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PurpleXVI posted:
I want to address this more directly. Neither Ukraine nor anyone else has a shred of responsibility for how Russia treats their own soldiers. If Putin adopted the WWII policy of handling their own recovered POWs as enemies of the state, would Ukraine have a responsibility to not take any Russians prisoner? Of course not, the very idea is ridiculous. If Putin decides to punish Russian soldiers for giving an interview, that similarly is neither Ukraine's fault or responsibility to mitigate. They are fighting a war for their very survival and if a few interviews help them continue to win the PR/propaganda war, they not only have the right but also the responsibility to pursue it.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:28
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Oh, yeah, I hope that these interviews help make the war more real for any potential fence-sitters that might be wondering whether to support Ukraine or not, it just makes me sad that a bunch of these guys might not be able to return home without having to look over their shoulder for the rest of their lives.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:30
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But it's not a war it is a special military operation 
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Jun 13, 2023 17:49
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These interviews might also have the effect of making it more difficult for the Russian MOD to raise additional forces, and they're already having difficulties in that area. Hopefully you can understand why I believe that publishing those videos could be seen as imperative for the Ukrainian propaganda service.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:49
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ded posted:But it's not a war it is a special military operation
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Jun 13, 2023 18:04
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Have we ruled out that Russia was just storing ammunition in the dam and someone had a smoking accident for real this time?
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Jun 13, 2023 19:29
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Blistex posted:Have we ruled out that Russia was just storing ammunition in the dam and someone had a smoking accident for real this time? Russia is such a shitshow that even with all the random industrial failures, it’s still really hard to say whether those were actual accidents from deferred maintenance, corruption/grift, et al and we’re just seeing more because people are paying more attention now, or actual sabotage by random groups of civilians/partisans (before you even get the actual Ukrainians involved).
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Jun 13, 2023 19:53
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They passed legislationlike last week that made it illegal to investigate any mishaps that happen to dams in occupied territory so yea, probably accidental
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Jun 13, 2023 21:08
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Blistex posted:Have we ruled out that Russia was just storing ammunition in the dam and someone had a smoking accident for real this time? Is there not also the possibility that the collapse of the dam due to malfeasance in management triggered the fuses in the ordinance that was rigged to blow there, and caused a chain reaction cook-off that accelerated the destruction.
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Jun 13, 2023 22:04
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Maybe the dam was just like JFK's head and it did that on its own?
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Jun 13, 2023 22:07
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Mederlock posted:Is there not also the possibility that the collapse of the dam due to malfeasance in management triggered the fuses in the ordinance that was rigged to blow there, and caused a chain reaction cook-off that accelerated the destruction. oh god the internet has ruined all sense of irony and I can't tell where this post lands.
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Jun 13, 2023 22:12
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CainFortea posted:oh god the internet has ruined all sense of irony and I can't tell where this post lands. Management triggered dam fuses. The dam ordinance used to defend the dam blew early, and there was a cook-off. Easy.
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Jun 13, 2023 22:16
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The russians pushed the button to blow up the dam, but because of maintenance failures the detonators didn't work. Then, due to other, unrelated maintenance failures, the dam was overtopped by water and broke, at which point the explosives detonated.
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Jun 13, 2023 22:20
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PurpleXVI posted:Oh, yeah, I hope that these interviews help make the war more real for any potential fence-sitters that might be wondering whether to support Ukraine or not, it just makes me sad that a bunch of these guys might not be able to return home without having to look over their shoulder for the rest of their lives. Be a lot sadder if they ate a bullet in a ditch
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Jun 13, 2023 22:34
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Honestly it's hard to rule anything out completely wrt how the dam disappeared. Something caused a bunch of reports of an explosion but that could or could not be unrelated and certainly in an active warzone there're a lot of reasons why people might hear an explosion in the middle of the night. There's FIRMS data suggesting something maybe blew up in the area, but nothing definitive (FIRMS data was being used early in the conflict to precisely locate various things that shouldn't be precisely located easily and then was taken down for a while before reappearing with apparently some significant degree of obfuscation built in so it's definitely not strictly dependable). Russia has footage from at least shortly after the breach (we know this because they released excerpts of it), but if they have footage showing clearly what happened, I doubt we will ever see it unless it serves some clear purpose for them to show it, which is hard to imagine what that could be. All that said, I think a coherent case has been made that it could've been the result of a non-explosive collapse, though I'm incredibly hostile to ever putting the word spontaneous near that. I pushed back a ton against the spontaneous collapse stuff on the day it happened because 1) there was no evidence it was spontaneous in any real sense 2) if you are administering a massive dam and it collapses under your watch you are utterly liable for the consequences of it and for the consequences of failing to warn/evacuate everyone and 3) I don't buy for a second that one of the largest dams in europe collapsed with no warning. 3 has since resolved because clearly the dam was having significant issues in the days leading up to the breach and instead Russia handled it in the worst possible way and failed to warn people downstream. I generally reject the idea that durr russia is too incompetent to manage a dam because russia has no problem administering many of the largest dams and reservoirs on the planet and has been doing so for a century. hell, turning out very capable engineers is one of the handful of things that Russia has actually been exceptionally good at (and to the great benefit of everywhere that they have been emigrating to). Basically if Russia had given a gently caress to manage the dam, they absolutely could have. Instead they completely neglected that duty and directly by inaction, negligence, and abject disregard of the people living downstream of the dam they caused one of the worst man made disasters in Europe in decades. Failing to administer a dam like that is a huge loving political scandal and avoiding that is a plausible reason why Russia passed the 'no investigations or legal consequences for anyone who may or may not be responsible' rules package a week before the collapse. I'm averse to making too many comparisons to how things are done in the US, but imagine like the Hoover dam collapsing overnight (not the best comparison, but both are nationally defining pieces of infrastructure that entire regions depend upon) and the way responsibility for that failure would go up the chain of people responsible both for maintenance, monitoring, disaster response, public relations etc. and then through the people responsible for putting those people in charge and so on. Beyond a political scandal and a disaster for all life downstream, it's a huge legitimacy failure for Russia's attempt to assert that it is the legitimate administrator and owner of the territories it claims. Basically you can convince me that a lot of the oddities around Russia's response were a pre-emptive effort to bury a massive failure before it could become a huge scandal. sorry for all the long posts in here lately, I spend too much time reading and talking about this stuff and am apparently bad at brevity Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 00:05
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Don't apologize, long effort posts are in fact good
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Jun 14, 2023 00:21
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Blistex posted:Maybe the dam was just like JFK's head and it did that on its own? next youre gonna tell me you can kill me with two tea bags and some wax paper
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Jun 14, 2023 00:36
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That curve in the road collapsing several days ahead of the dam is a really strong indicator of structural problems. And if the Russians weren't completely clueless, they'd have seen it coming. So yeah, they're culpable, no doubt about it. What's been frustrating to witness is how even the barest fig-leaf of uncertainty has completely dampened any coordinated international response.
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Jun 14, 2023 00:37
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Tuna-Fish posted:The russians pushed the button to blow up the dam, but because of maintenance failures the detonators didn't work. Then, due to other, unrelated maintenance failures, the dam was overtopped by water and broke, at which point the explosives detonated. 
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Jun 14, 2023 09:08
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Did any governments come out saying it was Russia that blew up the dam? The seismic activity registered before and the satellite data makes it seem like it was them for sure, but for some reason is the intelligence not reliable enough to assign the blame? The only explanation I can think of in the realm of possibility that they think it could have been Ukraine so people are holding off until they're sure. And the only reason I can see Ukraine doing that would be to wait for the reservoir to dry up so the river crossing can be skipped and they can advance south skipping most of the fortifications in Zaporozhye.
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Jun 14, 2023 10:57
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Kadyrov's deputy was killed or seriously wounded just outside of Mauripol, presumably while filming a TikTok video. https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f0834349c1d622e
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Jun 14, 2023 11:39
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kadyrov sent a message to ukraine asking pretty plz tell me where you blew up my guys so I can find him lol
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Jun 14, 2023 11:50
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https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1668929160071335938 Looks like it's HIMARS o' clock recently. quote:Russian sources say that the HIMARS strike that led to hundreds of casualties near Kreminna, it took place earlier today. Involved was the 20th Army and its general, Sukhrab "If they die, they die" Akhmedov, known for last year's Vuhledar kamikaze charge. The Delimkhanov incident appears to be completely unrelated: One hell of a way to get blown up, because your commander didn't want you leaving without hearing himself speak and took an extra couple of hours to get his hair just right before showing up.
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Jun 14, 2023 11:56
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This article is extremely visceral. The footage has a lot of dead bodies, but it's worth a read if you can stomach it. The Russian Soldier Who Surrendered to a Ukrainian Drone Trying to survive bombardment in the trenches, draftee Ruslan Anitin pleaded with a drone to spare his life (non-paywalled link) https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-soldier-surrender-ukraine-drone-3860ab6a?st=mpjl4d8illrcneu&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
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Jun 14, 2023 12:52
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psydude posted:This article is extremely visceral. The footage has a lot of dead bodies, but it's worth a read if you can stomach it. It's heartening to know that the Ukrainians aren't growing completely callous towards the Russians over the war, they could have easily just blown this guy up and then gone off to have a beer, but instead they chose to do the hard thing and save him. I don't think everyone could have that sort of heart towards members of a group that had invaded their country and killed their neighbours.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:07
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PurpleXVI posted:It's heartening to know that the Ukrainians aren't growing completely callous towards the Russians over the war, they could have easily just blown this guy up and then gone off to have a beer, but instead they chose to do the hard thing and save him. I don't think everyone could have that sort of heart towards members of a group that had invaded their country and killed their neighbours. Ukrainian soldiers are offered a cash bounty for POWs (as long as they don’t risk their lives in doing so) Dead Russians can’t get captured Ukrainians back in a POW exchange edit: It doesn’t invalidate what you’re saying, but they are encouraged to make that effort Victis fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 13:24
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1668894660922691585?t=TH4zDcU7f6xjZUcRUbJyEA&s=19 Russia has Eurovision at home.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:26
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1668894660922691585?t=TH4zDcU7f6xjZUcRUbJyEA&s=19 I'm not a fashion knower, but I know some ugly rear end poo poo when I see it and that's it right there.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:29
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1668894660922691585?t=TH4zDcU7f6xjZUcRUbJyEA&s=19 lmao, they actually threatened to make an explicitly heterosexual Eurovision of their own back in 2014 when Conchita Wurst won. Conchita's an excellent performer, but knowing that they pissed off Russia just endears them to me even more.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:38
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PurpleXVI posted:Looks like it's HIMARS o' clock recently. Infantry in the open, prox high, open sheaf
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Jun 14, 2023 13:39
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1668894660922691585?t=TH4zDcU7f6xjZUcRUbJyEA&s=19 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervision_Song_Contest Not the first tile USSR has tried to bridge the glitter-gap.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:09
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There's a video circulating from a guy with the mechanized unit that got stuck and then hammered while trying to breach the minefield in western Zhaporizhizhia. He says they only took 5 KIA in the attack (no mention of how many WIA). Which, if true, kind of speaks to the quality of the western systems in keeping their occupants alive.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:17
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PurpleXVI posted:It's heartening to know that the Ukrainians aren't growing completely callous towards the Russians over the war, they could have easily just blown this guy up and then gone off to have a beer, but instead they chose to do the hard thing and save him. I don't think everyone could have that sort of heart towards members of a group that had invaded their country and killed their neighbours. I'd be real careful considering that a safe blanket statement.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:17
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A mass of Russian troops getting exploded because an officer demanded an all hands in a war zone is really something
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Jun 14, 2023 14:21
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1668894660922691585?t=TH4zDcU7f6xjZUcRUbJyEA&s=19 That agriculture dress looks fine, and also as if they found it in a storeroom back from a similar event from the SU. Those "steampunk" pyjamas look like the kind of thing the aliexpress thread orders as prank gifts. They are probably all on there but the other 3 are not even prank gift tier.
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Jun 14, 2023 14:34
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Carth Dookie posted:I'm not a fashion knower, but I know some ugly rear end poo poo when I see it and that's it right there. weak, shoulda ripped off the educational series silver certificates that theme was already perfected 100 years ago
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Jun 14, 2023 14:43
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Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1668894660922691585?t=TH4zDcU7f6xjZUcRUbJyEA&s=19 Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokoshnik
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Jun 14, 2023 16:05
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SHODAN, how far you've fallen...
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Jun 14, 2023 16:40
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psydude posted:There's a video circulating from a guy with the mechanized unit that got stuck and then hammered while trying to breach the minefield in western Zhaporizhizhia. He says they only took 5 KIA in the attack (no mention of how many WIA). Which, if true, kind of speaks to the quality of the western systems in keeping their occupants alive. One of the comments I saw at the time stated that it looked like the blowout panels on the Leopards had done their job but their was speculation about how the crew had fared so that helps clarify that I think. Apparently, a lot of the disabled Leopards were retrieved and repaired in short order as well-- they had been immobilized but not destroyed.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:49
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mercenarynuker posted:SHODAN, how far you've fallen... It looks like something straight out of Vista's music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=989-7xsRLR4
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