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Assuming “Judge” Cannon gets her metaphorical peepee smacked around like she did last time when the appeals court invalidated basically everything she did with Trump’s last federal rodeo, does this go to the Supreme Court? I mean, I’m not excited for a constitutional crisis, but I feel like I’m beginning to smell one.
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Jun 11, 2023 22:20
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Oracle posted:Why would you need scale on a standard piece of 8.5”x11” paper? Can you reliably tell an 8.8x11 from A4 or legal or a less common size of paper, at a foreshortened angle?
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Jun 11, 2023 22:26
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We’ve seen Trump face consequences when he lost a presidential election to Joe loving Biden of all people. And he reacted to it by throwing a tantrum, denying what happened, inventing his own fantasy to assuage his ego, and finally getting his followers to try bend reality into that fantasy. While I imagine hindsight would get a lot of his fans to think twice before trying anything, there’s likely still enough with a cult-like devotion to Trump to make a guilty verdict have potentially scary outcomes. Doubt anything like Jan 6, but still not great.
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Jun 11, 2023 22:41
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Discendo Vox posted:Because the standard practice would be to put the scale-establishing ruler on every photo of a piece of evidence. Yeah they are following the “how to photograph random evidence” procedure, not the “how to photograph papers” one.
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Jun 11, 2023 23:01
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Lord Harbor posted:...And then it's a hung jury so they just redo the trial. That'd definitely suck and give the right wing a bunch of ammunition, but it's not an acquittal.
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Jun 11, 2023 23:16
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Discendo Vox posted:Because the standard practice would be to put the scale-establishing ruler on every photo of a piece of evidence. This is a best practice for documenting most anything that is going to be involved in a lawsuit. It’s a bit excessive for documents but it’s possible to have documents that aren’t standard paper sizes in a file. I might do if I were capturing a mix of letter sized docs mixed in with say big blueprint pages or other detailed drawings or schematics and it was all about the documents.
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Jun 11, 2023 23:24
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https://youtu.be/Yn0L67s9iWg Michael Popok*, notes that the court clerk was likely responsible for entering the indictment, selected "related" to previous case, hence Cannon as intake. Also noted that it was filed in Miami, so the trial would be in Miami and Cannon would have to travel the 100mi to preside. Mostly though, Cannon will self recuse or the DOJ will file with the 11th circuit for reassignment. Also a repeated, though not explained statement, This is a jury trial. 4:40 * Not that I follow this person. Executive partner of a firm in NY with multiple affiliate locations.
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Jun 11, 2023 23:37
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:But this exactly happens in that one Dirty Harry movie! So going back to this, that isn't actually what happens in the first Dirty Harry film. Yes Harry Calahan and his partner break into the hideout of the person they suspect is the killer and all the evidence found is tainted. However what happens is the DA refuses to charge him as he knows what Harry has done will result in a mistral and taking it to Court will just be a massive waste of money. Funnily enough while in law school I had to write an assignment on a case and use a film as part of a legal argument. And the film I chose was Dirty Harry and how some of the facts were mirrored in an Irish case from the 70s. Basically it was two men were driving around Ireland and kidnapping and murdering women. At the time they were caught (for driving with a broken rear indicator) one of their victims was thought to have still been alive. The court had to do a balancing act as to whether the polices breach of the accused's Constitutional rights could be weighed against the potential right to life of their kidnapped victim who police believed they could save. In actuality, the kidnapped women were all long dead by the time the two men were caught. Also reading between the lines (ad was common at the time) it's very likely that confessions were beaten out of the suspects but the court did it's best to pretend all their injuries were caused by them getting too excited whilst in custody. (The thrust of my essay was how the Judges might have been influenced how similar the scenario was to Dirty Harry and tried to come up with a way of righting the wrong of the movie.) Anyway, back on topic. I think Donny is pretty screwed on this one. Someone should go on TV and compare him to a dog, just tonsee how angry it makes Trump.
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Jun 12, 2023 00:19
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The Question IRL posted:However what happens is the DA refuses to charge him as he knows what Harry has done will result in a mistral and taking it to Court will just be a massive waste of money. quote:Mr. D'Ambrosia, this case is a travesty. But I definitely don't know one blurt about how things play out in the real judicial system so please keep sharing with us to keep us from getting too crazy in here. 
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Jun 12, 2023 00:36
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Typically judges bend over backwards to avoid granting suppression motions. The last time I saw it happen was a case where a dude got swarmed by four cop cars while sitting in his own car in the parking lot of his girlfriend's apartment, and the cops shouted "stop, remain in the vehicle" before they knew who he was or anything and had no other reason to detain or search him (they later said they "smelled marijuana" but crucially that was after they'd already detained him), and all they found was a few ounces of marijuana. Plus then the cop lied on the stand, saying it was a "high crime area" but later admitting there hadn't been any incident there in the past six months. Judge said it was the only suppression motion he had ever granted.
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Jun 12, 2023 01:28
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:https://youtu.be/Yn0L67s9iWg If I had giant brass balls I would go into the oppositions home turf with their chosen champion and win anyway. Maybe Bratt and Smith want to be in Cannons court? They ate her lunch last time. Edit: also, there seems to be another shoe to drop. There is a trail of evidence that winds through Bedminster NJ that the current indictment just doesn’t really address other than that they are aware Trump took material there and was observed to have it there. If later evidence of crime shows up in NJ would that case get removed to Florida or vice versa? I doubt if two very similar cases would get tried independently. Murgos fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 01:45
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Discendo Vox posted:The ruler is to establish scale. It's normal for evidence documentation. Except their main point in the article makes sense, those top secret cover sheets don't have a border. The white border implies that it's a color copy
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Jun 12, 2023 02:03
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:https://youtu.be/Yn0L67s9iWg Michael Popok is part of the MeidasTouch network. The podcasts "Can" be a little over the top because they have one where Michael Cohen just rants and drops Fbombs with Ben Meiseles - but Legal AF with Meiselas, Ben and Karen Friedman Agnifilo is a good listen.
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Jun 12, 2023 02:15
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dont all modern printers have printer dots used to trace things?
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Jun 12, 2023 04:04
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It's going to be a total madhouse outside the court where Trump gets arraigned on Tuesday right?
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Jun 12, 2023 04:36
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PhazonLink posted:dont all modern printers have printer dots used to trace things? No
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Jun 12, 2023 04:49
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Charliegrs posted:It's going to be a total madhouse outside the court where Trump gets arraigned on Tuesday right? In Florida no less.
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Jun 12, 2023 05:03
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Charliegrs posted:It's going to be a total madhouse outside the court where Trump gets arraigned on Tuesday right? At this time I rule the defendant be held without bail for his own protection. This facility is locked down until the arrival of the national guard and the rioters are removed. The defendant shall then be transported together with his SS detachment to a federal prison awaiting trial scheduling, location to be determined. At such time I shall recuse myself and a trial judge will be assigned. (Gavel)."
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Jun 12, 2023 05:07
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:All day, yeah. Seems the best argument for, "Whelp Mr (defense lawyer, if he has one), your client has seen fit to solicit armed rioters to this courthouse. Therefore I have no choice for our own security but to instruct the bailiff to immediately collect all cellphones... Immediate gag order on all present, and I will hold in contempt any violation. Cool fanfiction
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Jun 12, 2023 05:29
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:https://youtu.be/Yn0L67s9iWg CNN said it's a West palm beach grand jury that's only sitting in Miami due to covid reasons. So it was not officially filed in Miami. The indictment filing sheet does have West palm beach division on it.
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Jun 12, 2023 05:30
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Fart Amplifier posted:Cool fanfiction Donald Trump sighed as he holstered his cellphone
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Jun 12, 2023 06:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I don't mean to be all cite please but has this literally ever happened in a federal case because I just looked and couldn't find an instance where it has. I mean I'm just on my phone now so maybe I just ain't lookin right There's some precedent for it, actually. Fong Foo v. U.S., 369 U.S. 141 (1962), was a case where the judge ordered a judgment of acquittal in the middle of the government's case, and wasn't very shy about it: quote:On the first point, the Government had only examined three of its witnesses, and was in the process of examining a fourth when the acquittal was entered. The first and third witnesses were merely preliminary, offered to identify documents and explain the functions performed by the individual defendants for the corporate defendant. The second was offered to give the jury an explanation of radiosondes, devices for gathering whether data, which petitioners were furnishing the Government under contracts totaling several million dollars. It was during the latter's testimony -- entirely explanatory -- that the court called a recess for the stated purpose of requiring the United States Attorney to "consider whether the public interest is served by a further prosecution of this case." In modern cases it's usually cited for the proposition that if a judgment of acquittal is based on the question of guilt or innocence, it's not reviewable even if it was egregiously wrong. So, theoretically, it could happen. (Whether it's likely or not is a whole other thing, obviously.) raminasi posted:My understanding of the concerns out there isn’t that Cannon will let the trial play out “normally” and then direct acquittal, it’s that either she’ll interfere so egregiously that she lets all the air out of the airtight case or that Trump will waive his right to a jury and be acquitted after Cannon spends two weeks playing Candy Crush during a farce of a bench trial. I’m not trying to JAQ off here, and I have no relevant knowledge myself: Are there procedural obstacles to either of those? A bench trial would be prevented by FRCrP 23, which requires the government's consent to the waiver. Pretrial rulings suppressing evidence or dismissing the case would be appealable to the 11th circuit, and the government will try to litigate as much of that prior to trial as they can.
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Jun 12, 2023 06:54
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Cannon will have to do a lot to gently caress up the government’s case. It sounds like their case is going to be that 1) he took the documents 2) once they realized he took the documents and asked to get them back, testimony shows he floated the idea of “not playing ball” 3) once lawyers convinced him he had to play ball, he gave back a few, convinced a lawyer to sign an official statement saying this was all he had, and then that lawyer, knowing what an awful idea that was, convinced another lawyer to sign the statement, and during this time he even had people move documents around in an effort to *hide them from his own lawyers* 3) after having held on to many more documents and being caught with those, it came out that he’d been taped saying “these are classified, and I can’t declassify them any more because I’m no longer president” (LOL) I suppose she could try to say the lawyer-client confidentiality should not have been broken in the first place, in an effort to defang the government’s case, but the lawyers cooperated with the government because they knew he was asking them to do things that were against the law —————- Separately from all that, I vividly remember back in summer of 2020, when he was sending customs and border patrol agents around in Portland in unmarked vehicles and unmarked uniforms to literally snatch people off the street, who would then be black-bagged and taken to holding facilities for purposes of intimidation, where they were told they’d be released so long as they agreed not to sue or press charges for unlawful detention. There’s also that famous pic where he had stormtroopers in unmarked uniforms perched on the step on the Lincoln Monument, in an effort to prevent “ANTIFA” from “defacing” it. These were also CPB agents. Then there was the time he sent them out to clear the area between the White House bunker he’d been hiding in and that church, so he could walk over to a church he’d never been in to appeal to a religion he’d never been a part of, for a photo op where he initially held the Bible (it’s A Bible) upside-down. And during this whole time, he was tweeting 2-3 times a day, “LAW AND ORDER!!!” Which is a total LOL
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Jun 12, 2023 08:35
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PhazonLink posted:dont all modern printers have printer dots used to trace things? Color lasers do, though it looks like there's software now to circumvent it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code
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Jun 12, 2023 08:59
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MrMojok posted:Cannon will have to do a lot to gently caress up the government’s case. Yeah I'm really not worried about Cannon. She could definitely throw some curve balls and slow down things but I think the more obvious she shows favoritism like last time the easier it is to appeal. Frankly if the federal prosecutors aren't anticipating this and have a plan in place already they are just plain incompetent. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 11:12
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Pants Donkey posted:
I understand you're most likely not saying this, but I need to say it. I don't like arguments like this because it always comes off as "We shouldn't/be careful about doing it because it might make people mad" and that's not rule of law or a civilized society at that point. We need to appeal decisions we don't like through politics, not violence. The last time this happened some idiot shot a FBI office with a nail gun and he got drilled full of holes. And everyone has forgotten about him. Without looking him up, can you say his name? I can't. It hasn't even been a year. That's the fate of anyone stupid enough to throw their lives away for Donald Trump. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 11:26
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Pants Donkey seems to be mentioning it just analytically, I think most people here totally get that the two options are to hold people accountable and the Maga types go berserk, or capitulate to try to placate them (and have them grow more berserk anyway because they're fascists)
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Jun 12, 2023 12:33
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If Trump thinks hes going to lose, he's going to call in his insurgents to save him. The problem is, I think Cannon thinks she's one of them too , and not a target herself. Donnie has no loyalty to anyone, and won't have any for Cannon either.
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Jun 12, 2023 13:22
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1668256929678802945
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Jun 12, 2023 15:30
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Can someone tell me if the truly bizarre situation of the President being taken to trial with a public defender is possible or is that not a thing for federal cases? The only experience I have is with county level "here is your PD, they will literally never talk to you, say guilty and pay the fine [gavel]" which is I know very different than federal espionage court
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Jun 12, 2023 15:34
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projecthalaxy posted:Can someone tell me if the truly bizarre situation of the President being taken to trial with a public defender is possible or is that not a thing for federal cases? The only experience I have is with county level "here is your PD, they will literally never talk to you, say guilty and pay the fine [gavel]" which is I know very different than federal espionage court It would be pretty loving hilarious if he was so blacklisted by competent lawyers that this happens.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:41
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projecthalaxy posted:Can someone tell me if the truly bizarre situation of the President being taken to trial with a public defender is possible or is that not a thing for federal cases? The only experience I have is with county level "here is your PD, they will literally never talk to you, say guilty and pay the fine [gavel]" which is I know very different than federal espionage court My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that a PD is only going to step in if someone can’t afford an attorney. They won’t be granted if someone just doesn’t want to hire one, or if (and this would be unprecedented I’m sure) they can’t find one who will take the case.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:58
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projecthalaxy posted:Can someone tell me if the truly bizarre situation of the President being taken to trial with a public defender is possible or is that not a thing for federal cases? The only experience I have is with county level "here is your PD, they will literally never talk to you, say guilty and pay the fine [gavel]" which is I know very different than federal espionage court He would have to assert in court before a judge that his income was below the federal poverty line such that he could not afford an attorney.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:00
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Thank you for the answers, everyone! The rural NM county court doesn't get many very unpopular millionaires so I wasn't sure how the whole "right to representation" worked with just "everybody thinks you're a loser" E: the federal poverty line for a family of 3 (himself, Ivana, Barron, I think) is a household income of $21,960.00 or less. I haven't seen the fabled unredacted tax returns, but he's got a nice place for $12/hr projecthalaxy fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 16:03
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One weird trick: prosecutors hate it.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:06
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projecthalaxy posted:Thank you for the answers, everyone! The rural NM county court doesn't get many very unpopular millionaires so I wasn't sure how the whole "right to representation" worked with just "everybody thinks you're a loser" I mean yeah but I don't think the federal public defender would be appointed in that situation. PDs are just for the broke. The issue Trump has is finding counsel willing to be hired by him who has the necessary clearances / qualifications to handle an espionage case. I imagine someone would be appointed but he'd have to prove he couldn't hire anyone first, I think.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:07
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There is another option: Trump insists on representing himself. Afterall noone knows the law like him.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:11
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Bah gawd, I think that's Rudy's music! *Rudy comes barreling into the courtroom, slips on his own hair goo and breaks his neck.*
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Jun 12, 2023 16:12
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I don't see "oops, couldn't find a lawyer, and I'm rich, so no PD for me. Guess we have to reschedule" as something that will work here
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Jun 12, 2023 16:12
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How is at all handled with someone as difficult to work with as Trump, though? No one remotely qualified or skilled wants to work with him anymore because they've all seen how that works out. Also he's probably asking them to do crimes on his behalf. Isn't it likely he just poisons whatever relationship with anyone appointed by the court as well? Just tantrums out like a giant baby since it's his only remaining move? Is there such a thing as defense treating their own client hostilely? Certainly never at this level, I would imagine, if so.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:14
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