(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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HonorableTB posted:Go to r/Ukraine and talk to their mod staff for charitable/volunteer verification. They have a whole process for in-country volunteers. I'm taking the assumption that you're either going regardless or already there, so stay safe Thanks, that'll help. I'm already in process for getting connected to the relevant parties but this is one more resource. Appreciate the pointer.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:40
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| # ? May 30, 2024 16:48 |
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Roblo posted:Normally there would be a pretty comprehensive maintenance regime on any infrastructure that important, I doubt Russia was doing any of that I mean, unless this is proven to be caused by direct Ukrainian shelling, at the very least this is criminal neglence by Russia. There are very few ways this isn't Russia's fault and I think European governments responding to it appropriately (denouncing it, kicking out diplomats etc) is the right way to go. That's on top of Russia creating the conditions where we even have to discuss issues of fault on a crime this huge. Without a Russian invasion, we wouldn't be here. I am loving disgusted by all this. Just utterly loving disgusted.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:25
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Oldsmobile posted:I mean, unless this is proven to be caused by direct Ukrainian shelling, at the very least this is criminal neglence by Russia. There are very few ways this isn't Russia's fault and I think European governments responding to it appropriately (denouncing it, kicking out diplomats etc) is the right way to go. It'll be easy to prove it wasn't caused by direct Ukrainian shelling because Ukraine does not possess anything that can take down the dam from the outside. This was done by an internal detonation where the energy is focused outward, the dam itself was made of thick reinforced concrete and attacking it from outside would have redirected most of the energy away. Russia blew it from the inside, we knew they mined it twice already and also detonated the service road during their retreat from Kherson
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Jun 7, 2023 20:54
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Has there been any new footage of the state of the dam itself from today? Would be interesting to see if it has collapsed more or the remnants are holding. Twitter is just flooded with propaganda making it basically impossible to find useful information. On that note, pro-Russian accounts keep posting about how Ukraine is responsible because they released (and keep releasing) excessive water from upstream. Not sure why I bothered to check, but yeah, it's BS upstream reservoirs are filled to the expected level so there was no additional release.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:15
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HonorableTB posted:It'll be easy to prove it wasn't caused by direct Ukrainian shelling because Ukraine does not possess anything that can take down the dam from the outside. This was done by an internal detonation where the energy is focused outward, the dam itself was made of thick reinforced concrete and attacking it from outside would have redirected most of the energy away. Russia blew it from the inside, we knew they mined it twice already and also detonated the service road during their retreat from Kherson Pretty sure Storm Shadow is designed to penetrate a structure before exploding, and it's got a big warhead. The dam wasn't exactly the biggest structure either from what I could see, and was in a ropey condition. Dams are beefy but they're not designed to counter munitions. I don't disagree that it was probably the Russians detonating something from inside it but I don't think a strike is impossible. *Note - not in the slightest way a missile expert, but I did read a tiny section of the storm shadow wiki page so in a way I am an expert.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:17
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true.spoon posted:I was a bit surprised by this and tried to google this. From what I found there was a single time anti-personnel mines were used by the US in Afghanistan: The M86 looks significantly less like a toy than the PFM-1.  But obviously it was lovely that it got the same coloration as food packets. The PFM-1 does look a lot like the dragontooth mine the US used in Vietnam, though:  However, following Vietnam the US discontinued its use and afaik haven't since developed toy-like mines. Another one of those "the US did it too" stories in that it happened at all but where the US did not apply it with the same consistent enthusiasm across theaters and decades. (not defending the use of BLU-43 in any theater.) Roblo posted:That's the only thing that makes me consider that it could be Ukraine. But I very very much doubt they would do it. Putting Kherson (which is Ukranian) underwater is not a good look. hardly seems worth it, and they've pretty consistently not done this kind of "gently caress you civilians!! now what enemy  " poo pooe: especially considering that the most affected by this dam's destruction are Ukrainian civilians, plus Crimea is Ukraine neamp posted:Has there been any new footage of the state of the dam itself from today? Would be interesting to see if it has collapsed more or the remnants are holding. even if Ukraine were releasing "excessive" water from upstream, you could just ... open the gates. tiaz fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 21:21
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Whether it was Russia or Ukraine who caused the disaster, it wouldn't have happened if Russia hasn't decided to invade. Russia are ultimately responsible. The sooner they can be pushed back to their cesspit of a country for a few decades of timeout on the international stage the better.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:40
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Roblo posted:Pretty sure Storm Shadow is designed to penetrate a structure before exploding, and it's got a big warhead. The dam wasn't exactly the biggest structure either from what I could see, and was in a ropey condition. Dams are beefy but they're not designed to counter munitions.  at "I don't know anything about this and skimmed wiki for five seconds so I'm totally sure it'd work." why even bother posting this if you know you don't know poo poo?
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Jun 7, 2023 21:50
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Kchama posted:
A sense of pride and accomplishment.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:56
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Roblo posted:Pretty sure Storm Shadow is designed to penetrate a structure before exploding, and it's got a big warhead. The dam wasn't exactly the biggest structure either from what I could see, and was in a ropey condition. Dams are beefy but they're not designed to counter munitions. Why would the Ukrainians want to gently caress up their amphibious assault on Kherson?
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Jun 7, 2023 22:03
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Roblo posted:Dams are beefy but they're not designed to counter munitions. yes they are, they always have been, it's why the bouncing bomb was useful in ww2, why not just Google that part of your thought first lmao
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Jun 7, 2023 22:04
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The overarching reason why Ukraine didn't do this is because they are fighting a war to save their land and people and it's really hard to do that if you cause the biggest environmental catastrophe since Chernobyl, incidentally also in Ukraine. Also Storm Shadows were meant to penetrate common bunkers and caves, hard rock surface. It wasn't intended to penetrate a meters-thick dam made of steel reinforced concrete designed to hold back water equal to roughly 1/3 of Delaware's land area. About the best you could get from a Storm Shadow is taking out the Kerch bridge supports, which would be within its capabilities. It's a LOT easier to drop a bridge with munitions than it is to bust a dam open. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 22:05
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got some hot info: looking at weeks old Google maps photos it appears the water has receded. i assume very sunny weather did it, just Google evaporation
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Jun 7, 2023 22:07
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https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1666397509911031810?s=20 loving Russians, I can't even.
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Jun 7, 2023 22:10
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:got some hot info: looking at weeks old Google maps photos it appears the water has receded. i assume very sunny weather did it, just Google evaporation HATO must have activated the HAARP weather control machine !! 
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Jun 7, 2023 22:11
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Dwesa posted:Regarding the fate of Russian soldiers that were digging trenches in irradiated soil Really want a video where they show one of these guys a Russian dub of the HBO Chernobyl docudrama and explain "That's what that big building over there was."
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Jun 7, 2023 22:12
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:yes they are, they always have been, it's why the bouncing bomb was useful in ww2, why not just Google that part of your thought first lmao I think you're mixing up cause and effect
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Jun 7, 2023 22:14
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Bluemillion posted:Really want a video where they show one of these guys a Russian dub of the HBO Chernobyl docudrama and explain "That's what that big building over there was." 
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Jun 7, 2023 22:16
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Tiny Timbs posted:I think you're mixing up cause and effect in what way? dambusters didn't precede munitions as a safety concern for dams
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Jun 7, 2023 22:22
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:in what way? dambusters didn't precede munitions as a safety concern for dams The bouncing bomb was a special designed bomb that required a very exact attack profile and also placement in the depths of the water storage to work - Too far away did nothing. Just throwing a missile or hurling a handful of artillery will not work. One of the bouncing bombs exploded at the base of a dam and didnt even scratch it CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 22:33
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The bouncing bomb was a special designed bomb that required a very exact attack profile and also placement in the depths of the water storage to work - too close or too far away did nothing. Just throwing a missile or hurling a handful of artillery will not work. One of the bouncing bombs exploded at the base of a dam and didnt even scratch it On that topic, https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1666458944091324417
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Jun 7, 2023 22:34
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Kchama posted:
My last comment was sarcasm, clearly should have made that more clear. I do have a bit of understanding of dams/structures. From what I could see from the footage it was a control structure that was blown, not all dams are identical and you wouldn't have to take out the entire thing to cause this kind of damage. Either way I'm not disagreeing with anyone, its clearly the Russians fault, just from what I could see Storm Shadow could potentially do it. Seems I was wrong. Tarkus posted:Why would the Ukrainians want to gently caress up their amphibious assault on Kherson? This would open up more possibilities for amphibious assault upstream. Again, not saying they did it - Ukraine hasn't shown any inclination to fight like that so far and gently caress up their own country but there would be "positives" tactically to doing that, I'm pretty sure. Douche Wolf 89 posted:yes they are, they always have been, it's why the bouncing bomb was useful in ww2, why not just Google that part of your thought first lmao There is a difference between being designed against munitions and being generally resistant to them for other reasons. That said, looking at the tweet in the post above mine this one is apparently designed to withstand a nuclear attack, that's, erm, not exactly standard where I'm from. Jesus. Roblo fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 22:48
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https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1666464813084549126?t=4WhCyd5zVWg0NLbX1-ILwg&s=19
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Jun 7, 2023 22:53
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1666445518719930371
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Jun 7, 2023 23:00
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Tankie simping has been loving terrible today. I'm starting to think that if russia nuked Ukraine that they would still find some reason to actually it away or what about Hiroshima
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Jun 7, 2023 23:19
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Hiroshima was 15KT. The bong dropped on Kyiv was 10MT Clearly the US is the aggressor in the comparison because 15 bigger than 10
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Jun 7, 2023 23:24
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Tai posted:Tankie simping has been loving terrible today. I'm starting to think that if russia nuked Ukraine that they would still find some reason to actually it away or what about Hiroshima
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Jun 7, 2023 23:29
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Hiroshima was 15KT. 10 megatokes is still a lot 
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Jun 7, 2023 23:32
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Bluemillion posted:Really want a video where they show one of these guys a Russian dub of the HBO Chernobyl docudrama and explain "That's what that big building over there was." Why would they watch gay Max of the west when they can watch Chernobyl series of Alexey Muradov in which CIA agent did Chernobyl
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Jun 7, 2023 23:34
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Hiroshima was 15KT. poo poo ten megatokes will stone half of Ukraine
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Jun 7, 2023 23:40
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beer_war posted:https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1666397509911031810?s=20 loving Russians, I can't even. Actually you will find that whether or not they had a zoo, they currently do not have one.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:48
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There is, however, a fairly large aquarium.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:48
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Ukrainians are complaining about dead zoo and yet they have pizza 
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Jun 7, 2023 23:52
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Aquariums generally have living animals, so technically this is more of a soup.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:55
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Tunicate posted:Actually you will find that whether or not they had a zoo, they currently do not have one. We Blyat a Zoo
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Jun 8, 2023 00:00
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I'm surprised they didn't attach depth charges to the zoo animals
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Jun 8, 2023 00:01
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lol at Albania dunking on Russia
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Jun 8, 2023 00:07
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Sedgr posted:Aquariums generally have living animals, so technically this is more of a soup. Blyat, you got a stew going.
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Jun 8, 2023 00:12
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https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1666497486964285448 loving hell. Just full on mask off fash. There was another country who talked like this 80 years ago... And tankies simp for this lot lol
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Jun 8, 2023 00:15
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| # ? May 30, 2024 16:48 |
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Tai posted:https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1666497486964285448 Yeah but did you know that Ukraine banned a couple of political parties that were collaborating with the Invaders?
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Jun 8, 2023 00:19
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