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Weka posted:How so? Cars, their roads, and parking lots take up a lot of space. That forces prices of space to go up higher and higher. Which means that only rich people can have business. Local stores went out of business first, then malls are going out of business because they emulate that local business / main-street model, and walmarts and targets are sort of surviving, at least until amazon crushes them or they become amazon-ish. The prices of the tools are higher than big box stores (the episode aired in1999). That higher prices was an unspoken secret tax on the customers to keep the store open, so they have a "Third Place." A third place is a spot where people can gather, hang out, and meet people. The hardware store is a cafe in disguised. City nerd - cafe culture https://youtu.be/7BRvk-_wM6U?t=389
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Jun 4, 2023 04:17
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Blackhawk posted:Driving home from work yesterday and I saw a car upside down on its roof in the middle of the street, and this wasn't a highway or anything it was a small 50 kph suburban street with parking along both sides. It was raining too, I have no idea how much you'd have to gently caress up to flip a car on a flat low-speed suburban street but I'm going to have to assume they were going way faster than 50 kph... lol saw a car on its side on a 20mph mountain road this january and my best bet in that case was they crawled up the side of the barrier to turn themselves over but its like - you should be driving carefully on those roads anyway so what the gently caress lmao. It was in a really popular skiing/snowboarding/sledding etc kind of area so any sort of inattentive driving could easily result in someone dead.
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Jun 4, 2023 04:31
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Weka posted:Yes, sure, I agree that it is easy enough to transport people between cities and rural towns. I am talking about transporting people from those towns to the place that work takes place, agriculture, horticulture, tree farming, this sort of thing. The more the countryside is centralized into these towns, the more this transportation gap tends to increase. On say a larger vegetable growing business where there might be a high concentration of labour this can be easily solved with buses etc. But for something like tree work or grain production with it's tiny concentration of workers I don't see how, especially in light of the short length of time workers will often be at each site for. Does that require car culture and a bunch of infrastructure though or a pick up taking some workers down a dirt road?
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Jun 4, 2023 04:32
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:Cars, their roads, and parking lots take up a lot of space. That forces prices of space to go up higher and higher. Which means that only rich people can have business. Thanks for the response. It's a neat theory but I don't think it's supported by the evidence. We're probably going to have to go outside the USA for data to find out what happens when car use decreases, so here's the Chinese numbers I posted earlier. Weka posted:Beijing If you compare these figures to the following graph you can see the peak of car use was around 2004, which is also around the time the Beijing and Shanghai commercial property markets began to take off. Over that time period where those markets have increased over 4 fold, the American market has roughly doubled. If I were to guess I would say good alternative transportation options also apply upward pressure on real estate owing to a building being worth more if people can access it easier.   If anybody has anything more evidence based to offer on this I would love to have a look.
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Jun 4, 2023 05:10
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Ardennes posted:Does that require car culture and a bunch of infrastructure though or a pick up taking some workers down a dirt road? Here's the post I made about it originally. Weka posted:Maybe it's just the anglo car disease speaking (automobile invested dumbass syndrome) but I can't imagine them fully going away anywhere rural. They might be shared or dual purpose vehicles like vans and light trucks but I can't see a solution beyond vehicles for single digits of people.
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Jun 4, 2023 05:15
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Arguably, better transit would increase property prices by allowing more relative density and economic activity in a localized area. The problem with car culture is that is simply inefficient and has a deceptively high "load" in terms of having to deal with sprawl and maintenance versus density coupled with public transit.
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Jun 4, 2023 05:15
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actionjackson posted:the guy who used to have an accord and bought a porsche carrera S (which is like 120k new) has a "bmw m3 performance" in his driveway lol my brother bought one of these last year and while I still say death to cars, holy poo poo if you can get it on a track. it literally goes 100 to 150 faster than mine does 0 to 60. It's terrifying to drive and I can't believe we let people do it on public roads e: someone backed into it in a parking lot like a week after he bought it and I'm fairly sure it was only his procrastination in getting a FL drivers license (which he needed to get his carry permit) that saved the man's life 
go for a stroll has issued a correction as of 05:47 on Jun 4, 2023 |
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Jun 4, 2023 05:36
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Ardennes posted:Arguably, better transit would increase property prices by allowing more relative density and economic activity in a localized area. The problem with car culture is that is simply inefficient and has a deceptively high "load" in terms of having to deal with sprawl and maintenance versus density coupled with public transit. My understanding is that personal transportation sized vehicles do a negligible amount of damage compared to much larger vehicles. So it's only arterial roots that will have lower maintenance if we reduce the ubiquity of cars. Although I guess efficiency points for the size of freight trucks might look different if they're self driving and powered by sodium batteries. And please, before someone says trains, I'm obviously talking about the last leg of the journey. quote:“The damage due to cars, for practical purposes, when we are designing pavements, is basically zero. It’s not actually zero, but it’s so much smaller -- orders of magnitude smaller -- that we don’t even bother with them,” said Karim Chatti, a civil engineer from Michigan State University
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Jun 4, 2023 06:01
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Weka posted:My understanding is that personal transportation sized vehicles do a negligible amount of damage compared to much larger vehicles. So it's only arterial roots that will have lower maintenance if we reduce the ubiquity of cars. Although I guess efficiency points for the size of freight trucks might look different if they're self driving and powered by sodium batteries. I believe they were referring to the fact that the ubiquity of personal transit vehicles causes sprawl to be a more optimal way to add new development, which results in orders of magnitude new road miles added, and even if individual cars cause negligible damage to that new road, the fact that you have so much more road and weathering effects and you have to add new sewer lines, utility lines, etc. under those roads results in ultimately it costing more in maintenance than if you were to develop more densely.
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Jun 4, 2023 06:08
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dont really care what you do rurally. perhaps designing cities around the idea of one car per person is a bad idea though. well cheers
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Jun 4, 2023 07:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Wxcafe/status/1664695179511582729?t=VXWmuQn6oOvqGaKwioaKYw&s=19 that looks like a carr imho
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Jun 4, 2023 08:01
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fermun posted:I believe they were referring to the fact that the ubiquity of personal transit vehicles causes sprawl to be a more optimal way to add new development, which results in orders of magnitude new road miles added, and even if individual cars cause negligible damage to that new road, the fact that you have so much more road and weathering effects and you have to add new sewer lines, utility lines, etc. under those roads results in ultimately it costing more in maintenance than if you were to develop more densely. Yeah that's all very valid.
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Jun 4, 2023 10:21
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Sphyre posted:dont really care what you do rurally. perhaps designing cities around the idea of one car per person is a bad idea though. well cheers Sadly over 50 million Americans do not have a car. Their are children forced to debase themselves by having their parents drive them places. Homeless people with no car to sleep in. Inner city dwellers who cannot afford the garaging. It's a travesty.
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Jun 4, 2023 10:25
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Weka posted:My understanding is that personal transportation sized vehicles do a negligible amount of damage compared to much larger vehicles. So it's only arterial roots that will have lower maintenance if we reduce the ubiquity of cars. Although I guess efficiency points for the size of freight trucks might look different if they're self driving and powered by sodium batteries. In a lot of climates roads are just going to get pretty hosed pretty quickly regardless of how many people are driving on them anyway. The idea that the number of cars isn't affecting the cost of maintaining the road system just makes no sense, and that's before considering all the other negative effects of cars, like creating suburban sprawl which is extremely inefficient and costly as other people have explained. mystes has issued a correction as of 13:54 on Jun 4, 2023 |
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Jun 4, 2023 13:51
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actionjackson posted:the guy who used to have an accord and bought a porsche carrera S (which is like 120k new) has a "bmw m3 performance" in his driveway lol truly the ugliest grill ever to exist, pig ganon lol
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Jun 4, 2023 14:01
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Not even close cuz it's not a truck
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Jun 4, 2023 14:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Wxcafe/status/1664695179511582729?t=VXWmuQn6oOvqGaKwioaKYw&s=19
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Jun 4, 2023 14:34
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Homeless Friend posted:truly the ugliest grill ever to exist, pig ganon lol They don’t make monitors like they used to
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Jun 4, 2023 14:37
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The road wear formula is ([vehicle weight] / [axels])^4. The solution to road wear is thousands of smaller axels.
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Jun 4, 2023 15:33
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jfc get rid of all these cars weka wtf are you talking about
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Jun 4, 2023 15:40
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If you want to argue that emergency vehicles, taxis, trucks, and maybe some rural transportation needs to exist I really don’t see a problem with it. Japan has those mini trucks that seem to do a decent job. That said, it really doesn’t have anything to do with car culture or sprawl and how disastrous inefficient it is.
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Jun 4, 2023 16:09
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Ardennes posted:Japan has those mini trucks that seem to do a decent job. https://twitter.com/coolbutstinky/status/1663287478181134336
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Jun 4, 2023 17:02
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Weka posted:Thanks for the response. It's a neat theory but I don't think it's supported by the evidence. We're probably going to have to go outside the USA for data to find out what happens when car use decreases, so here's the Chinese numbers I posted earlier. So your argument is the buses, trains and walkable cities make buildings worth more because the buses, trains and wakable cities, allow to easier access to the building. Beijing had a population growth slow down around 2003 and then a bigger slow down 2010. So the cost of living there is going up because like Vancouver in Canada richer people are able to price everybody else out https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/20464/beijing/population Shanghai also had a slow down in population change in 2001 https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/20656/shanghai/population Also that whole thing where the car allow people to spread out and makes the cost of roads, plumbing and electrical too expensive to up keep, so maybe that suburb home improvement takes place in is in a dying county around detroit 
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Jun 4, 2023 17:21
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what are pneumatic wheels
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Jun 4, 2023 17:40
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good thing Real Men are standing by to provide important context 
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Jun 4, 2023 17:52
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A MIRACLE posted:what are pneumatic wheels Them what's got air in them. I assume this page of McMaster's catalogue hasn't been updated since 1885.
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Jun 4, 2023 17:53
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can't you not drive the Kei trucks on freeways? or some other restriction
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Jun 4, 2023 18:03
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Holy poo poo, just found out in 2010 Bijing china had a traffic jam that lasted for 10 days https://autojosh.com/chinas-100-km-mother-of-traffic-jam-lasted-for-10-days-got-10000-cars-stuck/ https://www.thoughtco.com/chinas-traffic-troubles-687418 It's "one more lane bro" because people want to show off that they can buy a car.
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Jun 4, 2023 18:17
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Homeless Friend posted:truly the ugliest grill ever to exist, pig ganon lol dunno, the i5 m60 has this abortion:  I think the rectangle is a little lcd screen to entertain pedestrians as they are being run over
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Jun 4, 2023 18:22
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actionjackson posted:can't you not drive the Kei trucks on freeways? or some other restriction They usually have a top speed of like 50mph which is not a great idea to try to bring on a freeway where some shitwad with his f250 super duty needs to go 80 to get back to grocery shopping will just try to run you over. I'd love to get a kei truck tho because basically all the poo poo I need to do with a truck - dump runs, materials pickups, etc are all local roads anyway. who cares.
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Jun 4, 2023 18:29
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:Holy poo poo, just found out in 2010 Bijing china had a traffic jam that lasted for 10 days They solved this with a literal half measure. They banned half of cars. Even numbered license plates are only good on even numbered days, odd numbered plates on odd days. Banning cars is too communist even for communists
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Jun 4, 2023 18:54
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You can buy brand new kei trucks in the us but they're not road legal, they're pretty awesome as far as a truck can be and are kind of replacing side by sides as the 4x4 of choice in a lot of places
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Jun 4, 2023 19:01
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https://twitter.com/kleeposting/status/1664666180983070720?cxt=HHwWgIDRsczEipouAAAA
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Jun 4, 2023 19:12
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AnimeIsTrash posted:https://twitter.com/kleeposting/status/1664666180983070720?cxt=HHwWgIDRsczEipouAAAA that's right, cars ARE fascist
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Jun 4, 2023 19:34
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Hitler did basically invent the Autobahn, though aside from the obvious evil, it was also useful for war logistics. Anyway, should children learn to drive or read first? It seems unreasonable to restrict their freedom for too long.
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Jun 4, 2023 19:40
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Hitler: - couldn't drive - was scared by the thought of driving - didn't have a license - ordered his drivers and all party members to drive 31 mph max, so they could stop on time to avoid hitting a child or splashing cyclists - "argued that all military vehicles, from the field-kitchen truck to the ambulance and reconnaissance car, have a speed of between 10 and 20 km/h," also to save fuel - wanted to put a speed limit on the autobahn
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Jun 4, 2023 19:50
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also lol https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/1578434707414712321
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Jun 4, 2023 19:52
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I really hope Hitler's car becomes an election theme or gimmick. Mostly because associating evil and cars would be good, but also for absurdity. Of course I'm sure we'd also get arguments that if Hitler had a truk, he wouldn't have allegedly done a genocide and war.
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Jun 4, 2023 19:56
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I found this quote the other day and thought of this thread. Railroad carriages are pulled at the enormous speed of fifteen miles per hour by engines which, in addition to endangering life and limb of passengers, roar and snort their way through the countryside, setting fire to the crops, scaring the livestock, and frightening women and children. The Almighty certainly never intended that people should travel at such break-neck speed.
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Jun 5, 2023 00:15
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Van Buren's right.
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