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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I liked that it was just the remixed FFIV moon music for the 13th's moon. Always had a creepy, desolate vibe to me. I'm still impressed they found a way to turn it into actual music. FFIV Another Moon stands with a lot of music in Earthbound's endgame as using the SNES sound capabilities to make really weird, spare, almost non-music and make it feel deliberate instead of just 'either the sound chip is broken or the composer was stupid' which would've happened if you tried any earlier.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:58
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Failboattootoot posted:May as well. I enjoyed 1-4 a lot. Though 4 least of all weirdly. It was still good though. It's been a lot of fun to see where a bunch of these ff references are coming from. I kinda get that. While 4 probably has the best cast of the early four games, the plot is very much "Cecil and Co. try to stop Golbez, but then gently caress up immensely. Also, maybe a fake out death or two (aside from the old guy who dies for real)." on repeat until Fusoya shows up and smacks the possession out of Golbez.
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Jun 16, 2023 21:32
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I feel like FF4 is best understood for its impact if you strictly compare it to FF1-3 and DQ1-4, as it would’ve been at the time of its release. Of course that’s easier said than done in TYOL 2023.
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Jun 16, 2023 21:47
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I kinda get that. While 4 probably has the best cast of the early four games, the plot is very much "Cecil and Co. try to stop Golbez, but then gently caress up immensely. Also, maybe a fake out death or two (aside from the old guy who dies for real)." on repeat until Fusoya shows up and smacks the possession out of Golbez. Eh my beef with it is mostly that of the 4 PR games I played through, 4 had the worst combat I felt. It probably didn't help that even though I never made it far past palom's and porom's bits over the years until PR, I still knew most of the plot beats so there weren't really any surprises. But largely I just hated ATB and how completely dogshit some of your party members in 4 are. Like, the completely random turn orders in the previous 3 were still preferable to me than the insanely fast enemy turns of 4. 5 thankfully didn't have the same problem, but I didn't get far into 5 before getting sidetracked by SoP.
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Jun 16, 2023 22:23
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Failboattootoot posted:Eh my beef with it is mostly that of the 4 PR games I played through, 4 had the worst combat I felt. It probably didn't help that even though I never made it far past palom's and porom's bits over the years until PR, I still knew most of the plot beats so there weren't really any surprises. But largely I just hated ATB and how completely dogshit some of your party members in 4 are. Like, the completely random turn orders in the previous 3 were still preferable to me than the insanely fast enemy turns of 4. 5 thankfully didn't have the same problem, but I didn't get far into 5 before getting sidetracked by SoP. IV is definitely the one treated worst by the pixel remaster, but that's not really anyone's fault. IV was the big leap in technology from 8-bit to 16-bit, it just... doesn't feel special when all six are being remade to the same level.
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Jun 17, 2023 03:10
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Getting a preemptive attack in 4 and enemies still act before you was so bad
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Jun 17, 2023 03:22
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does the pixel remaster of 4 still have that thing where like 90% of the enemies counter on physicals
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Jun 17, 2023 04:00
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Failboattootoot posted:Eh my beef with it is mostly that of the 4 PR games I played through, 4 had the worst combat I felt. It probably didn't help that even though I never made it far past palom's and porom's bits over the years until PR, I still knew most of the plot beats so there weren't really any surprises. But largely I just hated ATB and how completely dogshit some of your party members in 4 are. Like, the completely random turn orders in the previous 3 were still preferable to me than the insanely fast enemy turns of 4. 5 thankfully didn't have the same problem, but I didn't get far into 5 before getting sidetracked by SoP. Oh, that's fair. I played IV DS, where some sadist decided that every boss needed to have a turbofuck your party counterattack and/or general ability, like Lugae with his Reverse Gas.  I wonder if that same person is to blame for the counter system in Bravely Default II.
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Jun 17, 2023 04:14
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FuturePastNow posted:I wonder if there were Loporrits on the 13th's moon. If there were I bet they're adorable little voidsent now too Now I'm just wondering if there were Loporrits on the surviving shards' moons getting mobilized for the Final Days. I kind of assume not, because someone on the First would have said something (and I'm not sure the Final Days were even happening on the shards?), but I'm just picturing this fleet of moon-spaceships becoming an immensely cosmologically complicated space caravan.
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Jun 17, 2023 04:19
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Antivehicular posted:Now I'm just wondering if there were Loporrits on the surviving shards' moons getting mobilized for the Final Days. I kind of assume not, because someone on the First would have said something (and I'm not sure the Final Days were even happening on the shards?), but I'm just picturing this fleet of moon-spaceships becoming an immensely cosmologically complicated space caravan. I don't think any of the Shards had Loporrits, because it was a major point of motivation for Thancred to learn that there was no evacuation plan for the Shards. He straight-up asked the Watcher "hey what happens to the Reflections if the Source goes?" and the watcher said "Yeah, they all just die." And then he straight-up asked Livingway about plans for the shards and she just went "Nope, there are none." With no Moon Evacuation Plan, I can't imagine there'd be any purpose to having Loporrits on the shards.
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Jun 17, 2023 04:25
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I swear I remember lopporites being mentioned on the 13ths moon. Like Y'shtola or someone saying in passing if there were lopporites there they're long gone. I could be very wrong though, I only went through once so far
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Jun 17, 2023 04:27
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TheWorldsaStage posted:I swear I remember lopporites being mentioned on the 13ths moon. Like Y'shtola or someone saying in passing if there were lopporites there they're long gone. I could be very wrong though, I only went through once so far Yes, she did mention their absence.
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Jun 17, 2023 04:51
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It's possible the watcher and his tower predates the Sundering. The Ancients seem like they would be unwilling to let something as powerful as Zodiark just happy-rear end around, even if their brains were getting contaminated by tempering waves. The Moon would also make sense as a site for Zodiark because the most they were able to determine about the great evil was that it came from the stars, somehow, and if Zodiark is on the Moon and able to affect the planet, Zodiark is sufficiently powerful and is unlikely to let the bad back in even if he should weaken or start to falter. At least not quickly. The Lopporits, though, I thought were a post-hoc creation. It's possible this is just a script error though.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:28
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My theory for Zodiark and the Moon is that both were created at the same time, or the Moon was created specifically as a place to summon and base Zodiark from. As far as I'm aware no skybox dating to the age of the Ancients HAS a moon in it. Logically, the tower probably was made at the same time as the Moon. The design language for the Loporrits is a little different from classic Ancient, but the Watcher's Tower lines up better.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:39
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It's explicitly stated that Venat made the Watcher in the short story about the member of the Hydaelyn crew he's based off of.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:40
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Gearhead posted:As far as I'm aware no skybox dating to the age of the Ancients HAS a moon in it. I could swear there's a moon in Elpis? I remember people mentioning it.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:52
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I think Hydaelyn took the existing moon and... altered it. It's a structure made out of the natural moon.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:55
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Yeah, that was always my assumption. There was a moon, but Hydaelyn just converted it into the prison/spaceship/burrow we know.
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Jun 17, 2023 06:31
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Antivehicular posted:I could swear there's a moon in Elpis? I remember people mentioning it. Nobody in the actual game mentions it. Some weathers and times of day combine to make the moon slightly visible, but it's hard to tell if that was intentional or 'the devs did their best to hide it and just missed a couple times'.
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Jun 17, 2023 07:07
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I feel like if they didn’t want the moon in the Elpis skybox it’d be pretty easy for them to have it completely removed
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Jun 17, 2023 13:54
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Antivehicular posted:Yeah, that was always my assumption. There was a moon, but Hydaelyn just converted it into the prison/spaceship/burrow we know. It occurs to me that since the sundering obviously pre-dates the escape plan, and there was no escape plan for the shards, the moons of the shards must be shards of the original moon. So, the moon is not artificial in the "conjured out of nothing" sense, simply converted to suit an unnatural purpose. (Also artificial is the English word, how do they describe it in Japanese?)
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Jun 17, 2023 15:23
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Badger of Basra posted:I feel like if they didn’t want the moon in the Elpis skybox it’d be pretty easy for them to have it completely removed I mean, I genuinely think they tried to do that in their way. Elpis is a low level of 'fancy skybox' where it's not, like, Ultima Thule levels of 'crazy poo poo that needs new assets', so they probably prettied up a normal skybox rather than make a whole new one. I feel like it's completely understandable if that's the approach they took to obscure the moon or any other telltale normalcy, and they just happened to miss 'the moon's a bit visible if you look in the right place in the rarest weather type at 4am'. I don't think it really matters one way or the other, because 'made a purpose-built moon to put Zodiark in' and 'put Zodiark in a pre-existing moon that she then modified for a specific purpose' are both pretty equally crazy, and I'm honestly not invested enough to have an opinion on this for that reason. I can just see a reason why this might not be the surefire evidence it feels like it should be; surely if they wanted the moon to be visible in Elpis, they'd have made it MORE visible, right?
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Jun 17, 2023 18:30
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There can't be loporrits on the 13th because then they would've been turned into horrible undying monsters, and the universe won't allow that. Alternatively they just turned into the depressed loporrit model but are otherwise the same cheery buns just watching offscreen with popcorn while we battle
GloomMouse fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 05:20
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Counselingway's counterpart on the 13th successfully passed his(?) proposal.
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Jun 18, 2023 05:26
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GloomMouse posted:There can't be loporrits on the 13th because then they would've been turned into horrible undying monsters, and the universe won't allow that. Alternatively they just turned into the depressed loporrit model but are otherwise the same cheery buns just watching offscreen with popcorn while we battle Loporrits only exist in the source. They were made by Venat/Hydaelyn in order to prep for the mass evacuation of the planet in case Zodiark's ozone layer of aether was compromised. And she didn't factor the other shards into her plans, only focused on the source, so there wouldn't be any moon rabbits anywhere else.
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Jun 18, 2023 08:38
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the_steve posted:Loporrits only exist in the source. They were made by Venat/Hydaelyn in order to prep for the mass evacuation of the planet in case Zodiark's ozone layer of aether was compromised. Well, they weren't factored in to our knowledge. They definitely don't have an Escape Moon, but a lot of Hydaelyn's plan--including the parts she rejected--is something of a black box. It's entirely possible she tried to figure out an escape plan for the shards and just couldn't, or that she actually was doing something important with them and we just never found out. None of that's necessarily saying that's a mystery to resolve (although until we're done on the Red Moon I wouldn't be completely sure), but it is worth remembering that we don't know. ...although now I'm suddenly realizing something: Golbez's hangout is in the Zodiark Hole on the Red Moon... but if Zodiark only dissipated when we killed it, then he's only moved in recently. We know he's been active for a while, because he's had Azdaja for, presumably, thousands of years (because if Azdaja was just loose all the time Zero would've seen her). So either Golbez has a previous domain that he spent a whole bunch of time in, or he already dealt with a part of Zodiark way before we did.
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Jun 18, 2023 09:28
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Cleretic posted:Well, they weren't factored in to our knowledge. They definitely don't have an Escape Moon, but a lot of Hydaelyn's plan--including the parts she rejected--is something of a black box. It's entirely possible she tried to figure out an escape plan for the shards and just couldn't, or that she actually was doing something important with them and we just never found out. None of that's necessarily saying that's a mystery to resolve (although until we're done on the Red Moon I wouldn't be completely sure), but it is worth remembering that we don't know. Or his domain is mobile like Barbariccia's was. Or he built his domain on top of the Zodiark Hole and it fell in when the seals broke.
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Jun 18, 2023 10:01
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sweet geek swag posted:Or his domain is mobile like Barbariccia's was. Or he built his domain on top of the Zodiark Hole and it fell in when the seals broke. Imagine being Golbez, sitting in your place, minding your own business one day, when suddenly, ZOOP! A hole opened up under your place.
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Jun 18, 2023 13:36
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There isn't evidence of a seal on the surface of the thirteenth moon like there is on the source, so I would assume the Zodiark chunk there was contained in some other way. Golbez probably established his domain there expecting to use the chunk's aether at some point, and was maybe just surprised when it dissipated and became a voidsent. Zodiark's splitting in the sundering also seemed to be more literal based on his appearance when we fight him, so it's possible the chunks didn't need to be sealed because they were just parts of the full creature, like how Anima was partitioned to create the towers.
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Jun 18, 2023 18:19
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Only the main body with the brain/core having to be properly sealed works for the sundering and lack of real protections on the other moon we see. An arm/tentacle isn't going to do anything on it's own and thus doesn't require a complicated sealing setup compared to zodiarks core being.
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Jun 18, 2023 18:39
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in line with the FF4 expansion stuff I choose to believe the limb bits where just crawling around on their own in the middle of some really big moon pit since the sundering.
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Jun 18, 2023 18:59
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https://twitter.com/jackjackknight/status/1670317051452481544
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Jun 18, 2023 20:01
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Keep in mind inter Shard time is relative and explicitly ebbs and flows. Now factor in that the Thirteenth is so destroyed that death no longer works. Who's to say time in the sense we describe does either? Golbez could have been working for a thousand years since his Zodiark chunk's death, for all we know, or it could simply be a stretched out eternal now.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:43
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After we got the image of Golbez killing the 13th's Watcher (after 6.2? I forget when we were shown it) my assumption is that there was a Zodiark bit on the 13th's moon, Golbez absorbed it, and then made the moon his base afterward as he planned to use the leftover Zodiark aether for his plans. I don't know how the timing would line up between eating the Zodiark bit and capturing Azdaja though.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:50
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How did Golbez get to the 13th's moon?
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Jun 18, 2023 20:51
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Duodecimal posted:How did Golbez get to the 13th's moon? Flapped his arms real hard.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:53
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Duodecimal posted:How did Golbez get to the 13th's moon? Space Whale
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Jun 18, 2023 20:56
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he jumped
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Jun 18, 2023 21:03
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iPodschun posted:After we got the image of Golbez killing the 13th's Watcher (after 6.2? I forget when we were shown it) my assumption is that there was a Zodiark bit on the 13th's moon, Golbez absorbed it, and then made the moon his base afterward as he planned to use the leftover Zodiark aether for his plans. I don't know how the timing would line up between eating the Zodiark bit and capturing Azdaja though. We know at least that Golbez didn't eat the Zodiark chunk, as that's what formed the voidsent that ate Azdaja to become Zeromus. He also was on the thirteenth's moon when we defeated Zodiark, as he knew about the chunk prior to it turning into a voidsent, although the time wonkiness means we don't necessarily know how much time has passed on the thirteenth since then. I think his plan has always been to empower some other creature to breach the rift, likely using the Zodiark aether as fuel. He probably would want to avoid absorbing other creatures, especially so much to breach the rift himself, because of the soul mixing thing.
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Jun 18, 2023 21:50
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Jetrauben posted:eternal now. aw poo poo
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Jun 18, 2023 21:50
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