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I hope Beyond's epilogue has Hobie and Spider-Noir going to punch Nazis together.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:27
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Now I'm picturing Terry McGinnis falling in and just rolling with it.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:29
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We need Italian Spider-Man in the next movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhHhXukovMU
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Jun 12, 2023 15:38
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Speaking of Miguel, I need this to happen: https://twitter.com/princessxemnas/status/1668100900022304768?s=46&t=AetWNzVtmuQD8ipxc8Y3Pw
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Jun 12, 2023 15:47
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Captain Jesus posted:Jesus, that's really weak surface reading. lol it's all thrown in your face. It's telling you straight up everything you need to know about Miguel. If you think that's weak, well okay, but it's not wrong. Then you go and say he's not a bad guy. Of course not! That's my point. He's an antagonist in this movie, but he's just like every other Spider-Man in that he's driven by guilt and responsibility. Yeah he's big and scary, but he's still Spider-Man. People saying he's Morlun or that he's going to be the REAL big bad are completely wrong. He's going to learn that his way of doing things isn't necessarily the right way of doing things and Miles is likely right in that Spider-Man should try to save everyone. We saw how Jess looked to be having second thoughts when Miles said that they're supposed to be the good guys. Miguel is gonna come around that way too. If Miguel was really evil, he wouldn't have helped Gwen. Because remember, he was dead set on not helping her or bringing her in until after he saw her skill and after he saw her confrontation with her father. He was even the one to help her out of that situation and then provide an escape. He's Spider-Man: doing his best and making mistakes but learning from them and beneath it all, has a good heart.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:47
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Miguel would absolutely 100% know to not get into it with a puertorican mom. Absolutely no chance he takes that fight.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:48
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The real big bad is the Spot. It’s very clear. Miguel is misguided and scary but a good guy trying to do his best.
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Jun 12, 2023 15:53
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Miguel is a dang jerk
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Jun 12, 2023 15:56
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I don't really think there needs to be a big bad
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Jun 12, 2023 16:05
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Miguel is very bluntly a dude suffering from extreme guilt over his mistakes and desperate to prevent them from happening again You may recognize that as thr most Spider-Man rear end thing it is possible to be. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 16:12
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He's got that I accidentally genocided billions cause I thought I could be happy ptsd. Really gently caress you up
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Jun 12, 2023 16:17
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I think the reason we see elements of Miguel's Spider-Man-ness questioned is not because he isn't a Spider-Man, but rather because "what makes someone a real Spider-Man?" is a very important theme of the movie. Is Miguel a real Spider-Man if he isn't funny? Is Miles a real Spider-Man if he was never supposed to be bit? Can Pavitir be a real Spider-Man if he doesn't see a cop he likes get crushed by rubble? Do we define our own identity, of does the narrative define it for us? There's an interesting mirror question with the Spot as well. He is defining himself by his relationship to Spider-Man, and that leads to his escalation. I think his defeat will not come from punching, but rather from Miles actively changing their relationship.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:22
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Fangz posted:I don't really think there needs to be a big bad Genuinely be surprised if the film doesn't end with Miles using his established mental connection with the spot to pull him out of the hole hes thrown himself in, so to speak.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:24
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Captain Jesus posted:Jesus, that's really weak surface reading. I feel like this debate is getting reaaallly hung up on the term "bad guy" when the point of a ton of super hero media is that it's a relative idea. Like everyone is in agreement that Miguel is the antagonist, that he's misguided in his current mission, that he does both well meaning but also hosed up stuff; the main point of contention here seems to be whether the sum of his actions equal to "bad guy" or "not bad guy", which IMO is a really overly simplistic way to look at things.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:31
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I hope miles kills the spot. You must kill the evil or else they come back in the sequel
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Jun 12, 2023 16:36
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GateOfD posted:What I like even with how Miguel is acting, I think its totally in line with being a spider-man. The conviction to hold true to your beliefs. Great Power, comes responsibility etc. Gaius Marius posted:He's got that I accidentally genocided billions cause I thought I could be happy ptsd. Really gently caress you up ImpAtom posted:Miguel is very bluntly a dude suffering from extreme guilt over his mistakes and desperate to prevent them from happening again I think this all rounds out his character nicely. He's Spider-Man. Spider-Man's whole thing is that he is entirely too willing to sacrifice himself because of his guilt. They talked about it in the first movie about how Spider-Man more or less *must* lose someone. Spider-Man's entire sense of morality is practically defined by trauma. So, yes, Miguel is most certainly Miguel. He is the antagonist of this movie. I think he's trying to force his experiences on others as they are the only valid ones. Sounds.... very parental. I'm interested in seeing how and why he comes around and what the broader implications become. Like, are we going to get innumerable Spider-Men suddenly getting re-traumatized by Uncle Ben's death now that the crutch of "It's OK because of the multiverse" get's kicked out from under them? (Ok, I know it's not that, but people will have fun arguing) Pigma_Micron fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 16:44
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Codependent Poster posted:lol it's all thrown in your face. It's telling you straight up everything you need to know about Miguel. If you think that's weak, well okay, but it's not wrong. Even Miles in the movie doubts that Miguel is Spider-Man and there are features to him to make us question it. I now understand that your definition of "bad guy" is some cartoon snideley whiplash type villain which is not the point I was making. He might not be intentionally evil but his ideology leads to harmful ends and he harbors hate and resentment. It remains to be seen if he has a change of heart.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:48
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Pigma_Micron posted:I think this all rounds out his character nicely. He's Spider-Man. Spider-Man's whole thing is that he is entirely too willing to sacrifice himself because of his guilt. The problem with this reading is that Miguel is ready to sacrifice others ( i.e. Miles' dad ), not himself, to preserve his idea of what is right, which is definitely not a Spider-Man thing to do.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:53
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Remember in Wreck-It Ralph when Zangief says "just because you are bad guy doesn't mean you are bad guy"? Miguel is a bad guy but not a bad guy.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:55
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Captain Jesus posted:The problem with this reading is that Miguel is ready to sacrifice others ( i.e. Miles' dad ), not himself, to preserve his idea of what is right, which is definitely not a Spider-Man thing to do. The issue is that as far as we know Miguel has a reason to believe that breaking canon kills a universe. He could be wrong but his belief is genuine enough. He thinks these events need to happen or everyone dies because he believed the same as Miles and got burned for it. Like literally entire armies of Spider-Men agree with him. It isn't just him or him keeping it a secret. It isnt even him lying because Peter B backs him up.
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Jun 12, 2023 17:07
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He would sacrifice himself if he had reason to believe it would be effective, as it is he has no reason to believe it would be.
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Jun 12, 2023 17:10
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I love that person A accused person B of having a surface reading of who Miguel is, and then proceeded to use 'look at his designs! And he has fangs and Claws! And his webbing looks like something evil!!' As their justification for their own belief. Miguel both has rhe traits of an evil guy and a good guy throughout the movie shown off. Both emotional and physical. He's definitely missing the forest for the trees during the movie, and getting caught up in his own self justifications. And he's certainly the antagonist for the movie. But it'd be extremely dumb if they just turn him full evil and make him the end game bad guy. It's important to note that only a year has happened since Into the Spiderverse. Within which he receives the first watch. That means that him living out a happy life and having the whole world end for it happened within the last year. He isn't some head of an ancient society of spidermen, he's the head of a new group of spidermen he has recruited because reality portals keep opening up all over and he wants to help. If any reveal is coming, it's that he doesn't know all the rules of the universe as well as he thinks he does. Anyways my vote for 'big bad' is Lyla. Idk why. But something about her rubs me as bad. The way she intentionally spends every scene she's on screen riling Miguel up, how she perfectly creates and supplements his explanation on the 'verse... I dunno. Maybe she's just meant to be funny, but the way it done makes me wonder if she's gaslighting him and the society. Edit: She also is the one who destroys Peter B's actually semi successful attempt at talking down Miles and deescalating of rhe situation. Peter B was making a genuine connection to Miles just for her to go 'great job Peter, sending all spider people to your location'. There was no need to announce that out loud besides to drive a wedge between Miles and Peter B. Even just quietly sending the spider people would have been more effective. The more I talk about it the more I feel convinced she's at the core manipulating everyone. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 17:28
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I think the confusion is that there's a difference between "this guy is the antagonist because he genuinely believes it's for the greater good and ends up at cross purposes with the main character" and "this guy is the antagonist because he's the bad guy tricking everyone into thinking that he's the former" which is what the Morb theory is.
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Jun 12, 2023 17:38
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Captain Jesus posted:The problem with this reading is that Miguel is ready to sacrifice others ( i.e. Miles' dad ), not himself, to preserve his idea of what is right, which is definitely not a Spider-Man thing to do. Yeah, exactly. That's what makes him an antagonist Spider-Man. I don't think it thematically inappropriate for Miguel to force trauma onto others to make sense of his own. I think that's in line with "Spider-Man" in general and this Spider-Man in particular. This is expressed most hurtfully when Peter B. Parker lets it slip that Capt. Jeff's "destiny" has been discussed and (at least tacitly) agreed upon. Miguel doesn't want or need others to suffer needlessly, but a whole lot Spiders-Man seem to think that these tragedies are absolutely necessary for *every* Spider-Man. Otherwise, maybe their own trauma wasn't strictly necessary either and that's a difficult notion to face.
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Jun 12, 2023 17:41
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mycot posted:I think the confusion is that there's a difference between "this guy is the antagonist because he genuinely believes it's for the greater good and ends up at cross purposes with the main character" and "this guy is the antagonist because he's the bad guy tricking everyone into thinking that he's the former" which is what the Morb theory is.
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Jun 12, 2023 18:01
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At some point he probably will be saying "it's too late to stop me, miles!" as a big canon laser fires into the sky though.
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Jun 12, 2023 18:57
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A laser canon if you will
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Jun 12, 2023 18:59
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CelticPredator posted:I hope miles kills the spot. You must kill the evil or else they come back in the sequel EVIL DIES TONIGHT
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Jun 12, 2023 19:28
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Out damned spot!
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Jun 12, 2023 19:32
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Canonically Spider-Man doesn't kill people. Too bad Miles doesn't care about canon....
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Jun 12, 2023 19:33
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Spider-Man killed mark Webbs career
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Jun 12, 2023 19:33
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Miguel is just overworked and needs a nap. He’s not evil, just never gets a day off. 2099 and no paid vacation still.
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Jun 12, 2023 19:48
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checkplease posted:Miguel is just overworked and needs a nap. He’s not evil, just never gets a day off. 2099 and no paid vacation still.
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Jun 12, 2023 19:50
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He waits in line to get on the frontier flight and the couple in front of them gets pulled out to check their backpack to see if it fits. It does not they have to pay 100 dollars to allow it on the plane He does not stop this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgD_TxzjniU
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Jun 12, 2023 19:52
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Miguel is Spider-Dad and he has to deal with hundreds of Peter Parkers every day. Of course he's gonna be exhausted. He needs It would explain why one of his best is Lego Spider-Man.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:06
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KittyEmpress posted:I love that person A accused person B of having a surface reading of who Miguel is, and then proceeded to use 'look at his designs! And he has fangs and Claws! And his webbing looks like something evil!!' As their justification for their own belief. I mentioned the design only to rebuke the first guy after he built his entire argument on the surface reading, after I provided thematic reasons why I think the Miguel is an antagonist. So I really love how you ignore just you so can make a cheeky opening to your own argument.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:37
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ImpAtom posted:The issue is that as far as we know Miguel has a reason to believe that breaking canon kills a universe. He could be wrong but his belief is genuine enough. He thinks these events need to happen or everyone dies because he believed the same as Miles and got burned for it. I mean, sure, but this is just the description of the plot without any thematic analysis. Miguel is not a real person but a character in a movie who functions as a foil to Miles. The character believes something that we as audience know is wrong because it clashes with the arc of the protagonist. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong (because I can't remember this part all that well), Miguel destroyed that universe because he wanted to replace another version of himself that died and because he wanted to have a family. He thought it was ok, but it had catastrophic results. This mirrors the story of Kingpin in the first movie, not Miles.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:45
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I don’t understand how this film was made apparently without sweatshop labor. How can they pack so much style and detail into every frame? They really need to do a massive behind the scenes for this and have that video be a core module taught at art school from here on out. The ambition and achievement here is insane.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:49
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Do we have any clue as to when part 2 is going to drop?
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Jun 12, 2023 21:06
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:58 |
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https://twitter.com/chrizmillr/status/1668337077770137604 No digital release until August 2023 at the earliest which means physical will be probably October or November. October makes more sense because Spider-Man 2 drops October 20th.
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Jun 12, 2023 21:14
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