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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I know it's not news on the big scale but on a lighter note!- my wife's best friend's brother who lost his leg fighting for Ukraine is up to being able to sprint on a new prosthetic. Hell yeah. Not that long ago docs didn't know if he could ever even walk again. i guess if one good thing came out of the iraq war it was spurring the development of some astounding prosthetic limbs. glad to hear a bit of good news
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Jun 21, 2023 21:14
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Ideally trench clearing involves coming to a bend in the trench, throwing a grenade or three into the next section, and as soon as they explode turning the corner while firing at anything and everything moving. Rinse and repeat.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:17
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the video really underscores how random death in war is, how quick it can come, and how awful it all ultimately is
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Jun 21, 2023 21:19
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How does this happen: https://twitter.com/AlexRaptor94/status/1671597005590900736 (Also if it's a B3 it's a capture, I think...)
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Jun 21, 2023 21:22
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I watched that trench clearing video and it was gruesome as hell. I don't remember if the red bearded guy was carrying a weapon? I don't want to watch it again to find out. Because if he was, well milblogger or not that's all fair game.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:24
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OddObserver posted:How does this happen: you know how sometimes a motorist panics and accidentally reverse up onto the curb? it's like that but instead of a car it's a tank and instead of a curb it's a ten foot tall armored transport
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Jun 21, 2023 21:26
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The driver in a tank has dogshit visibility and sits on an engine that is quite powerful. Not a great combination.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:28
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The guy also posted the footage from the Russian drone which doesn't really explain a whole lot: https://twitter.com/AlexRaptor94/status/1671600006275518464?cxt=HHwWgMC-yazW27IuAAAA Maybe the tank was pushing the MRAP and then it got stuck so pushing became drive over? But if the crew survives being under fire it's overall a win.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:34
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Hmm, I know it doesn't have much speed in reverse but I guess it probably has plenty of torque?
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Jun 21, 2023 21:35
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WarpedLichen posted:The guy also posted the footage from the Russian drone which doesn't really explain a whole lot: It looks like they are reversing under fire and the tank didn't realise the mrap was literally right behind.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:37
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Charliegrs posted:I watched that trench clearing video and it was gruesome as hell. I don't remember if the red bearded guy was carrying a weapon? I don't want to watch it again to find out. Because if he was, well milblogger or not that's all fair game. I’ll save you the trouble, yes he had a weapon and yes he had it at the ready. Almost all the Russians in video did.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:40
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Also it doesn't matter. Not having a weapon in hand doesn't make you a non-combatant. Though picking up one can. Medics and I think chaplains are non-combatants, and if they want to retain that status don't carry weapons.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:57
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The literal frontline trench is not the place to litigate who is and is not a combatant, even if mister milblogger man was unarmed. It's the same if Iraqi troops would shoot an embedded journalist in the US Forces. It is not reasonable in a war to demand that a combatant figures out who specifically the guy wearing a helmet, vest, and some sort of uniform is among the enemy troops.
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Jun 21, 2023 22:17
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I know it's not news on the big scale but on a lighter note!- my wife's best friend's brother who lost his leg fighting for Ukraine is up to being able to sprint on a new prosthetic. Hell yeah. Not that long ago docs didn't know if he could ever even walk again. Fantastic news, that's a legendary amounts of courage and perseverance. I seriously doubt my ability to adapt and keep going if something that traumatic happened to me. Regarding the trench video, I concur that anyone that thinks there's any chance they might be triggered, or even has trauma of any sort in their life, do not look for this video. You see the white's of this man's eyes before he is killed. I've had a very peaceful life and an extremely calm personality, which probably has something to do with how I can watch this and not have an episode. I don't need to watch this stuff but I want to understand what people are living through going through this conflict, but if a lifelong soldier said they didn't need to see this imagery I wouldn't argue with them.
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Jun 21, 2023 22:22
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Vahakyla posted:The literal frontline trench is not the place to litigate who is and is not a combatant, even if mister milblogger man was unarmed. It's the same if Iraqi troops would shoot an embedded journalist in the US Forces. It is not reasonable in a war to demand that a combatant figures out who specifically the guy wearing a helmet, vest, and some sort of uniform is among the enemy troops. Bloke who was shot was very much armed, just to be clear.
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Jun 21, 2023 22:37
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Yeah, if a war correspondent gets killed even though they've got a big PRESS on their vest it's tragic but like ... that's war and they knew what they were signing up for. Some blogger war-touristing to the front lines getting murked when they were dressed just like the soldiers isn't going to make me shed any tears.
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Jun 21, 2023 23:00
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So how many months will it likely be before we know how well the counteroffensive is going?
Willo567 fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 03:13
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Willo567 posted:So hoe mang months will it likely be before we know how well the counteroffensive is going? How the gently caress would anyone in this thread know that? The answer is "we don't know" just like the last time you and your soon-to-be-nuked balls asked this sort of question not even three weeks ago. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 03:45
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Nothing much, what's hoe mang with you?
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Jun 22, 2023 03:49
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ranbo das posted:Ideally trench clearing involves coming to a bend in the trench, throwing a grenade or three into the next section, and as soon as they explode turning the corner while firing at anything and everything moving. Rinse and repeat. There's a new "ideally". It's having a couple of drones overhead with the operators calling in enemy locations in real time. Saves on grenades and ammo.
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Jun 22, 2023 03:56
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Willo567 posted:So hoe mang months will it likely be before we know how well the counteroffensive is going? My guess is a few years, since that can only be answered by understanding how Ukraine expected it to go and then comparing that to actual results.
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Jun 22, 2023 04:07
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It took from start of June to mid August for the entire focused might of the Allies in WW2 to break out of the beaches of France during the battle of Normandy. Not even reach Paris, just breakout from the coasts. It took Germany 2 months to force France to surrender. Both of these were relatively rapid and historically successful offensives with a background of contributing elements aiding the attacker. Ukraine routing Russia in Kharkiv was a historic success, even Kherson which was a much more controlled retreat was still a substantial success. The counteroffensive is on now, but there's still 90% of the story left to unfold ahead of us. Ukraine is pacing themselves extremely carefully because they have an uphill battle for months if not years ahead of them. No one knows how long this will take or how many times the tides will turn.
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Jun 22, 2023 04:27
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Bel Shazar posted:My guess is a few years, since that can only be answered by understanding how Ukraine expected it to go and then comparing that to actual results. Best answer. Though maybe not years. RUSI had access to high-level officials inside the Ukrainian military and produced a report that revealed a lot about the early days of the war from the Ukrainian perspective and expectations. e: came out about the 6 months after the start of the war.
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Jun 22, 2023 04:48
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Moon Slayer posted:Yeah, if a war correspondent gets killed even though they've got a big PRESS on their vest it's tragic but like ... that's war and they knew what they were signing up for. Some blogger war-touristing to the front lines getting murked when they were dressed just like the soldiers isn't going to make me shed any tears. I've managed to avoid watching that video and have only seen one or two stills, but he was clearly holding a rifle in those.
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Jun 22, 2023 05:35
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Unfortunate news for Ukraine - As much of 30 percent of Kyiv’s arsenal is under repair at any given time — a high rate, defense experts said, for a military that needs every weapon it can get for its developing counteroffensive. Furthermore, the government in Kyiv has grown weary of being told that it has enough Western weapons, when some arrive in poor or unusable condition, relegated from combat to be cannibalized for parts. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/19/world/europe/ukraine-weapons-howitzers-contracts.html New York Times In Rush to Arm Ukraine, Weapons Are Bought but Not Delivered, or Too Broken to Use By Justin Scheck and Lara Jakes Reporting from Kyiv, Ukraine, and Rome June 19, 2023 Ukraine has paid contractors hundreds of millions of dollars for weapons that have not been delivered, and some of the much-publicized arms donated by its allies have been so decrepit that they were deemed fit only to be cannibalized for spare parts. Ukrainian government documents show that as of the end of last year, Kyiv had paid arms suppliers more than $800 million since the Russian invasion in February 2022 for contracts that went completely or partly unfulfilled. Two people involved in Ukraine’s arms purchasing said that some of the missing weapons had eventually been delivered, and that in other cases brokers had refunded the money. But as of early this spring, hundreds of millions of dollars had been paid — including to state-owned companies — for arms never materialized, one of these people said. “We did have cases where we paid money and we didn’t receive,” Volodymyr Havrylov, a deputy defense minister working on arms procurement, said in a recent interview. He said the government this year had begun analyzing its past purchases and excluding problematic contractors. Many of the transfers from Western allies have involved modern weapons like American air defense systems that have proven highly effective against Russian drones and missiles. But in other cases allies have provided stockpiled equipment that, at best, needed extensive overhauls. As much of 30 percent of Kyiv’s arsenal is under repair at any given time — a high rate, defense experts said, for a military that needs every weapon it can get for its developing counteroffensive. ... A recent delivery of 33 self-propelled howitzers donated by the Italian government provides a case in point. Videos showed smoke billowing from the engine of one, and engine coolant leaking from another. Italy’s Defense Ministry said in a statement that the vehicles had been decommissioned years ago but that Ukraine had asked for them anyway, “to be overhauled and put into operation, given the urgent need for means to face the Russian aggression.” Ukrainian government documents show that its Defense Ministry paid $19.8 million to an American arms dealer, the Tampa-based Ultra Defense Corporation, to have the 33 howitzers repaired. In January, 13 of those howitzers were shipped to Ukraine but arrived “not suitable for combat missions,” according to one of the documents. Officials in Kyiv accused the American company of failing to finish a job that was supposed to be completed by late December. “The American company, offering its services, had no prior intention to fulfill its obligations,” Ukraine’s defense procurement director, Volodymyr Pikuzo, wrote in a Feb. 3 letter to the Pentagon’s inspector general. Matthew Herring, the company’s chief executive, strongly denied the accusation. “Every single one of them worked when we delivered them,” he wrote in a text message this month, saying that the Ukrainians had not properly maintained the howitzers after they were handed over. That included the one with a coolant leak, which he said had “magically appeared after delivery in Ukraine.” ... Ukrainian officials have mostly refrained from complaining about broken equipment, so as not to embarrass their benefactors. “There were issues of quality to some of the howitzers, but we have to keep in mind that it was a gift,” Mr. Havrylov said. But the government in Kyiv has grown weary, another senior Ukrainian official said, of being told that it has enough Western weapons, when some arrive in poor or unusable condition, relegated from combat to be cannibalized for parts. ... The documents obtained by The New York Times, generated by a government audit this year, showed that some of the most valuable sets of undelivered contracts are between the Defense Ministry and state-owned Ukrainian arms companies that function as independent brokers. In recent months, the ministry has sued at least two of those state firms over unfulfilled contracts, and Ukraine recently announced overhauls aimed at making those companies more efficient. ... There have been problems with Western-donated equipment as well, which contributed to some of its being delivered so belatedly or unpredictably as to complicate planning for Ukraine’s counteroffensive. A Pentagon inspector general’s report released in late May illustrates some of the problems. Last summer, an American Army unit was ordered to ship 29 Humvees to Ukraine from a depot at Camp Arifjan, a base in Kuwait. Although the unit’s leaders had previously said that all but one of the Humvees were “fully mission capable,” an initial inspection after the orders were received revealed that 26 of them were too broken for combat, according to the Pentagon report. By late August, contractors had repaired transmissions, dead batteries, fluid leaks, broken lights, door latches and seatbelts on the Humvees, and reported that all 29 were ready for Ukraine. The work was verified by the Army unit in Kuwait. But when the Humvees reached a staging base in Poland, officials found that the tires on 25 of them were rotten. It took nearly a month to find enough replacement tires, which “delayed the shipment of other equipment to Ukraine and required significant labor and time,” the Pentagon report found. ... The same Army unit in Kuwait was also supposed to send six M777 howitzers to Ukraine just weeks after the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion. As it turned out, however, the howitzers “required extensive maintenance” before they could be shipped, because they had gone without regular service checks for 19 months, the Pentagon report found. At least one was in such bad shape that it “would have killed somebody” trying to use it, inspectors concluded in March 2022. Three months later, the howitzers had been repaired and shipped to the staging center in Poland. But officials there still concluded that all six “had faults that made them non-mission capable,” the Pentagon audit found. They were repaired in Poland before being sent to Ukraine. ... Some weapons systems are either so scarce or so vulnerable to breaking down that Ukraine has welcomed at least some of the faulty Western equipment as a source of parts. In January, Britain’s defense secretary, Ben Wallace, announced the planned transfer of self-propelled AS-90 howitzers to Ukraine, including some in “varying states of readiness.” Twelve required Ukraine “to either refurbish or exploit for spares,” the British Defense Ministry said in a statement in March. The senior Ukrainian official confirmed that they were needed to supply spare parts for others.
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Jun 22, 2023 05:50
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I really don't think from a messaging perspective that Zelensky pushes the "were fighting this war so you don't have to" angle hard enough. I know it's kind of implicit but it deserves explicating. It doesn't even really have to be true
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Jun 22, 2023 08:31
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ukraine used a storm shadow to hit the chonhar bridgequote:Ukrainian missiles struck the Chonhar road bridge connecting Crimea with Russian-held parts of the southern Kherson region overnight, forcing traffic to be diverted to a different route, Russian-appointed officials said on Thursday. looks like a decent sized hole, but each direction of traffic has its own bridge so even if one bridge is down for a while hard to see it impacting the flow of supplies to melitopol to a significant degree. though i suppose you never know what extra bit of friction might make a difference
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Jun 22, 2023 08:31
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Failed Imagineer posted:I really don't think from a messaging perspective that Zelensky pushes the "were fighting this war so you don't have to" angle hard enough. I know it's kind of implicit but it deserves explicating. It doesn't even really have to be true It's difficult to push the narrative of "Ukraine is fighting this war so the rest of Europe / NATO doesn't have to", when the generally-accepted view is that every single aspect of the Russian military is utterly awful (conscript or convict troops with bad training and worse morale, outdated equipment that is maintained poorly, rotten generalship, screwed-up logistics, and all these issues worsened by pervasive corruption), since this implies (or is sometimes expressly stated) that any Russian forces that dared attack an actual NATO country would be swiftly and easily crushed. quote:https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/17/politics/russia-military-ukraine-what-matters/index.html quote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/17/russia-military-failing-dangerous/ quote:https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/04/30/how-rotten-is-russias-army quote:https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russia-ukraine-invasion-military-predictions/629418/ quote:https://theweek.com/briefing/1013495/why-the-russian-army-just-isnt-very-good quote:https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/is-the-russian-military-a-paper-tiger quote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/18/russia-military-underperforming-ukraine quote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/opinion/russia-army-ukraine.html quote:https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3727910-the-russian-armys-trouble-runs-deep/ quote:https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/human-wave-tactics-are-demoralizing-the-russian-army-in-ukraine/ quote:https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukrainian-victory-shatters-russias-reputation-as-a-military-superpower/
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Jun 22, 2023 08:54
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fizzy posted:It's difficult to push the narrative of "Ukraine is fighting this war so the rest of Europe / NATO doesn't have to", when the generally-accepted view is that every single aspect of the Russian military is utterly awful (conscript or convict troops with bad training and worse morale, outdated equipment that is maintained poorly, rotten generalship, screwed-up logistics, and all these issues worsened by pervasive corruption), since this implies (or is sometimes expressly stated) that any Russian forces that dared attack an actual NATO country would be swiftly and easily crushed. Yeah I don't disagree, that's basically why I said "it doesn't have to be true". I think it's an easy propaganda point that can be sold to domestic audiences in allied countries, and debunking it requires a level of granularity that the average punter won't access
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Jun 22, 2023 08:57
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah I don't disagree, that's basically why I said "it doesn't have to be true". I think it's an easy propaganda point that can be sold to domestic audiences in allied countries, and debunking it requires a level of granularity that the average punter won't access Zelensky has pushed and is continuing to push that message on a regular basis and in a variety of channels, though. quote:https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky-warns-nato-will-be-attacked-next-as-russian-offensive-aims-westward/ quote:https://www.newsweek.com/volodymyr-zelensky-vladimir-putin-russia-possible-nato-attack-1720327 quote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianb...sh=6a64bcb605f7 quote:https://www.npr.org/live-updates/russia-ukraine-war-anniversary quote:https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/fact-check-zelensky-americans-fighting-ukraine-video/index.html quote:https://www.axios.com/2022/05/23/zelensky quote:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-counteroffensive-zelenskyy-interview-russia-lose-war-rcna89022 fizzy fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 09:11
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fizzy posted:It's difficult to push the narrative of "Ukraine is fighting this war so the rest of Europe / NATO doesn't have to", when the generally-accepted view is that every single aspect of the Russian military is utterly awful (conscript or convict troops with bad training and worse morale, outdated equipment that is maintained poorly, rotten generalship, screwed-up logistics, and all these issues worsened by pervasive corruption), since this implies (or is sometimes expressly stated) that any Russian forces that dared attack an actual NATO country would be swiftly and easily crushed. I don't see why these view points are mutually exclusive. 1. If Russia had rolled Ukraine in 3 days would they have trotted back to Moscow job done? Or would we be worrying about escalating tensions in Estonia currently? 2. Does any government in Europe want to militarily "crush" Russia? Or would they rather Russia hosed off and stopped being an imperialistic gently caress nugget? Russia incompetently ramming its army into a meatgrinder is a welcome outcome rather than an outright aim.
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Jun 22, 2023 09:31
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fizzy posted:Zelensky has pushed and is continuing to push that message on a regular basis and in a variety of channels, though. Well alright then 
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Jun 22, 2023 09:36
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Failed Imagineer posted:I really don't think from a messaging perspective that Zelensky pushes the "were fighting this war so you don't have to" angle hard enough. I know it's kind of implicit but it deserves explicating. It doesn't even really have to be true The issue is that everyone else is under NATO umbrella and everyone knows Putin would never test article 5 unless NATO was in a state of disarray that is way beyond the foreseeable perspective (like, it would take a decade of Trumpian erosion and racketeering). Furthermore, I think Europe (barring Poland on their current rearming shopping spree) would not be thrilled thinking about Russia as existential civilizational enemy that would require pure military means to curb for years to come. This war will not spill over so Europe is mostly interested in putting out the fire right now. Also that rhetoric would not fly that well when heard at home because becoming a permanently militarized state-fortress is not a winnable politically vision of the future.
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Jun 22, 2023 09:37
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hitchensgoespop posted:I don't see why these view points are mutually exclusive. Zelensky is trying to make the point that Ukraine is doing a great service for the NATO countries by fighting against Russia's military in Ukraine, and therefore NATO should reciprocate by (further) providing funds and arms. However, (the general view promulgated by the media is that) Russia's military is completely pathetic and NATO's military is overwhelmingly stronger. In which case, how much benefit is NATO actually deriving from Ukraine fighting Russia? If Ukraine wins, great for them. If Ukraine loses, no big deal for the NATO countries, since Russia would easily lose to NATO's forces if Russia subsequently went on to attack into a NATO member country. So in the scenario (1) described in your post above, NATO and Western Europe would not be worrying about escalating tensions in Estonia currently, because NATO would easily defeat the Russian military if it dared step foot onto Estonian soil or otherwise attacked Estonia. And that is how the media message of "Russia's military is utter trash" is working against Zelensky's message of "Ukraine is fighting over there so NATO doesn't have to fight over here".
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Jun 22, 2023 09:45
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If Russia would have rolled Ukraine in 3 days then it would not be the pathetic clown show it currently is, but an army capable of overtaking and occupying a country the size of Germany and Poland combined with a 40+ million people in less than a week. That would have been a show of competence, no matter how badly maintained their gear was. And it would be foolish to think or even expect that had Putin conquered Ukraine he would have stopped; more plausible scenario is that even if Russia ends up being kicked out or Ukraine completely, they just recover for 5-6 years and try again somewhere else. But its not going to be Baltics, Finland or Sweden then, its going to be somewhere in the Inner Asia where NATO and EU does not reach that well.
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Jun 22, 2023 10:19
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fizzy posted:
You've reduced an extremely nuanced situation to a binary decision, congrats.
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Jun 22, 2023 10:29
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Der Kyhe posted:But its not going to be Baltics, Finland or Sweden then, its going to be somewhere in the Inner Asia where NATO and EU does not reach that well. China would love that
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Jun 22, 2023 10:30
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Der Kyhe posted:But its not going to be Baltics, Finland or Sweden then, its going to be somewhere in the Inner Asia where NATO and EU does not reach that well. Tokaev had great sense to immediately seek China protection after using CSTO to quell the Kazakhstan riots
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Jun 22, 2023 10:42
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Zelensky says that Russia is preparing a terrorist plot at ZPP to release radiation https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1671805650106474497 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 22, 2023 11:07
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Willo567 posted:Zelensky says that Russia is preparing a terrorist plot at ZPP to release radiation IAEA mission is present at ZPP so I'd rather listen to them regarding anything happening there.
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Jun 22, 2023 11:12
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