temple of the Sun has been rebuilt! Now we must defend it until the Chanca withdraw! Confession time: I thought that the game was going to tell me to go out and destroy the various factions now that the Temple of the Sun was complete. I wasn't expecting this to be a purely defensive mission.   Anccu Hualloc and the Western Chanca get perilously close to destroying the Castles I have stationed in Canchi and Cana territory and overrunning the towns, but again I am able to just spam Kamayuks to take out all of their siege and support the Castles in cleaning up the rest of the enemy troops.  And it turns out that there are just so many production facilities in the eastern base that I'm never going to wipe them out without destroying my army in the process. I give up the attack on the Eastern Chanca and retreat everything I have back towards the Temple of the Sun.  The Eastern Chanca start pouring forth in numbers towards my base, but they're too late. The Wonder timer hits zero and the scenario is complete. Mission 2 Ending Text "I was captivated by the words of the old man. When he had finished, I exclaimed: 'So, that is why this area is called Yawarpampa, the Field of Blood!' His eyes sparkled. 'Yes, the ground on which my hut stands today was watered by the blood of the Chanca. Cusi Yupanqui, with the help of his generals, had accomplished the impossible: Cuzco had been saved from an overwhelming superior force.' 'The name of Cusi Yupanqui soon fell into oblivion, but only because the people that he had saved from the Chanca invasion began to call their savior Pachacuti Inca Yupanqui, "he who overturns space and time." Now, there were also those who wished immediately to rid themselves of the victorious hero. His own family, driven by jealousy, began to conspire against him.'" So there were benefits to going on the offense against the Eastern Chanca base, in that it meant that I never had to worry about my economy getting raided for the back half of the game and could focus on funneling the rest of my opponents into well-fortified defensive positions. But that was 100% an accident and I did not play this as well as I should have. But I suppose if you win and manage to get the achievement in the process, you must be doing something right. It's a pretty fun, if tough, mission. There's a lot to keep track of, and unlike a lot of other scenarios you never hit that point where you feel like your victory is inevitable, at least until you can see that the enemies physically don't have enough time left to tear down the Temple of the Sun. Extra Slides Mission 2 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 2 - End Slide 1 Mission 2 - End Slide 2 Mission 2 - End Slide 3 Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jun 4, 2023 |
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Jun 4, 2023 15:54
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Yeah, any time an AI Ally is sloooowly building a wonder, at worst you'll have to wait out the Wonder Victory timer. Sometimes, you don't even have to wait for that, and the scenario'll just end as soon as the Wonder goes up. I don't think you ever have to go on the offensive after an Ally builds wonder.
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Jun 4, 2023 16:00
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My main criticism of the Pachacuti campaign is that there's zero civilization variety, it's Incas All The Time
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Jun 5, 2023 00:59
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Competitive Multiplayer Overview: The Incas Unique Unit: Kamayuk - infantry wielding a long spear that allows attacking at range and attack bonus against cavalry Unique Unit: Slinger - foot archer with a massive attack bonus against infantry Unique Techs: Andean Sling: Slingers +1 attack and removes the minimum range from Slingers and Skirmishers. Fabric Shields: Gives Eagle Warriors, Kamayuks, and Slingers +1/+2 armor Civ Bonuses: Military units cost -15/20/25/30% food in Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial Villagers benefit from Blacksmith infantry upgrades starting in the Castle Age. Houses support 10 population. Buildings cost -15% stone. Start with a free Llama. Competitive Rating: Low The Incas were recently buffed, so there's some ongoing experimentation to see how things shake out. At present, though, the Incas are still generally seen as bottom feeders. They're another civ with the problem that while they have a lot of nice bonuses, none of these bonuses are likely to be decisive in a typical competitive game. Saving food on military units is a neat idea, but the main food-intensive unit is the scout cavalry line, which the Incas lack as a Mesoamerican civ. Tougher villagers is a neat idea, but it doesn't kick in during the main window of vulnerability for villagers during the dark and feudal ages. Houses supporting more population is convenient, but the popularity of house walling means that you quite often aren't building houses for pop capacity past the feudal age. Slingers are one of those unique units that in theory are very strong, but let down by the fact that they're designed to prey on a kind of unit that's a rare sight in competitive multiplayer. Kamayuks are fine, but nothing to decide a game. The Inca tech tree is again fine, but not exceptional in any field. If the Incas have a niche in the competitive scene after their buff, it's probably going to be for their flexibility. Compared to the other Mesoamerican civs, the Incas have the most flexible unit access and tech tree, with the most well-rounded force they can choose from. Even the Inca navy is fully featured and viable until the Imperial Age, giving them more play on mixed maps than the other Mesoamericans. Still, there's nothing in the Inca arsenal and bonuses that can directly lead to a game-winning strategy, and so even post-buff the Incas are likely to be on the outside looking in on competitive civ drafts.
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Jun 5, 2023 01:16
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Its all subjective of course, but I think you're under-rating the Incas a bit here. They've got a very good competitive win rate at the moment, currently 6th best overall, and Hera, who won the recent King of the Desert tournament rates them very highly, particularly for open map games like Arabia.
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Jun 5, 2023 13:28
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Azran posted:My main criticism of the Pachacuti campaign is that there's zero civilization variety, it's Incas All The Time The game feels like it could certainly use another Andean civ (Chimu? Aymara?), and probably a new architecture set to go along with it. Hard to know what their identity would be though since its hard to come up with another civ with no cavalry, gunpowder or strong navy.
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Jun 5, 2023 17:41
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You could also go further up north and base something on, say, Cahokia.
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Jun 5, 2023 18:53
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CastleDallasia The Incas Unique Unit: Kamayuk - Spear Infantry with +1 range and anti-Cavalry bonus (Eagle Warrior excluded). The Inka empire's subjects were organized into taxpayer groups. These groups function as units in both drafted labor and military service. In peace or in war, the units were led by the kamayoq (or any of a variety of spellings), non-hereditary civil servants. The concept and appearance of the in-game Kamayuk is directly based on an image that Wikipedia used to cite when the Forgotten Empires mod was being brainstormed on an AoE2 forum:  I've seen people question the historical Inka's need for long spears. They were very real:  ...though one source I found suggests they may have been adopted from the Chanka, another Quechua-speaking people whose conquest by Pachakuti we are now playing in this LP, since the Chanka had long spears "repeatedly contrasted with shorter Inca weapons". The main debateable thing is whether the Inka empire "deserved" a unit that embodies the advantage of multi-meter spears, considering the more lasting historical impact of pikes in the European Infantry Revolution. We all know the answer: deserving or not, expansion packs are always hungry for new mechanical gimmicks. Side Note: One interesting fact about the Age series is that despite reviving ancient weaponry like Trebuchet and Chu Ko Nu/Zhuge Nu and elevating them into pop culture stardom, the series has had less memetic luck with influencing game terminology. In AoE1 and 2, Ensemble referred to close-quarter combat as "hand-to-hand"; by AoE3, they had yielded to "melee", popularized by Blizzard, though said game still refers to melee units as Hand Infantry and Hand Cavalry. The serious military terminology, on the other hand, is "shock" or French choc ("ranged and melee" is "fire and shock", or feu et choc), in the word's original sense of "violent encounter". Another example is "Standard Game", The Conquerors' term for player vs. computer, which gave way to "Skirmish", an odd word choice from Red Alert 1. Unique Unit: Slinger - Foot Archer with high anti-Infantry bonus. The concept of this unit is extremely simple: it's the non-Gunpowder counterpart of the Hand Cannoneer, a predecessor to Return of Rome's Dromon. (This does make it the first UU that's a full replacement of an existing unit, a type of UU that's still rare in AoE2DE.) Mirroring firearms' simplicity of training in real history, if not their damage potential, the role of Hand Cannoneers in the AoE2 meta is to provide a quick power spike in the early Imperial Age. Lacking further upgrades or more useful bonuses, they will be eventually outstripped by the Knight and Archer lines, as these units' expensive upgrades come online. The Slinger is the same function, but available even faster due to not needing Chemistry to unlock.  In addition to unlocking Gunpowder units, Chemistry increases all ranged damage by +1, indicated by putting arrows on fire. The 2023 April upgrade has added fiery slings to show it has the same effect on Slingers. (To be cont'd...) cuc fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 21:37
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https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/813780/view/3689057232250704052 We'll see if things change in the future, but as of right now, the additional campaigns for Return of Rome have been announced. In addition to the already expected Ascent of Egypt tutorial campaign and The First Punic War, we're getting... *reads notes* Glory of Greece and Voice of Babylon. Well, I guess those are sufficiently distinct from the new Pyrrhus of Epirus (Macedonians) and Sargon of Akkad (Sumerians) campaigns, but I was still hoping that we'd get something a little bit further away. C'est la democracy! EDIT: I did forget how many of these campaigns involved you being Romans, so about as diverse yet consistent a play sample as we were gonna get. Would've been nice to have Yamato, though. Jossar fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 00:04
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Jossar posted:https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/813780/view/3689057232250704052 Could've also done the demo campaign with the Hittites
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Jun 6, 2023 01:12
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Meanwhile, a guide is already up for porting scenarios yourself. It's not hassle-free, the recent AoE2DE build has incidentally made loading old map formats very crash-prone, and there are basic mechanics that simply can't translate over, but it is a start. https://aoe.heavengames.com/siegeworkshop/porting-maps-to-return-of-rome/ quote:Glory of Greece and Voice of Babylon.  Technowolf posted:Could've also done the demo campaign with the Hittites cuc fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 06:02
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Pachacuti - Part 3: War of Brothers Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Joey Jojo Mission 3 Starting Text "The moon had risen, but sleep was far from my mind. I hung on the words of the old man, who did not seem the least bit tired. It was as if the more he talked about Pachacuti, the livelier he became. 'I told you about the great battle of Cuzco,' he continued, 'but you must know that the glorious victory did not bring peace to the Inca. On the contrary, a civil war broke out, for the success of his son filled Pachacuti's father with envy.' 'Viracocha still wished for his son Urqu to become king of the Inca, although everyone could see that Pachacuti was far more capable. After all, it was he who defended Cuzco, the holy city, while Urqu had fled into the mountains along with Viracocha.' 'Although Viracocha had grown old and died a bitter man shortly thereafter, Urqu did not intend to yield. He entrenched himself in Calas, a mountain fortress, and proclaimed himself Sapa Inca, the supreme ruler.' 'Of course, the thought of coming to terms with his treacherous brother did not once cross Pachacuti's mind. Gathering his warriors, he led them to Calas to eliminate Urqu once and for all.'"  Pachacuti: My despicable brother hides in his mountain fortress instead of facing me like a warrior. His cowardice will not allow him to escape his fate! You start this scenario with a fairly large army, including the two generals from the last scenario, and Pachacuti replacing Cusi Yupanqui.  Down the road are a number of hostile troops generally aligned with Urqu, although not under his direct control.    Beyond the Hostile Incan forces are a number of camps of military and civilian units, along with production facilities, that will all turn themselves over to you once they see Pachacuti. Notably, you can't build most buildings (including a Town Center and military productions facilities), so you will be reliant on what you capture. This establishes the main gameplay loop: defeat enemy soldiers to gain access to more units and a larger economy until you can steamroll the town under Urqu's direct control near the end of the map.  In addition to the Hostile Incan forces, there are also a number of Chanca camps lying around, protected by their own small armies and Towers. Destroy the tents and houses in these camps to gain additional resources. The special highlights of the rest of this phase of the mission include:  - Getting a Monastery, which allows your troops to have additional sustainability as they fight through the map.  - A couple of Hostile Inca soldiers attacking my tents and managing to kill a villager or two. Apart from that, they never pose any serious threat on offense.  - A pen containing two relics, which solves at least some of the problem with gold generation on this map given the limited number of villagers available.   - This bridge, which initially looks like it isn't crossable, but the shallows are just long enough to allow for access to this spot, which contains the map's only friendly Castle.  - Chanca engaging in a massive llama breeding operation, seriously, there's like 15-16 llamas in there.  - A very strangely placed Dock.  Eagle Warrior: We have located a Chanca siege workshop! Let us destroy it and take possession of their siege machines! (after destroying the Siege Workshop) We have captured the siege engines! The exploration comes to an end once you cross over to the river to reach this heavily guarded Chanca Siege Workshop. Destroy it and you not only gain the siege weapons in question, but you also gain the ability to build Siege Workshops.  Urqu: It is the army of my vengeful brother! I must hide!  Just beyond the last Chanca base is the city of Calas, which is Urqu's major stronghold. Conveniently enough, you also find a few Petards outside the city to help you out in breaking down its walls.   In addition to the forces of Calas, the Hostile Incas either continue to automatically spit out a few units every so often despite having resigned, or just have a decently sized garrison in the back of the city that joins the siege in waves. Urqu is hiding in his own Castle at the center of the city. Destroy it and kill him in order to win. Pachacuti: Urqu is dead! The disgraceful civil war of the Incas is finally over! Mission 3 Ending Text "The old man sneered as he described the end of Urqu, who was slain in battle. 'For the Inca, the end of Urqu was a blessing,' he told me, 'for it left Pachacuti the undisputed ruler, and it showed that he was not only a valiant warlord but also a prudent king.' 'Having refurnished the Temple of the Sun, he turned to rebuilding the entire city of Cuzco. He also built fortresses, palaces, roads and temples throughout the country. In addition, he issued wise decrees beyond count and led his kingdom into a golden age.' 'I still believe that the people were right to hail Pachacuti as 'Son of the Sun,' for he had once again led the Incas out of the darkness.'" The joy of this mission is found in the exploration, there's so many neat things hiding away in dark little corners of the map, and the game really encourages you to find them all. The siege itself stymied me for a bit, but I was also screwing around, and once I broke out the Rams in larger numbers Calas fell easily enough. Extra Slides Mission 3 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 3 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 3 - End Slide 1 Mission 3 - End Slide 2 Mission 3 - End Slide 3
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Jun 7, 2023 01:46
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anilEhilated posted:You could also go further up north and base something on, say, Cahokia. This has been suggested a lot, and it would be cool to see something for North America above Mexico, but I have such a hard time envisioning what a Cahokian civilization could really entail that wouldn't just end up being invented wholesale by the devs (Vietnam flashbacks to what they did with the Mayans in the Conquerors), things like unique units, bonuses and technologies. Like from what I've read up on them, almost everything we know seems to come from archaeology, they didn't leave behind the kinds of records that the Andean and Mesoamerican civilizations did, though I don't know if oral histories offer much insight into their society and history but it doesn't seem to come up much. They were also highly isolated from the other civs in this game and its my understanding that Cahokia was already long abandoned by the time of European exploration.
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Jun 7, 2023 13:49
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I think the biggest problem with that kind of thing is that AoE2 is very firmly based on a particular model of warfare, technological advancement, and urban development that's rooted in Europe and the Middle East, and could be roughly translated to east Asia. Translating native American civilizations to this model is not easy without a radical overhaul of the game, I feel, and I think that's always going to limit the game in regards to what civilizations might be added.
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Jun 7, 2023 13:53
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Would pay for a DLC where I can see Yaghan bombard cannons and Botocudo champions against Inuit paladins and Haida dromons.
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Jun 7, 2023 13:56
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In addition to everything else it'd probably look very odd for Native American civs to share an architecture set. Here's a cool bunch of drawings of what a Mississippian architecture set could look like, but I doubt something like that would look very good for, say, the Puebloans or the Haudenosaunee. The Incas already look awkard enough with Mesoamerican buildings.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:23
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YaketySass posted:The Incas already look awkard enough with Mesoamerican buildings. AoE3DE has the opposite problem where they made tons of new assets for the African expansion, but reused American terrain, fauna and flora when it came to the Knights of the Mediterranean DLC. So their Europe looks exactly the same as their North America, which is already an aesthetic downgrade from the original AoE3. cuc fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jun 8, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 20:44
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cuc posted:which is already an aesthetic downgrade from the original AoE3. Absolutely not true at all.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:08
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Pachacuti - Part 4: The Falcon's Tent Mission 4 Starting Text The stories of Pachacuti and his followers fascinated me, so it filled me with joy when my host laid down his mug and continued. Clearly, his story was far from over. 'Pachacuti knew that the Inca would never live in peace if their greatest rivals, the Chanca, remained powerful. In any case, he had a score to settle with Anccu Hualloc, who had nearly succeeded in conquering Cuzco.' 'Pachacuti sent his troops north to occupy Waman Karpa, 'the Falcon's Tent,' capital of the Chanca. Once again, he tasked Vicaquirao and Apo Mayta, who remained at his side during the civil war, with the command of the army. Fueled by panic, the Chanca began to organize their defense, for it was now their turn to be hunted. The winds had shifted.'  Vicaquirao: We have forced our way deep into the land of the Chanca. Waman Karpa, the enemy capital, is now within our reach. We will need to conquer it to end this war once and for all!   This mission begins with two bases, each under control of one of Pachacuti's generals. The only notable thing here is that game gives you a few free pavilions that you can build up for housing, although in practice it's more efficient to just delete them and build a bunch of houses instead. While there are some raiding parties from the enemy forces, particularly Abancay, otherwise there's not too much pressure and you should feel free to build up.  Eagle Warrior: Our 'old friend' Anccu Hualloc still commands the Chanca army. Killing him will severely damage the morale of our opponents! (after a few seconds) Auxiliary forces of the Colla have arrived! As soon as we give them the signal to attack, they will set their army in motion. Your first objective of real consequence is to finish off Anccu Hualloc, who has a base in the center of the map, once and for all. You might as well, since the map is built around it being very difficult for the two halves of your army to meet up until you do so.  Colla Soldier: Attack! Once I'm ready, I bring my troops over to the Colla and get them to start moving. Unlike in a number of similar cases, you do not gain control of the Colla forces, they remain their own independent army.    Chanca Soldier: The Inca have slain our beloved general! We are doomed! I primarily use the Colla as a distraction/support while my main army breaks through and kills Anccu Hualloc himself. This causes the rest of the Chanca army to lose hope in their cause and resign, freeing up the center of the map for you to build a forward base.  Priest: Give us proof of your fervor and we will join you! (after handing over eight Villagers) You have convinced us! From now on, we will support your cause. Meanwhile, there's an optional side-quest over on the eastern side of the map. Give these Priests eight villagers to devote to service in their Monastery and they will give you nine Priest units and two Relics. These Priest units can't do anything but heal, but they do so much more efficiently than normal Monks, and also self heal.    Eagle Warrior: Abancay is no more! Only a heap of smoldering rubble remains of this once proud city! From this point onwards, there's two ways to approach the mission. Either destroy Andahuaylas in the west or destroy Abancay by attacking to the north/from the east. Andahuaylas is the weaker of the two opponents, especially if you never build a navy (which they react with extra hostility towards), but Waman Karpa's western entrance is better defended. In this case, I went for Abancay, but it could go either way.   From that point onwards, it's just about marching on to Waman Karpa and tearing it down with siege weapons. Andahuaylas tried to send in some units to support their ally, but arrived far too late, as I had already wrecked most of the city and was in the process of finishing off the last two Castles. Eagle Warrior: All of the castles in Waman Karpa lie in ruin! The city is ours! Mission 4 Ending Text "'At that time, it was common for Chanca warriors to intimidate their enemies by using cups fashioned from the skulls of prisoners to drink the blood of the slain. Even so, when the victorious Inca troops entered Waman Karpa, the remaining defenders had no choice but to surrender.' 'Everyone thought that Pachacuti would take bloody revenge on the Chanca,' the old man explained, 'but Pachacuti instead chose mercy and integrated the surviving warriors of the Chanca into his army. Astonishingly enough, they became loyal followers and acknowledged the Inca king as their new overlord.' 'The domain of the Inca was now greater than ever. Pachacuti's superiority had become too overwhelming and his armies too effective, leaving no tribes who could contend with the Inca - except for the Kingdom of Chimor, which was located near the coast to the west.'" I don't think there's one thing in particular about this scenario that stood out to me, so much as my noticing how each of the individual little bits was well executed. Think I'm gonna have some more to say about that next time when the Pachacuti campaign wraps up. Extra Slides Mission 4 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 4 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 4 - End Slide 1 Mission 4 - End Slide 2 Mission 4 - End Slide 3 Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 8, 2023 |
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Jun 8, 2023 01:43
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Pachacuti - Part 5: Like Father, Like Son Mission 5 Starting Text "'You are still quite young, my friend,' the old man observed, smiling amicably, 'but look at me. At some point your hair will turn gray just like mine, and your hands will become wrinkled as well. A king will also grow old one day, even if he is the 'Son of the Sun'. Pachacuti knew that he needed a capable successor to sustain the state that he had built. There was only one man who could be considered: his own son, Topa Yupanqui. Topa Yupanqui seemed to have inherited his father's military skills. He already bore the title 'Apukispay,' leader of the imperial troops. To test his mettle, Pachacuti gave his son the command of the campaign against the Chimor Empire. The Chimú were not to be underestimated. On the coast, they had built a magnificent city called Chan-Chan, whose splendor rivaled that of Cuzco itself. Massive canal systems fed the city with fresh water, and magnificent pyramids adorned the city. Chimor was quite wealthy due to the droves of slaves harvesting gold from the abundant sources nearby. The discipline of its military was the stuff of legend. The people of Cuzco anxiously awaited the outcome of the campaign against the remote coastal kingdom. Would Topa Yupanqui succeed in completing the work of his father and bring the expansion of the Inca to a dignified conclusion?'"  Eagle Warrior: My general! We asked the inhabitants of Pachacamac for hospitality, but they refused to grant us entry into the city! Topa Yupanqui: The leaders of Pachacamac are fools to think that they can oppose the Inca. We will see to it that they get what they deserve! The final scenario begins with a very large army with a single hero, Topa Yupanqui, and no base. Your goal is to beat up this nearby city until they capitulate and give you one.  Pachacamac has a small army behind a set of fortifications guarding the route to the main city. And a ton of Plumed Archers (Mayan Unique Unit, Archer with lower range and attack, but higher movement speed and base HP). A lot of these scenarios have the enemies sprinkle in units from the other Mesoamerican civs to make up for the fact that you're only facing Incas, but these guys had so many Plumed Archers that I might as well have been facing Mayans that never heard that Obsidian Arrows got patched out of the game.    Pachacamac: We surrender! Spare us! Topa Yupanqui: Now that we have established a foothold, we can continue our attacks on the Kingdom of Chimor! After reaching Pachacamac proper, the goal is to break in and rush down four Chieftain hero units dwelling in the city as fast as possible. Do so, and the city is yours.  Eagle Warrior: Chan Chan lies in the middle of a desert. The inhabitants only survive because they draw fresh water from cisterns that lie outside of the city. Topa Yupanqui: I see! If we can take control of those cisterns, we will greatly weaken the defenders of Chan Chan!  Eagle Warrior: Chan Chan has become wealthy through trade. We should plunder its port to wrest valuable resources from the defenders! The game then presents you with two optional objectives on the way to Chan Chan. The cistern objective isn't worth it - the three bases are well defended enough such that if you're able to take them, you're strong enough to bulldoze the main city and win the mission anyway. The market objective, on the other hand, is worth it. Mostly because unless you want to leave an enemy directly behind you when you attack Chan Chan, you need to destroy the Chimú Navy anyway, so why not take the opportunity to grab a few extra resources?  The Chimú Navy tries to send some ships to destroy my Docks, but I'm content to keep a few ships on home defense and otherwise let them control the water until I've finished off their home base for good.    The direct path into the Chimú Navy's base is a little bit further north, but fortunately, while scouting for additional gold piles, I found this area that serves as a back door to their main production facilities, as long as you're willing to tear down a few trees with Trebuchets/Onagers. The Chimú Army and Navy simultaneously attack from the east and the west, respectively, but their attacks are relatively small and easily repulsed.   Eagle Warrior: We have ransacked the harbor of Chan Chan! Either way you go, the end result will be the same - the Chimú Navy is defeated and you gain additional materials and a staging platform for the assault on Chan Chan.   Chimú Soldier: The Inca have breached our walls! Chan Chan has a formidable set of static defenses, but keep hammering away with Trebuchets and they eventually crumble, allowing your army into the city which further accelerates the enemy's downward spiral.  Topa Yupanqui: The Chimú are defeated! No one will dare to stand in the way of the Inca ever again. The second row of castles on the inside of the city directly plugs a hole in the walls that are guarding the main pyramid of Chan Chan. Send your army through, and once 15 soldiers reach the foot of the pyramid, the scenario and the campaign are complete. Mission 5 Ending Text "The old man was silent for some time, but then addressed me: 'You have surely heard of the Tawantinsuyu, the realm of the four parts? That is what we call our empire, since Topa Yupanqui succeeded in subjugating the Chimú.' The lands to the north, south, east and west had finally been conquered, and the Inca now dominated the entire region--mountain and valley.' Knowing that his son was of equal wisdom and virtue, Pachacuti could die without regret. Now you know the entire story - the story of the Inca.' "I hesitated for a moment before asking the old man: 'You have told me much indeed, but what was the fate of the two generals, Vicaquirao and Apo Mayta? Surely their story does not end there!'" "The old man beamed at me and laughed before giving his answer. 'Well, Vicaquirao gave his life in battle and died the most honorable death imaginable." "Apo Mayta was not quite as favored by fortune, however. It is said that, having grown older than the hills themselves, he now lives a life of solitude in a stone hut. From time to time, you might find him telling inquisitive travelers tales of bygone times that are so fantastic that they seem almost difficult to believe.'"" I'm torn on the cisterns - they take up so much real estate on the map for something that's ultimately not really important, but making them a mandatory part of the scenario would have caused this mission to drag on and on. It feels like they should have been cut, but it's a nice option for if you're playing on Hard and find Chan Chan to be attacking you too much or too tough of a nut to crack. Otherwise it's a satisfying end to the campaign. Overall, I quite liked the Pachacuti campaign: everything was well executed and enjoyable on a moment to moment basis. But also upon reflection, I couldn't really point to anything that stood out to me except for Field of Blood? It's the Summer Action Blockbuster of AoE2 campaigns: where you walk into the theater, 120 minutes later you walk out going "yeah, that was fun," and then never really think about again. That might just be because with the end of The Conquerors we're beyond the "iconic" AoE2 campaigns from twenty years ago, but on the other hand a lot of the Alaric scenarios seemed very distinctive. Extra Slides Mission 5 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 5 - End Slide 1 Mission 5 - End Slide 2 Mission 5 - End Slide 3 Mission 5 - End Slide 4 Mission 5 - End Slide 5 Mission 5 - End Slide 6 Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 03:06
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Campaign Vote #11 A. Sforza - Italians B. Vlad Dracula - Turks/Magyars/Slavs C. Bari - Byzantines D. Prithviraj - Gurjaras E. Battles of the Forgotten - Persians/Mayans/Vikings/Magyars/Chinese/Japanese/Britons/Turks Voting lasts for 24 Hours from the time of this post. In the event of a tie, I will act as the tiebreaking vote between the two tied options. Please bold your vote in order for it to be counted, as well as noting if you are changing your vote from something else.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:08
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