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goatsestretchgoals posted:My regdate might not show it but I’ve been lurking since before tribute.avi. You are going to need to show some receipts for 2003 goons filing in lockstep behind GWB. That was a long time ago…
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Jun 18, 2023 11:45
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A.o.D. posted:There are 3 main differences: 1) Availability. Normally I'd write price in here, but they're being provided as aid. Attack'ums are simply going to be easier to provide to Ukraine than Stormshadow due to unit cost. 1) Rapidity with which they can service a target. The HIMARS can put rounds on target much more rapidly than any missile that has to be air launched, meaning that Storm Shadow isn't useful for targets of opportunity, while ATACMS will be about as useful as regular GMLRS for pop up targets. 3) Stealth, and yes, you read that correctly. While the Storm Shadow itself is semi stealthy and the ATACMS is not, the launch platforms are very different. Presumably, Russia can see everything in the air over Ukraine, but their ability to detect the HIMARS on the ground is very limited. Simply put, it's harder for Russia to know that an ATACMS strike is about to happen than it is to detect that a Storm Shadow might be imminent.
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Jun 18, 2023 13:11
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Pablo Bluth posted:Has there been any credible evidence that Russia have been able to mitigate to any degree Storm shadow launches? It has advanced enough navigation capabilities that the launch point surely can't reveal much about the possible target. Not really. Presumably their division level HQs have local air defenses deployed, but that hasn't stopped Ukraine from blowing them up.
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Jun 18, 2023 13:23
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Pablo Bluth posted:Has there been any credible evidence that Russia have been able to mitigate to any degree Storm shadow launches? It has advanced enough navigation capabilities that the launch point surely can't reveal much about the possible target. We’ve seen Ukraine be concerned enough to launch decoy munitions with their Storm launches. That we haven’t seen reports of Storm Shadow credibly intercepted doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Having only a handful (one?) aircraft that can launch your munition that is critical to disrupting deep rear area activities just isn’t the same as any HIMARS along a 1500 mile front just suddenly rips out a couple of ATACMS with no warning or lead up. For one thing when you see that aircraft airborne and heading east you can put the air defense units on higher alert. Although we did see something that looked like increased fratricide the first days of its use they [the russians] seem to have regained their composure.
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Jun 18, 2023 13:24
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Pablo Bluth posted:Has there been any credible evidence that Russia have been able to mitigate to any degree Storm shadow launches? It has advanced enough navigation capabilities that the launch point surely can't reveal much about the possible target. Russia has proven capable of adaptation, even if they're a bit slow on the uptake. That they haven't formed a cohesive counter strategy to Storm Shadow so far does not guarantee that one cannot be formulated.
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Jun 18, 2023 15:34
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Herstory Begins Now posted:plenty of people have invaded vietnam succesfully, it's the holding onto it part that is hard. also the human toll of pretty much every occupation of vietnam has been completely loving horrific before even getting into the human toll of the respective fights for liberation and occupation caused famines. idk it's hard to feel much bravado on vietnam's behalf when the reality has been that they were fighting against seemingly impossible odds because the alternative was continued subservience to regimes that literally did not care if they lived or died. it's certainly impressive what they accomplished, but jesus gently caress the cost of it all One thing that sorta jumps out to me as a wider trend looking across Vietnam, Afghanistan, the Swiss, the Finns, and surely others is that mountain people seem to be uniquely tenacious across time and space. Regardless of continent, loving with the hillfolk is a recipe for a bad time.
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Jun 18, 2023 16:44
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shame on an IGA posted:One thing that sorta jumps out to me as a wider trend looking across Vietnam, Afghanistan, the Swiss, the Finns, and surely others is that mountain people seem to be uniquely tenacious across time and space. Regardless of continent, loving with the hillfolk is a recipe for a bad time. Finland's very flat. Just swamp, lakes and forest.
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Jun 18, 2023 16:50
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:Finland's very flat. Just swamp, lakes and forest. Yes, but you’re not supposed to gently caress with the Ents, either. The tree folk are ferocious when their anger is aroused.
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Jun 18, 2023 17:01
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shame on an IGA posted:the Finns shame on an IGA posted:mountain people
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Jun 18, 2023 17:34
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:Finland's very flat. Just swamp, lakes and forest. presumably the "hills" here include inclines below the waterline
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Jun 18, 2023 17:54
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:Finland's very flat. Just swamp, lakes and forest. What the Finnish snipers don’t get, the meth elemental will stalk and kill. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimo_Koivunen
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Jun 18, 2023 18:25
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https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1670396409672081408?s=20 Silly as it sounds for anyone to be using this against tanks, I assume it'd still be a viable weapon against, say, a Humvee or the like.
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Jun 18, 2023 19:33
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Probably. I think those things had a penetration of something like 40mm (of WW2 era plate) at a hundred metres. Much like the SVTs they were handing to the conscripts from the occupied areas last year, while it is hilariously past its prime it's still lethal to a lot of things if the person using it can aim. It's just the list of those things doesn't include anything you'd expect to see making an assault, except dismounted infantry. Edit: enjoy keeping those things operational in battlefield conditions. They are mucky pups. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 19:52
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in theory those sorts of weapons can still be used to disable optics and the like, even on a modern tank like the 2A6. in practice its gonna be pretty dangerous to do so in the face of those same optics, for limited and uncertain success.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:00
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I suppose in a grim way this validates the old soviet strategy of just ratholing everything because you might need it later, because lo and behold, they DO have some quantity of Things, and grandpa's anti-tank rifle (that wasn't good against tanks in the 40s) can still pop holes in a vehicle, or at least make loud noises and deter advance.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:00
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What's the kill function on those? Do they fragment through the plate or is it a straight through and through and hope you hit something fleshy?
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Jun 18, 2023 20:05
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Straight through, dont think theres much spalling at that size
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Jun 18, 2023 20:09
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:What's the kill function on those? Do they fragment through the plate or is it a straight through and through and hope you hit something fleshy? There isn’t. They were designed for a world of BR1.3 war thunder tanks.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:10
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Yeah youre hoping you hit people, ammo, or propulsion, but its also not that big of a round so...yeah. and i doubt if it had explosive rounds or anything that theyre gonna work worth a drat
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Jun 18, 2023 20:12
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PurpleXVI posted:https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1670396409672081408?s=20 12.7x 108 is viable against a Humvee. I'm not sure that something firing 14.5x114 adds any significant utility. Besides, the Russians have had something WAY better than both against light/medium armor for many decades: the RPG-7. Trotting out the PTR-41 is dum dum stupid. Comrade Blyatlov posted:What's the kill function on those? Do they fragment through the plate or is it a straight through and through and hope you hit something fleshy? Solid penetrator or API, so you're hoping for a direct hit on occupants or to at least generate enough spalling to cause meaningful damage, or to hopefully catch something very sensitive on fire. Anti-spall liners, wet ammunition storage, blow-out panels, and fire suppresion systems weren't much of a thing in 1941. This is a dumb, obsolete tool and an example of dumb, obsolete propaganda. edit: seriously, I kind of doubt this kind of thing would be very useful against even an MRAP.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:13
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A.o.D. posted:Besides, the Russians have had something WAY better than both against light/medium armor for many decades: the RPG-7. Trotting out the PTR-41 is dum dum stupid. If you are shooting at humvees, I think the AT rifle has much higher practical range, and is easier to get hits with. But the post-pen effects probably leave a lot to be desired...
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Jun 18, 2023 20:22
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If they're actually using them it's probably in the hands of disposable conscripts from the occupied areas. If there are any of them left. I might be misremembering but I seem to recall seeing at least one being carried by a units of those poor fucks months ago. In practical terms even the actual RF army conscipts should have better gear handed to them before they get thrown in the woodchipper. The biggest real 'value' of weapons like that is in propaganda playing to the national psyche's memory of the Great Patriotic War, and love of Steven Seagal films.
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Jun 18, 2023 20:38
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:words Not trying to call you out, but where did you get that particular stat regarding the 2nd largest customer base for the nazi store. I'm not sure I want to end up on some government watch list for trying to google the answer.
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Jun 18, 2023 22:20
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https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1670510694838546436 This seems somewhat desperate on behalf of the Russian forces.
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Jun 19, 2023 00:00
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wow VBIEDs. That seems kind of embarrassing for Russia. That said, the shockwave that thing produced was horrific.
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Jun 19, 2023 00:10
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As I've mentioned in the TFR cold war thread, I have my doubts about how remotely controlled you can make a t54/55. It's nowhere near as torturous as the T-34 to drive, but it still has a manual transmission. I'd love to see proof of how you could rig one for remote control, though, I really would.
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Jun 19, 2023 00:14
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A.o.D. posted:As I've mentioned in the TFR cold war thread, I have my doubts about how remotely controlled you can make a t54/55. It's nowhere near as torturous as the T-34 to drive, but it still has a manual transmission. Probably why it’s at a crawl. In low gear with a brick on the throttle.
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Jun 19, 2023 00:17
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Bum the Sad posted:Probably why it’s at a crawl. In low gear with a brick on the throttle. You know what, I have decided that is the narrative I'm going to choose to believe. It's a better use for a t54 than filling it full of dudes and trying to do tank stuff on the modern battlefield. It's also less depressing.
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Jun 19, 2023 00:20
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The scale of that explosion makes it seem like it was very much not a good idea to shoot it with a rocket from that distance 
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Jun 19, 2023 00:53
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Soul Dentist posted:The scale of that explosion makes it seem like it was very much not a good idea to shoot it with a rocket from that distance It's not like you're gonna know ahead of time it was full of tnt
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Jun 19, 2023 00:55
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Bum the Sad posted:Probably why it’s at a crawl. In low gear with a brick on the throttle. Just pull a Roadhouse & stick a knife on the gas pedal & your Mercedes will travel in a straight line through several barriers before exploding in a fireball only slightly smaller than in that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KvZqLVSL9c
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Jun 19, 2023 00:57
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:It's not like you're gonna know ahead of time it was full of tnt Oh for sure just that there's definitely consequences for the shooter, so in a way it did something
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Jun 19, 2023 00:57
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Soul Dentist posted:Oh for sure just that there's definitely consequences for the shooter, so in a way it did something Yeah, although it's certainly better than having it explode right on top of you.
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Jun 19, 2023 02:11
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That's one hell of a shockwave, drat.
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Jun 19, 2023 02:13
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I’m honestly a little impressed that it didn’t go off behind Russian lines.
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Jun 19, 2023 02:15
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Subjunctive posted:I’m honestly a little impressed that it didn’t go off behind Russian lines. ... this time.
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Jun 19, 2023 03:11
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"T-55 VBIED" is a phrase that's simultaneously mind-boggling, horrifying, and also an indictment of how well things are going for the Russians
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Jun 19, 2023 06:45
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If I was a commander on the ground and a had a lot of spare explosives and old tanks that barely functioned I would probably do the same. You can tell your higher ups you launched your attack and your men will probably appreciate not being thrown at Ukrainian defenses.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:53
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Wagering the next T54 catches a javelin the moment it's spotted rather than waiting for it hit a mine.
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Jun 19, 2023 08:47
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Russia’s answer to decoy tanks Russia used a tank
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