War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Mr. Apollo posted:

A bit of a tangent, but the BitTorrent tracker RARBG shut down a few days ago and the war in Ukraine is cited as one of the reasons.

I mean if they knowingly employed Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine then gently caress em

# ? Jun 5, 2023 06:12

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 12:19

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Yeah not really feeling that much sympathy for an illegal torrent site given the actual victims in Ukraine.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 06:16

Slashrat: Jun 6, 2011; YOSPOS

Charliegrs posted:

I mean if they knowingly employed Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine then gently caress em

The takeaway I got from that part was more that they had Russian and Ukrainian team members whose contributions to keeping the site running stopped when they were conscripted into/killed by the war. I don't know how the operating organisation of a torrent site is structured, but I would expect it to be closer to an open-source project of volunteers rather than a regular company with a boss and salaried employees.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 07:33

Moktaro: Aug 3, 2007; I value call my nuts.

beer_war posted:

Shortly after that clip:

I cannot wait for Tara Reade to tell us the truth about Vladimir Putin.

Later she talks about prison conditions in the US, as related to her by Maria Butina.

Holy poo poo, when you get Megyn Kelly to call out a right-wing human rights monster...

# ? Jun 5, 2023 08:04

Sucrose: Dec 9, 2009

The US says over and over �we don�t support Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory, we don�t support Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory� so what does Putin do? Reduces his troops protecting the border regions to a skeleton crew, and sends all the rest into Ukraine. Now the Ukrainians are getting sick of it and are shelling and making incursions into Russian border towns anyway, using a figleaf excuse. Why wouldn�t they? Every Russian soldier sent to defend the Russian border is one that�s not in Ukraine.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 15:30

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

Has there been no news other than what BBC reported?

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:09

saratoga: Mar 5, 2001; This is a Randbrick post. It goes in that D&D megathread on page 294

"i think obama was mediocre in that debate, but hillary was fucking terrible. also russert is filth."

-randbrick, 12/26/08

Boris Galerkin posted:

Has there been no news other than what BBC reported?

Ukrainians are in blackout. They also apparently are suppressing Russian communications:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1665725383327580160

So there is a lot of panicky Russian stuff on telegram but it is hard to tell what, if anything, is accurate. Most people are saying attacks so far have been preliminary.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:37

Eric Cantonese: Dec 21, 2004; You should hear my accent.

Boris Galerkin posted:

Has there been no news other than what BBC reported?

The NY Times reports some kind of attacks going on.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/05/world/russia-ukraine-news

quote:

Ukrainian forces stepped up their artillery strikes and ground assaults in a flurry of offensive military activity that by Monday was raging along multiple sectors of the front line, American and Russian officials said.

Ukraine has remained silent about military operations after months of preparing for a major counteroffensive in the war. But the American officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the surge in attacks was a possible indication that Kyiv�s long-planned counteroffensive against Russian forces had begun.

The officials based their assessment in part on information from U.S. military satellites, which detected an uptick in action from Ukrainian military positions. The satellites have infrared capabilities to track artillery fire and missile launches.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:38

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

A few images of KO'd Leopard 2 on Twitter now. On Russian accounts so idk if authentic, but plausible.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1665735979427037184

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:40

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Belgian MOD is apparently concerned that RVC troops doing raids into Russia were armed with Belgium-supplied FN rifles

https://www.lesoir.be/517390/article/2023-06-04/guerre-en-ukraine-la-belgique-demande-des-clarifications-quant-lutilisation

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:41

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

I'm reading on De Standaard that both Prigozhin and Ukraine are reporting Russian losses in the vicinity of Bakhmut, so it appears that that's where they're attacking, unless of course it's a diversion.

e: it appears that they're attacking at several places along the front, not just Bakhmut.

Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jun 5, 2023

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:42

WarpedLichen: Aug 14, 2008

There's been a lot of reporting that probing attacks are occurring on the south:
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1665693257026658304?cxt=HHwWgICznaXM3Z0uAAAA

Ukraine deputy Minister of Defense noted some 100s of meters of gains while "continuing the defense."

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1665742066264027139?cxt=HHwWhsC9sa7l850uAAAA

I would say that this is a more serious set of probing attacks, if only because we haven't seen confirmed reports of the new armor being committed anywhere yet. Losses are definitely happening, but I would imagine the Russian reporting is exaggerating how well they are doing as is the standard.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:53

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Boris Galerkin posted:

Has there been no news other than what BBC reported?

I'm sure there is plenty of news of the same credibility of the BBC, but if you are looking for anything substantial you'll be waiting for a while. Neither side is going to be forthcoming with (truthful, comprehensive) information.

Just embrance not knowing and wait for dust to settle.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:53

DJ Burette: Jan 6, 2010

Dandywalken posted:

A few images of KO'd Leopard 2 on Twitter now. On Russian accounts so idk if authentic, but plausible.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1665735979427037184

That's an AMX-10 RC, not a leopard.

Edit: I really strongly recommend to everyone to not read any of the hype posters on twitter, pro-UA or pro-Rus, for at least a few days unless you want to get worked up over rumours and fake posting.

All russian telegram and twitter is likely to be posting any video of destroyed Ukrainian equipment a million times, or just making a bunch of fakes, and claiming how thousands are dead. If you read too much it will break your brain. We aren't going to have a clear idea about anything for at least a few weeks, and this seems to still be more probing attacks.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:55

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Mon dieu. ......

Def plausible, ty for correction

Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jun 5, 2023

# ? Jun 5, 2023 16:56

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Boris Galerkin posted:

Has there been no news other than what BBC reported?

Here's the most current published source I've seen:

https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/06/05/ukraines-counter-offensive-appears-to-have-begun

Not every attack named in the Economist article is cited as making gains, so Russia is notching some successful defenses. But Twitter rumors corroborate that these are largely company-size assaults as described in the article, so neither the successes nor failures are likely to be huge; at this stage these still seem to be probing assaults, and the new offensive brigades have not appeared yet.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 17:00

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

DJ Burette posted:

Edit: I really strongly recommend to everyone to not read any of the hype posters on twitter, pro-UA or pro-Rus, for at least a few days unless you want to get worked up over rumours and fake posting.

All russian telegram and twitter is likely to be posting any video of destroyed Ukrainian equipment a million times, or just making a bunch of fakes, and claiming how thousands are dead. If you read too much it will break your brain. We aren't going to have a clear idea about anything for at least a few weeks, and this seems to still be more probing attacks.

This is a very good advice for any topic and time regarding this war (but now especially) - unless you have a filtered stream of trusted sources, take a minute and double check any report for bias and plausibility.

The often repeated notion that this war is the most recorded conflict in history may be somewhat true but you should realize that even if you are deep into OSINT you only have access to very limited and often corrupt data as a side observer.

fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jun 5, 2023

# ? Jun 5, 2023 17:06

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

fatherboxx posted:

This is a very good advice for any topic and time regarding this war (but now especially) - unless you have a filtered stream of trusted sources, take a minute and double check any report for bias and plausibility.

The often repeated notion that this war is the most recorded conflict in history may be somewhat true but you should realize that even if you are deep into OSINT you only have access to very limited and often corrupt data as a side observer.

For good or ill, SA IS my filter. :derp:

Everything is going to be mixed up in the fog of war for the next few months.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 18:31

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Ukrainian answer to BMPT Terminator, with spicy bricks of course

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1665772495608197121?t=xgGplb9E0hrKR-3dLURsQQ&s=19

# ? Jun 5, 2023 18:39

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Well, watch something while waiting for the dust to settle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKGYnO0Jf4

# ? Jun 5, 2023 18:40

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

https://twitter.com/Sino_Market/status/1665691135035994114

(verbatim from MFA release so more flattering of the Chinese position than it really is)

That said:

https://twitter.com/fbermingham/status/1665761591432716288

it's true that if China is not supplying Russia with arms now, then there is no need to move them out of that position

e: a certain someone has popped out of the woodwork to really test that French-Chinese alignment:

https://twitter.com/fbermingham/status/1665794204864335873

ronya fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jun 5, 2023

# ? Jun 5, 2023 18:46

Sucrose: Dec 9, 2009

Ukrainian forces have apparently seized control of the border town of Novaya Tavolzhanka, according to Russian officials.

https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1665782935931219968?s=61&t=V-HV35YWq0OSpug3yKk84g

# ? Jun 5, 2023 19:54

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

fatherboxx posted:

This is a very good advice for any topic and time regarding this war (but now especially) - unless you have a filtered stream of trusted sources, take a minute and double check any report for bias and plausibility.

The often repeated notion that this war is the most recorded conflict in history may be somewhat true but you should realize that even if you are deep into OSINT you only have access to very limited and often corrupt data as a side observer.

ironically I'd say that 1) it's definitely not the most recorded war in history except maybe due to scale of the war and 2) it is unquestionably in the top two or three of the most effectively information blockaded wars since cellphones became ubiquitous. the degree to which both sides are effectively blockading information coming out is wild. Obviously it isn't completely effective, but the vast majority of the photos/videos coming out from either side are things that are deliberately cleared for release. As such, nearly the entire information space is shaped by one of the motivated, involved parties.

both sides are very aware that taking and posting photos or videos leads to things exploding and there are very serious laws reflecting this, too.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 20:40

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Herstory Begins Now posted:

As such, nearly the entire information space is shaped by one of the motivated, involved parties.

This wasn't the case when there was urban combat and constant use of aviation, but now with most of the fighting done in areas without civilians, yeah, you see what combatants and the PR departments over them want you to see.

# ? Jun 5, 2023 20:47

ummel: Jun 17, 2002; <3 Lowtax; Fun Shoe

Antigravitas posted:

I'm sure there is plenty of news of the same credibility of the BBC, but if you are looking for anything substantial you'll be waiting for a while. Neither side is going to be forthcoming with (truthful, comprehensive) information.

Just embrance not knowing and wait for dust to settle.

In other words.....

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1665800958662549504

# ? Jun 5, 2023 20:50

Sir Lancelot: Aug 2, 2004; In these times its probably not a good thing that i hold a job easily replaced by a Lamppost.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-fighter-jets-could-be-sent-to-ukraine-20230605-p5de0h

quote:

Australia, the US and Ukraine are discussing sending 41 Royal Australian Air Force F/A-18 Hornets to Kyiv helping fulfil part of President Volodymyr Zelensky�s request for fighter jets, rather than sending them to the scrapheap as planned.
Sources have told The Australian Financial Review that the US, which recently gave permission to other Western allies to supply Ukraine with advanced fighter jets, including US-made F-16s, is favourably disposed to the idea of gifting Ukraine the F/A-18s.

Washington�s approval is needed because it owns the intellectual property on the jets that have been retired by the RAAF and which are being replaced by F-35s, of which Australia has ordered 72.

The retired F/A-18s are sitting in a hangar at the Williamtown RAAF base outside Newcastle and unless sent to Ukraine, will either be scrapped or sold to a private sector aviation company, RAVN Aerospace, to use in the US as �enemies� for military aviators to train against
Robert Potter, an Australian security expert advising the Ukrainian government, confirmed negotiations were underway, but a specific deal is yet to be finalised.

�However, the United States and Ukraine have an active and specific interest in the acquisition of fourth generation fighters for the Ukrainian Air Force,� he said.

�Australia operates a large stockpile of retired planes which are otherwise scheduled for destruction.
�There are multiple formal approvals required to conclude a procurement of these planes, but it is likely an idea whose time has come.�

A separate source close to the discussions agreed it made no sense to destroy perfectly good aircraft that he said could be operational within four months and used to help repel the Russian invasion.
While a handful of planes would only be good for cannibalising parts, the vast bulk would take little work to be brought up to flying condition and have a couple of years left on their airframes. The Australian Hornets are in good shape because they didn�t operate at sea.

Ukrainian pilots and ground crew could be quickly brought up to speed to operate the Hornets with Ukrainian language training manuals to be produced.

And with an influx of western fighters to help Ukraine, that would include ex-Hornet pilots.
Defence Minister Richard Marles, who met his Ukrainian counterpart on the sidelines of the weekend�s Shangri-La defence summit in Singapore, declined to comment, but his office pointed instead to comments he made at the weekend about Australia�s next contribution to the war effort.

�There are specific requests that Ukraine has made of us, I am not going to go into the details of those, but we are working through them with the government of Ukraine,� he said.

�Being there for as long as it takes means that we will have another iteration of support for Ukraine, that won�t be long before we announce that, obviously, we�re in conversation with Ukraine about how we can best contribute, as we are in a conversation with both the UK, the US and other allies about the best kind of contribution we could make.
�The starting point here is that we see what�s at issue in the war in Ukraine is really the sanctity of the global rules-based order itself.�

After initial resistance to President Zelensky�s request for used American fighters, US President Joe Biden at the G7 summit in Japan two weeks ago gave the green light to western allies to supply Kyiv with fourth generation fighters such as the Hornets and F-16s (which the RAAF does not operate).

Experts said there are several reasons why the Australian Hornets would help make a difference.
First, the Hornets would play an important role in defending Ukrainian civilians. Western air defence systems such as Patriot missiles are doing an effective job stopping the worst of Russia�s nightly bombardments of major cities, but there are still gaps, with less built-up areas lacking those systems.

Hornets flying around could be used to intercept and shoot down enemy missiles.
With their twin engines, the Hornets have a much greater chance of survivability if they were damaged. A pilot can land on one engine, and Ukraine cannot afford to lose pilots. And the Hornets are better suited than other fourth-gen jets to the rougher airfields of Ukraine.

Australia going first with an initial delivery of fighter jets would give the Americans (and other nations) cover to provide hundreds from its own fleet of F/A-18s.

It could also be a bad look for Australia if it were not prepared to give up ageing planes at the same time the Americans are preparing to share the crown jewels of their military, nuclear-powered submarines with Australia when the US doesn�t really have them to spare.

To prevent the risk of escalation, Australians (and the Americans) could make clear that the Hornets could only fly within Ukrainian airspace, warning if they were used to bomb Russia, the allies would stop maintaining the aircraft, effectively grounding them.

I think that would be a pretty good haul for Ukraine if they can get their hands on the hornets. They would hopefully still be in reasonable condition. Plus the USA would have hundreds more that might also be at the end of their life as well.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 00:33

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Sir Lancelot posted:

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-fighter-jets-could-be-sent-to-ukraine-20230605-p5de0h

I think that would be a pretty good haul for Ukraine if they can get their hands on the hornets. They would hopefully still be in reasonable condition. Plus the USA would have hundreds more that might also be at the end of their life as well.

I don't know anything about aircraft logistics. But wouldn't the logistics of maintaining F18s be even more difficult for Ukraine than F16s?

# ? Jun 6, 2023 00:54

Scapegoat: Sep 18, 2004

Sir Lancelot posted:

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-fighter-jets-could-be-sent-to-ukraine-20230605-p5de0h

I think that would be a pretty good haul for Ukraine if they can get their hands on the hornets. They would hopefully still be in reasonable condition. Plus the USA would have hundreds more that might also be at the end of their life as well.

Both the Dutch and Australia in the mix now for supplying fighters. Looks like MH17 might finally be catching up with Russia.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:03

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

I seem to recall that the F/A-18 Hornets require less maintenance than F-16s,though my memory could be wrong. One issue is that the US Hornets are apparently in pretty bad shape compared to the Australian ones. That is, the airframes themselves are worn harder.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:13

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Australian retired F/A-18s are of such an old vintage that the USN doesn�t fly that type anymore at all.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:19

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

mlmp08 posted:

Australian retired F/A-18s are of such an old vintage that the USN doesn’t fly that type anymore at all.

I think they have a bunch at the boneyard in Tucson, Arizona. So maybe getting parts wouldn't be a big deal unless they need like brand new parts.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:21

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

Australia sending their old F/A-18s to Ukraine and the US ripping up their old airframes for the spare parts to accompany them would be a real win-win.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:26

madeintaipei: Jul 13, 2012

mlmp08 posted:

Australian retired F/A-18s are of such an old vintage that the USN doesn’t fly that type anymore at all.

USMC is part of the USN, but yeah. C/D Hornets, not the Super Hornet, which is a substantially different airplane.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:43

tehinternet: Feb 14, 2005; Semantically, "you" is both singular and plural, though syntactically it is always plural. It always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural.

Also, there is no plural when the context is an argument with an individual rather than a group. Somfin shouldn't put words in my mouth.

madeintaipei posted:

USMC is part of the USN, but yeah. C/D Hornets, not the Super Hornet, which is a substantially different airplane.

Yeah, I only learned this year that the super hornet is like 30% bigger than the regular hornet

# ? Jun 6, 2023 01:48

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

tehinternet posted:

Yeah, I only learned this year that the super hornet is like 30% bigger than the regular hornet

It is? Oh, wow. I really do know jack poo poo about airframes.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 02:10

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

I mean they don�t call it the Normal Hornet.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 02:23

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

Sorry I only size my hornets in Starbucks units.

Send them the Venti Hornets

# ? Jun 6, 2023 02:31

Flappy Bert: Dec 11, 2011; I have seen the light, and it is a string

Ynglaur posted:

It is? Oh, wow. I really do know jack poo poo about airframes.

The Navy basically pretended to Congress that it was an upgrade package to get exactly that reaction and got a new plane out of it, all time procurement success.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 03:00

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Nova Khakovka dam apparently is no more?

https://twitter.com/UAControlMap/status/1665905312388337664?s=20

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1665897509179236355?s=20

this seems like it would be very hard to fake so probably inclined to put this one in the 'happened' category

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1665905255509291008?s=20

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jun 6, 2023

# ? Jun 6, 2023 03:26

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 12:19

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

https://twitter.com/warinukraineua/status/1665897532419981315

https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1665904696429518849

So Russia just destroyed the water supply for Crimea. That's not something you do if you intend to keep it.

# ? Jun 6, 2023 03:27

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