(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
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TheCenturion posted:Of course, it's so simple! What a lovely post. I literally gave 4 (5?) examples of former car cities that made the choice to change and you come in with this crap. Because yes, it is in fact simple. Very simple. Proper urban design and planning is not a mystery, multiple of the cities I listed have released in-depth handbooks on how to design properly. They have created advocacy and consulting organizations that any municipality can contact for visits and discussions. They have 50+ years experience of doing this stuff. The only reason our Canadian cities are like they are is because our various levels of government refuse to do it. We redo our roads all the time and just have to add reconfiguration in when we do that instead of rebuilding them the exact same way. Ottawa (and I assume other places) is already doing this somewhat where some roads have been reduced to single lane with cycle tracks when they were due for maintenance.
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Jun 14, 2023 13:37
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Well it's really not so simple. You need to consider the political realities of the situation unique to Canada. Before we can have infrastructure more suitable for pedestrian, cyclist, and transit users, we need to convince the voting public that it is in their best interest to give up their cars so that we can start re-shaping our existing infrastructure. If you think it's an important issue I'd suggest you join some sort of advocacy group to raise awareness and let democracy have it's say. Currently people are happy with the way things are, so you can't really say that it's wrong.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:03
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ZShakespeare posted:Currently people are happy with the way things are, so you can't really say that it's wrong. 
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Jun 14, 2023 16:18
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I've decided not to become a UCP doomer or flee Alberta. Instead, I'm gonna become the kind of smug prick who says "I told you so" everytime health care goes to poo poo. I think it'll come naturally to me.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:36
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Fidelitious posted:The only reason our Canadian cities are like they are is because our Fixed for you. ZShakespeare posted:Well it's really not so simple. You need to consider the political realities of the situation unique to Canada. Before we can have infrastructure more suitable for pedestrian, cyclist, and transit users, we need to convince the voting public that it is in their best interest to give up their cars so that we can start re-shaping our existing infrastructure. If you think it's an important issue I'd suggest you join some sort of advocacy group to raise awareness and let democracy have it's say. Currently people are happy with the way things are, so you can't really say that it's wrong. The place to start is at the local municipal level. They are simultaneously the elections that generate the highest volume of civic interactions on a day to day basis that govern the lives of voters yet ate also the elections with the lowest turnout in Canada at sub 40% engagement. It is also the elections in which the average citizen can actually participate in and win without a massive war chest in funds or go through the brutal process of being nominated by a political party. Also you don't convince people to give up cars. Thats putting the cart in front of the horse. You will fail because the current infrastructure is laid out so you can't live without one (all due respect to the goon who did but no one is willing to live an rear end life style while vehicles still exist and make sense). You start with zoning and density. The rest will fall into place.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:20
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MikeC posted:Also you don't convince people to give up cars. Thats putting the cart in front of the horse. You will fail because the current infrastructure is laid out so you can't live without one (all due respect to the goon who did but no one is willing to live an rear end life style while vehicles still exist and make sense). You start with zoning and density. The rest will fall into place. I completely agree. What I meant was that the only way we can convince people to give up their cars is to give them better alternatives.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:27
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Albino Squirrel posted:I've decided not to become a UCP doomer or flee Alberta. Instead, I'm gonna become the kind of smug prick who says "I told you so" everytime health care goes to poo poo. I think it'll come naturally to me. The problem is that in Manitoba at least, when you have a badly sick relative who waits for three days in hospital in a former staff lounge with five other people, the smugness of being able to say "I told you so" wears off too fast to be fun anymore.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:36
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MikeC posted:You will fail because the current infrastructure is laid out so you can't live without one (all due respect to the goon who did but no one is willing to live an rear end life style while vehicles still exist and make sense). As previously posted, 28% of Toronto households don't have a car (2016) and 17% of Canadians don't either (the commissioner of the study is suspect, but 15% seems reasonable).
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Jun 14, 2023 18:43
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With any luck that number will hit 50% and they'll be able to elect a government that supports their lifestyle.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:53
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Conveniently, you can elect majority governments with around 30% of the vote, so things are looking good!
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Jun 14, 2023 18:55
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There's been a ton more car-free developments going up or getting approved in Victoria. There's massive demand for it, every public hearing has lineups of people coming up to say they don't have a car and would love to buy something that doesn't have the cost of parking forced on them. But every time there's also comments that "no one really can live without a car" and "Oh a car free condo building, I guess they expect people to pay their mortgages without being able to drive to their jobs??" I've always found it funny the contrast between the actual existing car free people living totally fine lives and happily snapping up these units vs the people who act like it's this impossible new idea that will never catch on so the buildings should be illegal. Cars are loving expensive to buy and even more expensive to keep on the road. With housing costs the way they are a lot of people are having to choose between one or the other. In a city like Victoria this is a very real option for a lot of people, specially with the whole ebike revolution. I know a few families with kids who don't have cars, they just have a small fleet of bikes and a big cargo e-bike and they love it. Even the fanciest electric bakfiets costs nothing compared to even a used car.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:08
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I mean telling people they have to live in shoebox condos and learn to code so that they don't have to drive to their jobs isn't exactly a recipe for success. This sort of pie-in-the-sky utopianism is flagrantly unserious.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:11
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The cost to insure a vehicle here in Toronto is usurious. OTOH, I pay $50-$100 a month via Presto for transit across the GTA, this manages to get me to and from job sites in Toronto, Mississauga, Brampton, and occasionally outlying areas.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:14
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Cities like to pretend that they'll expand public transit when people use it more, but it is obvious to anyone who has ever used it in a poorly funded city that it has to be the other way around. They shouldn't let transit executives or city council members own cars imo.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:33
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Adenoid Dan posted:They shouldn't let transit executives or city council members own cars imo. I have been saying this for years.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:35
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The instability of modern employment works against reducing car ownership, unfortunately. Changing employers or an employer moving locations can make it very difficult for someone relying on transit to adapt. This has happened recently to coworkers of mine, after years of working in Toronto their jobs relocated to outside the city and they had to get vehicles. Ironically this happened because a large part of the staff went to WFH and the company disposed of extra office space.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:41
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Fornax Disaster posted:The instability of modern employment works against reducing car ownership, unfortunately. Changing employers or an employer moving locations can make it very difficult for someone relying on transit to adapt. Housing insecurity is a problem as well. You can't move closer to a different job when it would double your rent. It's almost like we created the dumbest loving society we possibly could by ignoring easily solvable problems until they became full blown crises that will involve a massive long term investment to fix and as such no short-term government will ever touch them.
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Jun 14, 2023 20:51
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Adenoid Dan posted:Cities like to pretend that they'll expand public transit when people use it more, but it is obvious to anyone who has ever used it in a poorly funded city that it has to be the other way around. Halifax is a good example of this. Packed busses but no real meaningful expansion of public transit (unless you count some new bus lanes).
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Jun 14, 2023 21:00
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Little aside about cars and jobs but if the job you're hiring for requires that the applicant owns a car, you should, instead, have to provide the car.
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Jun 14, 2023 21:30
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That’s ridiculous. If you can’t afford a car you should get a better job.
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Jun 14, 2023 22:03
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greatBigJerk posted:Halifax is a good example of this. Packed busses but no real meaningful expansion of public transit (unless you count some new bus lanes). Yup! I recently quit a job that was making everyone commute out to the rear end end of Burnside. The city used to have multiple busses out that way but they changed it to just one bus that only comes every hour and is always late. Just a punishing commute. Halifax’s public transit is complete garbage. Halifax overall is a pretty mean spirited city.
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Jun 15, 2023 00:48
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Fidelitious posted:What a lovely post. I literally gave 4 (5?) examples of former car cities that made the choice to change and you come in with this crap. I work in this field and this is accurate. Every year cities are digging up old sewers/water mains. You can put the street back together however you want afterwards and the cost is more or less the same. Similarly, huge amounts of road are being repaved yearly and you can easily change up the line paint while you're at it to narrow/remove lanes, remove parking, add painted bike lanes, etc. In Ottawa most of the bicycle infrastructure these days is implemented "for free" through these regular renewals rather than the capital projects driven by the active transportation planners. You just need to change the policies and have the political will to stand firm when people rage about losing on-street parking.
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Jun 15, 2023 00:54
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Entering this car chat late to add that Winnipeg sucks at everything including transit and building properly, and is currently going to spend a billion dollars on new roads despite having no money. Also the few times the city decides to build things correctly, the province appointed Municipal Board denies development because our province also sucks. So yeah, at least you’re not in Winnipeg.
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Jun 15, 2023 02:29
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Wippersnapper posted:at least you’re not in Winnipeg. My daily affirmation
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Jun 15, 2023 02:37
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OK, but who do people in Winnipeg look down on?
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Jun 15, 2023 04:05
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People in Winnipeg. It's non-Euclidean
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Jun 15, 2023 04:07
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We look down on people in Saskatchewan but I’m not sure it’s valid.
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Jun 15, 2023 04:09
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One Great City https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlsjEP7L-k
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Jun 15, 2023 04:09
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Mad Hamish posted:OK, but who do people in Winnipeg look down on? Pretty much everyone but BC and maybe the maritimes and territories
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Jun 15, 2023 04:19
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That's a really good song.
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Jun 15, 2023 04:22
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Mad Hamish posted:OK, but who do people in Winnipeg look down on?
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Jun 15, 2023 09:23
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Mad Hamish posted:OK, but who do people in Winnipeg look down on? The unfortunate answer is the native population
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Jun 15, 2023 11:44
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Religious nutters keep leaving religious propaganda in my mailbox. Would it be wrong to buy a statue of Baphomet to out outside my house with a sign saying that any further religious propaganda will result in more satanic imagery being put on display? That's how this works, right? You use scarecrows to keep away crows, statues of demons to keep away evangelicals?
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Jun 15, 2023 12:00
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stab posted:The unfortunate answer is the native population As someone who works with indigenous people, yeah. It's this unfortunately.
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Jun 15, 2023 12:05
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i'm not too late to share this classic!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrD-OYuEkyY
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Jun 15, 2023 16:05
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Mad Hamish posted:OK, but who do people in Winnipeg look down on? People from Winnipeg look down on Regina, while rural Manitobans look down on godless Torontonians. Toronto only exists as a concept for them because most of them have a panic attack if there are more than 12 people around them at any given time (except at church), especially if one or more of those 12 people has a slightly different skin tone, so it's not like any of them would ever go there but they've heard that Justin Trudeau might be from there so ... EDIT -- whoever said the local indigenous population is, sadly, right on the money InfiniteZero fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 16:23
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Since switching to a rural postal box I get zero junk mail. No one cares enough to give trailer people anything. Not 1 flyer or coupon in the 9 months I've been here.
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Jun 15, 2023 16:33
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Perspective of Vancouver / its suburbs: I think people raised with cars have a difficulty imagining any other lifestyle despite it being absolutely achievable in much of the MetroVan area. I used to drive, realized budget wise if I moved to the area I kept driving for leisure anyways and tried to get a job there I could get a better apartment in a more desirable are and come out actually spending way less money due to all the costs associated with car maintenance that I no longer have to pay. I’m way healthier, less stressed and I have many friends who have done exactly the same thing. Some own cars just to go camping, most use ride share when they have to move heavy poo poo. And no, I don’t think people like to have cars other than to be able to do road trips. Or at least car drivers will never shut the gently caress up about traffic and commute times. I think the solutions are a combination of what has been said: aggressively density with the right kind of infrastructure and don’t listen to the suburban people who want a say in how your city is built, just because they work downtown. We need to virtually eliminate private vehicles in major cities if we want a chance to get through climate change. So ignore the exurbs they can drive, whatever. Get the majority living in nice dense areas served with public transit and hella bike lanes. Too bad Vancouver’s mayor is a corrupt puppet for developers and also caters to car-addicted losers (who live in a city where the alternatives rock).
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Jun 15, 2023 18:25
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 The local NDP candidate for the Westmount-NDG by-election setting up a campaign office in a defunct lingerie store amuses me because I am 5. NDP: Embrace your curves
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Jun 15, 2023 18:28
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God, this specter of Wab Kinew's past will never be shaken, eh? Just a "dirty indian who can never get better". gently caress this province - rot.
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Jun 15, 2023 20:26
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