(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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HonorableTB posted:ATACMS? 
Red Fructidor fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 23:41
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mobby_6kl posted:The MIC already has a perfect solution for Ukraine's newly acquired Antonov planes actually Once again proving the real war winner is weaponized pallet technology. Russia is doomed.
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Jun 14, 2023 23:59
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HonorableTB posted:lmao that's incredible. The US military industrial complex is simply unparalleled in new, creative ways to reach out and touch someone. we also did this with nukes (the Minuteman iirc), managing a successful air-launch test shoving it out the back of a cargo plane before deciding there wasn't a whole lot of point.
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Jun 15, 2023 00:03
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1669098931186282497 Apparently the vatniks have begun legging it from Polohy.
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Jun 15, 2023 01:04
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Putin sides with military chiefs over placing Wagner under direct control; the Russian leader says move must be made as quickly as possible after Prigozhin refused to sign contracts: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/14/vladimir-putin-sides-with-military-chiefs-placing-wagner-under-direct-control Why Ukraine can punch through a defense line, but Russia can't: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/6/14/2175065/-Quick-Explainer-Why-Ukraine-can-Punch-Through-a-Defense-Line-but-Russia-Couldn-t One week into Ukraine's counteroffensive, Russia is losing far more than Ukraine - Deputy PM: https://english.nv.ua/nation/one-week-into-ukraine-s-counteroffensive-russia-is-losing-far-more-than-ukraine-deputy-dm-50331974.html
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Jun 15, 2023 04:15
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Btw that ammo that was in serious disrepair isn't artillery. They are APFSDS rounds. For your run of the mill MBT. They are sabot rounds for main battle tanks sorry I should clarify the very specific acronym. Russia claims to have lost 54 tanks versus Ukraines bla bla gla. But I wonder how many of those were breaching charge explosions from using this ammo. I mean honorableTB posted a few photos of breach charges... Yeah this can kill or contuse crews. And the level of disrepair this ammo is in means the frequency of failure is probably very very loving high. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 04:32
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Btw that ammo that was in serious disrepair isn't artillery. They are APFSDS rounds. For your run of the mill MBT. Also note that unloading a dud from a tank cannon can be quite an adventure. There's minimal room to do so and you want to be kind of careful not to bang the round against poo poo. Unless there's something obvious wrong with the firing pin or electronic ignition source, there's no way to tell why the round didn't go off while it's still in there. Let's say you touch off the cannon and all it does is go "click". You'll want to wait a little bit to open the breech in case the primer is slow to ignite (a hangfire), as the now uncontained deflagration could burst the case, sending hot flaming gasses into the fighting compartment, through the loader or gunner and onto all the ammo crammed into every space in many tanks. After waiting, you open the breech, hope the extractor/ejector pops the shell out, catch it before it hits something, and send it out the nearest hatch. Until you find time do all that, you are riding around with a live cartridge in the barrel and unable to fight with your main weapon. e: This applies to all firearms, but with lower stakes and the ability to manuever the gun so it's safe for all involved madeintaipei fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 05:16
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madeintaipei posted:Also note that unloading a dud from a tank cannon can be quite an adventure. There's minimal room to do so and you want to be kind of careful not to bang the round against poo poo. Unless there's something obvious wrong with the firing pin or electronic ignition source, there's no way to tell why the round didn't go off while it's still in there. Thank you for putting this into terrifying perspective. Okay so the solution to a dud round it juggle it out of the rucking rank as fast as possible.. Now just for my own education. Are leopards any different from the equation you just laid out other than the dud rate of the ammo is far far far lower than 60 year old sabot rounds
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Jun 15, 2023 05:24
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Double post because I'm not editing that poo poo. Degraded powder can burn slower or faster than it should, causing pressure spikes that the cartridge case, breech, and barrel are not designed for. This could result in a bad kaboom, a projectile stuck in the barrel, and/or hot gasses going where they shouldn't. An off-kilter projectile, if it loads at all, might decide it wants to make a new hole in the barrel. Worn, corroded cartridge cases may burst or crack, sending hot gasses where they shouldn't be. They could also seperate on firing, leaving the head stuck in the opening and the "body" stuck in the chamber. The head could seperate from the rest of the case on extraction/ejection, causing the same problem. This is poo poo you do not want to deal with whether being shot at or not. While being shot at is going to create a sense of urgency, increasing the chances of making a mistake to fix the problem, even for an experienced crew.
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Jun 15, 2023 05:28
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Thank you for putting this into terrifying perspective. As I understand it. If the commander deems it safe, you could keep a dud in the cannon until there comes a good time to deal with it. Once the breech opens, some alacrity in disposing of the dud would be wise. Leopard ammo should be a lot newer, decreasing the chance it's been stored or handled incorrectly. While the Leopard 2 does store ammo in the hull, ready ammunition is better protected and less likely to go off from fire than, say, the seperate ammo of the autoloading T-Series tanks. As to specifics, you could ask in GiP. There are a few Leo 2 crew members there, including one that later crewed the M1 Abrams. Am I right in thinking you were in a line company? Many of the same rules apply to hand held firearms. If the .50 goes down, switch to the 249 or your carbine, find time in cover to bring the bigger gun on line, continue until something breaks again. Rucking rank is a good username.
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Jun 15, 2023 05:37
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All this while the end of the dud isn’t just some jacketed lead but might be high explosive. Also in the Leopard, is it doctrine to use the in body ammo first?
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Jun 15, 2023 05:38
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Thank you for putting this into terrifying perspective. I'm not aware of any tank having a special method that saves the crew from having to manually unfuck the gun's state. anything that does automatically eject brass is expecting spent brass and will not react nicely to brass full of propellant and a warhead. I've only had to deal with something like this with small arms, when I got a bad batch of ammunition. doing so with a 100+mm cartridge instead of <10 is an experience I never want to have. Doesn't The Beast (Of War) have a scene where this happens? I remember it being pretty faithful, and the actors clearly understood the assignment because they seem to be bricking it just as much as I would be in that situation.
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Jun 15, 2023 05:38
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1669038889812516866 appears to have been recovered from the bottom of khakovka reservoir based on the condition
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Jun 15, 2023 05:45
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tiaz posted:I'm not aware of any tank having a special method that saves the crew from having to manually unfuck the gun's state. anything that does automatically eject brass is expecting spent brass and will not react nicely to brass full of propellant and a warhead. I mean, it seems to me that most tanks have redundant systems to fire the main gun. Gunner's trigger, with a manual backup at the cocking lever and the commander's trigger. A manually loaded tank cannon is "semi-automatic" in the artillery sense. That is, upon recoiling, the breech is opened, the spent cartridge is ejected, and the firing mechanism (if mechanical) is reset. "Misfire!", jam the firing switch(es) again, manually cock the gun, jam the switch(es) a couple more times, manually fire at the cocking lever, work from there. In some designs, it's possible to use a string attached to the cocking piece to try and fire the gun from outside the tank. I've read an account from the US Army during WW2 where the commander took it upon himself to unload a misfire with no one else in the tank. I'm not sure if that's specified anywhere, but it's certainly taking responsibility for the failure!
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Jun 15, 2023 05:50
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madeintaipei posted:As I understand it. If the commander deems it safe, you could keep a dud in the cannon until there comes a good time to deal with it. Once the breech opens, some alacrity in disposing of the dud would be wise. Oh yeah that's what I assume same rules apply. I just imagine that Russians dont have that sort of discipline in terms of not immediately trying to get the round out causing marinara based death. Or more spectacular explosions or misfires that end up causing the gun to split turning the crew into thick borscht
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Jun 15, 2023 05:51
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madeintaipei posted:I mean, it seems to me that most tanks have redundant systems to fire the main gun. Gunner's trigger, with a manual backup at the cocking lever and the commander's trigger. A manually loaded tank cannon is "semi-automatic" in the artillery sense. That is, upon recoiling, the breech is opened, the spent cartridge is ejected, and the firing mechanism (if mechanical) is reset. "Misfire!", jam the firing switch(es) again, manually cock the gun, jam the switch(es) a couple more times, manually fire at the cocking lever, work from there. In some designs, it's possible to use a string attached to the cocking piece to try and fire the gun from outside the tank. Oh for sure, I didn't mean to suggest that you pull the trigger once and then decide it's done and dusted, just that once you-the-crew have decided it's definitely a misfire and you can't convince it to go bang there's no automatic (that is to say, pushbutton) ejection of the dud round, that one way or another someone is getting hands on with the thing and getting it out of the crew compartment. I don't know the exact details but I'd bet there's a quick troubleshooting checklist for the non-gunner's-trigger components involved in getting it to fire - check breakers, breech seating, etc. before you decide it's a dud, just because of how much that procedure must obviously suck for everyone involved.
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Jun 15, 2023 06:03
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The Chieftain just dropped a video on the anatomy of a modern 120mm round, with discussions of misfire drill. He's a Lt. Colonel in the US Army reserves who deployed to Iraq once in Abrams and once in Bradleys, so he knows what he's talking about. It's a great channel if you're into tanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJz8cVUvYws
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Jun 15, 2023 06:35
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 A map of decolonized Russia. Each flag was a separate nation, people, culture, language, absorbed into muscovy through imperial conquest based on ethnic Russian superiority
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Jun 15, 2023 06:57
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Neat. I'm thinking that would probably be better. There's probably no nook nooks in there anyway.
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Jun 15, 2023 07:13
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Karate Bastard posted:Neat. I'm thinking that would probably be better. There's probably no nook nooks in there anyway. Or they'll accept money for development in exchange for decommissioning, which hell yeah
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Jun 15, 2023 07:20
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HonorableTB posted:
Most of these would still have a Russian majority. But I guess it would be a nice dream if money from natural resources could be spent locally and not on apartments in Moscow or yachts in Monaco. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 07:27
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When heavy ammunition is stockpiled is it stored 'whole' or do they yank the more delicate components (primer, fuse etc) to reinstall when the stockpile is activated?
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Jun 15, 2023 07:41
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Putin has https://twitter.com/TheKremlinYap/status/1669225074467954695 it has nothing at all to do with casualties among officers edit: map update (no update) https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1669200409070542848 Dwesa fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 09:04
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tiaz posted:Doesn't The Beast (Of War) have a scene where this happens? I remember it being pretty faithful, and the actors clearly understood the assignment because they seem to be bricking it just as much as I would be in that situation. Yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6e3Qv6QrHg Once again worth reiterating that this is a great and sadly often overlooked movie. It's a fairly long scene. The misfire happens around the 1:30 mark. They clear the jam/misfire at around 4:10. madeintaipei posted:I mean, it seems to me that most tanks have redundant systems to fire the main gun. Gunner's trigger, with a manual backup at the cocking lever and the commander's trigger. A manually loaded tank cannon is "semi-automatic" in the artillery sense. That is, upon recoiling, the breech is opened, the spent cartridge is ejected, and the firing mechanism (if mechanical) is reset. "Misfire!", jam the firing switch(es) again, manually cock the gun, jam the switch(es) a couple more times, manually fire at the cocking lever, work from there. In some designs, it's possible to use a string attached to the cocking piece to try and fire the gun from outside the tank. That's basically what happens in the film as well. They try a couple different alternatives before they bail out of the tank.
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Jun 15, 2023 09:12
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HonorableTB posted:
Maps like this (and the whole decolonisation talk that frequently pops out) are beyond stupid because they almost always use USSR administrative borders. Surely nothing bad ever happens when a moron with a pencil decides to show off map partition skills.
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Jun 15, 2023 09:14
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fatherboxx posted:Maps like this (and the whole decolonisation talk that frequently pops out) are beyond stupid because they almost always use USSR administrative borders. You don't have to take these literally as if random twitter people are policy makers. They are also really more something which serves to drive home the fact that the idea that Russia or the Soviet Union are not built on a legacy of colinization and conquest is bunk.
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Jun 15, 2023 09:21
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Randarkman posted:You don't have to take these literally as if random twitter people are policy makers. They are also really more something which serves to drive home the fact that the idea that Russia or the Soviet Union are not built on a legacy of colinization and conquest is bunk. Truly a unique case in world history. What then? There are no significant indendependence movements and no places with those colorful flags can self-sustain, every place that was able to secede already did so in 1991. I get why Ukrainians dream of Russia turning into a warring states balkanized quilt straight out of a HOI4 mod but it is not happening in foreseeable future. (Neither are wet Russian dreams of Tejas coming back home to Mexico or whatever)
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Jun 15, 2023 09:30
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fatherboxx posted:Maps like this (and the whole decolonisation talk that frequently pops out) are beyond stupid because they almost always use USSR administrative borders. Not if you consider these regional disputes as a feature, not a bug
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Jun 15, 2023 09:30
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fatherboxx posted:Truly a unique case in world history. Yes, that's the point I mentioned, (that it can be used) to show that Russia is not a unique case. fatherboxx posted:What then? There are no significant indendependence movements and no places with those colorful flags can self-sustain, every place that was able to secede already did so in 1991. I get why Ukrainians dream of Russia turning into a warring states balkanized quilt straight out of a HOI4 mod but it is not happening in foreseeable future. (Neither are wet Russian dreams of Tejas coming back home to Mexico or whatever) Nothing. It's a picture on twitter. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 09:32
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fatherboxx posted:Maps like this (and the whole decolonisation talk that frequently pops out) are beyond stupid because they almost always use USSR administrative borders. Agreed.
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Jun 15, 2023 09:44
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https://twitter.com/GwarWorin/status/1669244004477685763
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Jun 15, 2023 10:31
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Disco Pope posted:The Russian elite are a sick people who think Fallout 4 was the best one. Which is really funny because Putin met Patriots owner Robert Kraft and stole his Super Bowl ring. https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2020/09/10/robert-kraft-putin-super-bowl-ring/ edit: Putin, a piece of poo poo, stole a Super Bowl ring. Amongst his other shittiness. CannonFodder fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 10:36
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tbf robert kraft also really loving sucks, just not as badly, so it's more like a "root for injury" situation where i wish that both of them had combusted on contact.
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Jun 15, 2023 10:51
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Randarkman posted:You don't have to take these literally as if random twitter people are policy makers. They are also really more something which serves to drive home the fact that the idea that Russia or the Soviet Union are not built on a legacy of colinization and conquest is bunk. Of course the map is beyond ridiculous, but it highlights a point worth emphasising, as a big part of why tankies, as well as some in the third world, unconditionally support Russia - its supposed anti-imperialism. Pointing out that Russia is in fact built upon centuries of brutal conquest, slaughter and oppression of countless indigenous peoples is important. Just because you have fuzzy warm memories of the USSR because it sent your country some AK47s and MiG21s in the 1970s, it does not mean (as many claim) that Russia is some unique special snowflake that is special and 'clean' compared to the West when it comes to having a history of imperialism. Much like the Brits pretend they woke up one day and ended up mysteriously in control of India and Africa, and the Americans gloss over the genocides of Manifest Destiny - Russia does almost exactly the same in whitewashing its history. Its a big part of why unconditional support for Russia should be challenged.
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Jun 15, 2023 11:03
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NoiseAnnoys posted:tbf robert kraft also really loving sucks, just not as badly, so it's more like a "root for injury" situation where i wish that both of them had combusted on contact. No argument here, just pointing out a 
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Jun 15, 2023 11:26
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HonorableTB posted:
Oh heavens me the Olympic parade of nations (best part of the Olympics dont @ me) would take an extra hour
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Jun 15, 2023 11:49
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https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1668600506141356032
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Jun 15, 2023 12:23
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That one place near Vladivostok looks like it's already sponsored by Pepsi so there's a lot of promise for independence.
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Jun 15, 2023 12:30
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Icept posted:That one place near Vladivostok looks like it's already sponsored by Pepsi so there's a lot of promise for independence. A holdover from th soviet fleet they almost acquired, no doubt
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Jun 15, 2023 12:37
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stab posted:Oh heavens me the Olympic parade of nations (best part of the Olympics dont @ me) would take an extra hour Do the freedom of Canada, Spain, and Boba Fett really mean that little to you?
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Jun 15, 2023 13:20
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