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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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Frosted Flake posted:I burst out laughing at this one. Big 1942 energy. IIRC most armor losses in WW2 were from AT guns and stuff like bazookas/panzerfaust/AT rifles, correct? I can't remember if I read that in the already mentioned awesome book When Titans Clashed. Edit: Jel Shaker posted:hang on is ukraine supposed to be buying this stuff? thought it was all donated Remember when Poland and some other Baltic state "donated" equipment then tried to get the EU to pay them for it lol.
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Jun 10, 2023 14:58
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Jel Shaker posted:hang on is ukraine supposed to be buying this stuff? thought it was all donated USAI is contracted out, but on a long lead timeline, and it is paid for by the US. PDAs are donated out of US stocks. Some other nations have just straight donated items to Ukraine. There is also the European Peace Fund (yes i know), by which European countries have pooled a few billion dollars to pay others for donating equipment to Ukraine. Some of the EPF funds are pretty directly used for Ukraine, others are for things like funding getting munitions plants up and running or expanded, then some portion of this new industrial base is used for donating munitions to Ukraine, with the goal to retain the industrial base afterward. In other cases a country offers to donate things and asks for an EPF reimbursement, which might be denied, approved at a cut rate (like paying 50% value on donations or something), or be approved at full rate. I bet Ukraine is buying some stuff, but also their own funding stream is very busy with things like simply paying wages, maintaining basic infrastructure, food, etc.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:09
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The337th posted:well, if they weren't defeated mano a mano by another tank, it doesn't even count I don't understand how that is supposed to make things better. https://twitter.com/PigLazer/status/1667481221281075200?s=20 Losing your tanks before they even see the enemy or leave their own lines, if anything, means you lost them without achieving anything. However, it seems to be a bit of a fixation in his replies, so I'm turning to the normies ITT to explain this one to me. "Great if true, are you sure it was within Ukrainian lines? Because if true this is important info to stop panic spreading among Ukraine supporters!" "It wasn't in UA lines? Between this and the second push we have photos of Russian troops getting within 10m for selfies." "That’s the concerning part. If the UA can’t get men and mech to the front unscathed, they’re going to be in trouble." "It wasn't within Ukrainian lines, this happened in a greyzone, we have footage of the Bradley's engaging targets and Russian soldiers about 300 feet away recording the abandoned vehicles" I feel like I'm missing part of the NAFO analysis, because I tried to run this through some of those OA models, and an AFV that engages 0 enemy and advances 0 km has an effectiveness of 0. This obviously complicates the math. In the process I found models for procuring new AFVs and ... lol    BadOptics posted:IIRC most armor losses in WW2 were from AT guns and stuff like bazookas/panzerfaust/AT rifles, correct? I can't remember if I read that in the already mentioned awesome book When Titans Clashed. I have a book somewhere around here, but by a huge margin. Allied losses to AT guns decreased from late 1944, but only because the Germans were running out of them, and so you see an increase in losses to Panzerfaust. Surface level analysis of the raw numbers led to some panic about infantry AT weapons in the early Cold War because people saw them and said "My God! We lost 75% (or whatever) of our tanks to shoulder fired HEAT warheads! The age of the tank is over! Any infantryman can stop an armoured attack cold.", not realizing that those were the result of the Germans increasingly tasking teens on bicycles to stop armoured divisions, and that the Germans certainly wished they had more AT guns to go around. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 15:22 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2023 15:15
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Frosted Flake posted:I don't understand how that is supposed to make things better. I love the assumption as well that all the crews made it back safe across an open, mined field with artillery probably inbound. Pure propaganda from an account that styles itself as authoritative and clear-eyed.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:20
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Meow Tse-tung posted:we were fully prepared to witness our favorite tanks burning in a field, such is war some of our faves may be implicated (by artillery fire)
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Jun 10, 2023 15:22
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we were fully prepared to witness our favorite narratives burning in a field, such is war
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Jun 10, 2023 15:23
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Dixon Chisholm posted:elan kursk
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Jun 10, 2023 15:23
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Oryx rules baby a tank with no crew in it is a 'loss'. End of. And if you want to you can take some pictures from different angles and claim these are different tanks. Make no mistake, Ukraine lost 3000 Leopard 2s in that human tank wave attack. Also they were all destroyed by T-62's.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:24
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Actually you still see war games, I'm thinking of Flames of War, severely overrate the panzerfaust because of the amount of Allied tanks lost to it in 1945, not considering that it's because losses to everything else (dive bombers, tanks, tank destroyers, AT guns, etc. etc.) plummeted.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:24
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Zelenskyy says counteroffensive is officially underway. What happened to  ?
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Jun 10, 2023 15:24
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Regarde Aduck posted:Oryx rules baby Even if everyone still made it out it's still a loss because you don't move your trained tank crew to doing grunt infantry work, they're likely just hanging around waiting for a new tank (that you don't have) so they're effectively out of the combat. And if they do put them on grunt infantry work it makes it significantly easier to drain skilled soldiers (by shooting them)
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Jun 10, 2023 15:27
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There is also a bit of make believe going on that the situation with the Bradleys and that Leopard was the only damage the AFU is taking when, if you want to get in it there are multiple waves of videos/images across the line. It is perhaps the only most dramatic one. It does also get into some silly territory where the no-man's land is being "taken," and it really doesn't seem the Ukrainians have made serious progress. I mean, it all makes sense, Bakhmut has been forgotten about, and so will this. The emphasis will be on the winter/spring 2024 campaign when the Ukrainians will have the airpower they need to make a difference etc etc. Reality is dead, we only now live in what is created for us. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:30 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2023 15:27
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Frosted Flake posted:Actually you still see war games, I'm thinking of Flames of War, severely overrate the panzerfaust because of the amount of Allied tanks lost to it in 1945, not considering that it's because losses to everything else (dive bombers, tanks, tank destroyers, AT guns, etc. etc.) plummeted. Well...you also had like 1 Panther get knocked out and then 3 different Typhoon/Jug pilots go back to report they killed 10 tanks each. I will need to dig it up, but a US Army AAR from a battle late war discovered the #'s claimed by the USAAF were over inflated to what was actually happened on the ground.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:29
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BadOptics posted:Well...you also had like 1 Panther get knocked out and then 3 different Typhoon/Jug pilots go back to report they killed 10 tanks each. I will need to dig it up, but a US Army AAR from a battle late war discovered the #'s claimed by the USAAF were over inflated to what was actually happened on the ground. There's a book about that, Allied Strafing in World War II: A Cockpit View of Air to Ground Battle, that gets into the creative accounting.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:34
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https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1667519020965273601?s=20 it still makes me lol that the ukrainian dude politicians still dont wear suits. like, who came up with this? cuz the ladies still wear business clothes.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:39
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fits my needs posted:https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1667519020965273601?s=20 What's the "UA30" (?) in ye olde German font mean on the one guy's Tacticool shirt?
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Jun 10, 2023 15:43
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fits my needs posted:https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1667519020965273601?s=20 I am pretty sure all of these guys just came out of the trenches about 10 minutes before this meeting started in Ottawa, have some respect.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:44
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fits my needs posted:it still makes me lol that the ukrainian dude politicians still dont wear suits. like, who came up with this? cuz the ladies still wear business clothes. It's because the dudes will go direct back to the siege of Popov Castle in Vasylivka after the meeting.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:48
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normalise being a dumpy 40 something in jogging pants
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Jun 10, 2023 15:51
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It cracks me up that the person running Canadian foreign policy is basically Sam Bee, but worse.   I stan a Political kween. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 15:53 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2023 15:51
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SplitSoul posted:Poland did Nordstream. Poland + the US was my initial theory, but I'm on team Norway + the US now.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:57
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BadOptics posted:Well...you also had like 1 Panther get knocked out and then 3 different Typhoon/Jug pilots go back to report they killed 10 tanks each. I will need to dig it up, but a US Army AAR from a battle late war discovered the #'s claimed by the USAAF were over inflated to what was actually happened on the ground. There were instances in the Normandy breakout where there were more kills claimed than AFVs the Germans had in the field.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:05
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If you shoot a bunch of unguided rockets and dirt and smoke kicks up, that’s at least two confirmed tank kills.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:06
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BadOptics posted:What's the "UA30" (?) in ye olde German font mean on the one guy's Tacticool shirt? probably commemorating the 30 year anniversary of ukranian independence
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Jun 10, 2023 16:10
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applying my rule of media analysis that I’ve used this war: you have to interpret what is happening by what is not being said . no on is saying Ukraine is having a successful counter attack so that’s probably what is happening
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Jun 10, 2023 16:12
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euphronius posted:applying my rule of media analysis that I’ve used this war: you have to interpret what is happening by what is not being said . no on is saying Ukraine is having a successful counter attack so that’s probably what is happening idk i am pretty sure if you stare at reddit, twitter and telegram enough you can unlock the truth. the chosen one is out there, the real fact knower
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Jun 10, 2023 16:14
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Orange Devil posted:Poland + the US was my initial theory, but I'm on team Norway + the US now. The Norwegian military can't do things, so no
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Jun 10, 2023 16:29
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I guess the problem is that the overall strategic situation hasn't changed, and between the overall direction of the war, continued Russian strategic strikes, firepower imbalance at all levels, and dependance on western support, this really needs to be a death ride, one last throw of the dice to get some sort of favourable outcome. I suppose what I'm wondering is, if they're going to bounce from falling into this exact kind of ideological trap in I mean, this is overlooking that they should terminate the combat (and, indeed the war), but as discussed that's not possible for them.  Of course the political considerations might take this into account too. If this is as good a chance as the Ukrainian army will have, breaking off the combat creates the possibility of a Dolchstoßlegende, where final victory was in reach if only XYZ... Notably, this has persisted with Kursk. If only the Germans had kept driving panzer divisions through minefields for another week, somehow they would end up in Moscow. Zelensky is already vulnerable to this sort of thing, it's more or less what the Veterans Movement was. Not denying the army their chance, even if it's really no chance at all, might be a prudent move. So, I would imagine that combat is broken off when units are too depleted to move forward, or when Kiev says so. The other possibility is that enough negative attention is drawn to this in the West that they direct Kiev to break things off. This still satisfies Ukraine's overall goal of keeping the west happy, and I imagine will keep their financial lifelines open. Are these about the contours of it?
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Jun 10, 2023 16:35
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BadOptics posted:we were fully prepared to witness our favorite narratives burning in a field, such is war Pure copium from the pro-RuZZian side.... the way they fixate on destroyed vehicles you'd think the counteroffensive was a failure or something....
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Jun 10, 2023 16:47
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Well it doesn't matter because victory itself isn't that important, it is the perception of victory, and even that can always be changed at will. You can have a pile of Bradleys and it doesn't matter because, admitting reality is admitting defeat, so just don't do it, ever again. Embrace the dreamscape, endless deathrides, who cares, just keep on doing it. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:54 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2023 16:50
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Russia is in full retreat!
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Jun 10, 2023 16:54
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Megamissen posted:probably commemorating the 30 year anniversary of ukranian independence Weird then to wear a shirt that's almost 2 years old (Ukrainian independence happened in Aug of '91).
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Jun 10, 2023 16:54
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Ardennes posted:Well it doesn't matter because victory itself isn't that important, it is the perception of victory, and even that can always be changed at will. Basically the phase Russia and Ukraine have both been in for a long time. Russia announcing it already owns a bunch of territory it can't reasonably take and failing at regime change, Ukraine saying they will liberate everything, sometimes even including Crimea in that claim. But at some point the two will likely have to settle for peace/truce/cease-fire on terms that are short of both their goals.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:U/R War: Some of our faves may be incinerated
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Jun 10, 2023 16:58
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never fall in love with a tank
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Jun 10, 2023 17:00
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Ardennes posted:Well it doesn't matter because victory itself isn't that important, it is the perception of victory, and even that can always be changed at will. You can have a pile of Bradleys and it doesn't matter because, admitting reality is admitting defeat, so just don't do it, ever again. I think cutting, or threatening to cut, the Crimea land bridge was and is a read deal strategic objective that could be achieved by military means, but you're right, it's easy enough to retreat back into the zone of vibes and relying on western aid.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:01
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speng31b posted:never fall in love with a tank tank will break your heart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1SIQsB1ABc
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Jun 10, 2023 17:02
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Ardennes posted:Well it doesn't matter because victory itself isn't that important, it is the perception of victory, and even that can always be changed at will. You can have a pile of Bradleys and it doesn't matter because, admitting reality is admitting defeat, so just don't do it, ever again.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:02
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Frosted Flake posted:I mean, this is overlooking that they should terminate the combat (and, indeed the war), but as discussed that's not possible for them. *doing a bunch of complicated maths, staring really intently, frowning deeply, tongue tucked between lips* *looks up at burned out tank and ifv husks, fields strewn with bodies* "Guys I did the maths and it looks like we're losing! Guys... guys?" In other news Scholz is saying he's going to call Putin to tell him to withdraw all his forces out of all of Ukraine including Crimea and that there is "no room to negotiate". Such good friends.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:18
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| # ? May 24, 2024 13:54 |
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Frosted Flake posted:I think cutting, or threatening to cut, the Crimea land bridge was and is a read deal strategic objective that could be achieved by military means, but you're right, it's easy enough to retreat back into the zone of vibes and relying on western aid. I don't think seriously cutting it was on the table once the Russian mobilized, and then you had a relative paucity of aid as well as Bakhmut after that. To threaten it, they would have worked through multiple lines of fortification and then would need a 3 to 1 if not a 4 to 1 advantage. The numbers weren't there in terms of men or equipment. But they can always proclaim victory and get more aid, and just assume the Russians will never do anything in return.
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Jun 10, 2023 17:24
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