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PainterofCrap posted:How many of you even have drain cleaner in your home? I have muriatic acid for the "I don't have time for this poo poo" when the trap isn't enough. Can't say I've used it in the last decade because while it works, it doesn't last as long as manually auguring things out. (I have some poorly sloped drains that aren't bad enough to rip up drywall until one or more rooms are being remodeled - in both the old house - now resolved - and the new house)
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Jun 4, 2023 15:06
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I'm reading it can be risky to flush a water heater that hasn't been maintained in a while, in case the sediment is the only the plugging a leak. Mine has probably never been flushed, looks like it was manufactured in 2016. Should I be worried? I'd rather not get a plumber.
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Jun 4, 2023 20:46
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Jenkl posted:I'm reading it can be risky to flush a water heater that hasn't been maintained in a while, in case the sediment is the only the plugging a leak. I hear people saying poo poo like this a lot of the time, including when people get water softeners installed "BUT WHAT IF THE LIMESCALE FROM MY WATER IS THE ONLY THING KEEPING MY PIPES TOGETHER" and it's like no, that is never the case. Aside from that, I've also never heard of anyone needing to "flush" a water heater.
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Jun 4, 2023 21:08
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PurpleXVI posted:Aside from that, I've also never heard of anyone needing to "flush" a water heater. Then you probably shouldn't give advice about water heaters. Jenkl posted:I'm reading it can be risky to flush a water heater that hasn't been maintained in a while, in case the sediment is the only the plugging a leak. I'm assuming this is a tanked heater: It's less things that could be plugging a leak and more breaking things to the point where you need to fix or replace because they haven't been exercised before like valves. Break the drain valve and you just might break the tank trying to unscrew it to replace the whole thing, for example. I'd say you're on the edge of whether I'd want to attempt flushing it or not. You'll almost definitely need to snake out the drain valve because it's probably totally plugged unless you have excellent water quality with no hardness or sediment. I would have a hose cap or valve on hand to screw onto the drain in case you find it won't close/drips when closed. And absolutely positively do not touch the T&P valve.
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Jun 4, 2023 22:17
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Yessir tanked, 40g natural gas with power vent. A hose cap is a good insurance plan, I'll grab one before I give it a go. And something to snake the drain. Our water is soft enough that I don't know much about hard/soft water, hasn't been a concern. Looking it up and we have water in the 90-110mg/L, which seems softer if not soft. So fingers crossed! It's hot enough here that it's a relatively good time to break a water heater, if I have to.
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Jun 4, 2023 22:42
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Motronic posted:Then you probably shouldn't give advice about water heaters. As someone who's worked both as a plumber and in plumbing sales, I think it's more likely that European water heaters apparently do not need "flushing."
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Jun 4, 2023 23:47
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PurpleXVI posted:As someone who's worked both as a plumber and in plumbing sales, I think it's more likely that European water heaters apparently do not need "flushing." Sediment doesn't settle and hard water doesn't calcify and precipitate out in water heater tanks in europe? How are they designed to prevent this? I mean, you could stir the bottom of the tank of course but that defeats the simple and brilliant thermodynamic principals that a dual element tanked water heater operates on.
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Jun 4, 2023 23:51
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Motronic posted:Sediment doesn't settle and hard water doesn't calcify and precipitate out in water heater tanks in europe? How are they designed to prevent this? Many European houses have on demand systems.
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Jun 5, 2023 00:19
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sharkytm posted:Many European houses have on demand systems. Is that the same as a tankless heater? Because those need flushing too, but it's different than with a tank.
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Jun 5, 2023 00:23
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Holy poo poo 371 posts in the plumbing thread.  Anyways I have a question - My in-laws have Grohe fixtures in their house. One of the sinks in their kitchen hasn't had a working spray head in years and years. Last night the hose for the spray head snapped off where it joins the rigid pipe with what looks like some kind of press fit thing. Plastic just sheared in half. I seem to recall someone here was (or was married to?) a Grohe dealer? Apparently they're getting the run around on the phone and I would like to find out what the real answer is as they aren't necessarily reliable narrators. They bought it at a legit dealer as part of a massive renovation. According to my mother in law, "It has a lifetime warranty but they don't make it anymore and that means too bad."  
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Jun 5, 2023 00:57
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H110Hawk posted:Holy poo poo 371 posts in the plumbing thread. I don't know about lifetime warranties, but Grohe faucets usually have at least a five-year warranty by default, at least in Europe. And generally they can be relied on to have spare parts available for a decade after something's no longer something they sell(and if they can't solve it with spare parts, they usually ALWAYS find a solution, even if that's an entirely new faucet or at the very least your money back). If the dealer is being troublesome(and some dealers really are shitheads or incompetents when it comes to helping with stuff like this), usually Grohe themselves have a good customer service and sending them a proof of purchase, as well as pictures of the faucet and the damage(so they can see the model and what needs fixing), they'll usually do their damndest to get it sorted out. Even if it's out of warranty they'll usually be good about helping find the proper spare part so you can order it. The only case where I'd expect you're out of luck is if the plastic part has snapped in such a way that you need to go farther up to replace it, if the wrong part is busted you're in the market for a new faucet instead. Motronic posted:Sediment doesn't settle and hard water doesn't calcify and precipitate out in water heater tanks in europe? How are they designed to prevent this? If you've got sediment settling on the bottom of your tank, your water quality is definitely an issue(or at least the amount of minerals in the water. the difference in water treatment and filtering prior to it ending up in your home may make a difference in how it's handled). With regards to limescale, yeah, it's a problem, but the limescale that's a problem is the limescale that settles on the heating element, and that's not going to come off just from "flushing" the tank. You'd need to let the whole thing steep in some sort of acidic solution for a while. Generally here the process is to just swap the entire thing out once it's gotten so bad that it can no longer heat properly. A system "flushing" is generally only if the tank has been poorly sized or otherwise the system's been hosed up so dangerous bacteria have settled in, a well-proportioned system here is built so all the water is swapped out at least once a day, which prevents that sort of issue. Water softening systems are also becoming more common which helps solve the whole limescale issue before it gets anywhere near the water heater. sharkytm posted:Many European houses have on demand systems. At least here in Denmark, water heaters with a tank are still the norm. Purely on-demand heaters are generally only used for places that don't see year-round habitation, like vacation homes and cottages, because they tend to have trouble handling a lot of demand at once, can't always get the water as hot as one with a tank and tend to result in more limescale precipitation ending up in the faucets.
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Jun 5, 2023 13:29
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PurpleXVI posted:With regards to limescale, yeah, it's a problem, but the limescale that's a problem is the limescale that settles on the heating element, and that's not going to come off just from "flushing" the tank. It absolutely comes off heating elements on its own - it breaks off like shell layers as it builds up. That's one of the things you find in the bottom of the tank when you're draining it and they often need agitation to break them up enough to fit through the hose bib drain port. That being said, there's still a layer left on the elements, but they are removable so if you have that big of a problem you pull them and dump them in vinegar before reinstalling. And yes, water softeners solve a lot of this.
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Jun 5, 2023 14:03
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PurpleXVI posted:The only case where I'd expect you're out of luck is if the plastic part has snapped in such a way that you need to go farther up to replace it, if the wrong part is busted you're in the market for a new faucet instead. Thanks this is all what I sort of expected. She says she was on the phone with Grohe themselves. It was a $600 single hole kitchen spray head 18 years ago. Based on what you are saying and the mode of failure I'm assuming it's just new faucet time. That's fine, just wanted to get the whole story. They had come to that conclusion themselves and are both fine with it and can afford it, but if they could save some amount of money on the new fixture itself I wanted to help them out. They're thankfully extremely reasonable pleasant people I enjoy helping out.
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Jun 5, 2023 14:23
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H110Hawk posted:Thanks this is all what I sort of expected. She says she was on the phone with Grohe themselves. It was a $600 single hole kitchen spray head 18 years ago. Based on what you are saying and the mode of failure I'm assuming it's just new faucet time. That's fine, just wanted to get the whole story. They had come to that conclusion themselves and are both fine with it and can afford it, but if they could save some amount of money on the new fixture itself I wanted to help them out. They're thankfully extremely reasonable pleasant people I enjoy helping out. Oh, yeah, at 18 years old it's almost certainly replacement time. Generally for anything over 10 years old in terms of plumbing, I wouldn't bother hunting for spare parts because almost certainly some other part is about to kick the bucket as well and soon you're going to have paid for a new faucet or thermostat mixer or whatever anyway. Plus in many case it's easier to just yank off an old thing and plunk in a new one rather than loving around getting parts apart, especially if little seeps of water have glued everything together with limescale over the years.
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Jun 5, 2023 19:12
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Yup. All tracks. Mostly if I could con grohe into a discount or something on a unit replacement I wasn't going to say "no." they're going to the fixture shop tomorrow to get a replacement. I think with the end peice off the hose will pull clean out which will let them get a good color match. Thankfully our local one is both local and good, they have all the price points and will gladly chat with you about what you want and suggest things at all budgets. If you go below their minimum cut off they refer you to home depot and wish you luck.
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Jun 5, 2023 19:24
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More new-old-house plumbing questions. This is the drainage from the downstairs toilet, photo from the basement. It seems to have a slow, slow leak somewhere on the joint, right around where the arrow is. Is there a way to do a quick fix without completely replacing and re-fitting the pipe? I see a few options online, what's the best fix for a pipe this size?
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Jun 6, 2023 23:26
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It's pvc that isn't pressurized. I'm not good at plumbing but I feel like any solution that isn't replacing it is going to take the same amount of time. You might try just popping it off and refitting it, cleaning out whatever is stuck there in the mean time.
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Jun 7, 2023 00:01
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road potato posted:More new-old-house plumbing questions. This is the drainage from the downstairs toilet, photo from the basement. It seems to have a slow, slow leak somewhere on the joint, right around where the arrow is. Welcome Fernco's into your life https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fernco-...gRoCBGwQAvD_BwE Check to make sure you get the right size, I'm assuming it's 3" or 4".
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Jun 7, 2023 00:02
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Judging by having a female connector at both ends, I'd assume it's something that was originally glued together and which is now no longer glued together, so I wouldn't expect it to be properly sealed just from popping it off and popping it on again. Though if something is leaking out of the "top" end, it might also be a hint that something farther down is clogged up so the water is getting pushed "backwards." Dealing with whatever the stoppage or near-stoppage is might be enough to solve the problem.
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Jun 7, 2023 00:12
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road potato posted:More new-old-house plumbing questions. This is the drainage from the downstairs toilet, photo from the basement. It seems to have a slow, slow leak somewhere on the joint, right around where the arrow is. Do you have a better lit picture? I don't see any PVC primer. Was this joint even glued?
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Jun 7, 2023 00:43
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SpartanIvy posted:Welcome Fernco's into your life PurpleXVI posted:Judging by having a female connector at both ends, I'd assume it's something that was originally glued together and which is now no longer glued together, so I wouldn't expect it to be properly sealed just from popping it off and popping it on again. Noted on both of those. Are there extra safety precautions/plans I should take with the fact that this is the toilet/sewage output, not just normal water? I'm concerned about opening up the backed-up poop pipe into the basement.
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Jun 7, 2023 02:26
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road potato posted:Noted on both of those. Are there extra safety precautions/plans I should take with the fact that this is the toilet/sewage output, not just normal water? I'm concerned about opening up the backed-up poop pipe into the basement. Flush the toilet a few times before you start to clear stuff out and make sure no one flushes it while you're working. I recommend a face mask and gloves too but there really shouldn't be too much in there assuming your plumbing is otherwise working correctly. Order of operations with the Fernco would be thus: 1. Hold the Fernco up to the existing pipes and mark on them with sharpie where you need to cut. Remember to leave enough pipe to go INTO the Fernco all the way. So don't mark the top of the Fernco, mark at the bottom of the bell of the Fernco. 2. Use a reciprocating saw with a PVC blade. I really recommend a PVC blade even though you could probably get away with a metal blade. Older PVC has a tendency to shatter and the PVC specific blades seem to do the best job in my experience. 3. It's difficult to cut large PVC pipe straight with a reciprocating saw so here's a tip that helped me out a lot: Use metal hose clamps above and below the line on the pipe that you need to cut. The hose clamps when tightened will be level across the pipe, and since they're metal, the recip blade will be guided to stay between them, ensuring your cut is perpendicular across the pipe. Ferncos are pretty forgiving but it's nice to do a good job anyway. 4. After you're done with the cuts and hose clamps have been removed, take a metal file and take the edge off the inside and outside edges of the PVC pipes. You want remove burrs from the pipe so that there's no jagged parts for toilet paper or other stuff to catch on. Deburring the outer edge makes installing the Fernco much easier as well. 5. Then work the Fernco onto your pipes, and then tighten down the hose clamps on each bell firmly. Make sure the PVC pipes are fully seated in the Fernco and absolutely that the hose clamps are clamping onto the PVC pipe, since that's what makes the seal. With that you're done. Make sure you have plenty of time to do this project so you're not rushed in case things don't go according to plan, because they never do. I'd recommend having an appropriately sized Fernco pipe cap on hand as well, in case poo poo somehow really hits the fan (hopefully figuratively) so you can cap the sewer pipe and come back to it with a solution later. If you don't think you're up to doing the steps above, or if this is your only toilet in the house and you're afraid of being without a toilet for a while, I'd recommend calling a plumber. A plumber would probably replace the fitting with a glued PVC fitting as well, instead of a Fernco. e: forgot the deburring step, which is important! SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 02:59
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See all that crud in the seam joint? It ain't glued. They doped it & *got distracted*  and then assembled it.Flush 1,000 times yank it apart clean it with solvent, re-dope it, then glue it. I've had 2-claims in the past three weeks with CPVC (hot & cold on a shower on one loss; hot supply line above a basement ceiling that I'm seeing tomorrow). Pressure lines that held on for years. Dope can do a real yeoman job of imitating glue. Until it doesn't.
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Jun 7, 2023 03:28
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Sometimes I think we should go back to threaded pipe. You can't fake a threaded connection.
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Jun 7, 2023 03:37
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SpartanIvy posted:Sometimes I think we should go back to threaded pipe. You can't fake a threaded connection. I am never cutting and threading galvanized pipe again, all that loving lubricant everywhere, and the sharp metal shrapnel... you can have my PEX piping when you pry it away from my cold, dead hands. Also waste water piping is only very rarely a threaded connection. Either it's rubber gaskets pushed together(the most common here), glued together(apparently most common in the US) or "welded" together(common in industrial/commercial settings. Heavy-duty pipes pushed together, then a special clamp is put around the connection, electricity is applied and it "melts" the pipes together permanently).
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Jun 7, 2023 10:05
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Any suggestions on how to easiest clean out and caulk the edge of an undermount sink? I noticed there was a bit of gunk under the edge at one spot, gave it a small scrape followed by a hard spray, and heard the lovely sound of water hitting the floor of the cabinet. Looks like the installers didn't bother running the silicone sealant all the way around when they put it in and there's a 3-4" section at the very front of the sink that allows water through.  I was thinking about just cleaning it up the joint between the sink and countertop as best I can with a scraper and rubbing alcohol then running a small bead of silicone around the inner edge to hold out water until I can get the time to drop the sink and redo the entire silicone seal (probably in combination with installing a disposal). Would that be an acceptable temporary patch?
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Jun 7, 2023 11:19
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Shifty Pony posted:I was thinking about just cleaning it up the joint between the sink and countertop as best I can with a scraper and rubbing alcohol then running a small bead of silicone around the inner edge to hold out water until I can get the time to drop the sink and redo the entire silicone seal (probably in combination with installing a disposal). Would that be an acceptable temporary patch? It sounds pretty reasonable, though if you're planning on the seal being there for a while rather than being a very short-term solution, make sure to use a sanitary silicone. They're usually specially made so black mold can't settle into them despite their constantly being exposed to moisture. If the sink is held up by brackets and the silicone is just for sealing, it's also possible that the installers used a non-binding substance similar to water-repellent modelling clay. I know that's the usual thing to use here to close the gap between sinks and countertops, for the reason that since it doesn't bind, if you need to replace the sink one day, you run much less of a risk of completely loving up the countertop in the removal, so your scraping might've displaced part of that(if you went into the gap itself). It'd also be ideal for re-closing the gap with in that case, but it's somewhat more difficult to push into the gap without dismounting the entire sink.
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Jun 7, 2023 15:39
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Typically, you’d mold a ring of plumber’s putty around the perimeter of the sink opening of the countertop, install the sink, then run a very tight bead of silicone around the perimeter. I used it also where the backsplash meets the countertop. Mine’s coming loose after nine years; time to re-lay it. For your situation, you have a good plan.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:35
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PainterofCrap posted:plumber’s putty I'm not sure why the word putty briefly escaped from my vocabulary, but there you go.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:41
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I had a plumber install a sump pump, but they didn't install battery backup. Any recommendation for a battery backup for a sump pump? They installed an outlet and the sump pump has a normal plug.
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Jun 9, 2023 21:09
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PurpleXVI posted:It sounds pretty reasonable, though if you're planning on the seal being there for a while rather than being a very short-term solution, make sure to use a sanitary silicone. They're usually specially made so black mold can't settle into them despite their constantly being exposed to moisture. It is held up by brackets, but I can see the old silicone around the edge under the counter. Actually if I leaned over and look with a flashlight I could see the uncompressed too-small bead of silicone in the section that was leaking. I used this GE kitchen and bath silicone. It seems to have done the trick and I hope it holds decently well.
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Jun 9, 2023 23:01
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The Slack Lagoon posted:I had a plumber install a sump pump, but they didn't install battery backup. Any recommendation for a battery backup for a sump pump? They installed an outlet and the sump pump has a normal plug. How much run time do you need and are you on public water?
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Jun 10, 2023 15:16
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If on municipal water, I continue to flog the water-powered backup pump
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Jun 11, 2023 01:26
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Motronic posted:How much run time do you need and are you on public water? We don't lose power often and I think the longest we've lost power is an hour or two in the last 3 years. Municipal water.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:38
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The Slack Lagoon posted:We don't lose power often and I think the longest we've lost power is an hour or two in the last 3 years. An hour or two of battery backup would be many thousands of dollars and need to be replaced every few years. Municipal water will be fine for that amount of time. Get a water driven backup pump.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:45
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Finally got around to redoing the hot water side of my plumbing to eliminate the old copper, so now it's all PEX A except for a couple small pieces of galvanized steel that still appears to be very strong and will hopefully last at least a few more years until I'm ready to cut open that wall. Had a bit of a panic yesterday when I was torching an old galvanized elbow to tie into it, and the other side of the joint came undone instead of the one I wanted, so I had to get that elbow off, redope it, and put a new elbow on. Unfortunately there wasn't enough clearance between the pipe and the band joist to spin the old one off (or a new one on) so I had to sawzall it off. I ended up using a forstner bit to drill out about 1/4" of the band joist which gave me enough room to spin on a new brass elbow. Then I was able to install the PEX A adapter and tie it in to my new PEX run. Tightening a pipe while laying on your back/side/stomach in a crawl space and your arms fully extended up is loving tough as hell, but I managed to get it all tightened up properly on the first try, somehow. I'm going to crawl back down tomorrow just to make sure it's still not leaking and to clean up a bit, but I'm pretty confident that it's good. I also needed to tie in the old washing machine outlet, and that was copper pipe. I tried sweating on a PEX fitting to the copper, but the beach-like conditions of my crawl space meant there was too much sand and dust everywhere and I couldn't get clean flux on the pipe, so I instead ripped out all the copper and just shoved a new piece of PEX down through the hole and tied it in. I have some 1" thick insulation around it that's giving it a little rigidity behind the washing machine and it's good enough. It's only going to be around for a few more months, tops, while I finish the new laundry closet, so I'm not too worried about the longevity of that setup. loving hell though. 9 hours of crawlspace work total and my loving knees and elbows are rubbed raw from the sand. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 23:29
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Update: It did have a small leak, so I disassembled it. Doped/Taped/Doped the old pipe and doped the inside of the new fitting. Assembly was a scene that would make even a hardcore bukkake fetishist blush. If it still leaks, I'm going to have to replace the entire run up the wall which is going to be a nightmare, so pray for my plumbing goons. old pipe:  leaking new connection  Hopefully not leaking new new connection 
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Jun 15, 2023 19:54
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That's a lot of dope, does US pipe assembly just use dope by itself or is there also flax in there?
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Jun 15, 2023 20:17
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PurpleXVI posted:That's a lot of dope, does US pipe assembly just use dope by itself or is there also flax in there? As far as I am aware, US pipe assembly is usually PTFE tape, dope, or a combination of both. I have not heard of flax/hemp/oakum being used outside of very old cast iron assemblies with poured lead. And short of some very old-school plumbers, nobody even assembles new cast iron that way. From what I can tell, the preferred method is to use a fuckton of Fernco's instead. e: My house is from 1950 and while the original cast iron drain lines did have lead and oakum seals, the the original galvanized steel plumbing was just doped, as is the original black iron gas pipe. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 20:38
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It must really suck pumping away between a couple 2x10s in a crawlspace.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:34
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