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Yeah, for trials make sure your tank stance isn't on when you get in and usually the other tank will take MT duties. And if you want to practice tanking without other people you can always use trusts to get your confidence up and teach you the dungeons. But seriously, trial tanking is barely one step above being blue dps anyways as long as you keep a defensive cooldown up for tankbusters and keep the boss pointed away from the raid. Healing is the truly difficult role that can wipe the party if you gently caress up in my experience.
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Jun 16, 2023 13:42
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Yeah, the only time tanking can be tricky is in the earlier dungeons before the "two packs then wall" design philosophy became entrenched. Even then, as long as you're pulling at least two packs at a time, most people won't cause problems. This video is pretty shitpost-y, but its also a pretty succinct guide to everything that matters about tanking.
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Jun 16, 2023 13:51
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Feldegast42 posted:But seriously, trial tanking is barely one step above being blue dps anyways as long as you keep a defensive cooldown up for tankbusters and keep the boss pointed away from the raid. Healing is the truly difficult role that can wipe the party if you gently caress up in my experience. Agreed. If you miss a mechanic thats an instagib (Ascian Prime's fire and ice combo comes to mind) then not only are you gone but theres a high chance that's basically the ball game for the entire party.
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Jun 16, 2023 14:06
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ConanThe3rd posted:Agreed. If you miss a mechanic thats an instagib (Ascian Prime's fire and ice combo comes to mind) then not only are you gone but theres a high chance that's basically the ball game for the entire party. gently caress that mechanic, post-rework i found out the hard way as the healer that some combo of my framerate/connection is just bad enough that I cannot move out of it reliably. It is the worst goddamn feeling to know exactly what you need to do, eat poo poo due to factors outside your control anyway, and then having that make everyone else die. We ended up only clearing bc there was a loop where we kept seeing the survivable form. And I like healing, once the low-level doldrums are escaped.
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Jun 16, 2023 14:38
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Szarrukin posted:Why so many cool jobs must be tanks? I would love to embrace angst of being Dark Knight, but tanxiety is too strong. tanxiety is cured through instance repetition, reading a guide on thebalanceffxiv.com, looking up any mechanics you don't get after 2-3 goes, and just shutting off the part of your brain that feels shame. if you're really nervous, set a macro that apologies in advance when you're running something you're unfamiliar with. that takes the load off of me, for whatever reason. as a healer main, i've only leveled tanks to 70, but i've found DRK the most intuitive tank to use, FWIW.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:52
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I honestly feel like Tankxiety is worst at lower levels, because the inevitable "I NEED TO FINISH THIS 20 MINUTE DUNGEON IN FIVE MINUTES GOGOGOGOGOGOGO" assholes are pushing you to pull way more than you're comfortable with, at a level range where you have next to none of your survivability buttons, in dungeons that are not balanced around multi-pack pulls. Later on, if people are bugging you to pullpulllpullgogogo, at least by then you've got some amount of experience under your belt and have extra buttons you can use to die a little slower. On the plus side, at low levels, you have the option of telling people that you are still new to tanking, and do not wish to go five thousand miles per hour. To the people who answer "I hate when DPS pull" with "THEN BE FASTER", gently caress off. The reason I don't like them pulling is because I pull at the speed I'm comfortable with. Going faster than I'm comfortable with is not the solution to Tankxiety, it is what causes it. As an aside, my favorite tank class so far probably has to be Gunbreaker. It's fun, and has some decent mitigation options.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:52
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BlazetheInferno posted:To the people who answer "I hate when DPS pull" with "THEN BE FASTER", gently caress off. These people are the worst and should be mocked mercilessly.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:57
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Like Clockwork posted:gently caress that mechanic, post-rework i found out the hard way as the healer that some combo of my framerate/connection is just bad enough that I cannot move out of it reliably. It is the worst goddamn feeling to know exactly what you need to do, eat poo poo due to factors outside your control anyway, and then having that make everyone else die. We ended up only clearing bc there was a loop where we kept seeing the survivable form. I love the rework but in your case just make sure you're in the single ice/fire aoe rather than the double fire and you'll live with a vuln. It's botching the mech and eating double fire that kills (or super botching it and eating ice AND double fire) GloomMouse fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 16:17
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If a DPS pulls for you, even if you don't like it, I would be very, very careful about descending into any sort of "you pull, you tank" mentality. Letting people die is reportable, so I would be very careful about getting into slapfights with people that pull extra, even if they are assholes. Personally I don't mind DPS pulling for me (DPS taking non-lethal damage is extra mitigation!), but I have quite a bit of experience tanking, and I never pull extra for tanks even if they are slow/single pulling.
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Jun 16, 2023 16:37
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"Sorry, I'm new to tanking!" as I watch the neon red marker of justice herald death finding the deserving.
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Jun 16, 2023 16:39
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dps pulling is extra addersting for sage 😎
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Jun 16, 2023 16:41
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BlazetheInferno posted:To the people who answer "I hate when DPS pull" with "THEN BE FASTER", gently caress off. The reason I don't like them pulling is because I pull at the speed I'm comfortable with. Going faster than I'm comfortable with is not the solution to Tankxiety, it is what causes it. In the wonky early dungeons this is more of a thing sure but just like low level play is a place to learn good habits, it's also a place to learn bad ones. Tankxiety stems from feeling like everyone is watching you fail, but tanks also contract acute Main Character Syndrome for the same reason. If your healer is pulling or seems to be fine with the dps doing so, then maybe this is an opportunity to explore outside your immediate comfort zone. It's just possible the healer and/or the dps knows about their kit, your kit, the dungeon, etc. Yes, you might die because they were wrong, or you messed up, but that's also a lesson: wiping is nbd.
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Jun 16, 2023 16:46
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Tekopo posted:Letting people die is reportable I know FFXIV has the reputation of having some insanely draconic enforcement of its TOS but this sort of thing would never be actioned by a gm.
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Jun 16, 2023 16:54
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I know FFXIV has the reputation of having some insanely draconic enforcement of its TOS but this sort of thing would never be actioned by a gm. it will if you're dumb enough to say that's what you're doing in chat
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Jun 16, 2023 17:08
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Still won't be enough. You're not going to get banned for saying "you pull, you tank."
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Jun 16, 2023 17:10
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ME: Long...live...THE KING *pushes MCH into all of Stone Vigil's packs*
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Jun 16, 2023 17:12
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Probably you shouldn't do it because it's being a big dumb baby throwing a tantrum rather than because the GMs are gonna getcha
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Jun 16, 2023 17:14
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i cant relate to even noticing dps pulling most of my time tanking in dungeons. between watching for my mits to fall off and dodging aoes, im spending my attention trying to cluster up the mob into as tight a ball as i can into whatever puddles my buddies are putting on the floor. if the dps (or healer) pulls they'll bring it into your death blender or they may perish. simple as. edit: caveat if I do notice a buddy who's clueless and actively not bringing something in, I'll throw out a ranged attack to take aggro. but they should bring it into the blender if they want things to go safely and smoothly! above all, dont go out of your way to take aggro if your teammate is making it easy for you to do so. Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 17:16
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Vitamean posted:dps pulling is extra addersting for sage 😎 I usually shield the tank and myself while running between packs. One of the small curses of having raid gear is that my shields are now so big that even if I Icarus in before the tank can charge I still have too much shield for one round of mob autos to break  I'll admit I have little patience with Extremely Careful Tanks sometimes. Mainly for bosses in alliance raids that don't have any particular requirements on positioning or the like: standing around and wasting 20 people's time just seems rude and I can healertank bosses, including their tankbusters, should I have to. Dungeons are less irksome in that regard, it's more that being the healer to a single-pulling tank feels entirely redundant. Sometimes I will dot up the next pack of mobs and run it over to you so I can feel like I am contributing something. Practical advice for newbie tanks: no one will have a problem with you just taking trash packs two at a time (or a pack and a boss, in A Realm Reborn where it lets you). Just don't single pull: doing so is very boring for everyone else, and probably also for you.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:17
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It's one of the sections of the TOS. I have reported tanks for just sitting still and not doing anything. I don't know if any action is taking beyond a warning (and I imagine a warning is enough), but you can find the specific sections in the TOS that talk about :
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Jun 16, 2023 17:17
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If you queue for a specific dungeon/raid, do you get matched with people who are queuing for roulette? Cause it's EU prime time now and I've been waiting for over 30 minutes as a tank which doesn't seem right....
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Jun 16, 2023 17:19
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If I'm off-tanking in a trial, I usually wait to turn on my stance until the opening burst is done. That means I can be second if the main tank bites it. And if I somehow overtake them anyways, despite them having a huge threat lead from burst? Then I've just won the videogame.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:19
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Mr. Neutron posted:If you queue for a specific dungeon/raid, do you get matched with people who are queuing for roulette? Cause it's EU prime time now and I've been waiting for over 30 minutes as a tank which doesn't seem right.... Yeah, it'll match you with anyone queuing for the specific duty, or the applicable roulette. That said some roulettes are pretty dire due them being optional and/or not run often, and EU has the additional issue of language settings which might make things worse. Which are you queued for?
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Jun 16, 2023 17:22
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Mr. Neutron posted:If you queue for a specific dungeon/raid, do you get matched with people who are queuing for roulette? Cause it's EU prime time now and I've been waiting for over 30 minutes as a tank which doesn't seem right.... Yes, you will be matched with roulettes, it's what they're there for. However: - If it's an alliance raid then tank queues are sometimes quite long. Tanks are 1/8th of an alliance raid, instead of the 1/4th they are everywhere else. - Some content is not in any roulette except Mentor. Mostly Binding Coils, Savages and Extremes. Urth's Fount is the one that usually catches people out. - The Bozja raids in Shadowbringers are their own thing.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:23
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Which are you queued for? The Puppet's Bunker, the second Nier: Automata raid. Xerophyte posted:- If it's an alliance raid then tank queues are sometimes quite long. Tanks are 1/8th of an alliance raid, instead of the 1/4th they are everywhere else. I suppose this must be why then 
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Jun 16, 2023 17:33
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Alliance raids also have the problem that a lot of players either don’t unlock the optional ones, or will take gear off to make sure they can’t queue into the latter ones.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:38
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I wish there was some gear I could take off to not get the 50 raids
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Jun 16, 2023 17:40
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FuturePastNow posted:I wish there was some gear I could take off to not get the 50 raids
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Jun 16, 2023 17:40
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Mr. Neutron posted:The Puppet's Bunker, the second Nier: Automata raid. There are a couple of other things that can contribute. As mentioned there is a bias in the roulette to the lower level raids: partly because of people intentionally tanking their ilvl before queueing, mostly because if you take 20 random people from the front of the roulette queue and try to find a viable raid then the odds are pretty high that at least one of them will be queued on a job <L60 which then forces Crystal Tower for everyone. Additionally, if the alliance roulette flips to Tank for role in need in EU prime time (which is just after daily reset) then the tank queue can get absolutely hammered. Post-reset role in need can make a lot of mains saturate the queue in order to get some free gil for doing something they were going to do for tomestones regardless. Anyhow, 30 minutes doesn't sound completely out of order for an alliance raid queue on a tank even under normal circumstances. For alliance it's generally the case that healer is fastest, followed by dps and then tank. Role in need bonuses can make that fluctuate very suddenly. Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 18:00
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You can always try to pressgang a healer or even dps buddy to queue with you. Mooch off their faster position in the queue.
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Jun 16, 2023 18:04
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Xerophyte posted:There are a couple of other things that can contribute. As mentioned there is a bias in the roulette to the lower level raids: partly because of people intentionally tanking their ilvl before queueing, mostly because if you take 20 random people from the front of the roulette queue and try to find a viable raid then the odds are pretty high that at least one of them will be queued on a job <L60 which then forces Crystal Tower for everyone. Ah, I never thought of that but yeah, that makes perfect sense. Orcs and Ostriches posted:Alliance raids also have the problem that a lot of players either don’t unlock the optional ones, or will take gear off to make sure they can’t queue into the latter ones.  Never thought of that either. Reminds me of WoW at one time when it would count gear in your bags for ilvl, even for different roles but...inverted 
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Jun 16, 2023 18:48
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People keep saying that people remove gear to get the 50 raids but is that actually true or not?
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Jun 16, 2023 19:11
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it's not every time, but if you pay attention you often see someone queue into syrcus tower fully nude
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Jun 16, 2023 19:14
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Feldegast42 posted:People keep saying that people remove gear to get the 50 raids but is that actually true or not? a cartoon duck posted:it's not every time, but if you pay attention you often see someone queue into syrcus tower fully nude Usually it's just the fact that you only need 1 person out of the 24 people in the queue to be <L60 or not have any other raids unlocked for everyone to end up in CT. A bias to ending up in lower level content is just a natural consequence of how the queues are implemented. The same effect exists in all the dungeon and raid queues, but it's stronger the more people you need to match with. That said, even if it's rare the cheese does sometimes happen and you can notice when it does. Another tell-tale sign is that some is suddenly half-dead a couple of seconds after loading in, as they double or triple their max HP from equipping the rest of their gear.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:21
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Feldegast42 posted:People keep saying that people remove gear to get the 50 raids but is that actually true or not? I've seen streamers do it. I don't run alliance roulette much but when I get dragged into CT roulette there's a decent chance I'll see someone's HP jump drastically shortly after zoning in, as they requip their gear.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:31
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Feldegast42 posted:People keep saying that people remove gear to get the 50 raids but is that actually true or not?
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Jun 16, 2023 19:33
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Feldegast42 posted:People keep saying that people remove gear to get the 50 raids but is that actually true or not? It's true. The roulette won't put you in anything that exceeds your ilevel when you join the queue (you can even re-equip the gear after queuing, but before it pops). Probably not a ton of people actually do this, but it's more than zero. I know a couple people who do it because they are traumatized by Dun Scaith's first boss, specifically. Most others just don't have anything else unlocked, either because they really are only level 50 or free trial but some people get incredibly weird about refusing to do optional raids. FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 19:34
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Feldegast42 posted:People keep saying that people remove gear to get the 50 raids but is that actually true or not? i did it when i needed specifically crystal towers for... something i forget now (a relic?) but still wanted to get the roulette bonus when i was doing it it's very common practice during dry seasons, and was probably more common before they added echo to orbonne because people didn't want to deal with bots trying to do that one. and there are plenty of bots in alliance roulette, just like in frontlines. more people means they can hide better
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Jun 16, 2023 19:37
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I've been having good luck with alliance roulette lately, but if I'm in a bad enough mood to consider just dropping out of a Labyrinth or whatever, I at least wait to see if the "new player bonus" text shows up, not because I want the bonus, but because it means at least one person is here by story requirement, and it makes me feel just a little bit less like my time is being wasted. I think I've said it before, but Syrcus is almost tolerable because I can just turn off my brain and listen to a YouTube video while I ignore all the mechanics, WoD is fine because the mechanics are actually kind of fun, but Labyrinth completely sucks poo poo. Half the bosses have invulnerable or untargetable phases where you just sit around doing nothing while you wait for stuff to happen, and the other half have sprout traps that are trivially easy, but someone's going to get yelled at for not doing them. I hope they update Labyrinth soon-ish; as it is, it's an awful introduction to Alliance raids.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:56
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FuturePastNow posted:It's true. The roulette won't put you in anything that exceeds your ilevel when you join the queue (you can even re-equip the gear after queuing, but before it pops). Probably not a ton of people actually do this, but it's more than zero. I know a couple people who do it because they are traumatized by Dun Scaith's first boss, specifically. Most others just don't have anything else unlocked, either because they really are only level 50 or free trial but some people get incredibly weird about refusing to do optional raids. of course that assumes whatever duty has a min ilvl in the first place. for whatever strange reason, trials that don't sync you to a level divisible by ten don't have min ilvls, so once i got the level 83 trial in roulette with some random red mage still wearing level 70 artifact gear.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:56
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