The US will lose WW3

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razorscooter: Nov 5, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/gmanews/status/1668548764649373698

helicopters: not even once

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:39

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 12:33

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

razorscooter posted:

helicopters: not even once

unless ur a billionaire

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:39

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

I like how there's boots on the ground in Syria and has been for years and it's all very hush hush in the media. Special military operation, not a war. :allears:

Stairmaster posted:

Bro the fireball is hotter than the surface of the sun you don't need to worry about the container smothering the explosion

Containing this or any other explosive in a pressure vessel makes them work better.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:43

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

Centrist Committee posted:

the nations of projectionistan, projectionzuela, projectionea, projectiono, and projectionia are a constant menace to peace loving americans everywhere

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:45

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

skooma512 posted:

I like how there's boots on the ground in Syria and has been for years and it's all very hush hush in the media. Special military operation, not a war.

It's not that hush hush. Mark Milley's fairly recent trip made it into most of the big rags for instance. It's just not super eventful and of course there's no challenge to the idea that they're there to fight isis.

# ? Jun 14, 2023 00:42

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Weka posted:

It's not that hush hush. Mark Milley's fairly recent trip made it into most of the big rags for instance. It's just not super eventful and of course there's no challenge to the idea that they're there to fight isis.

why would they fight themselves

# ? Jun 14, 2023 02:22

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

skooma512 posted:

I like how there's boots on the ground in COUNTRY REDACTED and has been for years

Special military operation, not a war.

donating to the brave freedom fighters opposing the imperialist invasion in the so called �special military operation.� Yeah maybe these units have some complicated history but we stand united. glory to the heroes.

# ? Jun 14, 2023 03:23

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Best Friends posted:

donating to the brave freedom fighters opposing the imperialist invasion in the so called �special military operation.� Yeah maybe these units have some complicated history but we stand united. glory to the heroes.

iraq, afghanistan, libya and syria have no sovereignty, actually

# ? Jun 14, 2023 10:42

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Palladium posted:

why would they fight themselves

Turns out it's a great deal more efficient and you almost never lose.

# ? Jun 14, 2023 11:03

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Latest F-35s Will Go Directly Into Storage Until Upgrade Woes Ironed Out

quote:

by Thomas Newdick
PUBLISHED Jun 13, 2023 2:42 PM EDT

The Pentagon�s latest plan for the F-35 stealth fighter includes putting a stop on deliveries this summer while it holds out for production jets with the required Technology Refresh 3, or TR-3 hardware to support a range of future improvements.

...

The much-delayed TR-3 upgrade is critical to supporting the Block 4 modernization for the Joint Strike Fighter. However, it seems that past woes with concurrency � the combined development and production process in which F-35s are manufactured before all features have been completely tested or vetted � are driving this approach. It remains to be seen what kind of impact it could have on the timeline for the stealth jet, which is the Department of Defense�s most expensive weapon system ever.

Next month, the Pentagon plans to stop accepting some newly built F-35s as they come off the production line at Lockheed Martin�s Fort Worth facility in Texas, in a development first reported by Breaking Defense. The reason given is the immaturity of the TR-3 hardware. Instead of being delivered to their units, �dozens� of the jets will be stored, temporarily, at Fort Worth. It could take until spring 2024 before issues with TR-3 are ironed out and the jets can finally be handed over.

The first production jets with TR-3 began to take shape in February and these airframes are expected to be completed before the end of July.

...

�Starting later this summer, F-35 aircraft coming off the production line with TR-3 hardware will not be accepted until relevant combat capability is validated in accordance with our users� expectations,� JPO spokesman Russ Goemaere said. �The JPO and Lockheed Martin will ensure these aircraft are safely and securely stored until [acceptance] occurs.�

While TR-3-equipped F-35s will go into temporary storage, those with the previous TR-2 hardware will continue to be delivered as normal.

...

Defense News reports that Lockheed says it�s too early to say how many F-35s might have to be stored, and the company didn�t comment on the original plan for TR-3 production numbers this year. In total, however, including TR-2 and TR-3 configurations, Lockheed was planning to deliver around 150 F-35s in 2023.

Lockheed on Monday said that it has so far delivered more than 45 F-35s this year, with about 50 more TR-2 F-35s now under construction.

As we have discussed in the past, TR-3 is intended to significantly enhance the F-35�s core processor, memory unit, and associated avionics. With these changes, the jet will be better able to support the multiple new capabilities planned under the upcoming Block 4 modernization program, which will include a brand-new radar. The first F-35 with TR-3 upgrades installed � a specially instrumented flight test aircraft � took to the air for its maiden flight on January 6 this year, at Edwards Air Force Base, California.

TR-3 was already delayed, having been planned to be delivered starting in April this year. Under current plans, the U.S. military will only start to receive new F-35s with TR-3 once all development testing is completed.

Once TR-3 is proven, then the F-35 will be ready to undergo Block 4 modernization. Among others, Block 4 will allow the jets to carry a larger variety of precision weapons, will greatly enhance its electronic warfare capability, and provide better target recognition.

In the best-case scenario, TR-3 could be declared ready in December of this year, although it could take until April 2024 � 12 months later than previously expected.

Last year, the Government Accountability Office reported that challenges in the development of TR-3 increased the cost of the overall Block 4 modernization effort by $330 million in 2021 and contributed to program delays. In its announcement of the first flight test sortie with TR-3 in January, the JPO said, �The TR-3 program has overcome technical complexity challenges with hardware and software and is now on track to deliver capability.�

Earlier this year, F-35 program executive officer Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt told the House Armed Services subcommittee on tactical air and land forces that the development of TR-3�s hardware was lagging behind, with a knock-on effect on the production schedule. Although Lt. Gen. Schmidt said there had been improvements made, including to reliability, software integration remained a problem.

While a pause on F-35 deliveries may make sense in the long run, in terms of the Pentagon receiving jets that have �relevant combat capability,� it hardly comes as good news for a program that has already seen two production stops in the space of a year.

Last September, F-35 deliveries were placed on hold after officials learned that a component contained materials produced by China... The component, a magnet used in F-35 turbomachine pumps, �does not transmit information or harm the integrity of the aircraft and there are no performance, quality, safety, or security risks associated with this issue,� the JPO said in a statement at the time. After a security review, deliveries resumed in October.

Then, last December, deliveries came to a halt after pre-delivery acceptance flights were paused. This was in response to a December 15 accident at Fort Worth involving a pre-delivery F-35B, later found to be the result of an engine vibration problem. Deliveries resumed again after a fix was introduced.

Now, as it stands, it�s unclear how many F-35s will be affected by the latest pause in deliveries. In the best-case scenario, based on Lockheed�s estimation that TR-3 testing could be complete in December this year, that will leave a portion of the jets in storage for at least around five months.

In the more pessimistic scenario, based on the JPO�s expectation that TR-3 might not be ready until next April, then some of the stealth jets will be stored for around nine months.

Either way, it�s a a major setback based on the previous plans of having TR-3-equipped jets delivered to the customer in April 2023.

There could also be further setbacks head.

In March this year, senior U.S. military officials discussed the F135 engine�s limitations while outlining a plan to pursue an Engine Core Upgrade (ECU) effort before members of a subcommittee of the House Armed Services Committee.

The U.S. military sees planned engine upgrades for all the variants of the F-35 as critical since the Pratt & Whitney F135 turbofans that power all of the aircraft have been �under spec since the beginning,� according to the JPO. This means the engines are routinely operated at higher-than-expected temperatures, leading to an increased maintenance and logistics burden, and reducing the F-35�s overall readiness rates.

The Engine Core Upgrade is of particular relevance for TR-3 and Block 4, as well. Both these efforts demand additional electrical power and have increased cooling needs, something that the ECU is intended to address via its power and thermal management system (PTMS) improvements.

In a report last month on the F-35�s cost growth and engine modernization, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) stated that �The program assessed some engine and cooling improvement options, but it has not fully defined the requirements for how much future cooling the aircraft will need.� The report added that the Pentagon �hasn�t taken some important steps, such as fully assessing the costs and technical risks of the different [engine and cooling system] options.�

The GAO recommended that �Congress should consider directing the F-35 program to manage the engine modernization as a separate program. GAO added this matter for Congress because [the Department of Defense] has not committed to a separate engine program consistent with GAO�s recommendation.�

Most recently, it emerged that the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps may all end up choosing different cooling upgrades for their F-35s after a plan emerged under which they would draft their own requirements. That would inevitably drive up costs and likely increase the potential for further delays.

So, while the status of the Engine Core Upgrade is critical for the F-35 in general, delays with it could have a very significant impact on the already delayed TR-3 program, as well as the Block 4 modernization that, in turn, relies upon it.

Ultimately, ensuring the F-35 has an engine that fulfills performance parameters, especially when demands for electronic power and cooling are growing, could even end up being a bigger issue than the latest delivery pause, due to come into effect this summer.

# ? Jun 14, 2023 15:00

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

gradenko_2000 posted:

Latest F-35s Will Go Directly Into Storage Until Upgrade Woes Ironed Out

stealth TR3s?? :eyepop:

# ? Jun 14, 2023 15:21

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

So the F-35s Canada and Germany bought, are those going to be ready upon delivery?

# ? Jun 14, 2023 15:39

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Frosted Flake posted:

So the F-35s Canada and Germany bought, are those going to be ready upon delivery?

bold of you to assume they will ever be ready

# ? Jun 14, 2023 15:44

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

Latest F-35s Will Go Directly Into Storage Until Upgrade Woes Ironed Out

incredible

# ? Jun 14, 2023 15:48

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

What a beautiful grift

# ? Jun 14, 2023 18:23

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

colonel: I�m afraid the gear is just scrap metal

snake: metal gear??

# ? Jun 14, 2023 18:54

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Best Friends posted:

colonel: I�m afraid the gear is just scrap metal

snake: metal gear??

Metal Gear Not Solid

# ? Jun 14, 2023 18:58

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

metal gear solid: grifts of the patriots

# ? Jun 14, 2023 20:09

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Frosted Flake posted:

So the F-35s Canada and Germany bought, are those going to be ready upon delivery?

Simply send them to the ostfront when getting shot down is winning actually

# ? Jun 15, 2023 01:49

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Nobody wants to see it but in a real war we're going to have to watch some of our faves crash and burn

# ? Jun 15, 2023 02:08

The Atomic Man-Boy: Jul 23, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/gmanews/status/1668548764649373698

Pretty sure when troops die in a part of the world they�re technically not supposed to be, they just blame it on helicopters.

In addition to the poo poo load that die from helicopters anyways.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 02:21

Isentropy: Dec 12, 2010

Slavvy posted:

Nobody wants to see it but in a real war we're going to have to watch some of our faves crash and burn

some of our faves may be detonated

# ? Jun 15, 2023 21:48

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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The Atomic Man-Boy posted:

Pretty sure when troops die in a part of the world they�re technically not supposed to be, they just blame it on helicopters.

In addition to the poo poo load that die from helicopters anyways.

im not a coward, but

# ? Jun 16, 2023 01:30

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Slavvy posted:

Nobody wants to see it but in a real war we're going to have to watch some of our faves crash and burn

But I've been loudly assured for 32 years that the A-10 is impervious to all ground fire and would eat Russian armored division in one pass

# ? Jun 16, 2023 06:45

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

Reading that politico article from a while back had me thinking, how effective is the American nuclear trinity still anyway? I remember back in the oughts there was some chatter that America's silos were falling apart and relied on ancient, outdated technology so they pledged billions to update it, but I could see that being pure grift that never got out of the planning stages. What planes can even deliver nukes anymore? Presumably the subs are still fine when they aren't crashing into poo poo.

Not that nuclear weapons need to work to accomplish their primary function, but there's hope that the world could be saved from an American freak out over losing a war when it turned out their 50-year-old silos don't actually work anymore.

# ? Jun 16, 2023 23:48

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

The F-16 is capable of carrying nukes and IIRC the -22 as well. There's even a little switch for it in the 16 that you can see in consumer simulators, not operable obviously.

# ? Jun 16, 2023 23:51

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

I wouldn�t bet against it, even if there is a pre-emptive attack and some silos didn�t work, no one wants to get hit with �only a few hundred warheads.� It is the same for the Russians versus the US as well.

The bombers were supposed to allow a pause in negotiations so both sides could talk before the bombers made it but to be honest even that idea is pretty obsolete at this point.

That said, both Russia and the US are using their strategic bombers for an array of other purposes anyway.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 00:36 on Jun 17, 2023

# ? Jun 16, 2023 23:56

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

I'm pretty sure the biggest nuclear secret every country has is an accurate count of how many of their alleged missiles still work

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:31

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Clark Nova posted:

I'm pretty sure the biggest nuclear secret every country has is an accurate count of how many of their alleged missiles still work

lmao neoliberalism demolishing MAD not because of peace but because of delayed maintenance

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:33

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Over half the us's nukes are on subs anyway, which is plenty to destroy the whole world. I assume they're always loitering around the perimeter of eurasia ready to kill a few billion people on a moment's notice. There's 14 us ohio subs with 20 slbms sporting 12 warheads a piece. Full arsenal would be 3360 warheads and even if you assume only a third of that is ready to go at any given time everyone's hosed

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:40

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

FuzzySlippers posted:

Reading that politico article from a while back had me thinking, how effective is the American nuclear trinity still anyway? I remember back in the oughts there was some chatter that America's silos were falling apart and relied on ancient, outdated technology so they pledged billions to update it, but I could see that being pure grift that never got out of the planning stages. What planes can even deliver nukes anymore? Presumably the subs are still fine when they aren't crashing into poo poo.

Not that nuclear weapons need to work to accomplish their primary function, but there's hope that the world could be saved from an American freak out over losing a war when it turned out their 50-year-old silos don't actually work anymore.

There's just too many, even if 50% don't work the world still ends.

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:42

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Maybe thats how the human race will survive, nuke exchange happen and 60% of them are duds.

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:48

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

I don't think even full scale samson option style nuclear war where everyone brings in all the nukes for a biiiiig party would completely kill all humans. Is someone gonna nuke the azores or drc or the bahamas? Probably not

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:54

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

farnhams freehold will come true after nuclear war

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:56

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

stephenthinkpad posted:

Maybe thats how the human race will survive, nuke exchange happen and 60% of them are duds.

Humanity probably would survive but global trade doesn't so fuel and power is gone. Not sure how long it would take the survivors to get things going again while also dealing with things like infections with no access to antibiotics

Access to renewables changes things somewhat but you'd still need some way to maintain them

# ? Jun 17, 2023 00:59

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Global thermonuclear war would probably shake out as a net positive for the biosphere in the long run. Unless nuclear winter turns out to be real.

# ? Jun 17, 2023 01:15

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Seeing news that Russia has placed nukes in Belarus.

But then... so what? This is already a power with ICBM and SSBNs. Moving some a couple hundred miles west can't possibly a bigger threat than that. Like, it seems like a poor man's brinkmanship, giving the appearance of upping the ante but in practice not adding any more actual capability.

Plus what are they gonna do, nuke Ukraine? The winds will blow fallout right back in their face.

# ? Jun 17, 2023 02:41

yellowcar: Feb 14, 2010

it's in part a response to the west sending ukraine depleted uranium shells

# ? Jun 17, 2023 02:58

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

skooma512 posted:

Seeing news that Russia has placed nukes in Belarus.

But then... so what? This is already a power with ICBM and SSBNs. Moving some a couple hundred miles west can't possibly a bigger threat than that. Like, it seems like a poor man's brinkmanship, giving the appearance of upping the ante but in practice not adding any more actual capability.

Plus what are they gonna do, nuke Ukraine? The winds will blow fallout right back in their face.

It has the effect of tying Belarus closer to Russia more than anything.

# ? Jun 17, 2023 03:29

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 12:33

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Regarde Aduck posted:

Humanity probably would survive but global trade doesn't so fuel and power is gone. Not sure how long it would take the survivors to get things going again while also dealing with things like infections with no access to antibiotics

Access to renewables changes things somewhat but you'd still need some way to maintain them

Thanks to deindustrialization Europe and America have effectively made themselves unable to rebuild following a nuclear exchange

# ? Jun 17, 2023 07:18

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