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AlternateNu posted:I laughed way too hard when Spot screamed “You threw a bagel at me!” Bagels loving up multi-verses are so hot right now.
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Jun 7, 2023 13:00
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AlternateNu posted:I laughed way too hard when Spot screamed “You threw a bagel at me!” He said he pulled the spider from Earth-42, and at that moment (for about 0.25 of a second) you can see it was about to bite the Miles of that Earth… 
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Jun 7, 2023 13:08
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Captain Invictus posted:I should really watch the first one again. I just heard someone say "remember when miles got bitten by the spider in the first movie, and it glitched out right before? huh, wasn't that WEIRD?!" and man that's so true, I completely forgot about that, and I'm sure there's tons of other little foreshadowing tidbits. There's also the thing I've seen brought up alot, which is when Miles and his universe's Peter meet for the first time after Miles has been bitten, they both do a spidey sense thing at each other, but Miles' spidey sense colors start off green and purple and then fade into red and blue.
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Jun 7, 2023 13:26
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Macaluso posted:There's also the thing I've seen brought up alot, which is when Miles and his universe's Peter meet for the first time after Miles has been bitten, they both do a spidey sense thing at each other, but Miles' spidey sense colors start off green and purple and then fade into red and blue. That's true, and I always took that as meaning that meeting Peter changed Miles from a future villain (who are coded green/purple a lot) to a hero (red/blue)
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Jun 7, 2023 13:31
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AlternateNu posted:I laughed way too hard when Spot screamed “You threw a bagel at me!”
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Jun 7, 2023 13:42
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ConfusedUs posted:gently caress how did I not catch that? It happens very quickly, and the spider doesn't seem to recoil from any pain, unlike when it happens to arachno-humanoids
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Jun 7, 2023 13:52
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mystes posted:I thought he was just saying he inadvertently caused it to travel to earth-1610 Yeah, he brought it across accidentally
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Jun 7, 2023 13:54
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I get the feeling the Spot probably was already quite the mad scientist even before the whole supercollider incident seems to have hosed up his perception of time and space. I get weirdly Dr Manhattan vibes. Also funny that despite his goofiness, he rapidly becomes an utterly nightmarish villain simply because he's impossible to contain.
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Jun 7, 2023 14:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also funny that despite his goofiness, he rapidly becomes an utterly nightmarish villain simply because he's impossible to contain.
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Jun 7, 2023 14:21
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mystes posted:I feel like the point is more that Miles was making a fundamental mistake by thinking he could just look at the spot and think "he's goofy so he's a villain of the week and therefore I don't need to worry about him" The joke being more the Spot HAS always been a goofy side villain with him becoming a serious threat being a surprise. Though it might go with the idea of Miguel coming to see the recurring elements of Spider-man as necessary rather than just particular motifs that some of them happen to have in common. Heck, maybe if he actually talked to the one who caused the mess with Dr Strange he might learn a thing or two about how different things can be.
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Jun 7, 2023 14:26
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massive spider posted:I’m interested to see now we’re in universe 42, who made the spider? It was Norman Osbourne in the ultimate universe I believe. the spider was an Alchemax creation and in the comics there's two figures heavily tied to Alchemax. Osborn and Miguel.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:29
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The_Doctor posted:IMAX still uses traditional projectors I think? They do/did, but it's becoming vanishingly rare. A true 70mm IMAX projector is HUGE. Like "take up the whole room" huge. Most IMAX (why can't I help but capitalize it? I still have respect for the brand name in me somewhere, I guess.) presentations are digital laser projection now. Those projectors are still pretty loving big, but not compared to a complete platter and projector system for IMAX film. IMAX digital isn't the worst thing in the world (in fact, I've seen it look quite good), but it simply does NOT compare to the real thing. Fun fact: The film is SO big and actually runs horizontally through the projector, you can kinda watch the movie as it goes by. It doesn't have the same persistence of vision as an actual projection and it's all stretched out, but it's still pretty cool.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:31
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So, regarding Gwen's dad, did he have a trans flag pin on his badge, or was that just like, a trick of the colors in the scene or something to make it resemble one? Basically, was it a thematic choice by the artists to use the colors to reflect the scene or was it a narrative choice to say "he literally has this pin and literally put it on his badge"? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking because I've heard both and screencaps don't tell the story and I wasn't paying attention to his badge during my viewing.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The joke being more the Spot HAS always been a goofy side villain with him becoming a serious threat being a surprise. Though it might go with the idea of Miguel coming to see the recurring elements of Spider-man as necessary rather than just particular motifs that some of them happen to have in common. Heck, maybe if he actually talked to the one who caused the mess with Dr Strange he might learn a thing or two about how different things can be. I mean the biggest point I realized after brushing up a bit is that for all Miguel talks about the certainty of canon events, Miles’ dad is historically not only not dead in most appearances, he’s the only member of the morales family who consistently gets out unscathed. Miguel’s whole thesis is fundamentally bullshit from the word go.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:50
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MJeff posted:So, regarding Gwen's dad, did he have a trans flag pin on his badge, or was that just like, a trick of the colors in the scene or something to make it resemble one? Basically, was it a thematic choice by the artists to use the colors to reflect the scene or was it a narrative choice to say "he literally has this pin and literally put it on his badge"? I looked out for this last night and in the first sequence with him it DOES look like it’s on it but at the end of the movie when they do a closeup of his badge it’s clearly just police rank stripes above it. Gwen does have a prominent Protect Trans Kids poster in her room though.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:59
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I mean the biggest point I realized after brushing up a bit is that for all Miguel talks about the certainty of canon events, Miles’ dad is historically not only not dead in most appearances, he’s the only member of the morales family who consistently gets out unscathed. Miguel’s whole thesis is fundamentally bullshit from the word go. Miles' dad is notably very dead in the PS games which get multiple callouts in the movie.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:06
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I mean the biggest point I realized after brushing up a bit is that for all Miguel talks about the certainty of canon events, Miles’ dad is historically not only not dead in most appearances, he’s the only member of the morales family who consistently gets out unscathed. Miguel’s whole thesis is fundamentally bullshit from the word go. Not that I don't believe Miguel is wrong, but Jefferson isn't a police captain in most continuities. In the comics he's a retired SHIELD agent. The only things where he's a cop is the movies and the game where he died after making captain.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:09
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Man that'd be a gut punch Miles and Crew save his dad only for his mom to bite it. Now that I've thought of it it's feeling like a real possibility. Although it also means they'd ave pulled the same type of move in three Spidermediums in a row
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Jun 7, 2023 17:12
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I mean the biggest point I realized after brushing up a bit is that for all Miguel talks about the certainty of canon events, Miles’ dad is historically not only not dead in most appearances, he’s the only member of the morales family who consistently gets out unscathed. Miguel’s whole thesis is fundamentally bullshit from the word go. Although there's something weird about the whole logic where Miles isn't supposed to be spiderman but also his father needs to die. mystes fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 17:14
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Yeah I don’t think Miguel’s system is supposed to be internally consistent
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Jun 7, 2023 17:30
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Miguel's story doesn't add up in some obvious ways. Saving one dudes life could destroy an entire reality, but world 42 not having a Spider-Man at all does not seem to have done anything to it on an existential level. I can't wait for Beyond to spin out what is really going on and resolve things.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:41
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My assumption is that Miguel didn't understand what caused the issue but blamed himself in his self loathing. Which is a very Spider Person thing to do.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:46
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There are a ton of good jokes in this movie but Hobie calling Peter B. "Humbling Reality Spider-Man" just cracks me up
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Jun 7, 2023 17:55
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My favourite gag is when miles is in such deep poo poo with his parents they set off his spider sense as soon as he arrives.
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Jun 7, 2023 18:21
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You know... Miguel is the Spanish version of Michael. Miguel has some vampire stuff going on. There's a spiderman adjacent vampire named Michael. Are we being Morbed?
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Jun 7, 2023 18:59
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I did wonder about the vampire stuff. I'm really curious what they're going to do with Miguel because he was absolutely about to bite into The Vulture at the beginning of the movie before the helicopter hit them with the spotlight. I don't believe they're trying to do a full on villain thing with him, but the vampire aspects seem to be brought up for a reason
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Jun 7, 2023 19:02
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Macaluso posted:I did wonder about the vampire stuff. I'm really curious what they're going to do with Miguel because he was absolutely about to bite into The Vulture at the beginning of the movie before the helicopter hit them with the spotlight. I don't believe they're trying to do a full on villain thing with him, but the vampire aspects seem to be brought up for a reason That is literally just part of the character. His fangs contain a paralyzing neurotoxin which he was probably trying to use ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 19:07
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Spiderman 2099 is a lot less popular than I had previously assumed.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:07
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ImpAtom posted:That is literally just part of the character. His fangs contain a paralyzing neurotoxin which he was probably trying to use Ah well there you go. Yeah, I am completely unfamiliar with Spiderman 2099
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Jun 7, 2023 19:09
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mystes posted:I feel like the point is more that Miles was making a fundamental mistake by thinking he could just look at the spot and think "he's goofy so he's a villain of the week and therefore I don't need to worry about him" Honestly, Miles' first encounter with the Spot kind of illustrates that Miguel might have a point. Miles is very irresponsible in that scene; not taking Spot seriously at all, demeaning him and just making everything worse. Really, Spot is correct that stealing an ATM is a victimless crime. Spot also wasn't acting violently toward the shop owner at all. Miles didn't really need to intervene. He just exacerbated a situation way out of control. They definitely caused more property damage than was saved in the ATM and he unintentionally made a supervillain really, really loving motivated to do some damage. And he could have taken Spot out before revealing himself if he really thought he needed to, but he wanted to throw out some banter first. Don't get me wrong, Miguel is ultimately missing the point but Miles really did need a wake up call to start being more responsible. But he can get that without someone needing to die for his "character development", I mean jesus christ. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 19:13
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Nephthys posted:Honestly, Miles' first encounter with the Spot kind of illustrates that Miguel might have a point. Miles is very irresponsible in that scene; not taking Spot seriously at all, demeaning him and just making everything worse. Really, Spot is correct that stealing an ATM is a victimless crime. Spot also wasn't acting violently toward the shop owner at all. Miles didn't really need to intervene. He just exacerbated a situation way out of control. They definitely caused more property damage than was saved in the ATM and he unintentionally made a supervillain really, really loving motivated to do some damage. And he could have taken Spot out before revealing himself if he really thought he needed to, but he wanted to throw out some banter first. He is Spider Man. It isn't like Peter takes his joke villains seriously either.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:18
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Nephthys posted:Really, Spot is correct that stealing an ATM is a victimless crime. Spot also wasn't acting violently toward the shop owner at all. Miles didn't really need to intervene.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:54
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Ograbme posted:I live being Spider-Man and not intervening against petty criminals. Now I'll take a big sip of coffee and read the obituaries... Don't be silly it isn't like that seemingly minor villain might come back in a way that impacts Miles directly
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Jun 7, 2023 20:02
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Nephthys posted:Honestly, Miles' first encounter with the Spot kind of illustrates that Miguel might have a point. Miles is very irresponsible in that scene; not taking Spot seriously at all, demeaning him and just making everything worse. Really, Spot is correct that stealing an ATM is a victimless crime. Spot also wasn't acting violently toward the shop owner at all. Miles didn't really need to intervene. He just exacerbated a situation way out of control. They definitely caused more property damage than was saved in the ATM and he unintentionally made a supervillain really, really loving motivated to do some damage. And he could have taken Spot out before revealing himself if he really thought he needed to, but he wanted to throw out some banter first. eh to be fair Miguel isn't blaming Miles for being a cop and fighting against petty theft, and if anything would probably want the Spot dealt with way more harshly and decisively. Miguel is blaming Miles for: 1) becoming Spider-Man in place of another dimensions Spider-Man despite having no way of knowing any of this or choosing it 2) causing the dimensional rift in the first place (he didn't, Kingpin and Alchemax did and things would have gotten way worse without Miles fixing thing) 3) being oblivious that this caused issues in other dimensions that Miguel had to deal with? despite ordering everyone to keep Miles in the dark?? 4) saving the police chief in Mumbattan and causing the "canon event" there despite -- again -- not being given any info about this and 5) pre-emptively knowing that Miles probably wouldn't want his dad to die. None of this really strikes me as "Miles needs to be more responsible" and it certainly doesnt strike me as "Miles needs to realize that petty theft is not worth fighting against and doing so just causes worse issues" although I mean, that is valid its just not a point the movie is really keen to make
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Jun 7, 2023 20:05
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The thing is, even with Spot being a petty criminal, the man’s got a victim complex the size of South Dakota. Certainly, Miles could have approached him with more consideration and helped him out through the rough period in his life but. Even when Miles does try to approach him and apologize when things go off the rails, Spot monologues about “aha, imagine how seriously you’ll take me when I kill millions of uninvolved innocents, including your dad.” He talks a big game about how his plight was ignored by heroes, but he only cares that he was ignored, not that anyone around him is getting caught in the crossfire.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:08
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the thing is, from Miguel’s logic- if you take it as a given that this universes miles was not “supposed” to be a Spider-Man, that raises some questions about his suitability. Since ok yeah there are other miles morales spidermen in other universes, but narrative says that whoever gets bit by the spider is The Stuff of Heroes and will achieve that, after the requisite trials. But it may be that if you go off script then there’s a possibility the wrong spider bit the wrong miles- the one in the particular universe where he’s incompetent. By being an anomaly miles is a dangerous unknown, so the safest thing is for him to follow the most cliche Spider-Man script possible and hope it resolves. Then as others have pointed out there’s a meta textual element to this. It would have worked a little better really if into the spider verse had been miles first appearance as a character making him a genuine anomaly across media and comic book/PS4 Spider-Man didn’t also have a miles, but that can’t be helped. ImpAtom posted:That is literally just part of the character. His fangs contain a paralyzing neurotoxin which he was probably trying to use It’s part of the character but not one that I think they would have brought up unless they were going somewhere with it. massive spider fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 20:35
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Guy A. Person posted:eh to be fair Miguel isn't blaming Miles for being a cop and fighting against petty theft, and if anything would probably want the Spot dealt with way more harshly and decisively. Miguel is blaming Miles for: 1) becoming Spider-Man in place of another dimensions Spider-Man despite having no way of knowing any of this or choosing it 2) causing the dimensional rift in the first place (he didn't, Kingpin and Alchemax did and things would have gotten way worse without Miles fixing thing) 3) being oblivious that this caused issues in other dimensions that Miguel had to deal with? despite ordering everyone to keep Miles in the dark?? 4) saving the police chief in Mumbattan and causing the "canon event" there despite -- again -- not being given any info about this and 5) pre-emptively knowing that Miles probably wouldn't want his dad to die. I meant more about the idea that every Spider-person has to suffer tragedy in order to learn to be more responsible and a better hero. Peter B Parker uses that to justify why it was "good" for Uncle Ben to die because it taught him about great responsibility. That's the justification for why letting people die is ultimately for the best. I do think that it is intentional that Miles starts off the movie completely loving up his first encounter with the Spot in large part because of his irresponsibility. I was just using the example of him unnecessarily escalating the situation as part of that. Even on the absolute surface he's incredibly late for an important interview and is still taking his sweet time making himself a snack and quipping instead of just webbing up Spot and leaving. Miles screwing around in the fight literally puts his dad in mortal danger multiple times, if that isn't meant to parallel the rest of the movie it's a heck of a coincidence. I also highly doubt it's a coincidence that Spot starts off as entirely non-violent and unthreatening and only becomes a threat when Miles refuses to take him seriously and insults him.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:48
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Nephthys posted:I meant more about the idea that every Spider-person has to suffer tragedy in order to learn to be more responsible and a better hero. Peter B Parker uses that to justify why it was "good" for Uncle Ben to die because it taught him about great responsibility. That's the justification for why letting people die is ultimately for the best. Miles literally already had his uncle die. He had that canon event. You are painting Miles acting like *every other Spider-Man* as a flaw and not how Spider-Man acts. If it was Peter and The Shocker you'd see the same behavior. 'Peter Parker is late for everything' is like a basic trait og the character. Miles is not different or out of place. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 23:29
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Spot definitely starts out as a low tier criminal and his journey into becoming a multiversal threat is entirely based on his desire for respect and the lack of it everyone gives him. He gets pretty mercilessly bullied for the first part of the film, with no one treating him with any sort of seriousness. This continues on even after his power spike. Miguel goes after Miles to stop him while just saying 'and someone here go catch Spot' very offhandidly without much care for it. Even after becoming an eldritch creature it's clear that Miguel has no respect for Spot as a threat, just like how Miles didn't, just like how Gwen didn't, just like how the villains in the deleted scene apparently didn't. The movie focuses over and over on Spot trying to force the nemesis level with Miles, going on and on about how You Created Me!!! But Miles ends up creating a much worse Spot with his insults and quips, in the end. He did create Spot, but during this movie, not during the first one.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:36
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The_Doctor posted:He said he pulled the spider from Earth-42, and at that moment (for about 0.25 of a second) you can see it was about to bite the Miles of that Earth… Aw man that's a great catch.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:36
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