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Well well. I'm not American and so I'm legitimately asking, and not trying to be a "This doesn't matter at all" kind of person. What does this mean for Trump's chances of winning the Republican nomination and being the nominee in the general election? He can still run and even win, right (FWIW I don't think he will win in 2024, but he could?)? Yeah, let's make this the first post of the page.
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Jun 9, 2023 01:41
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He can, of course. He will be running specifically on pardoning himself. and in other Trump news: Apparently Trump is real shook because his folks told em "Don't worry, you won't be indicted, and if you are, we can tie it up in jurisdictional stuff forever" https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1666964960516227074.html
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Jun 9, 2023 01:43
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Fabulous Knight posted:Well well. I'm not American and so I'm legitimately asking, and not trying to be a "This doesn't matter at all" kind of person. What does this mean for Trump's chances of winning the Republican nomination and being the nominee in the general election? He can still run and even win, right? IMO, most likely scenario is that it cements his victory in the primary and dooms him in the general. He can indeed legally continue to run and even win
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Jun 9, 2023 01:43
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I think we've solved the mystery of the orange skies. It isn't from smoke from Wildfires, it's from Donald "Trumple's-Thinskin" Trump blowing his top that he might actually be in real trouble.
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Jun 9, 2023 01:46
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NYTimes: “Mr. Trump was charged with a total of seven counts, including willfully retaining national defense secrets in violation of the Espionage Act, making false statements and an obstruction of justice conspiracy, according to people familiar with the matter.”
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Jun 9, 2023 01:59
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Piell posted:IMO, most likely scenario is that it cements his victory in the primary and dooms him in the general. He can indeed legally continue to run and even win He can even run (and win) in prison!
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Jun 9, 2023 01:59
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Violation of the Espionage Act means he's barred from politics if convicted? While I'd love to see him rot in prison/house arrest in a Faraday cage, I will accept that his efforts at a political career are over. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 02:02
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Wayback posted:Would Espionage be its own charge or would they be under that as an umbrella? Willful retention violates the Espionage Act, yes.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:03
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Nitrousoxide posted:On the other hand, if he's that desperate and still loses the primary, I could see him saying "gently caress it, I'm still running" because he'd have nothing to lose. Man, I loving hope so. I hate Donald Trump. Nitrousoxide posted:Then you'd get a Biden Oh..well...Nevertheless...
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Jun 9, 2023 02:03
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PainterofCrap posted:Violation of the Espionage Act means he's barred from politics if convicted? I don't think so
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Jun 9, 2023 02:03
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PainterofCrap posted:Violation of the Espionage Act means he's barred from politics if convicted? No, the rules governing who can run for president are set by the Constitution. Any law that purports to add more eligibility restrictions to an office created by the Constitution would have that section thrown out or declared inapplicable by a judge, because a mere act of Congress can't overrule it. That would require an amendment. Fuschia tude fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 02:10
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Presumably a violation of secrets acts would at least remove and restrict security clearances. It would be quite interesting to have a sitting president who can't actually be informed of data relevant to the role, not that awareness is mandatory or anything. The one standard whackos site I know has started their meltdown. "Impeach Biden, moving to Russia, the country needs burnt down and restarted especially DC,...". Tho one I found most telling, "The Italian mafia were such great businessmen the DOJ had to go after them, some thing here". It's not yet the meltdown of epic proportions, but they have all weekend to get butthurt before Tuesday. Being after 5pm EDT, I had relegated myself to "next week", but now  
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Jun 9, 2023 02:11
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PainterofCrap posted:Violation of the Espionage Act means he's barred from politics if convicted? I don't think anything but being too young, not a natural born citizen, or having already had 2 terms (or 2.49 terms if you took over as the vice president after the then President's half way point) will prevent you from running as President or VP.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:13
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Presumably a violation of secrets acts would at least remove and restrict security clearances. It would be quite interesting to have a sitting president who can't actually be informed of data relevant to the role, not that awareness is mandatory or anything. The president doesn't need a security clearance. They get to see classified documents because they were elected by the people. The rules regarding classification don't trump power granted by an elected office.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:13
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PainterofCrap posted:Violation of the Espionage Act means he's barred from politics if convicted? You're thinking of the 14th amendment, which has been used successfully on an rear end in a top hat in Arizona who was at the 1/6 party.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:15
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Presumably a violation of secrets acts would at least remove and restrict security clearances. It would be quite interesting to have a sitting president who can't actually be informed of data relevant to the role, not that awareness is mandatory or anything. My understanding is that the President can override decisions on a security clearance (Trump did it for at least one of his idiot kids), so he'd probably do that right after he pardoned himself.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:15
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Fabulous Knight posted:Well well. I'm not American and so I'm legitimately asking, and not trying to be a "This doesn't matter at all" kind of person. What does this mean for Trump's chances of winning the Republican nomination and being the nominee in the general election? He can still run and even win, right (FWIW I don't think he will win in 2024, but he could?)? The 60-70% of the GOP that are magaCHUDs, fundie deplorable fascists and 4channer nazis will vote for him no matter what. They got a taste, they want the full meal.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:16
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Charliegrs posted:Isn't that basically what every election in our lifetime has been I mean, let's not retroactively normalize, okay? The goppers we would've gotten and did get before sucked out loud, some worse than others, but there's a million miles of respect for the basic concept "democracy is good" between them and today's party.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:17
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Missed it by this much https://twitter.com/Title9Jen/status/1666663320542380038
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Jun 9, 2023 02:19
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I just remembered that there's quite a few countries where you're automatically barred from entry if you've got a felony conviction, so I wonder if that'll mean Trump can't go visit his stupid golf courses in Scotland any more.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:20
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https://twitter.com/EdKrassen/status/1666978163660865536
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Jun 9, 2023 02:28
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azflyboy posted:I just remembered that there's quite a few countries where you're automatically barred from entry if you've got a felony conviction, so I wonder if that'll mean Trump can't go visit his stupid golf courses in Scotland any more. Automatically barred, yes, but that can be waived by folks in power. Anywhere Trump has friends in high places can simply let him in. Scotland is likely to anyway simply because he's a major property owner there.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:33
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CapnAndy posted:Not unless you're 7. George W. Bush was put into office by a partisan Supreme Court decision out of line with conventional understanding of the law. The suit producing that decision was the result of a recount going unfinished. The recount went unfinished because Republican staffers stormed a Miami-Dade meeting of election canvassers, assaulting the people working there, in a riot initiated at the orders of John Sweeney, a Republican member of the House of Representatives. Let's not normalize that.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:34
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Sir Kodiak posted:The president doesn't need a security clearance. They get to see classified documents because they were elected by the people. The rules regarding classification don't trump power granted by an elected office.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:39
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Sir Kodiak posted:George W. Bush was put into office by a partisan Supreme Court decision out of line with conventional understanding of the law. The suit producing that decision was the result of a recount going unfinished. The recount went unfinished because Republican staffers stormed a Miami-Dade meeting of election canvassers, assaulting the people working there, in a riot initiated at the orders of John Sweeney, a Republican member of the House of Representatives. Let's not normalize that. TBF that's some shady skullduggery that most people aren't aware of, which miles away from "Vote for me for president so I can pardon my own crimes "
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Jun 9, 2023 02:40
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it's no coincidence that ratfucker Roger Stone was involved with Nixon, Dubbya's bullshit win and of course still involved with Dumb Donnie.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:44
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Sir Kodiak posted:George W. Bush was put into office by a partisan Supreme Court decision out of line with conventional understanding of the law. The suit producing that decision was the result of a recount going unfinished. The recount went unfinished because Republican staffers stormed a Miami-Dade meeting of election canvassers, assaulting the people working there, in a riot initiated at the orders of John Sweeney, a Republican member of the House of Representatives. Let's not normalize that. Dude was absolutely the worst President in living memory before ol' trumpy. He also wasn't a tenth of the fascist that trump or desantis are.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:49
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Could the broad scope of the many indictments result in discovery of correspondences between Trump and (for example) flynn, stone, bannon, giuliani, (etc)?
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Jun 9, 2023 02:51
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Uglycat posted:Could the broad scope of the many indictments result in discovery of correspondences between Trump and (for example) flynn, stone, bannon, giuliani, (etc)? That's likely in the 1/6 investigation. We'll find out when that one drops. It might also be part of the Georgia vote-meddling case.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:53
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Might one of the counts be destruction of documents? I don't recall specific mention of MAL materials going missing, but some of the empty folders may have revealed documents that were "lost", and there were certainly lots of WH stories about flushings.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:55
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Xand_Man posted:TBF that's some shady skullduggery that most people aren't aware of, which miles away from "Vote for me for president so I can pardon my own crimes " If you want to say Trump is more blatant about it, if you find that disturbing, fair enough, I agree. But the claim I responded to was in regards to the prior GOP having a respect for democracy, which I struggle to square with a violent assault on the people counting ballots. CapnAndy posted:Yeah, and he was an authoritarian motherfucker with his "free speech zones" and his cancel culture bullshit and his "you agree with me 100% or you're a terrist" nonsense and the willful gaslighting of not just the country, but the entire world. And I'd take a hundred of him again, because at no point during his reign did I have any fear that the next elections simply would not happen. Being more scared of the guy with a failed insurrection than the guy who successfully stole an election seems a bit backwards and I am baffled by your seeming to place it on the same level of severity as "cancel culture bullshit."
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Jun 9, 2023 02:58
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CapnAndy posted:Yeah, and he was an authoritarian motherfucker with his "free speech zones" and his cancel culture bullshit and his "you agree with me 100% or you're a terrist" nonsense and the willful gaslighting of not just the country, but the entire world. And I'd take a hundred of him again, because at no point during his reign did I have any fear that the next elections simply would not happen. Unfortunately, I dont think you can have 100 bushes without getting 200 Trumps. It's the 'good' republicans who greased the skids for the virulent ones.
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Jun 9, 2023 02:58
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Sir Kodiak posted:and I am baffled by your seeming to place it on the same level of severity as "cancel culture bullshit." I think they are referring to the Bush freaks starting all the "Let's murder the Dixie Chicks for not loving Jesus and Dubbya enough!" type bullshit.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:05
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A quick Trump Legal Tangles Summary 1. Stormy Daniels hush-money -> tax fraud case in NY Status: Indicted 30+ counts of felony tax fraud, trial scheduled for 3/25/2024 2. Maralago Classified Documents case in South Florida Status: Indicted 7 felony counts, including violation of Espionage Act, Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice, and making false statements; no arraignment or trial date as yet 3. January 6 probe USDOJ is still investigating. 4. Georgia election tampering Investigation apparently done or nearly so. Indictments expected in August. 5. Trump business practices in NY Letitia James is investigating tax fraud in the Trump Organization. Current status unknown. Shooting Blanks posted:Don't forget that he's contesting the E Jean Carroll lawsuit outcome, asking for either a reduced penalty or a new trial. 6. E. Jean Carroll Sexual Assault/Rape civil lawsuit case Status: Indicted, tried, found liable Fined $5M. Further libeled Carroll in CNN townhall inverview, so she's resuing to boost damages to $10M. He's appealing and countersuing. Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 03:07
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Don't forget that he's contesting the E Jean Carroll lawsuit outcome, asking for either a reduced penalty or a new trial.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:10
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Sir Kodiak posted:George W. Bush was put into office by a partisan Supreme Court decision out of line with conventional understanding of the law. The suit producing that decision was the result of a recount going unfinished. The recount went unfinished because Republican staffers stormed a Miami-Dade meeting of election canvassers, assaulting the people working there Well, except for the part where Gore cherry-picked left-leaning counties to stack the Florida recount in his favor, which is a pretty clear violation of Equal Protection.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:12
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Shooting Blanks posted:Don't forget that he's contesting the E Jean Carroll lawsuit outcome, asking for either a reduced penalty or a new trial. That's a civil case, though, not criminal.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:14
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https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1666985342782652416 Charges include witness tampering. (stated as USC 18 1512 in the video) The court site apparently crashed, but it was noticed that the sealed indictment was adjacent to five others that were sealed. Speculation is there are at least two and perhaps five defendants. ps Source for second person. https://themessenger.com/politics/second-person-expected-to-be-charged-in-trump-case-source-exclusive (and a conspiracy charge requires at least the people, of course) PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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Jun 9, 2023 03:15
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The Something Awful Forums > Debate & Discussion › Trump Legal Troubles: C U Next Tuesday
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Jun 9, 2023 03:27
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Well, except for the part where Gore cherry-picked left-leaning counties to stack the Florida recount in his favor, which is a pretty clear violation of Equal Protection. The Florida Supreme Court agreed, which is why they ordered the statewide hand recount that Sir Kodiak was referring to. That's the one the US Supreme Court halted and, in a "oh god never use this as precedent" decision, handed the election to Bush.
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Jun 9, 2023 03:31
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