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I wasn't really keeping up with this game very much, but I watched some of the presentation and this really feels like one of those 'this is the kind of game we always dreamed people would make someday' releases if they can stick the landing. Maybe it'll all just feel like soulless procgen garbage, idk, but I can't fault them for lack of ambition at least. Even just from an iterative perspective, I'm looking forward to seeing a better version of Fallout 4's base building mechanics that isn't just various forms of ugly destroyed poo poo, and I hope they find a way to include some kind of outpost stuff in Elder Scrolls 6 too.
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Jun 13, 2023 16:53
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I guess I don't really mind 30fps on console, it's just that the combat footage we saw on Sunday, didn't really leave me much confidence that the 30fps is smooth and stable.
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Jun 13, 2023 16:53
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Tankbuster posted:yeah, but games like the witcher etc manage to do good facial animations but apparently the process is hell for games with loads of dialog. So a lot of Witcher was automated like Bethesda games, but seems the system they used allowed more tailoring, there's an article about it here: https://www.pcgamer.com/most-of-the-witcher-3s-dialogue-scenes-was-animated-by-an-algorithm/ Where is in creation kit, seems you set an animation for the character, than you set an emotion and strength of that emotion (between 1-100) for each line of dialogue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQMkVcekHUk&t=426s So Yeah looks like even though they both were pretty automated Witcher 3 engine allowed for more tailoring of the process. Although I'm sure there are probably hacky was in Creation Kit to do in line emotion changes and what not, it doesn't look like it's as easy to do by default.
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Jun 13, 2023 16:55
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To save time, you usually use a program to do facial animations for things like NPCs, but for important characters and cinematics you go in and do it the hard way
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Jun 13, 2023 16:58
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Or be absolutely insane and mocap every single voiced line in the game like Horizon Forbidden West did.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:00
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funkymonks posted:I love to bash these games as much as anyone but the character movement and combat animations are substantially improved from Fallout 4. Enemy reactions to being shot are much better and everything looks less floaty. Agreed that facial animations aren't great. less floaty? the game has zero G combat.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:05
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ymgve posted:are we sure it's not capped at 30 on PC too? why would it be? Capping the framerate only makes sense on lovely console hardware
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Jun 13, 2023 17:08
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dr_rat posted:So a lot of Witcher was automated like Bethesda games, but seems the system they used allowed more tailoring, there's an article about it here: https://www.pcgamer.com/most-of-the-witcher-3s-dialogue-scenes-was-animated-by-an-algorithm/ Where is in creation kit, seems you set an animation for the character, than you set an emotion and strength of that emotion (between 1-100) for each line of dialogue. It really helped that with Witcher every character was fully animated, with gesturing, shifting weight, twitching etc, even if it was all just blending stock animations. A character with the world's best facial animations will still look like a creepy robot if they otherwise stand perfectly still and only track the pc with their head.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:20
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I said come in! posted:I guess I don't really mind 30fps on console, it's just that the combat footage we saw on Sunday, didn't really leave me much confidence that the 30fps is smooth and stable. I thought the combat looked relatively stable for the 30 fps that it is, but the slow panning while standing on a surface seemed to be very jittery.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:21
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Ulio posted:Well apparently this is in Creation Engine 2. But imo I still can't tell the difference in terms of scale between Creation engine and gamebryo. So I doubt this is much different. It just seems like a very incremental improvement but with the same flaws of it's previous versions. They've been slowly ripping out and replacing various chunks of the engine (lighting, scripting, character modeling, UI, etc.) over the course of multiple games so you have that Ship of Theseus question as to whether it's the same engine. Their data formats have largely remained the same though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they actually are the same animations being reused albeit with support for new interactions.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:33
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eh they did completely change the animation system between skyrim and fallout 4. The former still requires specialized tools for more animations like FNIS and later Nemesis animation builder.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:37
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I guess my expectations are just different after 20 years of playing video games but I see the touted 1000 planets as a huge negative and a big red flag. A lot of the reasons for that have been said in the thread but I just don't see the point of putting a big barren moon or whatever in the game that I can technically land on anywhere I want and go spelunking when the reason for me being there is a visible from space quest marker that says "GO HERE FOR QUEST" and then I sit through a cutscene and a stealth section and I'm off again. The colony thing is absolutely going to be you dropping a few boxes on a planet and you can come back to collect resources every few in-game weeks, and it's just 30 people homesteading instead of a glorious undertaking showcasing human perseverance and surviving in hostile environments and the cultural and societal challenges it brings.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:40
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Look, Bethesda should be able to re-use all of their old stuff and still be working on a modified version of the same engine they were using 25 years ago OR they can take a decade to make a game. They shouldn't be allowed to do both!
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Jun 13, 2023 17:41
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZszOBVoREVg&t=9609s (Relevant part starts around 2h 40m) So apparently the game had a significantly earlier release date before Microsoft did its thing, and they claim it to be in a much less buggy state than other Bethesda releases.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:41
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Demiurge4 posted:I guess my expectations are just different after 20 years of playing video games but I see the touted 1000 planets as a huge negative and a big red flag. A lot of the reasons for that have been said in the thread but I just don't see the point of putting a big barren moon or whatever in the game that I can technically land on anywhere jokes on you I'm into that poo poo. I wish mass effect 1 had a lot more planets to mako around
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Jun 13, 2023 17:46
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Same, I'm going to be a space hermit avoiding civilization, running around desert worlds scanning stuff and building my sweet base with a million planters.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:03
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Demiurge4 posted:I guess my expectations are just different after 20 years of playing video games but I see the touted 1000 planets as a huge negative and a big red flag. A lot of the reasons for that have been said in the thread but I just don't see the point of putting a big barren moon or whatever in the game that I can technically land on anywhere I want and go spelunking when the reason for me being there is a visible from space quest marker that says "GO HERE FOR QUEST" and then I sit through a cutscene and a stealth section and I'm off again. That number of planets is mostly filler, but at the same time it'll be extremely popular with the settlement building crowd who get to have giant sandboxes to gently caress around with. I expect there's going to be "coolest planets to build a vacation home" type lists going pretty much immediately after launch. Once you factor in modding it's a massive boon there as well because it gives a ton of space to work in with minimal risk of conflicts. Not everyone cares about that sort of thing as can be evidenced by the complaints people have about Fallout settlements, but there are a substantial number of people who put hundreds of hours into their little scrap metal outposts too. With any luck the random encounter system is easy to add things to so we can add more variety over time. In retrospect I don't know if I've ever seen anyone add to the FO4 random encounter lists which this is probably based on though.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:04
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I don't think there's a single enemy in that whole presentation that did a single thing besides being a target. Also, it's loving hilarious how they think that randomly generated quests are a feature and not a red flag.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:07
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I was about to say this game might break new ground in getting bad reviews from people with hundreds of hours played, and then I remembered that service games exist.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:13
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Xakura posted:jokes on you I'm into that poo poo.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:14
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Jack Trades posted:I don't think there's a single enemy in that whole presentation that did a single thing besides being a target.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:16
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dr_rat posted:So a lot of Witcher was automated like Bethesda games, but seems the system they used allowed more tailoring, there's an article about it here: https://www.pcgamer.com/most-of-the-witcher-3s-dialogue-scenes-was-animated-by-an-algorithm/ Where is in creation kit, seems you set an animation for the character, than you set an emotion and strength of that emotion (between 1-100) for each line of dialogue. 
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Jun 13, 2023 18:17
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Important scenes in Witcher 3 had all bespoke facial animations. The system for automated facial animations and camera angles was used primarily in side-quests and less important scenes. But yeah, it was really loving good and Bethesda would never had the talent to even come close to anything like that.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:19
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Why didn't they use that NVIDIA Hairworks technology for this game, but only for the beards?
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Jun 13, 2023 18:24
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Jack Trades posted:Important scenes in Witcher 3 had all bespoke facial animations. The system for automated facial animations and camera angles was used primarily in side-quests and less important scenes. I think CDPR licensed that tech, or maybe that was for CP77? There was a GDC talk and a paper about it, I think a group out of University of Toronto.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:25
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Ulio posted:Well apparently this is in Creation Engine 2. But imo I still can't tell the difference in terms of scale between Creation engine and gamebryo. So I doubt this is much different. It just seems like a very incremental improvement but with the same flaws of it's previous versions. There are engine-specific bugs and traits that've stayed the exact same since Canyon Runner (one of the first games made in the engine, and referenced in its paper).
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Jun 13, 2023 18:29
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isndl posted:That number of planets is mostly filler, but at the same time it'll be extremely popular with the settlement building crowd who get to have giant sandboxes to gently caress around with. I expect there's going to be "coolest planets to build a vacation home" type lists going pretty much immediately after launch. Once you factor in modding it's a massive boon there as well because it gives a ton of space to work in with minimal risk of conflicts. Not everyone cares about that sort of thing as can be evidenced by the complaints people have about Fallout settlements, but there are a substantial number of people who put hundreds of hours into their little scrap metal outposts too. people add stuff to the encounter system in both skyrim and fallout all the time. My skyrim modded game always has imperial, thalmor and stormcloak patrols going from their little hideyholes, patrolling, getting into fights with assorted wildlife and each other.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:32
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Honestly I don't care about the voice acting and facial animations, if the showcase is 60% true to the actual thing and the gameplay loop is satisfying it'll be my GOTY.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:33
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Subjunctive posted:I think CDPR licensed that tech, or maybe that was for CP77? There was a GDC talk and a paper about it, I think a group out of University of Toronto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa3_Mfqu8KA
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Jun 13, 2023 18:42
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Kuiperdolin posted:Same, I'm going to be a space hermit avoiding civilization, running around desert worlds scanning stuff and building my sweet base with a million planters. 
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Jun 13, 2023 18:46
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https://twitter.com/shinobi602/status/1668676617026019347
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Jun 13, 2023 18:50
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it was really boring and unsatisfying to build and have bases in FO4 and it will be the same way in Starfield but i hope they have a few cool things you can do when you go back. like settle a dispute within the colony that has created factions or something like that. maybe some mods will have that sort of stuff. I like the games
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Jun 13, 2023 18:51
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I think it's funny that every QA team in Microsoft are currently working on Starfield like some epic battle between the unstoppable force of one of the biggest tech companies on the planet vs. the immovable load bearing bugs of a Bethesda game.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:54
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rope kid posted:CDPR used Jali for CP2077. That's it, thank you. I couldn't remember the name. I think it worked pretty well, but I don't know about non-English voice matching.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:55
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Building weird houses in FO76 could be kind of fun though, its not all about the lovely settlements. Together with the ship customization they might have some stellar builder and decoration catnip on their hands. e: the hype these last few days have been weird, feels like morrowind or oblivion all over again but concentrated as poo poo. I wonder how many copies they've sold already.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:56
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Tankbuster posted:people add stuff to the encounter system in both skyrim and fallout all the time. My skyrim modded game always has imperial, thalmor and stormcloak patrols going from their little hideyholes, patrolling, getting into fights with assorted wildlife and each other. Yeah that was all vanilla as I recall, though I remember mods to scale the numbers way up so it was dozens of NPCs instead of a few. Maybe there's stuff that I didn't notice because of how seamless it was in which case kudos to the modders.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:57
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1glitch0 posted:I think it's funny that every QA team in Microsoft are currently working on Starfield like some epic battle between the unstoppable force of one of the biggest tech companies on the planet vs. the immovable load bearing bugs of a Bethesda game. look to my bug reports on the first day of the fifth sprint
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Jun 13, 2023 18:59
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The Jali system sounds neat, I wonder how well it does with different languages as languages can have such a different mix of hard and soft sounds and meanings of emphases in words placed in different parts of the sentence. I can just imagine it being used with voice recordings from a langue it isn't used to and making all the characters just sad/angry/happy all the time, or making all the characters seem puzzled/quizzical as it thinks every sentence they say is a question. Edit: If you could weight the system it would actually be really great if for a low intelligence run of the game, they made it so it automatically animated your character as looking more confused during the entire game. Have all the normal animations but just with that hint of perpetual confusion on top of it. dr_rat fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 13, 2023 |
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Jun 13, 2023 19:05
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Cavauro posted:it was really boring and unsatisfying to build and have bases in FO4 and it will be the same way in Starfield but i hope they have a few cool things you can do when you go back. like settle a dispute within the colony that has created factions or something like that. maybe some mods will have that sort of stuff. I like the games the bases in FO4 allowed you to acquire crafting resources later on. The outposts in starfield largely seem to do the same.
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Jun 13, 2023 19:08
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isndl posted:Yeah that was all vanilla as I recall, though I remember mods to scale the numbers way up so it was dozens of NPCs instead of a few. Maybe there's stuff that I didn't notice because of how seamless it was in which case kudos to the modders. well modders are directly using the systems bethesda has set up. There's these neat NPC travel mods where I was roaming outside solitude and saw the girl thane wearing a full set of nordic plate hauling in a raider back to the city dungeons. Hell even things like animation, you have things like OAR/DAR which themselves allow for far more idle animation varieties using the script extender.
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Jun 13, 2023 19:12
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