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Johnny Postnemonic posted:I preordered the disc and baby, im getting a poster, character art cards, items and everythibg on disc no day 1 patch gently caress maybe I should get physical but also I bet it means I can't play the game when it comes out
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Jun 11, 2023 12:27
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stev posted:How is Shopto with day one delivery these days? They're a tenner cheaper than Amazon but last time I used them it took a few days after launch to show up. usually pretty good, used to get yakuza games a few days early if bh were in the way, otherwise its usually a day early, very rare to get it on the day and only ever got 2 games late from them but that was in first lockdown. They got me totk a day earlier. Its actually 8 quid cheaper at hit/base.co.uk but you dont get anything with them and cant pay straight away when you got the cash (or use other payment methods) main reason i use shopto. They dont list it on the site for some reason, they sent me this email showing what im getting: 
Johnny Postnemonic fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 12:34
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I will not equip any pre-order bonus items...! That's cheating!!
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Jun 11, 2023 12:37
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JBP posted:gently caress maybe I should get physical but also I bet it means I can't play the game when it comes out What lol of course you can, you even play it the day before if you got a good postal service. Unless you meant midnight, but i bet theres places doing midnight launches
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Jun 11, 2023 12:53
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stev posted:How is Shopto with day one delivery these days? They're a tenner cheaper than Amazon but last time I used them it took a few days after launch to show up. My only issue with them is they never post stuff so I get it two days early anymore. Oh I guess they lost my copy of GoW2 but I'll happily blame DPD for that.
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Jun 11, 2023 13:26
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Wheres the freakin demo
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Jun 11, 2023 13:39
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Right behind you.
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Jun 11, 2023 13:45
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https://twitter.com/ff16_jp/status/1667834061451059201?s=46 Character trailer for Hugo. Love how masculine his theme sounds.
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Jun 11, 2023 13:58
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fridge corn posted:Wheres the freakin demo There's only one and they gave it to me.
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Jun 11, 2023 15:30
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Mom says it's my turn with the FFXVI demo.
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Jun 11, 2023 15:44
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The FF16 demo is available now with the purchase of PlayStation Magazine and comes on this months demo disc.
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Jun 11, 2023 15:57
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The demo will appear in your download queue if you close your eyes and wish really hard
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Jun 11, 2023 16:00
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roomtone posted:i haven't really been taken in by the combat/monster lore heavy advertising for this, and the lack of a proper party, but it occurred to me that really there hasn't been a 'proper' final fantasy at this point since 10, maybe 12 counts (i like it), but man it's been a long time. over 20 years. you'd think at some point they'd realise they'd strayed too far and make one which gets back to the core of the experience people loved, like what capcom did when they started their recent remakes and back to basics before building up again, but square just doesn't really work like that. they're always experimenting in different directions, there's no real core identity or feel to final fantasy beyond mainstream japanese. final fantasy is about vibes
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Jun 11, 2023 16:23
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roomtone posted:it occurred to me that really there hasn't been a 'proper' final fantasy at this point since 10, maybe 12 counts (i like it), but man it's been a long time. over 20 years. you'd think at some point they'd realise they'd strayed too far and make one which gets back to the core of the experience people loved The only thing I really take issue with here is that you could rephrase this as, it's been over 20 years, you'd think at some point you'd realized that the series hasn't strayed, it's changed.
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Jun 11, 2023 16:43
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roomtone posted:i haven't really been taken in by the combat/monster lore heavy advertising for this, and the lack of a proper party, but it occurred to me that really there hasn't been a 'proper' final fantasy at this point since 10, maybe 12 counts (i like it), but man it's been a long time. over 20 years. you'd think at some point they'd realise they'd strayed too far and make one which gets back to the core of the experience people loved, like what capcom did when they started their recent remakes and back to basics before building up again, but square just doesn't really work like that. they're always experimenting in different directions, there's no real core identity or feel to final fantasy beyond mainstream japanese. you, uh, you sure about that
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Jun 11, 2023 16:45
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I forgot that since this is releasing based on US Eastern time in America, I’ll be able to play at 9pm on the 21st. gently caress playing a demo. 10 days remain.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:10
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So, genuinely: When people say "get back to the core experience people love" I don't think they actually know what they are asking for. Are you asking for a party-based RPG? In that case FFVIIR and FFXV(post patches) both count. You have a full party of characters who you directly control even if you're only controlling one at a time. (Which would also apply to FF12.) Are you looking for a turn-based RPG? Outside of FFX FF hasn't been one since the NES. They've constantly experimented with methods of making the games more action based. From ATB to timed hits to the various minigames for limit breaks to needing to time Squall's attack for the extra damage, it's always been something they experimented with and continue to experiment with to this day but at the end of the day they've constantly tried to mix 'real time' gameplay with menu-driven gameplay. When people say FF is about the 'vibes' they're not kidding. FF has never kept to the same thing from game to game. That's one of the defining features of the franchise. FF1 was the original, you had no pre-defined characters and set static jobs FF2 instead had pre-defined characters with a greater emphasis on plot and basically nothing resembling jobs at all FF3 went back to the FF1 mold but then added the job system which defined the game. FF4 went the opposite direction and went back into a more character-heavy plot-driven storyline and swapped the gameplay from turn-based to the psuedo-action ATB system. FF5 tried to mix FF3 and FF4, with pre-defined characters and a Job system but ended up focusing on mechanics and being relatively plot light, and the job system itself went from straight upgrades to different abilities entirely. FF6 *again* swapped it back around and dropping the job system entirely, instead once again focusing mostly on characters and making each character super distinct (and usually tied to a job that existed.) This also started the franchise's trend of making summons into a source of power and a central focus instead of just a big attack. FF7 is where they stopped swapping back and forth between plot and characters but dropped the job system in favor of a fully customizable materia system and made limit breaks a central part of the game (rather than the easter egg they were in FF6.) FF8 dropped Materia in favor of GFs which basically its entirely own thing but it also began to ratchet up the action elements with timing-based attacks. FF9 'went back' to the SNES days and was more of a mix of FF4 and 6 but also introduced an entirely equipment-based character customization system. It was however an intentional 'throwback' to the older days. FFX went "You know, gently caress all that" and completely changed the battle system (becoming truly turn-based for the first time since the NES days), got rid of world maps, introduced voice acting, and basically redefined the franchise. FFXI was a drat MMO. FFXII once again revamped everything, changing to a psuedo-MMO real-time combat system and once again removed jobs in favor of an entirely new fully-customizable leveling system. (And then in re-releases went back on that and reintroduced jobs!) FFXIII went back to the FFX style but shifted the turn based combat back to something more like ATB with more timing elements involved. FFXIV was a completely different kind of MMO. FFXV was a full-on action game with a single controllable character (until patches/DLC) and an open world Which of these is the 'core experience' that FF was known for?
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Jun 11, 2023 17:13
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The core experience is being introduced to a new mainline protagonist which hasn't happened since 2006 
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Jun 11, 2023 17:20
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Mordiceius posted:I forgot that since this is releasing based on US Eastern time in America, I’ll be able to play at 9pm on the 21st. The demo will be the intro to the game, and you carry over that progress to the full game. This is perfect in my opinion. I don't think I would really be that excited for the demo if it was just a small slice somewhere later in the game.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:21
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The core experience is whatever FFs they played closest to ages 12-16 and thus deemed “real” FF.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:22
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roomtone posted:i haven't really been taken in by the combat/monster lore heavy advertising for this, and the lack of a proper party, but it occurred to me that really there hasn't been a 'proper' final fantasy at this point since 10, maybe 12 counts (i like it), but man it's been a long time. over 20 years. you'd think at some point they'd realise they'd strayed too far and make one which gets back to the core of the experience people loved, like what capcom did when they started their recent remakes and back to basics before building up again, but square just doesn't really work like that. they're always experimenting in different directions, there's no real core identity or feel to final fantasy beyond mainstream japanese. Based on what FF14 is like, and how Yoshida said the story is the thing he hopes makes the biggest impression on players, I think your worries are mostly based on the marketing. FF14, especially Shadowbringers and Endwalker, are true returns to the roots of Final Fantasy. I think they might be focusing on the combat and grimdark setting in their marketing because they don't want to reveal too much about the storyline (and also because they possibly think showing off the AAA combat will lure in people who weren't already hooked by the words "Final Fantasy"). It's hard to explain how much the recent FF14 expansions get what makes Final Fantasy lovely, except to say that they are very heartfelt games about how compassion and friendship and adventure can make the world better even when it's teetering over the abyss. FF16's writer worked on FFT and FF12, as well as the earlier FF14 storylines. So it won't have the same sentimental tone that Shadowbringers and Endwalker have. But I think the duo of Yoshida and Soken really worked out how to tell emotional stories through video games over the course of FF14's development. My impression of FF16 is that it's a chance for Maehiro to tell the story he wanted to tell in A Realm Reborn, without being shackled by having to reinvent a dying MMO on a hell crunch. I think FF16 is going to very much pick up the torch of Final Fantasy Tactics and tell a somber political fantasy story, which I'm really into.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:30
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ImpAtom posted:Which of these is the 'core experience' that FF was known for? The one I like the most and if you don't like it too then you're wrong 
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Jun 11, 2023 17:33
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To be honest I think "grimdark" doesn't really apply to FFXVI's setting any more than it does many others. FF6 is set in a world ravaged by war where your first protagonist is a literal enslaved child soldier who breaks free and gets embroiled in war until the main villain literally destroys the world half way through the game. FF7 is set in a cyberpunk dystopia where an evil corporation is draining life from the world and even once you escape that it's still pretty depressing FFX is set in a hellworld where joy and progress are halted by the physical manifestation of religious guilt and people need to kill themselves to eek out even a year's peace. FFXIII's world is just hellish and the protagonists are given a time limit to murder everyone they know or die. FFXV's world is a decaying mess where horrible monsters appear outside any time it gets dark and the protagonist basically is on a game-long quest to kill himself while everyone around him suffers and dies. Edit: And FFXIV's world has gotten better but holy poo poo at the opening was it dark to the point where fighting summons was a terrifying suicide mission where a significant portion of the people sent to quell the attack would get mind controlled and had to be mercy killed. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 17:37
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ImpAtom posted:Which of these is the 'core experience' that FF was known for? it's pretty obviously ATB given that most games use it in one form or another, and people would probably also accept an FFX-style turn based system since it's functionally very similar.
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Jun 11, 2023 17:55
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cock hero flux posted:it's pretty obviously ATB given that most games use it in one form or another, and people would probably also accept an FFX-style turn based system since it's functionally very similar. 6 out of 16 is 'most'? Also FFX's system is literally entirely different. It is turn-based and is built around you having the ability to manipulate the turn order. It's closer to Grandia than ATB. Edit: To be clear "ATB" comes in two forms. "ATB" as in the battle system was introduced in FFIV and used until FF9. Modified versions of it were used in various spinoffs but since this discussion is about how S-E has 'forgotten' what people like, I'm assuming those don't count and we're just discussing mainline. Several games use the term "ATB" to represent a meter filling over time mechanic but it isn't the ATB combat system. Parasite Eve, FFXIII and FFVIIR all use ATB this way for example but I somehow doubt FFVIIR 'counts' despite that. It's just reusing the term, but FFXIII for example uses the Command Synergy System and is pretty different from standard ATB. (You can take action before bars are full, you can instantly refill with timed swaps, actions take up chunks of your bar instead of it just representing an action, etc.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 18:06
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I said come in! posted:The demo will be the intro to the game, and you carry over that progress to the full game. This is perfect in my opinion. I don't think I would really be that excited for the demo if it was just a small slice somewhere later in the game. I just don't want to have to wait to play more. I want to sit down and play without limit. I get why people are excited for the demo and go hog wild. Personally, I want to play a few hours and then have to wait another 10 days to play more.
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Jun 11, 2023 18:29
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ImpAtom posted:Which of these is the 'core experience' that FF was known for? I think there's a pretty clear demarcation between 1-10 + 13, which are turn based-ish party based RPGs, and the rest, which aren't. 1-10 is a 15 year stretch and 11-16 is a 20 year stretch so it's not like that's some recent pivot, but there's some pretty clear "okay how do we actually make RPG gameplay work with what we want to do narratively?" workshopping going on in 12 and the 13s that ended with a decision of "we need to have more action elements". I don't think it's very realistic to expect Squeenix to go back to parties and turns. Their focus for the series since 6 has been on delivering narrative spectacles that push the current tech boundary. You can like or dislike that, but no one is likely to make a triple-A game that's also an adventuring party RPG with an ATB-style battle system today; it just limits what sort of spectacle your game can deliver a bit too much. A FF16 with mechanics in the style of even 13 would need to be a smaller game, and Squeenix want the mainline FFs to be as big and bombastic as possible. It's not like it's hard to find a recent party-based RPG with turn based-ish battles if you want one: it's just not going to be a maximum budget game with Final Fantasy in the title. Personally, while I do miss the old systems in some ways because I am an old fart, I also enjoyed the MMOs, 12 and even 15 (well, the open world half; the final story stretch not so much). Stuff changes, so it goes.
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Jun 11, 2023 18:38
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If people care so much about turn based games - Dragon Quest is right there. Let FF be weird and do new things all the time.
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Jun 11, 2023 18:43
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ImpAtom posted:6 out of 16 is 'most'? as for 10: it's turn-based, yes, but it is functionally very similar to ATB. Turn-based systems and ATB systems are pretty similar. FFX plays a lot like an ATB system on Wait mode. ATB bars typically fill at different rates depending on stats/status effects/etc. and FFX's variable turn order accomplishes the same thing in a way that is presented differently. While not identical, they're close enough as to not put off people who enjoyed the ATB system. Something like 15, on the other hand, is not. It plays very differently to the point of being essentially a different genre.
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Jun 11, 2023 18:49
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Xerophyte posted:I think there's a pretty clear demarcation between 1-10 + 13, which are turn based-ish party based RPGs, and the rest, which aren't. 1-10 is a 15 year stretch and 11-16 is a 20 year stretch so it's not like that's some recent pivot, but there's some pretty clear "okay how do we actually make RPG gameplay work with what we want to do narratively?" workshopping going on in 12 and the 13s that ended with a decision of "we need to have more action elements". Why does 13 count as party based but not 12? Or 15? Or 7R? cock hero flux posted:yeah, especially given that it was retrofitted into 1, 2 and 3 when they were rereleased. And I'd absolutely say 13 is ATB, given that that's literally what they call it in game(even if it functions a differently than normal). They didn't add ATB to the old games last I checked. Also FFX is not the same. It doesn't play like wait mode at all. Timeline manipulation is a huge part of it. It also isn't, you know, active.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:01
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ImpAtom posted:They didn't add ATB to the old games last I checked. quote:Also FFX is not the same. It doesn't play like wait mode at all. Timeline manipulation is a huge part of it. It also isn't, you know, active.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:15
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There will definitely be more FF games with parties, XVI is the only one that doesn't besides the MMOs (and narratively 14 basically does a lot of the time) and XV and VIIR both show how you can have AAA action FF with a party.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:20
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As does Stranger of Paradise.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:24
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cock hero flux posted:They definitely did to some of the rereleases but I guess they might have gone back to pure turn-based for the more recent ones, I haven't played those. My mistake, if so. Except, again' it doesn't. ATB shows the time to the next turn. Haste/slow/stop can adjust this and Quick can allow multiple actions in a single ut you can't adjust it any further and most enemies resist anything bigger than slow. FFX allows you to manipulate the timescale using various actions. It isn't turn to turn but action to action. Tidus can take five actions in a row. That is in fact why they gave Tidus all those manipulation skills by default. It is central to the combat system in a way it isn't to ATB. The only similarity is that you take actions from a menu in which case you can say Dragon Quest is ATB too.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:25
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ImpAtom posted:Except, again' it doesn't. ATB shows the time to the next turn. Haste/slow/stop can adjust this and Quick can allow multiple actions in a single ut you can't adjust it any further and most enemies resist anything bigger than slow. It is turn to turn, though. It's just that Tidus can be fast enough, and enemies slow enough, that Tidus can take 5 turns before an enemy can take 1. Again, just because FFX gives the player more tools to manipulate turn timing doesn't mean that the underlying system is all that different. ATB bars fill at different speeds. If, say, Cloud's ATB bar were to fill 5 times faster than a Behemoth's, then Cloud would get 5 turns before the Behemoth gets 1. It's the same, it's just that 7 doesn't give the player enough tools for manipulating the ATB bar to get more than like, 2 turns in a row.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:29
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The point of ATB is that enemies can act even if you're not doing anything Kind of like an, active battle in time
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Jun 11, 2023 19:37
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cock hero flux posted:It is turn to turn, though. It's just that Tidus can be fast enough, and enemies slow enough, that Tidus can take 5 turns before an enemy can take 1. Again, just because FFX gives the player more tools to manipulate turn timing doesn't mean that the underlying system is all that different. Again by that logic any game with a turn combat system is ATB because you can extrapolate it enough. Even straight turn-based games still have character action speed based on the individual actions. ATB is a distinct thing. That's the point. Like to point out S-E did this as early as Parasite Eve which used the ATB system despite allowing you to freely move around. Final Fantasy VIIR still has an ATB system. If FFXIII counts because they call it ATB then FFVIIR and PE count too, right?
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Jun 11, 2023 19:37
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Terper posted:The point of ATB is that enemies can act even if you're not doing anything wait mode ImpAtom posted:Again by that logic any game with a turn combat system is ATB because you can extrapolate it enough. Even straight turn-based games still have character action speed based on the individual actions. they CAN be functionally distinct, but FFX is not. Something like FF1, with its original turn system, is distinct since if I remember right that one was just "every PC takes a turn and then every enemy takes a turn", so the turn order isn't variable.
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Jun 11, 2023 19:41
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cock hero flux posted:wait mode Wait Mode does not actually stop enemies from acting except while you have an action menu open. In FFX if you don't touch anything the game doesn't progress. For example in FFIX if you select attack but don't select a target the enemy will continue to act. It's actually very notable in FFIX because enemies will trigger their actions even while you're in a menu if they already were acting before you went in, to the point wait mode in FFIX is almost indistinguishable from Active Mode. (A common complaint about the game.) You are not safe during your turn even in Wait Mode unless you trigger the very specific thing that stops time. It was designed to make it easier to scroll busy menus, not to turn the game turn-based. There's also mechanics like Doom counters for which this is very relevant. Like straight-up this is something people actually complain about. Time does not stop when your turn comes even on Wait Mode. It isn't 'true' turn based, it just slows time while you select an option. You know, like Wait Mode in FFXV or FFVIIR. Like this isn't hyperbole. People actively complain that "Wait Mode" in FF games isn't the same as turn based. Hell one of the options in the Memoria mode for FFIX is *making it actually turn based.* ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 19:51
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ImpAtom posted:6 out of 16 is 'most'? More than all this stuff about turn-based/ATB (since I can at least understand classifying those games as all being fundamentally more "passive RPG-ish" than FF16), the thing that confuses me about those opinions is that FF has never really been known for "having a deep/complex and rewarding battle system"! When people talk about their favorite FF games, they usually aren't commenting on how amazing and stimulating their RPG combat was! When I think back to FF games' role in pop culture (at least at its height), it was always primarily about the characters/art/music. Stuff like people speculating about the plot or cosplaying as the characters. The main key defining factor was always, as others have mentioned, the "vibes" (or, more specifically, the net impact of the art/music/characters/etc). That was the main thing distinguishing it from other JRPGs of the era - it certainly wasn't that FF games had better mechanics! They were instead "the very long RPG with the really distinct art/music."
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Jun 11, 2023 19:54
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