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I think Stephen's income from his tenants is very modest. I think it's strongly implied that he doesn't bother to collect it most years. It really is just a ruin near a shepherd village. The land and castle might be worth quite a bit but Stephen clearly doesn't have the wherewithal to maintain it. Stephen after he inherits is a different story.
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Jun 2, 2023 14:44
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I looked it up - in peace-time, Stephen's tenants bring him "two or three hundred English pounds a year" (my estimate is that's about 20 or 30 thousand dollars a year in today's money). I may have got the 10 000 figure from Sophie & her sisters, who each have ten thousand pounds (presumably that's a lump sum, not per year). In comparison, Diana has a pension of 50 pounds a year.
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Jun 3, 2023 05:23
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Took a little break from reading these but finished up Ionian Mission the other day. Probably my least favourite of them so far, it really just felt oddly paced to me, like there is a lot of meandering until the last quarter? the last fifth even where it felt like the main meat of the story got crammed in, and it ends so abruptly, so much so I had to double check to make sure my copy wasn't missing some pages or something. It felt weirdly unfinished to me. Anyway I still enjoyed it because even the worst day O'Brian'ing is miles ahead of most other writers. I read the first part of the Lord of the Rings in the meantime and remembered how much I loathe poetry and lyrics in books, and every time I see that centre justified italics in LotR I have to steel myself to get through to the stuff I give a poo poo about (I'm going to assume this is heresy to some), yet ironically the part I came back to after my little break was the poetry competition between the captains and I was completely absorbed by it the whole time. Anyway I rolled straight in to Treason's Harbour and already the setup tells me I'm going to enjoy this one as it seems like it's going to follow the feel of Fortune of War.
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Jun 5, 2023 02:29
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My confession: I cannot for the life of me keep the book titles straight. I remember lots of scenes clearly but damned if I could tell you which books they're from, and if you mention the title of any book besides the first three I have not the faintest idea what happens in it 
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Jun 5, 2023 12:13
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Kylaer posted:My confession: I cannot for the life of me keep the book titles straight. I remember lots of scenes clearly but damned if I could tell you which books they're from, and if you mention the title of any book besides the first three I have not the faintest idea what happens in it It doesn't help that some of them feel like they end 2/3 of the way through, and the last 1/3 is the beginning of the next book.
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Jun 5, 2023 12:17
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Kylaer posted:My confession: I cannot for the life of me keep the book titles straight. I remember lots of scenes clearly but damned if I could tell you which books they're from, and if you mention the title of any book besides the first three I have not the faintest idea what happens in it It all bleeds together for me too fwiw, I'm in the back half and drat if I can keep it all straight
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Jun 5, 2023 13:53
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3 Action Economist posted:It doesn't help that some of them feel like they end 2/3 of the way through, and the last 1/3 is the beginning of the next book. Oh absolutely. I love the series, but towards the back half it becomes somewhat formulaic (the book generally ends 2/3s in, action takes place around chapter 10, etc). I love every book, but for me the series is at its best from master and commander through to the end of reverse of the medal.
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Jun 5, 2023 22:51
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The deeper I get into this series the more impressed I am with the film adaptation. Almost every book I’ve read so far has at least a line lifted from it in the film, you can tell it was a labor of love on the part of the filmmakers.screaden posted:Took a little break from reading these but finished up Ionian Mission the other day. Probably my least favourite of them so far, it really just felt oddly paced to me, like there is a lot of meandering until the last quarter? the last fifth even where it felt like the main meat of the story got crammed in, and it ends so abruptly, so much so I had to double check to make sure my copy wasn't missing some pages or something. It felt weirdly unfinished to me. Anyway I still enjoyed it because even the worst day O'Brian'ing is miles ahead of most other writers. You’re about where I am but I really loved Ionian Mission, I agree that it’s meandering through. I guess I just don’t mind it getting a little meandering if it’s because OBrian is showing us slices of life at sea. That ending action was great too.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:40
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Sax Solo posted:None of these are growth in a literary character sense, imho. After the first book with James Dillon around, Jack's papist-hating pretty much 1-1 corresponds to Stephen fat-shaming him and I don't think it's personal growth so much as a lack of Irish lieutenants to get pissed off about it. He is never challenged by accepting his son; he's easily able to display a warm, full acceptance of him. This is to Jack's credit, and it's the same thing that allows him to disarm and befriend Stephen in the first book. It's part of what makes Jack lovable and great -- but still IMHO not the kind of growth you are talking about. TBH I think it backs up my points more than yours. (And then the son kinda fucks off and doesn't matter.) Jack's journey on slavery goes from, "idk I'm a Tory" to like, "Phew slave ships are awful! What bad naval practices -- I guess slavery is pretty bad after all! Still, not gonna lie, would be nice to have a slave around the house, heheh." The shallowness of his change is explicit, and a kind of cynical comedy. (You could say, though, it reflects the POV of a friend who loves someone despite a lack of respect for them along some axes, and would note and remember such utterances and consider them telling...) There is truth to this, Jack is as if a fully fleshed Athena when we meet him and are continuously reminded of sailing and battle exploits that precede the novels which clearly made him the very capable commander of the Sophie...but at the same time, Post Captain is an incredibly important book in the canon. Jack is almost done in by both his rivalry with his best friend/surgeon, and almost experiences a mutiny on an absolutely ridiculous ship. In the ensuing novels he does learn from his mistakes and misfortune, his poor choices in romantic dalliances, his disrating...he is repeatedly severely wounded and recovers, almost has his marriage end and makes political blunders that he has to accept. This is a quick summary as I am supposed to be at work. Stephen throughout the novels muses and marvels at Jack's intellectual and creative growth, while also observing constants like his strength, his prowess and keenness in battle - all of which he is incapable of. Similarly, Jack muses upon Stephen's academic intellect, his prowess as a physician, in espionage, and so on. Almost as if there were two protagonists who were incredibly close friends and incredibly different people  Drunkboxer posted:The deeper I get into this series the more impressed I am with the film adaptation. Almost every book I’ve read so far has at least a line lifted from it in the film, you can tell it was a labor of love on the part of the filmmakers. I don't understand why people like the film. It is as miscast and as misrepresentative of inner world of the novels as I could imagine a film based on a very well written novel deeply invested in the inner world of its protagonists to be. The sets were fantastic, the acting and characterisation were abysmal. And hamfistedly leveraging plotlines from three separate novels in an extremely expensive film completely shattered any plausibility for a sequel, not that I'd want to see one with those characters. Bonden: a hobbit? Forsooth. Huggybear fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 19:16
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I have no idea how accurate it is but I always picture Bonden as being built like a brick shithouse.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:26
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not gonna quote the post about the movie being bad (including that…the acting is bad???wtf), just know that it’s the worst take I’ve seen today and I read fantasy football twitter
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Jun 7, 2023 21:42
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re: the movie: i agree on the hobbit, but other than that the movie is a masterpiece
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Jun 7, 2023 21:46
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buffalo all day posted:not gonna quote the post about the movie being bad (including that…the acting is bad???wtf), just know that it’s the worst take I’ve seen today and I read fantasy football twitter Oh I didn't realize you were the Grand Arbiter of Takes on on fantasy football twitter and therefore your opinion is automatically superior to mine. Congratulations, you seem both arrogant and, to borrow one of Stephen's favorite descriptors, "deeply stupid" at the same time. He had zero patience for people like that, interestingly. Have you ever had your nose wrung by a diminutive, yellowish, Irish-Catalanian bastard physician? That said, I used to be a member of the Aubrey/Maturin facebook group and it's mostly boomers posting terrible sloth memes, so maybe that's more your perspective If you want a good example of a masterpiece that is an excellent take on an excellent novel, look no further than the BBC miniseries Pride and Prejudice. If you want a hamfisted take on the same novel, look no further than the Kiera Knightley version of the same. If you don't understand why, study film theory, watch better cinema, or even read Jane Austen as it will deepen your appreciation for the nuance and sophistication of O'Brian's style and eye for conversational detail, and how this is completely ignored in the movie; and, how it could have been. Good for you that you liked the movie, I loving adore the kung fu genre but in no way am I going around pronouncing my absolute favorite, Ip Man, a "masterpiece" - there are gradients of objective quality in cinema, and action movies rarely transcend "an engaging distraction" even if the movie is dear to my heart for various subjective and sentimental reasons. e: Yes, Bonden would have to have been exceptionally strong - he is often steering the ships in storms which would require immense strength, along with lifting the doctor up the rigging, the boxing match...which is, as I mentioned, another reason the movie is terrible, it is utterly miscast. Aside from Russell Crowe's complete mishandling of Aubrey's character, Paul Bettany reduces Stephen to a peevish adolescent, and even at his normal size Billy Boyd looks like he's five years old. Honestly it seems like the director, casting director and cast only read the script and not the novels themselves, and the script writer was an idiot for reasons I have already clarified. Huggybear fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 8, 2023 |
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Jun 8, 2023 03:08
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I always enjoyed the contrast between Jack and Stephen when it comes to violence. Jack loves a fight, but only if the other side has a fair chance, even if he ambushes someone by looking like a merchant, they could have figured it out and got away. Stephen on the other hand is a killer when he needs to be, taking every advantage and will just straight murder someone with them unexpecting if he has to.
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Jun 8, 2023 03:11
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Stephen's gooniness, like his ugliness, is heavily self-reported, and I think an omniscient narrator could draw a very interesting portrait. Bettany did a yoemanlike job portraying him but didn't explore this at all
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Jun 8, 2023 03:23
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Huggybear posted:Oh I didn't realize you were the Grand Arbiter of Takes on on fantasy football twitter and therefore your opinion is automatically superior to mine. Congratulations, you seem both arrogant and, to borrow one of Stephen's favorite descriptors, "deeply stupid" at the same time. He had zero patience for people like that, interestingly. Have you ever had your nose wrung by a diminutive, yellowish, Irish-Catalanian bastard physician?  the best part of this meltdown is it was triggered by a complete misunderstanding of me just saying I see a lot of bad takes
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Jun 8, 2023 03:40
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Huggybear posted:Oh I didn't realize you were the Grand Arbiter of Takes on on fantasy football twitter and therefore your opinion is automatically superior to mine. Congratulations, you seem both arrogant and, to borrow one of Stephen's favorite descriptors, "deeply stupid" at the same time. He had zero patience for people like that, interestingly. Have you ever had your nose wrung by a diminutive, yellowish, Irish-Catalanian bastard physician? Wowzers
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Jun 8, 2023 03:42
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Threads are now battlefields
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Jun 8, 2023 03:54
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Who let Pym and Clonfert in here?
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Jun 8, 2023 04:40
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Huggybear posted:Oh I didn't realize you were the Grand Arbiter of Takes on on fantasy football twitter and therefore your opinion is automatically superior to mine. Congratulations, you seem both arrogant and, to borrow one of Stephen's favorite descriptors, "deeply stupid" at the same time. He had zero patience for people like that, interestingly. Have you ever had your nose wrung by a diminutive, yellowish, Irish-Catalanian bastard physician? hurr
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Jun 8, 2023 09:12
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Nice meltdown. I always pictured Bonden as like, Herc from The Wire with long hair and pigtails. My headcanon Maturin is Eddie Marsan in the BBC Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Also Ip Man is a masterpiece. A Proper Uppercut fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jun 8, 2023 |
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Jun 8, 2023 11:25
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Kei Technical posted:Stephen's gooniness, like his ugliness, is heavily self-reported, and I think an omniscient narrator could draw a very interesting portrait. Bettany did a yoemanlike job portraying him but didn't explore this at all Yeah I generally don’t get extremely hung up on the cast’s physical appearance, though Stephen is probably the most different looking in the movie from my mind’s eye. I really like Bettany’s performance as Jack’s particular friend but yeah there’s not a lot of room to explore Stephen too deeply. They made the decision to focus on life aboard an age of sail warship and Jack and Stephen being buds, which are the two strongest (imo) elements of the novels. They don’t go ashore so there’s no room for spycraft or Austeny romance or bad business decisions but there’s nothing in the adaptation to negate those elements and there’s even a few easter eggs referencing them. With regards to Bonden’s casting I never pictured him as hulking. Maybe I’m forgetting a description of him to the contrary but I pictured him and pretty much anyone else on crew as having lean muscles unless specifically described differently. You don’t get sick gains from eating weevily biscuits and portable soup. The fact that Jack stays fat is one of his heroic properties. edit: Re: Huggybear I understand being bummed things are cut out from an adaptation of a novel but the point of a film adaptation isn’t to transliterate the book to the screen in the most accurate way possible. There’s a lot of bad movies out there that adhere to the source material really closely (like The Road). Drunkboxer fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Jun 8, 2023 |
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Jun 8, 2023 11:58
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Huggybear posted:gradients of objective quality Mods please change my name thanks in advance
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Jun 8, 2023 13:19
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I wouldn’t imagine Bonden looking like Dave Bautista, but I also have a hard time picturing the boxing champion of the fleet looking like Billy Boyd. That and Bettany were my major casting gripes, even though I found the actual acting (subjectively) fine.
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Jun 8, 2023 20:00
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Bettany is too tall and too handsome for Maturin, and yeah Bonden isn't a hobbit, but I mean 
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Jun 8, 2023 20:13
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what's this
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Jun 8, 2023 20:18
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Fire Safety Doug posted:I wouldn’t imagine Bonden looking like Dave Bautista, but I also have a hard time picturing the boxing champion of the fleet looking like Billy Boyd. That and Bettany were my major casting gripes, even though I found the actual acting (subjectively) fine. Bettany is too gorgeous a man to have played Maturin, but the chemistry he had with Crowe more than made up for it. I had no trouble believing the bromance.
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Jun 8, 2023 22:39
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I'm going to selectively cut a piece from that weird rant like I'm cutting around rancid salt beef but I don't mind at all when an adaptation to different media takes a different path. Things that work in a book don't work in a movie. Stephen as described in the book would be....distracting I think, especially with a short amount of time to explore his character. Bettany at least is unconventionally attractive. In the book Aubrey being as big as he is but still a graceful swimmer/yard rigger/etc gives an interesting contrast. In a movie he'd look slovenly (Crowe was pretty cut then though. Hilariously he looks much more like older book Aubrey now). Drunkboxer posted:I really like Bettany’s performance as Jack’s particular friend but yeah there’s not a lot of room to explore Stephen too deeply. They made the decision to focus on life aboard an age of sail warship and Jack and Stephen being buds, which are the two strongest (imo) elements of the novels. They don’t go ashore so there’s no room for spycraft or Austeny romance or bad business decisions but there’s nothing in the adaptation to negate those elements and there’s even a few easter eggs referencing them. This is a great take. You can't shove an entire book into a 2 hour movie, much less 16 of them. So they took the important bits and I think it worked well.
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Jun 9, 2023 16:07
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I’d love to see a modern prestige tv show take on these books. 8-12 high budget episodes per season. It would be amazing.
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Jun 9, 2023 17:25
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It'd be awesome, but the I don't think you'd ever get the budget needed for a period show about 19th century english white men.
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Jun 9, 2023 20:51
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The Lord Bude posted:I’d love to see a modern prestige tv show take on these books. 8-12 high budget episodes per season. It would be amazing. Someone post the picture. you know the one
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Jun 10, 2023 08:53
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Nuclear War posted:Someone post the picture. you know the one 
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Jun 10, 2023 12:23
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Lockback posted:I'm going to selectively cut a piece from that weird rant like I'm cutting around rancid salt beef but I don't mind at all when an adaptation to different media takes a different path. Things that work in a book don't work in a movie. Stephen as described in the book would be....distracting I think, especially with a short amount of time to explore his character. Bettany at least is unconventionally attractive. In the book Aubrey being as big as he is but still a graceful swimmer/yard rigger/etc gives an interesting contrast. In a movie he'd look slovenly (Crowe was pretty cut then though. Hilariously he looks much more like older book Aubrey now). If there is ever a world where the books get remade into a series I’d love for old man Crowe to play General Aubrey. Also, re: Bonden chat, I’ve always pictured him as Jason Statham for some reason haha.
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Jun 10, 2023 18:57
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So, today I went to the maritime museum of San diego which has the HMS Surprise there (the one used in the movie). A) cool as gently caress. B) I knew that ship was small but good god is it small. C) I couldn't get a sense of how small the gundeck actually would be in a proper 20-gun 6th rate. On the ship there, they basically have the guns on a raised platform about knee-height from the deck of the "gun deck", and the area open to visitors is just the gun deck and upper deck. Standing in the gundeck I easily had head clearance, but if the true deck height would have been at the level of the elevated gun platforms, it would have been maybe a 5 foot tall deck space at most. I know those ships were cramped as hell, but that honestly seems like it could cause issues with speed and ability to load cannon that stooped over. And, the books mention that tall people have issues with hitting their heads, not literally everyone all the time. On the other hand, that small deck space seemed like the guns were at the right height and the carriage seemed about right too, so it wasn't like they used a small carriage to make it fit. So, how tall was the Surprise's gun deck? E: they also said the rations for that era as listed in the full allotment would have been something like 4000 kcals/day.
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Jun 11, 2023 01:35
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The San Diego Maritime Museum rules. If I remember correctly they way overgunned the movie Suprise because accurate cannons wouldn't have looked as imposing. In reality her guns would have been much smaller, but they certainly look cool.
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Jun 11, 2023 08:36
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‘Where is the Doctor?’ he asked some time later, when the Surprise was tearing away southwards under a perfectly astonishing show of sail with the wind on her quarter. ‘Well, sir,’ said Pullings. ‘It seems he was up all night – the gunner’s wife taken ill – and now he and the chaplain are at peace by the gunroom stove at last, spreading out their beetles. But he says that if he is given a direct order to come and enjoy himself in the cold driving rain if not sleet too as well as a tempest of wind he will of course be delighted to obey.’
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Jun 26, 2023 17:18
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quote:As far as nations went, he did not think that there was the least parallel between the United States and France. The states had an active and vocal public opinion - he had read their papers, mostly written in a steady shriek of indignation, with astonishment - whereas the extremely efficient tyranny in France had almost entirely gagged it... American political discourse distilled into 5 words, a steady shriek of indignation...
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Jun 27, 2023 16:25
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Another good quote, it's always fun when the narration plays along with the jokes.quote:‘Mr Davidge, how came you to speak so petulantly to me last night as to say “Don’t you ever go to bed?” ’
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Jun 29, 2023 07:48
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I like the film, but I don't like it much as an adaptation. Somehow the thing that annoys me most is the touch of OH OUR PRECIOUS LADS kind of juvenile propaganda framing. (I think maybe book enjoyers don't notice that framing because we're like: Yes, these are my precious lads.) Vs the books where like midshipmen drop like flies and there's not really time to mourn the dead ever... and generally there is no hint of the idea that glory makes it all worth it, there is no soft focus or silent slow mo struggling. The (lack of) sentimentality in the books is important and interesting I think. (NB gentlemanly humanism is not the same thing.)
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Jun 30, 2023 16:37
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Pwnstar posted:Another good quote, it's always fun when the narration plays along with the jokes. One of my favorite ongoing jokes is that the entirety of Surprise, crew and officers all, think Steven is a lecherous, violent drunk, and absolutely love him for it.
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Jun 30, 2023 21:06
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