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I was more thinking tutors and efficient kill spells but you're not wrong
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Jun 16, 2023 03:00
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Fajita Queen posted:I was more thinking tutors and efficient kill spells but you're not wrong Only if you Vamp Tutor for more Ring Wraiths.
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Jun 16, 2023 04:04
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Having just learned of Leveler from this amazing interaction - what purpose does the card otherwise serve? It's a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact, I get that, but it doesn't have haste and while 10/10 is huge, it's not "end the game" huge even if you fling it unless you're already at the end of the game and....don't need a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact. Are there non-"gift" interactions with the thing?
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Jun 16, 2023 19:07
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George RR Fartin posted:Having just learned of Leveler from this amazing interaction - what purpose does the card otherwise serve? It's a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact, I get that, but it doesn't have haste and while 10/10 is huge, it's not "end the game" huge even if you fling it unless you're already at the end of the game and....don't need a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact. Are there non-"gift" interactions with the thing? Thassas oracle, jace, labman Counter the trigger with strict proctor or others Give it haste and win (in a 20 life game) Exile your library and cast cards you can cast from exile and use food chain
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Jun 16, 2023 19:16
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George RR Fartin posted:Having just learned of Leveler from this amazing interaction - what purpose does the card otherwise serve? It's a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact, I get that, but it doesn't have haste and while 10/10 is huge, it's not "end the game" huge even if you fling it unless you're already at the end of the game and....don't need a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact. Are there non-"gift" interactions with the thing? There are cards that say "you win the game" if you either draw a card on an empty deck (WAR Jace and Laboratory Maniac) or have more blue devotion than cards in your deck (Thassa's Oracle). So you can do cool things with that, too.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:17
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George RR Fartin posted:Having just learned of Leveler from this amazing interaction - what purpose does the card otherwise serve? It's a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact, I get that, but it doesn't have haste and while 10/10 is huge, it's not "end the game" huge even if you fling it unless you're already at the end of the game and....don't need a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact. Are there non-"gift" interactions with the thing? At the time Leveler, Eater of Days, Lord of Tresserhorn, etc. were printed, they served no purpose other than to make you have wasted your money on a pack. Even with Stifle getting printed, they were never strong enough for the hoops you had to jump through. But, casual players get vibes from using bad cards in niche kitchen table decks, so in the spirit of a casual format, they print things like Obeka and Beamtown Bullies to "make bad cards good". Those decks can be fun, if that's your thing, but they are usually to commander-centric to play at high tier tables, because you wind up with a bunch of bad cards in your deck, and if people jist remove your commander, you don't habe much of a path to victory.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:32
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Toshimo posted:At the time Leveler, Eater of Days, Lord of Tresserhorn, etc. were printed, they served no purpose other than to make you have wasted your money on a pack. Even with Stifle getting printed, they were never strong enough for the hoops you had to jump through. But, casual players get vibes from using bad cards in niche kitchen table decks, so in the spirit of a casual format, they print things like Obeka and Beamtown Bullies to "make bad cards good". Those decks can be fun, if that's your thing, but they are usually to commander-centric to play at high tier tables, because you wind up with a bunch of bad cards in your deck, and if people jist remove your commander, you don't habe much of a path to victory. And I feel like Bullies isn't meant for low power tables either, 'cause people don't play enough interaction and they're going to get super salty that you won with what essentially is a combo.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:38
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Batterypowered7 posted:And I feel like Bullies isn't meant for low power tables either, 'cause people don't play enough interaction and they're going to get super salty that you won with what essentially is a combo. Yes, this is part of the problem with their commander-forward design paired with Sheldon's lunatic ravings on "real commander". You cannot keep pushing things that have to be answered and then tell people they are playing wrong if they put answers in their deck.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:41
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Toshimo posted:Yes, this is part of the problem with their commander-forward design paired with Sheldon's lunatic ravings on "real commander". You cannot keep pushing things that have to be answered and then tell people they are playing wrong if they put answers in their deck. You know, I feel like some of the "nice" behavior in casual/battlecruiser/lower power Commander is because the decks aren't built to deal with threats and so people are afraid of "poking the bear" before they feel secure in their position. It's playing an RTS but having everyone take 30 minutes to build their super cool base before they actually start.
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Jun 16, 2023 20:25
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George RR Fartin posted:Having just learned of Leveler from this amazing interaction - what purpose does the card otherwise serve? It's a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact, I get that, but it doesn't have haste and while 10/10 is huge, it's not "end the game" huge even if you fling it unless you're already at the end of the game and....don't need a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact. Are there non-"gift" interactions with the thing? Magic cards are designed with three player types in mind: 1. "I want to play big, flashy stuff, even if it's not good, because big, flashy stuff is awesome and fun." 2. "I want to find weird niche interactions between cards to pull off crazy combos, because that's awesome and fun." 3. "I just want to win. Winning as hard and fast as possible is the only thing that matters in childrens' card games, and by extension, life." Leveler is designed to appeal to a cross between player types one and two. Either find a way to get around the drawback, or find a way to turn the drawback into an advantage that helps you win.
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Jun 16, 2023 20:33
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George RR Fartin posted:Having just learned of Leveler from this amazing interaction - what purpose does the card otherwise serve? It's a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact, I get that, but it doesn't have haste and while 10/10 is huge, it's not "end the game" huge even if you fling it unless you're already at the end of the game and....don't need a 5 to cast 10/10 artifact. Are there non-"gift" interactions with the thing? At the time it was printed, creatures were much worse. A 10/10 was generally considered “end the game” huge (even if mathematically, you’re right and it isn’t). Even with a staggeringly huge drawback, lots of us saw a 10/10 for 5 and were determined to figure out how to make it work. The interesting thing about Magic design is that things don’t necessarily need to have a pre-determined purpose. A lot of cards have very simple ones (like “bear with set mechanic”, or removal spells), but there can be big splashy rares that are functionally incomplete, even if nothing or very little already exists to complete them. Magic designers can make half a puzzle, without needing to have the other half in mind, or even it existing yet.
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Jun 16, 2023 20:49
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I went over every single Magic card ever printed trying to find a way to give Illusions of Grandeur to an opponent. Donate would be printed shortly after I stopped playing for a long time.
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Jun 16, 2023 21:52
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I went over every single Magic card ever printed trying to find a way to give Illusions of Grandeur to an opponent. Now there's Harmless Offering, Zedruu, and a card or two I'm probably forgetting.
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Jun 16, 2023 22:07
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I picked up the necron warhammer deck because it was in my amazon cart and i placed an unrelated order. I know there's some good unique cards in this thing, but if i wanted to do a budget upgrade to the precon what are a few of the biggest impact changes to make?
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Jun 16, 2023 23:07
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Batterypowered7 posted:Now there's Harmless Offering, Zedruu, and a card or two I'm probably forgetting.  Bazaar Trader if you can make it an artifact or creature.
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Jun 16, 2023 23:17
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Magnetic North posted:
Liuqimetal Torque and Coating to the rescue.
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Jun 16, 2023 23:33
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Played two games of pauper commander last night. We had five players at the table so to keep things from turning into too much of a battlecruiser slog, we played Star Commander (a player wins when the two players across the table from them are eliminated, regardless of the player's neighbors). In game one I slammed Trash Princess Zada into both opponents at once on turn five and just about killed both of them: T1: land T2: land, mana rock T3: land, Kiln Fiend T4: land, Seething Song, Zada, Make Mischief (targeting Zada to make 2 Satyr tokens) T5: Accelerate (drawing four cards), land, Gorilla Shaman, Kick in the Door (+1/+1 counter and haste everyone, and finishing a dungeon for a scry, draw, token, and +1/+1 counter), Infuriate, Downhill Charge (sac'ing a mountain), Lightning Bolt a potential blocker, swing in with something like 60 total power. The only thing that saved them was that I didn't pull any trample or menace effects in all of that. Flattened a couple blockers and still maimed both of my opponents. I ran out of gas finishing off one of them and another player won a couple turns later. Zada was the fastest at the table, but all of the decks were faster than I expected at this power level. It was a great time and I highly recommend trying it. 10/10 Trash Princess A+++ 
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Jun 16, 2023 23:52
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Batterypowered7 posted:Liuqimetal Torque and Coating to the rescue. There’s also Blim, Comedic Genius is you have B/R in your deck and he’s in your 99.
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Jun 17, 2023 02:47
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Does Kirkwood Bats trigger on Amassing or only on initial army token created?
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Jun 17, 2023 03:19
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Khanstant posted:Does Kirkwood Bats trigger on Amassing or only on initial army token created? Amassing doesn't create a new token if there's already a army token in play. It just adds +1/+1 counters, so no.
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Jun 17, 2023 03:25
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Right on, that's how we played it. LotR set 4 player limited review: pretty fun, amass seems good.
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Jun 17, 2023 03:45
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So, I pulled Tom during the LOTR prerelease and have decided to break down my in-progress Go-Shintai deck and repurpose it into Tom, since I feel like even with the initial push WUBRG Shrines is still gonna be more popular long-term and I like doing less popular stuff.  However, that means that I now have a copy of Parallel Lives to stick into one of my existing decks, but I'm having trouble deciding which will be more impactful, Gimbal or Rocco. I already have a copy of Primal Vigor in Rocco but with the new LOTR set (specifically, the food precon, which I also nabbed) I feel like having an extra doubler can't hurt... but also getting double the Gimbal tokens each end step also seems like it could be pretty strong (not to mention double thopters, double tokens off the artifact copy spells, etc)... and I'm not about to buy a second copy of a $60 card so that's obviously not an option Any thoughts?
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Jun 18, 2023 19:12
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Shaving 25 bucks off pauper deck order by cutting all the snow lands lol. They should really just print snow lands now and then on any plain that has some snowy areas.
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Jun 18, 2023 21:52
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Khanstant posted:Shaving 25 bucks off pauper deck order by cutting all the snow lands lol. They should really just print snow lands now and then on any plain that has some snowy areas. Kaldheim Snow-Covered lands are between $0.17 and $0.70 a piece. How much cheaper do you want them?! Lol
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Jun 18, 2023 22:02
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Mix. posted:So, I pulled Tom during the LOTR prerelease and have decided to break down my in-progress Go-Shintai deck and repurpose it into Tom, since I feel like even with the initial push WUBRG Shrines is still gonna be more popular long-term and I like doing less popular stuff. I like it in Gimbal, just because those gremlins can become huge threats, so making twice as many is a positive. And I assume since it’s a Gimbal deck that it wants (and can use) a ton of different artifact tokens anyway, so making more of them can’t hurt.
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Jun 18, 2023 22:43
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Batterypowered7 posted:Kaldheim Snow-Covered lands are between $0.17 and $0.70 a piece. How much cheaper do you want them?! Lol The ones TCGPlayer kept pushing were more in the .70-1 range but that might be a moxfield import and optimizer thing but I always turn off any toggle to hopefully just get the cheapest any quality printing. Basics are essentially free and we were trying to keep it relatively cheap. I have a few spare snow lands around and infinity normal basics, the deck doesn't actually need snow so I just cut em out of the order rather than go digging for a better deal. I wouldn't personally mind if snow lands were as common as normal basics, but it's very likely I'm ignoring some aspect of why that wouldn't be a good idea.
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Jun 18, 2023 23:08
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There's a tension for building Lord of the Nazgul in that running the actual Nazgul would be helpful but that's 9 slots in a deck that wants to be slinging spells. But if you just rely on the commander, you're putting a lot of eggs in that one basket. I guess I want a credible alternative way to win, and I don't want it to be Oracle/Consultation because that's boring as hell (and ideally I'd like this other win condition to not be cards that are just dead outside of their narrow combo.) Any suggestions?
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Jun 21, 2023 00:12
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Nehru the Damaja posted:There's a tension for building Lord of the Nazgul in that running the actual Nazgul would be helpful but that's 9 slots in a deck that wants to be slinging spells. Well if you put in 33 counterspells, then it's very safe to keep all your eggs in one basket. E: You get black, so toss in Dash Hopes for the hell of it, and that black enchantment that counters green spells.
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Jun 21, 2023 00:17
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Withering Boon for a black counterspell will usually shock someone.
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Jun 21, 2023 00:23
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I guess I missed when they revealed the Masters Commander decks from later this year but the Abzan commander Anikthea seems pretty bad. Replenish is cheaper to play and seems like it would do a hell of a lot more. The Eldrazi commander I don't know how to gauge how easy it is for an Eldrazi deck to get the heaps of mana for everything.
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Jun 21, 2023 00:25
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There are so many ways to ramp in colorless, soo soooooo many Colorless is probably the next best ramp "color" after green Edit: permanent ramp, not rituals you "b-b-but red!" pedants
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Jun 21, 2023 01:46
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I *think* white's passed up colorless now for land ramp. It's not just the catch-up ramp either; white also has ways to put permanents in play from the 'yard (Brought Back, Sevinne's Reclaimation), it has some weird oddball ramp options (Restoration of Eiganjo, Legion's Landing), it has a ton of ways to draw lands (which isn't ramp precisely but it makes it easier not to miss land drops), and it has a lot of synergy with some of that colorless ramp that the other colors lack (equipment). Colorless is definitely better than the other three though.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:47
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Khanstant posted:I guess I missed when they revealed the Masters Commander decks from later this year but the Abzan commander Anikthea seems pretty bad. Replenish is cheaper to play and seems like it would do a hell of a lot more. The Eldrazi commander I don't know how to gauge how easy it is for an Eldrazi deck to get the heaps of mana for everything. i dunno im kind of excited to make a combat stax deck where i beat you to death with my stax pieces not to mention the fact that because they're token copies they can get doubled with stuff like doubling season, parallel lives, anointed procession, so even if you don't go stax you could get double sagas, double beastmaster ascension, double value enchantments like font of fertility or seal of doom, not even getting into goofy poo poo like song of the worldsoul
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Jun 21, 2023 02:48
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Mix. posted:i dunno im kind of excited to make a combat stax deck where i beat you to death with my stax pieces Ohhh okay, I was stuck thinking I'd rather just mill and replenish type effects all at once but all the craziest toys are legendary so getting dupes is cool. Actually played a Shared Souls Blade combo deck in Arena standard a few months ago that I thought might be fun in commander. Kind of the same idea.
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Jun 21, 2023 03:06
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Batterypowered7 posted:Well if you put in 33 counterspells, then it's very safe to keep all your eggs in one basket. Dash Hopes is a cheap conditional Lava Axe that can never get lethal, though. It's just disguised as a counterspell.
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Jun 21, 2023 03:32
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orangelex44 posted:I *think* white's passed up colorless now for land ramp. It's not just the catch-up ramp either; white also has ways to put permanents in play from the 'yard (Brought Back, Sevinne's Reclaimation), it has some weird oddball ramp options (Restoration of Eiganjo, Legion's Landing), it has a ton of ways to draw lands (which isn't ramp precisely but it makes it easier not to miss land drops), and it has a lot of synergy with some of that colorless ramp that the other colors lack (equipment). I meant rocks, cost reducers and lands that tap for more than one mana. Colorless can crank out ridiculous amounts of mana crazy quick, since you've got the best mana rocks (sol ring, vault, crypt, both monoliths), the mana rocks that make CC (sisay's ring, ur-golem's eye, Hedron archive, ichor elixir, stonespeaker crystal, thran dynamo, worn powerstone), cost reducers like Ugin, The Ineffable, Forsaken Monument and Helm of Awakening, and lands like Ancient Tomb, Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple Ironically you lose arcane signet since colorless isn't a color
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Jun 21, 2023 03:51
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Silhouette posted:I meant rocks, cost reducers and lands that tap for more than one mana. Colorless can crank out ridiculous amounts of mana crazy quick, since you've got the best mana rocks (sol ring, vault, crypt, both monoliths), the mana rocks that make CC (sisay's ring, ur-golem's eye, Hedron archive, ichor elixir, stonespeaker crystal, thran dynamo, worn powerstone), cost reducers like Ugin, The Ineffable, Forsaken Monument and Helm of Awakening, and lands like Ancient Tomb, Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple Shrine of the Forsaken Gods, the Tron lands (now with Urza's Workshop!), Cloudpost if you copy it with Vesuva and Thespian's Stage. So many lands that tap for two. Lmao, imagine playing a Scorched Ruins and having someone Strip Mine you.
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Jun 21, 2023 05:17
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Batterypowered7 posted:
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Jun 21, 2023 07:43
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New Lotr stuff: Galadriel of lothlorien seems like it can generate some value + landfall triggers. Not sure best way to win in u/g though. Craterhoof? Frodo and Sam partners can have a silly food hulk pile with samewise gamgee, cauldron familiar, a sac outlet, and whatever you want for protection. Sméagol sounds great, but then I realized everyone will hate me for stealing lands. Wish one of the Eowyn was better as she’s a cool lady.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:19
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If I wanted to make a budget Tom Bombadil deck, what would an actual Wincon be for Sagas? Have a power conduit out when Kiora Bests the Sea God hits the field and just stall while making an army of 8/8s? Repeatedly nuke everyone's landbase with Fall of the Thran until people give up?
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Jun 21, 2023 17:46
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