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Oh that's awesome looking it up tonight
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Jun 14, 2023 00:20
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Sir Lemming posted:This episode actually aged kind of well, despite the fairly re-hashed "village planet" tropes. At the end, the leader's grand deception is revealed, but the villagers don't really care all that much because she got results. They don't care about their whole society being built on lies and intimidation, they're happy to just let one bad leader get arrested and continue what they were doing. I enjoyed it quite a bit as a change of pace from other DS9 episodes so far. It had more of a classics Trek feel, exploring new worlds and new ways of life, etc. Alixus had to know though that there was no way they would ever stay on the planet. Like let's pretend she did manage to send the runabout into the star, surely it would be actual Starfleet policy at this point to send regular messages with coordinates about their exploration and mission before beaming down the entire crew to an unexplored planet. We've seen way too many away missions go wonky for them to be actually so cavalier about this poo poo. And frankly it should have been against Starfleet policy to send 100% of a ship's crew down to the surface when there's any kind of electronic interference during initial reconnaissance. In other words, tracking down the runabout and doing the lasso technique feel more like they're in the plot to give Kira and Dax something to do rather than them being the most plausible way such a scenario would play out. I hope we see the tractor lasso again because I really like when TV shows remember the things they've established (B5 is loving god-tier at this). If that's still fine - it's just TV and it's entertaining, but part of me does kind of wish the characters weren't always intentionally stupid or careless to make it easier on the writers. I watched "Playing God" afterwards, and I guess I was a bit confused about the predicted scale of the baby universe. It seemed from the dialog that it was expanding and "replacing our own universe" and that that would mean it was going to destroy our universe as we know it eventually, so it needed to be sent into the wormhole where it could expand into an infinite space because of wormhole physics. But apparently not as they just launched it into the Gamma Quadrant and I guess the various wiki articles about the episode make it clearer that the universe only ever posed a threat to DS9, but would otherwise not overtake the universe as we know it. I kind of like my original understanding of the threat better because the stakes are way higher and Sisko has to make the least worst choice among passively letting the universe destroy reality; containing the universe and guaranteeing its destruction; or sending it into the wormhole and possibly causing it to collapse, losing both the wormhole and the new universe. Given that it "just" needed to be launched into the middle of nowhere, it makes Kira's aggressive "kill them all" stance seem a bit excessive.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:00
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Gaz-L posted:That's being at best uncharitable, at worst just straight up making stuff up? I mean, like or hate the new Gorn but I have no idea where you're getting that it's been done to make Arena make sense rather than just that they wanted to do a particular type of story/antagonist and the Gorn fitted. That is the charitable reading. The uncharitable reading is that they looked at an episode about how the 'savages' on the frontier are actually sapient beings with their own valid point of view who can be negotiated with, and decided "No, wouldn't it be cooler if they actually were monsters to be exterminated? Nits make lice!"
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Jun 14, 2023 04:36
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I've been watching DS9 for the first time. I started around the time Picard was wrapping because I figured it would be better to know what these Changelings actually are. It's been a slow going process, and I got to the end of season 2 today. Well, let's say I wasn't expecting The Jem'Hadar and The Search to go so hard   to the Odyssey
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Jun 14, 2023 07:02
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Remember that aired just a couple months after the final episode of TNG, when we were still all in peak mourning for the show. That was and remains one of the biggest oh poo poo moments in Trek.
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Jun 14, 2023 08:10
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Angry Salami posted:That is the charitable reading. The uncharitable reading is that they looked at an episode about how the 'savages' on the frontier are actually sapient beings with their own valid point of view who can be negotiated with, and decided "No, wouldn't it be cooler if they actually were monsters to be exterminated? Nits make lice!" Believe it or not, they actually thought they were doing TOS and the Gorn a favor: Wikipedia posted:The writers discussed ways to incorporate the Gorn without contradicting the fact that the characters in "Arena", which is set around seven years after the events of this season, have not seen the species before. Perez explained that their goal for the series was to not "undo people's experience with The Original Series, but if we can manage it, perhaps to give us an interesting perspective to consider that lines up with the original stories".[24] Specifically discussing the line "I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn" spoken by William Shatner's James T. Kirk in "Arena", Perez explained that "maybe Kirk has never seen them, he could even be one of those people who still doubts the stories, or maybe even he has seen them and they don't look the same".[25] Some of the ways that the series attempts to maintain continuity include featuring the Gorn in the backstory of La'an Noonien-Singh, a character who does not appear in The Original Series; not actually showing them in "Memento Mori" when Gorn starships are seen;[24] and only showing baby Gorn in "All Those Who Wander".[25] Apparently the implications of the Gorn reproductive cycle never crossed their minds.
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Jun 14, 2023 09:21
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Steve made a followup to his Starfleet Lawyer video, about another underappreciated job: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQfAkq76kZY
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Jun 14, 2023 18:24
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With the discussion of Alexander Siddig's other roles it reminded me of another funny but unrelated thing - the guy that plays Hank in Breaking Bad also played the CEO villain in Lawnmower Man. I just find that funny. The one who appears on the TV screen in the meeting room.
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Jun 14, 2023 22:24
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Chekhov with the ice burn here https://twitter.com/GineokwKoenig/status/1669064468209479681?s=20 Edit: Oh, apparently there has been twitter drama about Shatner being bad on Boston legal and this is a legitimate defense of his acting skills. I thought the joke was the omission of star trek meaning that he thought Shatner was bad in trek. Jumped the gun! T.C. fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 22:49
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drat, Walter.
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Jun 14, 2023 22:49
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Ah yes the official Twitter account of... GineokwKoenig? Is he just really old and his Twitter handle reflects that?
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Jun 14, 2023 23:03
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That's just his Twitter, as far as I know. Not quite as smooth as Tim Russ' @timruss2 or the clearly less on the ball @robertbeltran74
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Jun 14, 2023 23:17
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BioEnchanted posted:With the discussion of Alexander Siddig's other roles it reminded me of another funny but unrelated thing - the guy that plays Hank in Breaking Bad also played the CEO villain in Lawnmower Man. I just find that funny. The one who appears on the TV screen in the meeting room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z6KEJ0bJLU
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Jun 14, 2023 23:29
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Blood Oath was great. Excellent Klingon centric episode. Profit and Loss I'm a bit cooler on and only because a key part of the plot hinges on Odo being able to do whatever he wants in Security. Sisko ordered those Cardassians arrested and he then unilaterally decides to free them. He's violating an order and acting as a rogue agent. It gives the impression that DS9 has no rule of law and that the Federation can't actually be trusted to keep their word, especially if Odo isn't meaningfully reprimanded. He's not removed as Head of Security for deciding the Cardassians should be released for instance. It's a shame because otherwise the episode is quite good. Quark's performance is wonderful, Garak is a delight, the intrigue is engaging, and they utilize the cloaking device mentioned early in the episode well. I can imagine any number of ways that Sisko and Odo explained to the Cardassians how the prisoners escaped, but almost all of them involve putting a target on Quark and despite Sisko and Odo not liking Quark, it would be against their ethics to use him as a fall guy. Anyway, it's just another complaint that largely stems from the show needing to resolve most of its conflicts in 45 minutes. It's not a dealbreaker, but it stands out.
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Jun 15, 2023 01:11
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Knormal posted:Remember that aired just a couple months after the final episode of TNG, when we were still all in peak mourning for the show. That was and remains one of the biggest oh poo poo moments in Trek. I always wondered if the main reason Berman didn't okay the Intrepid and Sovereign for DS9 action scenes was the reaction to the destruction of Odyssey, which was apparently pretty negative. Then again it was Berman so it could easily just have been a dumber reason.
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Jun 15, 2023 02:04
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It's kind of amazing how we've gone from "don't show them the thing they'll remember it will confuse them" to "show them the things they remember to the exclusion of all else"
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Jun 15, 2023 02:12
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Atlas Hugged posted:Blood Oath was great. Excellent Klingon centric episode. To be fair, Odo doesn't work for Starfleet, he works for the Bajoran government.
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Jun 15, 2023 02:35
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T.C. posted:Chekhov with the ice burn here Bester's still got it.
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Jun 15, 2023 02:54
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T.C. posted:Chekhov with the ice burn here He was also the response for the Final Jeopardy clue tonight, and nobody got it.
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Jun 15, 2023 03:02
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My mom used to watch Boston Legal and Shatner was delightful in what I saw of it. Also seemed like half the cast was from Trek.
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Jun 15, 2023 03:18
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bennyfactor posted:He was also the response for the Final Jeopardy clue tonight, and nobody got it. couldn't believe this honestly
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Jun 15, 2023 03:52
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Grand Fromage posted:My mom used to watch Boston Legal and Shatner was delightful in what I saw of it. Also seemed like half the cast was from Trek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo2b3WUUQ-o
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Jun 15, 2023 04:12
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i never really watched boston legal when it was on the air, were those jump cuts and weird pans in the original? good lord that's distracting
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Jun 15, 2023 04:21
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Gaz-L posted:To be fair, Odo doesn't work for Starfleet, he works for the Bajoran government. And it was the Bajoran government who brokered the release of the Bajoran prisoners in exchange for the Cardassians. Now, this does tie into the end of season 1 where it was made clear that Cardassia is not supposed to have any more prisoners of war at all, but I don't think the Bajoran prisoners were ever called "POWs". They could have been held on criminal charges against Cardassia. The episode never actually makes it explicit if the prisoners were released or not, just that there was a 5 hour window for their arrival on DS9, presumably to swap them for the Cardassian prisoners. Odo releasing the Cardassian prisoners may have endangered the release of the Bajorans. If the Bajorans were released in good faith before they knew that the Cardassians had been aided in an escape, this threatens relations between Bajor and Cardassia even further. Cardassia would almost certainly put pressure on the Federation, who officially administer the station, to do something, be it removing Odo or putting some kind of sanction on Bajor for the obvious deception. Basically, it just feels like the episode left way too much of it open and unexplained. Were the prisoners freed or not? How was Cardassia fooled into thinking Odo didn't release the Cardassian prisoners? Does Cardassia protest to the Federation over both the missing prisoners and the Gul that has seemingly vanished into thin air? Is Cardassia culturally the kind of place where the dead Gul will take 100% of the blame because the operation fell apart under his command? Like, the simplest way to have closed those loopholes would be to have had some line about how Guls operate with a high degree of autonomy and then to have given the Gul a line of dialog about how he was only instructed to bring back the two, but for his own status he wanted to bring in all three, and then Garak can report back that an incident occurred as a result of the Gul's greed and all three were escaped and the Gul killed in the struggle, safely scapegoating the Gul and protecting Odo, Quark, Sisko, and Bajor. Or they could have gone the route they did with Gul Dukat kidnapping his rival's son where it couldn't be revealed publicly for some reason and so no one outside of the military government on Cardassia is aware that any of these events happened and Cardassia doesn't want to embarrass itself further by demanding an investigation or reparations. Again, I can imagine these things, but they're not in the show. Maybe TNG talks more about how Guls operate within the Cardassian political framework, but DS9 does not.
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Jun 15, 2023 04:34
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Grand Fromage posted:My mom used to watch Boston Legal and Shatner was delightful in what I saw of it. Also seemed like half the cast was from Trek. They also did a lot of Star Trek jokes too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZGj8JyBiNo
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Jun 15, 2023 04:49
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HAIR pasta? really neelix?! https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Alfarian_hair_pasta
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Jun 15, 2023 05:04
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Beeftweeter posted:i never really watched boston legal when it was on the air, were those jump cuts and weird pans in the original? good lord that's distracting I'd forgotten how wildly the shooting and editing was in that show, but yeah it was. I don't think the camera was ever still for the entirety of the show. editing that show must of been a nightmare. Or maybe super easy, as like could anyone actually say you screw up? Spend most of an important dialogue scene on jittery cut-away shots of random objects in the room. Sure, why not!
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Jun 15, 2023 05:15
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Atlas Hugged posted:And it was the Bajoran government who brokered the release of the Bajoran prisoners in exchange for the Cardassians. Odo is a shapeshifter and the cardassian government will believe any story they hear from their trusted officers, they are very gulible
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Jun 15, 2023 16:40
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Beeftweeter posted:i never really watched boston legal when it was on the air, were those jump cuts and weird pans in the original? good lord that's distracting That obnoxious faux-documentary handheld style was in vogue at the time, you can thank NYPD Blue and 24 for that.
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Jun 15, 2023 17:13
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Agnosticnixie posted:I always wondered if the main reason Berman didn't okay the Intrepid and Sovereign for DS9 action scenes was the reaction to the destruction of Odyssey, which was apparently pretty negative. Then again it was Berman so it could easily just have been a dumber reason.
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Jun 15, 2023 17:22
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McSpanky posted:That obnoxious faux-documentary handheld style was in vogue at the time, you can thank NYPD Blue and 24 for that. Homicide: Life on the Street, too.
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Jun 15, 2023 18:22
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Timby posted:Homicide: Life on the Street, too. That "So you've been arrested for murder" scene is bad rear end
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Jun 15, 2023 18:25
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zoux posted:That "So you've been arrested for murder" scene is bad rear end Three Men And Adena is one of the most harrowing hours of TV you'll ever watch.
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Jun 15, 2023 18:32
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The main reason DS9 is so good is that is was made at the same time as Voyager and Rick Berman was focused on that show instead
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Jun 15, 2023 19:06
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It helped but I would also like to credit the showrunners, writers, directors, cast, and crew.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:26
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Beeftweeter posted:i never really watched boston legal when it was on the air, were those jump cuts and weird pans in the original? good lord that's distracting That was my only thought, I could barely pay attention to the scene. It seems like there’s a cut every second, and it’s incredibly frustrating to watch.
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Jun 15, 2023 20:47
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All I remember from Boston Legal is how horribly mysogistic it was with it's very boomer views on women and all the Star Trek people running around in it.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:08
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Beeftweeter posted:i never really watched boston legal when it was on the air, were those jump cuts and weird pans in the original? good lord that's distracting It was a spin off for Ally McBeal, a lawyer dramady with cutaway jokes, first Internet memes and fast cuts. If I remember correctly, Boston Legal was if nothing else a toned down and a bit more serious version of the format.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:09
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Der Kyhe posted:It was a spin off for Ally McBeal, a lawyer dramady with cutaway jokes, first Internet memes and fast cuts. If I remember correctly, Boston Legal was if nothing else a toned down version of the format. The Practice. Though they were both David E Kelly shows and they did some crossovers with Ally McBeal. Of course I think the best of all of them is Boston Legal: Deep Space Nine but longtime fans balked at the more serialzed and grounded storylines.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:09
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zoux posted:The Practice. I have to confess, I had absolutely no recollection that The Practice and Ally McBeal were in fact two different shows.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:12
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