TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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The Deleter: May 22, 2010

Splicer posted:

Ok fancy pants, are there any RPGs set in an alternate Victorian England or Victorian England-esque setting with weird science and steampunk bullshit where the aristocracy and new-money robber barons are portrayed as scum and the PCs are loving up their poo poo?

Everyone's suggested Blades at this point so I'm going to vaguely wave my arms in their direction.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 15:39

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# ? May 28, 2024 04:46

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

The Hammer and the Stake is revolutionaries going after Vampiric Aristocracy

# ? Jun 1, 2023 16:18

PharmerBoy: Jul 21, 2008

Bookmarking that one, thank you.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 16:49

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I think that at this point, most games set in the late 19th century are more circumspect about class and imperialism than they were during Peak Steampunk in, what, the late 00s? The Pinnacle edition of Space: 1889 is very much not hooray for the British Empire.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 17:13

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Someone on youtube uploaded this pretty recently, it's a news report about dnd from the very early 1980s and shows some people playing DnD (in formal wear, lol) but the game looks both very fun and it's also very nice to see that "uhh whatever minis works" was always a thing, having Not! Darth Vader show up was a nice touch. I liked that despite playing some weird-rear end version of DnD that looks more like a modular tiles dungeon crawler.

What edition of DnD is that, by the way? I have Moldvay Basic and the black "Easy to Master Dungeons and Dragons Game!" but that box is way too small for it.

Honestly. Gaming in formal wear, we should bring it back and uh, make it a thing since this was clearly a bunch of dorks who dressed up nice for their tv interview lol

# ? Jun 1, 2023 17:19

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

Halloween Jack posted:

The Pinnacle edition of Space: 1889 is very much not hooray for the British Empire.

How about the recent kickstarter?

# ? Jun 1, 2023 17:20

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I didn't even know they were doing a new Kickstarter.

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

What edition of DnD is that, by the way? I have Moldvay Basic and the black "Easy to Master Dungeons and Dragons Game!" but that box is way too small for it.

That's the '77 Holmes set.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 17:25

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

Halloween Jack posted:

I didn't even know they were doing a new Kickstarter.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strangeowlgames/space-1889-after-5e-empyrean-steampunk-rpg

That's all I know about it.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 17:30

joylessdivision: Jun 15, 2013

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Someone on youtube uploaded this pretty recently, it's a news report about dnd from the very early 1980s and shows some people playing DnD (in formal wear, lol) but the game looks both very fun and it's also very nice to see that "uhh whatever minis works" was always a thing, having Not! Darth Vader show up was a nice touch. I liked that despite playing some weird-rear end version of DnD that looks more like a modular tiles dungeon crawler.

What edition of DnD is that, by the way? I have Moldvay Basic and the black "Easy to Master Dungeons and Dragons Game!" but that box is way too small for it.

Honestly. Gaming in formal wear, we should bring it back and uh, make it a thing since this was clearly a bunch of dorks who dressed up nice for their tv interview lol

That's how we get Vampire LARP. Do you want Vampire LARPers?!

# ? Jun 1, 2023 17:57

Covermeinsunshine: Sep 15, 2021

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

The Hammer and the Stake is revolutionaries going after Vampiric Aristocracy

There is also Brinkwood: Blood of the tyrants with this premise

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:04

Loxbourne: Apr 6, 2011; Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Halloween Jack posted:

I think that at this point, most games set in the late 19th century are more circumspect about class and imperialism than they were during Peak Steampunk in, what, the late 00s? The Pinnacle edition of Space: 1889 is very much not hooray for the British Empire.

The Clockwork Publishing version is unfortunately very much hooray for the CSA, however. Watch out for that, it's a nasty surprise in the corebook.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:36

Snorb: Nov 19, 2010

Loxbourne posted:

The Clockwork Publishing version is unfortunately very much hooray for the CSA, however. Watch out for that, it's a nasty surprise in the corebook.

Well, gently caress. I wish I knew that before I backed the drat thing.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:44

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

The Deleter posted:

The inherent part of gaslight fantasy is getting to be the rich smart guy who can use the science-magic to do whatever. If it had any of the depictions Splicer wanted it wouldn't be gaslight fantasy.

That's why it's called gaslighting.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:01

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Someone on youtube uploaded this pretty recently, it's a news report about dnd from the very early 1980s and shows some people playing DnD (in formal wear, lol) but the game looks both very fun and it's also very nice to see that "uhh whatever minis works" was always a thing, having Not! Darth Vader show up was a nice touch. I liked that despite playing some weird-rear end version of DnD that looks more like a modular tiles dungeon crawler.

What edition of DnD is that, by the way? I have Moldvay Basic and the black "Easy to Master Dungeons and Dragons Game!" but that box is way too small for it.

Honestly. Gaming in formal wear, we should bring it back and uh, make it a thing since this was clearly a bunch of dorks who dressed up nice for their tv interview lol

I had those floor tiles back when I was a kid! Actually, I thought I still had them but this made me go look and I guess not, any more

I think they were made by Games Workshop, back when they made D&D stuff. Next time I run an old-school dungeon, I think i'll find a pdf of the tiles and use them.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:12

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

The original Geomorphs...here's a sample of them...

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:40

Loxbourne: Apr 6, 2011; Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Snorb posted:

Well, gently caress. I wish I knew that before I backed the drat thing.

Clockwork Publishing aren't the people behind the Kickstarter. The KS version may not have this problem. Cross your fingers...

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:23

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

Covermeinsunshine posted:

There is also Brinkwood: Blood of the tyrants with this premise

I backed this but haven't gotten to play it, reading through it looked real good though.

# ? Jun 2, 2023 03:39

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Lol the poland flag

# ? Jun 3, 2023 12:08

Ominous Jazz: Jun 15, 2011; Big D is chillin' over here
Wasteland style

anyone who has a flag in their username is a weirdo

edit: except a palestinian flag obv

# ? Jun 3, 2023 17:36

GreenMetalSun: Oct 12, 2012

There are gay characters (well, a bisexual one is who comes immediately to mind) in the very first adventure path, which came out in 2007.

Like before the gays could get married, even.

# ? Jun 3, 2023 17:44

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

uh
try magical industrial revolution by skerples: A wizard decides to dunk on a loom by magically looming better and a venture capitalist shows up at his house the next day begging him to please make more magic looms. There are like six different ways magic is being industrialized and all of them will end up destroying the world if allowed to continue, from scrying being used to catch jack the ripper and then any criminal and then "traitors"
to pocket dimensions being used as cheap housing. and then housing. also did you know these pocket dimensions exist in the "outside" and there are things wanting to come in?

and more! its fun

Well this looks very much my jam. It seems to be a system agnostic OSR thing, how system agnostic is it for real? Can I slap it into something completely not d20 related?

# ? Jun 3, 2023 19:16

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

uh
try magical industrial revolution by skerples: A wizard decides to dunk on a loom by magically looming better and a venture capitalist shows up at his house the next day begging him to please make more magic looms. There are like six different ways magic is being industrialized and all of them will end up destroying the world if allowed to continue, from scrying being used to catch jack the ripper and then any criminal and then "traitors"
to pocket dimensions being used as cheap housing. and then housing. also did you know these pocket dimensions exist in the "outside" and there are things wanting to come in?

and more! its fun

So what I'm seeing here is a real growth opportunity for cheap, effective anti-scrying methodologies and some way to deal with or make friends with Those Outside so that we can easily construct abundant cheap housing. Our real bottleneck is going to be wizards. Maybe it's time we start a system of schools...

# ? Jun 3, 2023 22:16

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

E: Oops wrong thread

Plutonis fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 4, 2023

# ? Jun 4, 2023 00:25

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

The original Geomorphs...here's a sample of them...

I spent unhealthy amounts of time with those and the city geomorphs.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 01:47

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Splicer posted:

Well this looks very much my jam. It seems to be a system agnostic OSR thing, how system agnostic is it for real? Can I slap it into something completely not d20 related?

It's very much more of a toolbox for narrative opportunities. I think there's like one dungeon in it that isn't very good but otherwise it's a good setting. Lots of fun layout choices, silly tables like "How does the emperor greet you" and silly things like that.

I ran it with DCC, my homebrew system(d6 dice pool), and four whole sessions of WFRP

# ? Jun 4, 2023 04:02

Capfalcon: Apr 6, 2012; No Boots on the Ground,
Puny Mortals!

Splicer posted:

Well this looks very much my jam. It seems to be a system agnostic OSR thing, how system agnostic is it for real? Can I slap it into something completely not d20 related?

The actual mechanics are all written with the assumption you're doing something DND adjacent, but the ideas are strong enough to let you port to another system with ease.

The only setting issues I'd be concerned about are:
1. Assuming that discrete cash is something your game tracks
2. Assuming that spells are a form of equipment, not character growth.

I'm pretty sure there was a review in Fatal and Friends thread, as well.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 06:50

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Nuns with Guns posted:

Critical Role did a one-shot Tears of the Kingdom game session sponsored directly by Nintendo:

https://twitter.com/CriticalRole/status/1663621298843684864

I'm not bringing this up to argue about whether or not CritRole should be taking that money, but I do wonder what it means when Nintendo starts leveraging TTRPG content creators to promote their IPs. Possibly doing an interest check ahead of exploring more tabletop gaming licensing?

(But oh god I dread the idea of an Official Nintendo TTRPG game rolling out given how they protect their IPs the way an enraged swan protects its pond.)

So now that this episode is publicly available, anybody want to talk about the system, at least as it was presented to us? I've got some opinions about :

Rolling For Initiative - yeah, with a d20 and everything. Honestly? Fine for purpose, which is lining people up to take their turn in combat. Combat's the kind of situation where you want to make sure everybody gets a go, and having them take a number is a way to make sure that happens.
Noncombat Things - working on a Torchbearer style tempo where there's a minimal number of things you can do at camp and you have to budget between hunting/foraging/scavenging/cooking could be pretty nice, but I'm not 100% sure how locked down this actually was. I think it might overall be better if there was some more generic resource introduced to pad out cooking and crafting failures, like spend X many rations/supplies to make this intended product work.
The Stamina System - Stamina worked kind of like your action bar in combat, where you could spend single points to make a significant move or maneuver, or attack, or dodge. Enemies had an amount of Stamina, too. Attacks hit automatically without a dodge roll, and everybody got a chance to preload one dodge roll with bonuses to end out their own turn. This is the thing that sat the least well with me, because having variable per-character action budgets has never really gone well and is a bit of a nightmare to balance. But...
- actually making good use of your stamina bar is an important strategic part of the game, and part of a lot of enemies' deals is that they're dodgy little guys you can't connect with easily.
- maybe a little stamina is a good overall idea in terms of a resource you can spend to make contact with dodging enemies, or with a combat move that explicitly focuses on using your evasion or shield and paying stamina in order to get a counterattack?
- having enemies take their own turns isn't something PbtA is really built for, but enemies could be set up as being nimble or powerful so that a 7-9 in a straight-up fight positions you to get dodged (stamina to connect) or counterattacked
- similarly, rather than a bonus to the defense roll, Zelda already uses the harm - armor calculation for net harm.

I'm hoping we get to see the whole thing, it seemed like a pretty productive starting point.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 17:43

Farg: Nov 19, 2013

i like that the stats are power wisdom and courage. thats like in zelda

# ? Jun 4, 2023 17:57

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

It's probably 80 to 90% of the way to a good system it sounds like. Having to do initiatives is definitely not how PbtA is supposed to work, but for viewers and general bookkeeping its probably fine. Stamina is a solid system that just needs a bit of refinement to fully form but it probably needs a bit more time in the fire.

Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 4, 2023

# ? Jun 4, 2023 19:18

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Putting initiative into a pbta game seems like training wheels to get everyone to interact with the combat and I don't think that's too egregious.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 19:55

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Kurieg posted:

Putting initiative into a pbta game seems like training wheels to get everyone to interact with the combat and I don't think that's too egregious.

Yeah but PBTA it up a bit rather than a straight d20 roll.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 20:33

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

So it turns out the mods of the big Battletech subreddit were caught out deleting posts related to LGBT and Pride when Catalyst put out a Pride-related anthology, then people started digging up receipts that they've been doing this sort of thing for a while while letting things like Nazi paintjobs on minis slide. The whole subreddit got locked down because of "brigading," they started banning people, then Catalyst went and created a new Official Battletech subreddit in response.

There's a summary of events here. Some mod from the subreddit that kicked this off posted an "official statement" to try and clarify things but it's since been deleted.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 20:33

Kibner: Oct 21, 2008; Acguy Supremacy

Every post in that thread is deleted.

E: nvm, it's just reddit's lovely ui being lovely

Kibner fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jun 4, 2023

# ? Jun 4, 2023 20:56

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

--Battletech
--subreddit
--moderators

How could this have happened?

# ? Jun 4, 2023 21:07

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

The owner of the original subreddit came back and kicked out all the queerphobic mods it looks like.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 21:12

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Splicer posted:

Yeah but PBTA it up a bit rather than a straight d20 roll.

Well, the d20 worked because nobody was particularly trying to seize the initiative through planning (wisdom)/guile (courage)/audacity (power). If somebody went for that I'd bring out the PbtA move and put them unconditionally before/after everyone depending on how it turned out.

(of course there probably wasn't a Seize The Initiative move being presented to people so they knew they could try that)

# ? Jun 4, 2023 21:31

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Kai Tave posted:

So it turns out the mods of the big Battletech subreddit were caught out deleting posts related to LGBT and Pride when Catalyst put out a Pride-related anthology, then people started digging up receipts that they've been doing this sort of thing for a while while letting things like Nazi paintjobs on minis slide. The whole subreddit got locked down because of "brigading," they started banning people, then Catalyst went and created a new Official Battletech subreddit in response.

There's a summary of events here. Some mod from the subreddit that kicked this off posted an "official statement" to try and clarify things but it's since been deleted.

Battletech will need a few more years of cycling in new blood before this ends unfortunately. Everything Battletech's discord is run by a moderator who will ban you for saying *checks notes* Oh, it says here I was banned from it because I said Arch Warhammer was a racist, a homophobe and hated women, alongside with receipts. After he banned me he commented something to the effect of "those people are the REAL racists" which is funny, because "this guy sucks, and its bad that battletech's biggest content creator talks to him in friendly terms" is worse than literal videos of someone talking about how LGBT people are degenerate scum or just straight up using the n-word to describe races in warhammer. I mean, the guy who runs the EBT discord is an asian-american, and he's more disgusted with me making GBS threads on arch than arch saying the reason a Black librarybook had an Asian character was because "it probably had a ching-chong author". Real dave rubin energy from that guy

TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jun 4, 2023

# ? Jun 4, 2023 22:31

Tendales: Mar 9, 2012

You have to admit that it's funny when Catalyst comes out as the reasonable ones in the drama.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 22:42

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Tendales posted:

You have to admit that it's funny when Catalyst comes out as the reasonable ones in the drama.

I mean, they're seeing growth and would prefer to have control of messaging coming forward. Which is good. Catalyst is still catalyst though

# ? Jun 4, 2023 23:29

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# ? May 28, 2024 04:46

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Most of my knowledge of Catalyst's dysfunction as a company centers around things like embezzlement, stiffing freelancers, and poor management, not so much bigotry, so this might be an instance where they are the reasonable ones for once.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 00:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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