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I gotta say. Saab 90s look real pretty as well.  These older style fronts really have... style?  And I think the black saabs look the nicest, just a good color on them, though I've seen some nice green ones.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:38
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I saw a SAAB 90 in the wild just the other day, blue and kitted out like a rally car, really clean looking. This made me happy. I've had a 99 and a 9-5, but the one I irrationally lust for is a 9000 aero. The last and best "real" SAAB according to some - I don't think I've ever even sat in one so I wouldn't know. Seeing as I live in Sweden buying one would be easy and owning one would be somewhat doable, but still too stupid.
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Jun 3, 2023 18:16
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It's gotta be a 99 or old-school 900 with the backwards mounted slant-4 and chain drive to maximize the experience of SAAB engineer humor.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:42
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I've been doing research and the Saab 90 is actually a very finnish car and was only made in the valmet plant in Finland. I also read that the Saabs made at the valmet plant had better paint jobs and better rust protection. The Saab 90 however seems like it only ever was made with carbureted engines and no Turbo what I can tell. It also only ever came in a three door configuration. Here's a video on the finnishness of the saab 90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMclS5S3UT4 I do like the looks of the 99, the 90 and the 900s. I kinda prefer the look of the older variants but what will dictate is likely what I will find first at a suitable price and condition. Another thing I am unsure about is what kind of project am I looking for... -A cheap project car requiring a good deal of work that I can put a lot of effort into restoring -Or something that's already in decent enough shape to start driving at once, but still something I can put effort into making better. And do I want to go for authenticity and get an older Saab and restore it so I can register it as a museum car, or do I want to do something more hilarious like getting an earlier 80s model and putting a more modern 16V fuel injected turbo engine in it and do other mods to the car? Or maybe I just wanna save myself the effort and instead look for a 16V 900 turbo Saab from the start. One thing that discourages me about the older 80s cars is they're from what I can tell very thirsty and I don't enjoy paying for fuel. The later engines seem to be more fuel economical despite being higher performance. Wonders of fuel injection and double the valves I guess.
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Jun 4, 2023 07:07
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Think about what sort of project you want. Swapping engines around will take you some significant effort especially with you coming in fresh to saabs. I’ve owned somewhere between 8 and 10 99s and 900s now and an engine swap was still hard work in places! An early 99 is now very much a classic car. The 900, while still now technically a “classic” feels a lot more modern and will definitely make your life much easier. I would recommend starting with an 16v turbo 900 and go from there, or go newer and go for a 9000. Still fairly easy to get hold of either in whatever state you want! This is mine, which I commuted 300 miles in last week! (It is now a 16v turbo) 
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Jun 4, 2023 13:37
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That's a nice looking car. I'm all about the OG Saabs though. One thing I am wondering, do all Saabs after 1978 come with turbos, or are all turbo equipped Saabs branded with the turbo decal? How do you know if it has a turbo without looking under the hood? Also which cars have the low pressure turbos and which have the high pressure ones, or rather how can you tell?
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Jun 4, 2023 16:27
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His Divine Shadow posted:do all Saabs after 1978 come with turbos No, far from it. I think it wasn't until 2nd gen 9-3 that all Saabs in the lineup had a turbo.
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Jun 4, 2023 17:23
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Is there any way to know aside from asking the seller or seeing inside the engine compartment? Or do all the Turbos proclaim it?
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Jun 4, 2023 19:26
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His Divine Shadow posted:Is there any way to know aside from asking the seller or seeing inside the engine compartment? Or do all the Turbos proclaim it? No, they come in all flavours, early ones are still single carbed/double carbed, then you get N/A injection and lots of different outputs of turbo (lpt/fpt and lots of different variants). 16v generally from the 87 or so onwards (but not always). There are varying types of engine management between the late-80's onwards ones too. Saab very much liked to mix things up so there is an infinite number of variants, and they were good at raiding the parts bins so changeover years are never fixed. Turbos generally have a turbo badge on somewhere! If you are looking at an advert any seller that cant tell you if it is a turbo/non turbo and what version of it probably isn't the best seller to buy from!
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Jun 4, 2023 23:00
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Back in the day I'd look for either the badge or the boost gauge on the instrument cluster.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:22
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JayKay posted:Back in the day I'd look for either the badge or the boost gauge on the instrument cluster. Our dads 1982 99GL had a "fuel economy gauge" (just measuring intake vacuum) on top of the dash, which I fooled a few people into thinking was a boost gauge.
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Jun 5, 2023 07:20
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I'm learning... There are two types of turbos too. There's low pressure turbos and high pressure turbos.  The low pressure turbo is called by some here a "gubb-turbo" or "old man turbo", it's more to improve engine performance across the range from what I gather, without sacrificing fuel economy. While a high pressure turbo maybe does the same, but also gives higher performance at the upper end of the spectrum. If I understand things correctly. High pressure ones have stuff like APC and intercoolers I believe too.
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Jun 5, 2023 08:12
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JayKay posted:Back in the day I'd look for either the badge or the boost gauge on the instrument cluster. Because this is taking me back and making me miss my Saab(s): (1991 9000, 1995 900S, 2005 9-2X Turbo, 2003 9-5 SE) , I present to you various Instrument Gauge Clusters throughout the years. First one is a non-turbo, the rest are turbos.    
JayKay fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 5, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 15:48
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Been looking a few days, seems turbos are rare and command a premium even here. I found one cheap turbo and it had 541,000 km on the odometer and generally not in nice shape. You find plenty of nice looking 900s with 16V injected engines but no turbos, 2.1l engines are not that uncommon on the later 900s either. Also 90s and 99s. All in the €1500 - 3400 range. The moment it mentions turbo, 9500 - 20,000 €. I saw cheap examples with the grille on the side of the hood, but from engine photos I did not think they where turbo variants. Also found some nice looking 900s, but with automatic transmissions and that's a big no for me. So I guess I need to consider how much I want a turbo.... Or how difficult adding one is...
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Jun 6, 2023 06:50
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So adding a turbo to a non turbo engine is on the level of total engine swap is easier. Based on what I am reading. Better give that up. I'm thinking what do I want. Do I really need to be that focused on performance? It's weird that it should be so hard to figure out what you want, it's my own mind for fucks sake. So anyway after mulling this over and I think my desires are in the line of a retro summer car, something I can drive in the summer months only along finnish country roads and that I can service and work on in winter. I'm really liking the looks of Saab 99s the more I see them and they can be had in good shape, low mileages for OK money (sub 4000€). So at the moment I am thinking a decent low mileage 99 might be a good fit for me. And if I find something better, well these cars only seem to be appreciating in value. This 1982 99 has only 140,000km on it, asking price 3990€. I love the color, I love the look. Only thing I miss is a sun roof.    e: Not married to that 99 either, just an example, it's actually museum registered so that means no car tax, but you may only drive it 30 days per year and no modifications ever. I don't like that much. I also found a nice 1986 900i for €2800 and only 160,000km on the odometer, 2 door coupe with spoiler. And it has a sun roof! Only thing I dislike is the color, metallic blue gray. My other two cars are metallic blue gray. I am so tired of metallic. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 08:32
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that 99 looks super clean - they really do look good from certain angles while others are less flattering IMO. It's difficult to see clearly because of the reflection in the rear window, but even the headliner looks intact where it's folded over the trim inside the C-pillar. This is usually rotted away on the survivors I see every once in a while, presumably from UV light I guess? If I'm not mistaken the GL means it has the 5-speed gearbox which has a reputation for being pretty fragile, so worth really trying it out well if you end up test driving the thing.
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Jun 6, 2023 11:00
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Inside looks OK and it should be 4 geared manual. Still, the museum thing really bugs me about it. Like that makes it too nice a car for me, it's obviously not gonna be usable as I thought, a daily summer driver. https://www.nettiauto.com/en/saab/99/11912301 But just keep cool, something will show up. Now for fun, here's a 99 Turbo https://www.nettiauto.com/en/saab/99/13604230 Also we used to have 99s and 900s as police cars:   
His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 13:50
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I found a pretty neat site, someone restoring a 1978 Saab Turbo. Old fashioned blog for an old fashioned car. http://saabisti.fi/saab-99-turbo-1978/ TBH it's a project like this I would like to take on some day too. But not now... Some day. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 06:47
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I assume its you posting on the UKS forum and not another person from Finland with the same thoughts? Go find a local forum or club or some friendly people and test drive some c900 and 99's! How much project do you want? A k-jet swap into a carbed 99 would be sadistic. You've read my project thread right? Might open your eyes to see just what the early 99's can offer in terms of rust and what my engine swap took? (mine is 16v Turbo with a Speeduino)
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Jun 10, 2023 22:40
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There's a reason I'm posting on foreign forums, can't loving register on the forums I want to. Wanted to register on the swedish forum saab turbo club sweden, it's the biggest swedish speaking forum for saabs, seems like ground zero for saab stuff. And since swedish is my main language and my finnish kinda sucks. But been trying now for a week, didn't get a confirmation mail, sent multiple notices to the mods about my problems. So I finally just said gently caress it, move further out. I'm so incredibly frustrated right now at that community and their mdoerators non responsiveness. That's the kind of info I am looking for, I don't know what it entails in terms of effort, most people seem to be doing entire engine swaps instead of just the fuel system so there must be a reason. I feel I could probably take on such a project eventually, I got the tools and I got experience welding rust and making my own spares. What I am doing right now on my daily driver. But ideally I'd get a car I can run first and evaluate and won't have to directly go into project mode. There are so called museum registered cars in Finland, that means an official has had to inspect them and make sure they are in a good enough standard inside and outside. They are also tax free. Downside is they are a museum car which means no modifications or engine swaps for a newer model or some such and you are allowed to drive it 30 days a year. Big cons in my view, but I have seen several at decent prices and it feels like a safer bet to buy one of those and then forego the museum registration stuff so I have free hands. I might have read parts of your thread, again a person doing an engine swap I thought, I wonder why I don't see nobody attempting a carb -> efi on the same engine... e: I can also see myself happy with a carbed engine if it gets good enough mileage. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 04:36
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UKS is good, but the server is a bit hosed right now (hence the errors you get), and they dont have many tech skills within the uk saab owners club to fix it fast (and I'm specifically not volunteering because doing tech for other car clubs made me hate a lot of people) UK classic car rules allow engine swaps. Buy a standard one and see how you like it. You wont lose money if you look after it and sell it if something more appropriate comes along later! I also have a carbed one, they are nice to drive! Bear in mind that to EFI swap an old saab you will need to do something like: - Swap the fuel tank to one that will take an electric pump, or plumb up an external pump. - Add a return line to the fuel tank Note that your chances of getting hold of an original Saab 99 EFI tank are now pretty much zero and if you do then you will have to work on the pump mounting. I spent around £500 just getting the one for mine repaired. - Do something to the carb and intake manifold to allow you to put injectors in it/use the carb as a throttle plate only/add a TPS. your chances of finding a turbo intake manifold for the early engine are close to zero. If you do find one you will have to get it machined to take normal injectors and work out how to add a TPS. If you want to use a newer intake manifold off a later engine you will have to work hard to make it fit the engine as the intake layout is not the same. - Sort a fuel rail to suit your injectors. - Do something to convert it from points to electronic ignition (I just ditched the dissy and went coil pack) - Work out how to add a crank position sensor (eg a trigger wheel) You could convert it to K-jet if you wanted, but you would have to get most of the parts listed above PLUS the k-jet only parts like the fuel distributor, warm up regulator, 1980's sensors, wiring loom and special fuel hoses and injectors. Please read up on K-jet first. It is mechanical fuel injection so has a lot of moving parts. It doesn't change the engine fueling simply by just changing injector pulses based on sensors. It does it all mechanically. There is a fuel distribution head (which it costs around £500 to get rebuilt here because it will be blocked with 40 years of fuel varnish), there is a warm up regulator that uses a separate circuit full of fuel, along with a block containing valves, a diaphragm and some springs and a bi-metallic strip to control warm up enrichment (and also costs about £500 for a refurb because it will be full of varnish and the moving parts rusted), there are also multiple 70's style timer switches and special relays. Then it also doesn't run at a normal fuel pressure so you need the K-jet specific fuel pump, along with the K-jet specific "fuel accumulator" unit (which are around £200), and the k-jet special injectors - and none of the mounting parts are standard.. You should also bear in mind that the early Saab engine has a timing chain that drives an additional jackshaft. This jackshaft drives the distributor and water pump. The water pump sits in the block and has to be removed with a special puller, and has a cover that corrodes and likely wont come out in one piece (so you are likely now looking at an electric water pump conversion). The jackshaft has teeth that after 45 years are prone to getting chewed up and you will struggle to find one for sale now.. I swapped the whole engine in mine because my old one was siezed and I didnt want to spend the likely £5,000 or so it would take me to get the parts to rebuild it. I have also run a K-jet car and spent way to many hours diagnosing weird k-jet faults, for which the only real solution now is loading the very expensive parts cannon. Speeduino was easier, much cheaper and much more fun!
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Jun 12, 2023 17:27
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Yeah I'm not that interested in doing that anymore if it's gonna be expensive as heck. I might get a carbed engine as you say and just drive it. See what I think. Does seem easier to swap in an entirely new 16v engine otherwise. Or I dunno, speeduino conversion maybe. I know nothing about that either. Those earlier motors are the B engines right? I was looking at post '82 models to get at least an H motor.
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Jun 13, 2023 05:20
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His Divine Shadow posted:Yeah I'm not that interested in doing that anymore if it's gonna be expensive as heck. Any old carbed car will give you some big challenges to efi convert it. (Unless it is something American where you can just drop a fancy electronic carb on it!) Yes, the B engine is the early one (and before that there was a triumph engine). Starting with a H engine definitely will make your life easier! Also if you do get a H engine car you can swap in a 16v later without bulkhead mods like I had to do! (As the bulkhead was changed in 82 too)
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Jun 13, 2023 19:59
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Oh my, a 1990 TURBO for 4000€ (might get it down still)      Interior is hideous, it's a 4-door instead of 4-door, but it's a real turbo and a sedan, I like those more than the hatchbacks. Exterior paint is kinda ugly too but I've been getting better at repainting cars. Might be a good candidate. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 08:40
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God drat, that is Saab perfection right there.
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Jun 15, 2023 18:59
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I'm personally conflicted. I really don't like the 4 door style or the interior. I realized after mulling it over for a few hours that I actually dislike most things on this car except it being a turbo. And on the other side there is this car, which is half the price, and driven 110,000 km less. It personally everything I want except it's not a turbo just a regular injected model.       I'm actually leaning towards this one personally, on the reasoning you can put a turbo engine in a regular Saab, but you can't turn a 4 door into a 2 door. But I am getting the feeling most people would choose the turbo.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:20
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I did get a few lovely pics at the Saab museum last week, was meaning to post them here. Cool place and I hadn’t seen all the concept cars before.     
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Jun 15, 2023 19:41
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm personally conflicted. I really don't like the 4 door style or the interior. I realized after mulling it over for a few hours that I actually dislike most things on this car except it being a turbo. One thing about that two-door is that it's not just non-turbo engine, it's also got the older SOHC head. I've always understood the later DOHC engines were the ones to have. Personally I think the red interior of the four-door turbo car is kinda bitchin and belies the boring grey exterior.
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Jun 15, 2023 23:54
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trouser chili posted:One thing about that two-door is that it's not just non-turbo engine, it's also got the older SOHC head. I've always understood the later DOHC engines were the ones to have. Personally I think the red interior of the four-door turbo car is kinda bitchin and belies the boring grey exterior. I am aware of this, but it's still an H engine even if just an 8 valve. It's not the engine but from what I can tell it's still a fine engine. It's basically only the engine in the other car that I like, and only the engine in this car I think is the detriment. It's just in nicer shape and cleaner all around too. I looked closer at the other and found rust holes in the bottom of the doors too. I'm not going to like that red interior ever...
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Jun 16, 2023 04:18
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Run from rust, of that I’m certain.
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Jun 16, 2023 06:24
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Some rust doesn't scare me, I've welded enough of it. Mostly the color and interior that puts me off, might be clapped out at 281,000 km too. I guess I could see myself with the car. If I could: -Repaint it to another color entirely -Get rid of the interior and replace it with something else -Fit a sun roof hatch (dunno how involved that would be) I offered €3800 for it just now anyway... If it was black it would be much nicer looking, here's a 4 door sedan for instance in black, instantly way nicer... 
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Jun 16, 2023 08:11
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His Divine Shadow posted:Oh my, a 1990 TURBO for 4000€ (might get it down still) You need to have a serious word with yourself. That interior is some late 80’s/early nineties beauty! The 2 door/4 door 900 is defo not the prettiest Saab model with that chopped square rear end but they have a certain charm which I thing grows on you.
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Jun 16, 2023 11:15
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I like the rears on the sedan models actually. It's not 99 pretty but close enough. I just think the two door I posted is so drat nice looking... And cheap!
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Jun 16, 2023 11:29
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Turbo-owner accepted my offer of 3800€ will send more photos tomorrow. I'm still unsure though, the other car is just so much nicer looking. God damnit am I the only one who thinks that?
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Jun 16, 2023 12:45
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His Divine Shadow posted:Turbo-owner accepted my offer of 3800€ will send more photos tomorrow. I'm still unsure though, the other car is just so much nicer looking. 2-door looks better, but turbo and that red interior more than makes up for it.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:43
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His Divine Shadow posted:I am aware of this, but it's still an H engine even if just an 8 valve. It's not the engine but from what I can tell it's still a fine engine. Yeah, the 8v H engine is a solid engine. It looses the horrible jackshaft waterpump/dissy arrangement of the earlier B engine. However, that one is an early one with K-jet so lol :7:
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Jun 16, 2023 22:21
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Clayton Bigsby posted:I did get a few lovely pics at the Saab museum last week, was meaning to post them here. Cool place and I hadn’t seen all the concept cars before. God that Aero X was sexy. Would have been nice to see more of the cars that were going to use that design language. I could have bought a last-gen 9-5, but the parts rarity scared me off.
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Jun 17, 2023 03:43
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Tomarse posted:Yeah, the 8v H engine is a solid engine. It looses the horrible jackshaft waterpump/dissy arrangement of the earlier B engine. Well it's a complete system in working condition so keeping it running might not be too bad? There's also the upgrade route, I've seen more than one cheap 900 turbo donor, basically rusted heaps or broken cars that could serve as a donor. But I am not sure about such a project either. Regardless of what car I get I would like to drive it for a few years before deciding on anything major. Probably gonna be more a matter of doing maintenance and service at first. Maybe complete engine disassembly and servicing. I have never done anything like that but how hard can it be?  Srsly tho doing stuff like that is kinda why I want an older car, I want to learn to do stuff like that.
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Jun 17, 2023 07:25
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So got more photos from seller, he also says the locks have "cosmetic damage" from a burglary attempt, but are fully functional. I'm actually arrangin a time to look at the car. Am I buying this???    It strikes me, it would be very fitting for me to get a Saab soon. I will be attending my uncles funeral and am a pallbearer there, my uncle was a life long saab enthusiast. I think he had a 900 once. And all the latter saab models. He might've enjoyed me taking a Saab there.
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Jun 17, 2023 11:40
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Train ticket booked for next monday! Until then I guess I will be just looking at other peoples photos. I need to find louvres for a sedan! I love louvres... I am really liking the two tone look, makes the saloon style sportier   I never cared for those tri tip rims however. The ones on the car I am going to look at are much nicer. Though the best rims where on the green metallic saab. 
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Jun 19, 2023 10:01
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