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I think the only thing that's guaranteed is that the poor soldiers near the front of that trench needed a change of pants. "lmao, they're sending a T-55 at us???? pop that sucker and lets watch the fireworks." And then suddenly the world goes white and a chunk of tank the size of a dog whips past your ear and cuts a tree in half. I think that sort of experience would make everyone need a sit-down, a strong drink and a few days off the front to come to terms with everything.
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Jun 20, 2023 12:29
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Rust Martialis posted:Sounds like an artillery officer all right. Joking aside, when I was a cadet it was pretty much known that the Artillery branch often took people who were pretty low on the OML and had weak grades. I thought it was odd because the Artillery Officer Basic Course was one of the few that had any real academic rigor. Lots of math, etc.--it was one of the only Officer Basic Courses where people actually could fail. Armor on the other hand was pretty easy and a lot of fun.
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Jun 20, 2023 15:26
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I feel like while artillery has plenty of math, there's a lot less decision making and threat analysis in that branch (unless you're FO) compared to armor or infantry.
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Jun 20, 2023 15:42
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PurpleXVI posted:I think that sort of experience would make everyone need a sit-down, a strong drink and a few days off the front to come to terms with everything. In my experience your target exploding leads to a lot of hootin' and hollerin'. CEASE FIRE, BITCH!
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Jun 20, 2023 15:44
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Itchy_Grundle posted:Joking aside, when I was a cadet it was pretty much known that the Artillery branch often took people who were pretty low on the OML and had weak grades. I thought it was odd because the Artillery Officer Basic Course was one of the few that had any real academic rigor. Lots of math, etc.--it was one of the only Officer Basic Courses where people actually could fail. Yeah it was where folks who wanted to go combat arms but couldn't get infantry or armor wound up. God help you if you wound up in the Chemical Corps.
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Jun 20, 2023 16:08
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Re: desensitization chat, I know gently caress all about violence or the military. But fields which regularly deal with damage to the human body (EMTs, surgeons, nurses, etc) have higher rates of death by suicide in part* because desensitization to bodily harm is one of the psychological enablers for actually making and carrying out a suicide plan. You have to be used to that kind of damage before you can think about doing it to yourself. So if you're desensitized to that stuff, be careful and kind to your brain, remember that mentally healthy people never think about harming themselves even an incidental way, and if you start having those thoughts step back and look at your circumstances and see if you're falling into a bad spot. *other parts include, of course, stress, trauma, bad working conditions, etc etc
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Jun 20, 2023 16:16
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I don't find much combat footage hard to watch, because to my thinking there is a delineation of whose in the game and who isn't. Violence, brutality, and horror is part of the profession- seeing 4k Go Pro to me is like watching fight tapes for boxers (which I've probably said a dozen times over the years here). I get visceral reactions from abuses on the people who aren't players. That trench video is no different than room clearing with no furniture and better lighting. I look at close combat is close combat, the only things different to the dance is the beat of the music. I look for what I can learn, try and put myself in the shoes of every person in the footage but I'm an obvious beacon of mental health. (E- conscripts aren't professionals, but if you are gonna dress for the game, you're a player) That said- take a break if you need to. I had to because I was getting obsessive with so much to watch. I did the same thing with Syria footage, and cartel footage. It's a compulsion.
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Jun 20, 2023 16:32
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Rust Martialis posted:Sounds like an artillery officer all right. Promotions for the whole squad!
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Jun 20, 2023 18:09
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psydude posted:Yeah it was where folks who wanted to go combat arms but couldn't get infantry or armor wound up. I will never forget the moment from my last deployment when I witnessed a young 2LT in the BN FDC receiving his first call for fire. His face lit up and he started sprinting around the TOC like an 8-year old who had just unwrapped a PS5 on Christmas morning. "Hooray, I'm in combat!"
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Jun 20, 2023 20:00
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Unless you've got a legitimate professional need to be looking at that stuff, and some sort of support system to help you deal with it, I really don't think there's any point watching videos like that. That's not a moral judgement, rather a practical one. Whether it seems like it or not at the time that poo poo is all just damage accruing with no positive trade-off. Yeah, I used to do disaster response and one of the things people said as a mantra was "only look at what you need to see." Both literally and metaphorically in terms of what you seek out. I think it's important to acknowledge that this kind of poo poo is happening, and to some degree there's value in having it be accessible so people can understand what Call of Duty leaves out. But at the same time, in my opinion unless you have a specific reason you need to view that stuff it's better to let it go, and that's likewise not a moral sense but a practical one. You don't know which video is going to be the one that stays with you in ways that are unhelpful.
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Jun 20, 2023 20:06
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psydude posted:Yeah it was where folks who wanted to go combat arms but couldn't get infantry or armor wound up. I know someone who used the Chemical Corps perfectly. Enlisted around 2002-ish, same as me. I met him in Baqubah in 2004 the first week we were there doing handover, and he was an NBC E-4. I also saw him the last week we were there before we left, and he was an E-6. Dude enlisted in a star MOS that he knew sucked so that he could get max bonus, make E-6 as fast as possible, then reclass after his first term. Top-tier "they're using you so use them"
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Jun 20, 2023 20:07
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GD_American posted:I know someone who used the Chemical Corps perfectly. When I was the XO for a company, my NBC NCO was a superstar. Moved to the US from Mexico and started his own business installing satellite dishes. Joined the Army when they raised the age of enlistment during one of the surges. I met him as an E4 filling an E5 billet and when I left he was an E6 fast tracking as hard as he could. His NBC shop was so squared away it was amazing. Sensitive item inventories were a breeze with him.
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Jun 20, 2023 20:15
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TheWeedNumber posted:Ok so maybe that particular video had blurring but the one I saw was not blurred at all. I straight up clearly saw what was happening. And the reason it stuck out to me is I just do not have that exposure to this footage.  But absolutely talk with your therapist about your non-response if you're concerned about it. If nothing else, it might offer a data point that'll connect some dots and help them help you better navigate your life.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:22
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Appapros, a buddy who is in the Infantry watched the trench video and responded. "Goddamn" "That was actually hard to watch" My response was simple- "That's combat." I won't say it's a positive thing, but I do think people seeing this kind of footage is important, because it's real easy to forget that these are people, not endlessly respawning enemy being mowed down by a Nukem esque hero. These are people, and even if you live, it comes at a cost.
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Jun 21, 2023 03:23
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I really don't think it is important for people to see, at least not through the medium of random social media sharing. I think there are people who don't care, or at least aren't particularly thoughtful, about the actual cost to the fighters, who I don't think they will gain any sort of enlightenment from seeing footage of it. And there are people who have a baseline functioning level of empathy who aren't going to want to go looking for it because they already know that war is horrible and horrifying. If anything I think the former are more likely to be watching it specifically because they don't functionally empathise with the people on screen, and it forms just another detached aspect of the entertaining spectacle. Which goes hand in hand with the ubiquitous hardbass soundtracks. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 03:36
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This is starting to sound like circle jerking about being desensitized to violence which is dumb as hell. Shocking that a subforum full of vets has members that have seen folks die. We don’t need armchair quarterback breakdowns of how anyone would have handled clearing trenches of Russian soldiers.
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Jun 21, 2023 04:16
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Yeah new topic please
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Jun 21, 2023 05:01
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Hekk posted:This is starting to sound like circle jerking about being desensitized to violence which is dumb as hell. Shocking that a subforum full of vets has members that have seen folks die. While it’s good that you are heading off things at the pass, your assessment is wrong. Topic change is still warranted and I appreciate your vigilance to ensure it doesn’t turn into said circle jerk.
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Jun 21, 2023 05:09
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Ukraine using a Ford truck to haul a M777, naturally turn it into an ad https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1671178598881869824
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Jun 21, 2023 05:15
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Suicide Watch posted:Ukraine using a Ford truck to haul a M777, naturally turn it into an ad ngl I was wondering how guns like that shoot and scoot. Now I know.
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Jun 21, 2023 05:32
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https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1671254472591376384 uncle pennybags has found another billion for you under the seat cushion
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Jun 21, 2023 05:58
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I do wonder how much of that is the value of a M113 going from 'as new' when the US wants to highlight how much its doing to 'scrap value' when the gifting is done and the Pentagon can be more honest about what was going to happen to it otherwise.
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Jun 21, 2023 07:15
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BigRoman posted:Not trying to call you out, but where did you get that particular stat regarding the 2nd largest customer base for the nazi store. I'm not sure I want to end up on some government watch list for trying to google the answer. He probably just read it on twitter somewhere and didn't stop to think "how would that twitter user know this information?" because it was convenient for him.
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Jun 21, 2023 09:03
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Kith posted:It does good for them. Pay or no, the work has been burning them out. I will miss the information that they share, but I am happy for them realizing the way of the knife. hey now you can't use sword logic in here, this is the war room
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Jun 21, 2023 09:40
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Alchenar posted:I do wonder how much of that is the value of a M113 going from 'as new' when the US wants to highlight how much its doing to 'scrap value' when the gifting is done and the Pentagon can be more honest about what was going to happen to it otherwise. I was surprised when I heard that M113's were being sent to Ukraine, I remember hearing of them as basically tracked coffins at some point. Was that someone who had no idea what they were talking about?
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Jun 21, 2023 10:00
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PurpleXVI posted:I was surprised when I heard that M113's were being sent to Ukraine, I remember hearing of them as basically tracked coffins at some point. Was that someone who had no idea what they were talking about? I mean, an M113 is better than nothing, in the grand scheme of things. They're better than a HMMWV for stopping shrapnel and small arms, even if they're way worse than other newer platforms for mechanized infantry. Though, an RPG will make short work of anything without reactive armor or some sort of stuff like Dorchester/Chobham. orange juche fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 10:06
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It's a simple box on tracks with enough armour to stop small arms and most shrapnel you'd encounter while ferrying troops around. There's a reason it has endured for so long in so many variants and in such huge quantities.
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Jun 21, 2023 10:12
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orange juche posted:I mean, an M113 is better than nothing, in the grand scheme of things. They're better than a HMMWV for stopping shrapnel and small arms, even if they're way worse than other newer platforms for mechanized infantry. Though, an RPG will make short work of anything without reactive armor or some sort of stuff like Dorchester/Chobham. Careful, you'll summon Mike Sparks.
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Jun 21, 2023 10:13
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Careful, you'll summon Mike Sparks. None of the M113s we gave the Ukrainians can fly though
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Jun 21, 2023 10:31
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orange juche posted:None of the M113s we gave the Ukrainians can fly though yet
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Jun 21, 2023 10:32
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In lighter news. https://twitter.com/NatalkaKyiv/status/1671365500087959554 We finally have an explanation for Putin's super-long meeting tables. It's to avoid getting too close to another man and having the Russian social media sphere explode into accusations of crypto-homoeroticism.
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Jun 21, 2023 11:19
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Weed that video is literally less visceral than virtually any movie or game depicting the same thing, it's honestly not that surprising that you didnt feel much reaction to it.
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Jun 21, 2023 11:45
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orange juche posted:None of the M113s we gave the Ukrainians can fly though ded posted:yet If ever there was a people who would kitbash a M113 into a flying vehicle with shitloads of kontakt armor on it, its the Ukranians.
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Jun 21, 2023 12:18
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Is a M113 worse than a technical, or a "plain ole car" though? They seem to use those a fair bit. Even if you can't shrug off RPGs in em, isn't an M113 an upgrade to an ordinary ute?
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Jun 21, 2023 12:55
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Hyperlynx posted:Is a M113 worse than a technical, or a "plain ole car" though? They seem to use those a fair bit. Even if you can't shrug off RPGs in em, isn't an M113 an upgrade to an ordinary ute? If you're getting shot at by small arms, mortars and artillery, or plowing through mud, an M113 is leagues ahead of a civilian vehicle.
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Jun 21, 2023 13:01
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Honestly surprised we have not seen kitbashed Ukrainian Gavins with mortars or BMP turrets.
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Jun 21, 2023 13:38
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Blistex posted:Honestly surprised we have not seen kitbashed Ukrainian Gavins with mortars or BMP turrets. Haven't we given them mortar carriers?
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Jun 21, 2023 13:59
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Blistex posted:Honestly surprised we have not seen kitbashed Ukrainian Gavins with mortars or BMP turrets. People there usually do that with MT-LBs.
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Jun 21, 2023 14:42
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A.o.D. posted:If you're getting shot at by small arms, mortars and artillery, or plowing through mud, an M113 is leagues ahead of a civilian vehicle. Much like the point the milhist thread occasionally returns to when discussing the German arsenal across WW2, a poo poo vehicle that is proof against small arms and fragments is always better than no vehicle that is proof against those things.
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Jun 21, 2023 14:45
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Blistex posted:Honestly surprised we have not seen kitbashed Ukrainian Gavins with mortars or BMP turrets. I could have sworn there was one with some little old Soviet-style turret (Like from a BTR or something similar) mounted in it that showed up last summer/fall.
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