|
What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| 🦋 |
|
15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
|
115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
|
12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
|
67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
|
94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
|
14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
|
87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
|
Weka posted:Lol. For some reason I can't paste at the moment but if you care to look up the 2019 Chicago Council's survey of American foreign policy beliefs you will see this is not the case. what I'm seeing in that survey is exactly why I said Americans "think" they're anti-war propaganda runs so deep that you can be situationally supportive of all sorts of action and involvement and still pretend you're not into war or imperialism it's just another factor in how deeply compromised a population can be against any sort of movement for anti-imperialism If you had to build an anti-war movement in the US today, are you worse off with the typical left-lib at the core of it or an incoherent Trump supporter? I know there was a stupidly dense flurry of posts about American poverty, but I already made it clear several times that the point about poverty is that the US having poverty rates that are abysmal by first world metrics, and even fall farther than that in many ways, is a good tell that being #1 at imperialism has never been about enriching anyone who doesn't belong to the club domestically, which makes a one note approach to what feeds said imperialism a very flawed one
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:59 |
|
|
stephenthinkpad posted:So I got nothing to add to the imperial project chat except that in this war, in my POV the state capture of the media is more blatant than other US imperial wars, IME anyway. I vaguely recall Gulf War 2, and from my memory the only difference between the media blitz then and now is the level of pervasiveness of the propaganda, but I think thats more a function of the change in technology over the years. All the major news sources went along with the WMD story and there was a supporting blitz about how Saddam and his kids were made out of condensed hell energy. Hans Blix, the UN weapons inspector, was held up as an object of ridicule. You could get a differing opinion on fringe sources like the internet or the Daily Show, but if I recall correctly the major news sources were mostly arguing over how hard we should invade as opposed to whether or not it was a good idea. I remember the Shock and Awe coverage on TV with constant images of cities getting obliterated by a barrage of missiles Iraq had no hope of countering. It was wild. I have even more vague memories of Gulf War 1. I was a very small child at the time but the messaging was so pervasive that apparently I dated all my classwork with 'X days til war' because they kept airing that countdown to whatever deadline. In retrospect thats a pretty hosed thing for a child to fixate on. Anyways, no, theres nothing particularly special about Ukraine war coverage compared to previous wars except the technology used to deliver the blaring blanket of propaganda across every major outlet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:15
|
|
|
6 pages of pointless moralization. Americans aren't desperate enough to sacrifice their lives opposing the government. That's it, that's why people aren't willing to fight. Is it good? Is it bad? Are citizens guilty for supporting their government? Who cares. Americans will follow their leaders until doing so threatens their lives, usually by hunger, repression, or conscription.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:20
|
|
|
The337th posted:I know there was a stupidly dense flurry of posts about American poverty, but I already made it clear several times that the point about poverty is that the US having poverty rates that are abysmal by first world metrics, and even fall farther than that in many ways, is a good tell that being #1 at imperialism has never been about enriching anyone who doesn't belong to the club domestically, which makes a one note approach to what feeds said imperialism a very flawed one It doesn't have to be about that to do it and I don't think anyone has suggested the actions of the American working class are the only or even the major cause of imperialism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:24
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/lefttwick/status/1671561108149379072
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:25
|
|
|
there is far more nominal congressional support for biden's ukranian war than the second gulf war, with literally zero dissent among the liberal-left a majority of house democrats voted against the 2nd gulf war!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
Weka posted:It doesn't have to be about that to do it and I don't think anyone has suggested the actions of the American working class are the only or even the major cause of imperialism. again, the basis of this was the idea being thrown around that the average American ideology (or lack of) towards their own imperialism was specific mindset, rather than a chaotic mess of different mindsets across class, racial, and regional lines that have been effectively managed for a long time now
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:33
|
|
|
yellowcar posted:the american hegemon is perpetuated by americans (directly or indirectly, with or without consent, it doesn't matter) that's just the facts Your honor, I can't be complicit in Jared Fogle's crimes because he made me do it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:34
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1671805650106474497 This reminds me of the old war on terror threat levels. People are gonna tune this out if you keep saying "this time for reals!". Cpt_Obvious posted:6 pages of pointless moralization. Americans aren't desperate enough to sacrifice their lives opposing the government. That's it, that's why people aren't willing to fight. Is it good? Is it bad? Are citizens guilty for supporting their government? Who cares. Americans couldn't even be assed to fight for the covid checks Biden snatched away and those would have directly benefited them!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:41
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1671805650106474497 loving love when a head of state uses twitter to send a message of sabotage they are going to do specifically to a group of people a world away.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:45
|
|
|
BadOptics posted:
Losing your job and related benefits like healthcare in the hope of maybe getting 600$? No wonder people didn't protest...
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:46
|
|
|
“If the role of the Hierarchy is to teach and to interpret authentically the norms of morality to be followed in this matter, it belongs to lay people, without waiting passively for orders and directives, to take the initiative freely and to infuse a Christian spirit into the mentality, customs, laws and structures of the community in which they live. Changes are necessary, basic reforms are indispensable: lay people should strive resolutely to permeate them with the spirit of the Gospel” (Paul VI, Populorum progressio, 81). Notice that you, personally, are not condemned because you live in the nation giving tanks to Azov. Just infuse a Marxist spirit into your daily life and sing 3 Internationales as penance.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:51
|
|
|
Zelenskyy is going to enjoy the cell next to Noriega
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:53
|
|
|
The337th posted:more Americans believing the propaganda in no way ever made the propaganda true, which is what I keep repeating to no avail This kind of feels like the inverse of the far right dorks who see advertisements from the 50s and cry "Thjs is what they took from us"
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:57
|
|
|
I am anti “this” war not anti war
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:57
|
|
|
It’s fairly well understood that Britain and the US bought of their working class through empire, certainly compared to other countries that had much more dangerous left wing movements.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 13:59
|
|
|
the new deal was explicitly buying off the white working class
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I am anti “this” war It's pretty obvious that Americans believe in military intervention as a force for good, which is why it's so easy to hook them along into supporting regime change in Venezuela (evil dictator) or the Nazis in Ukraine (
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
there are like 400 million Americans I don’t know of generalized statements work well
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:04
|
|
|
euphronius posted:the new deal was explicitly buying off the white working class So was the continuance of labor unions, which were 30% of the American workers at one point (1960) enough to help set a general wage floor. There was a massive divide in union membership from 1975 to 1985 from about 25% to 15% and it has been declining since. 1985 to 2006 or so, the economy had been supported by lower and lower interest rates until just before the Great Recession. Basically, it didn't happen at once but there was a buy in by white America into the project, and slowly but surely that advantage eroded away but not the emotional competent...clearly. euphronius posted:there are like 400 million Americans There are, but I think we don't have to pretend white-bred American suburbia was a thing of myth and legend since much of it still largely exists. It is just those who had access to the wealth of yesteryear who have largely declined. Yes it is true, that there was always parts of America in deep poverty and they were the target more often than not of the state itself. There were also many many Americans who always supported that state and what it was doing at home and abroad. I don't think they are intrinsically evil, but they needed to be there for the empire to work. Also, I am here for the people who actually think this is just a pointless derail that has nothing to do with the war or Ukraine. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:15 on Jun 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:07
|
|
|
Good news for Ukraine - Their counter-offensive will take time because they will do very smart, offensive operations. https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08657ec7320967 1h ago 12.49 BST Denys Shmygal, Ukraine’s prime minister, on Thursday warned that his country’s counteroffensive against invading Russian forces “will take time” but said he was “optimistic” about its success, AFP reports. Speaking on the sidelines of a Ukraine reconstruction conference in London, he said: "We will do very smart, offensive operations. And because of this, it (the counter offensive) will take time. But we have the intention to move and go ahead. We are going to go ahead... and I’m absolutely optimistic for the liberation of all our lands occupied by Russians." Shmygal added that the counter-offensive “is a number of military operations. Sometimes it’s offensive. Sometimes it’s defensive”. “Unfortunately, during our preparation for this counter-offensive Russians were preparing too, so there are so many minefields, which really makes it slower to move,” he said. His comments came after Volodymyr Zelenskiy, Ukraine’s president, said in a BBC interview on Wednesday admitted that battlefield progress had been “slower than desired”. Ukraine has announced the liberation of only eight villages as a result of its two weeks of offensive operations with heavy mining and Russian air superiority proving to be a major obstacle to progress, my colleague Daniel Boffey reported on Wednesday.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:13
|
|
|
I enjoy the good news posts
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:14
|
|
|
euphronius posted:there are like 400 million Americans 400 million people live in the United States but that doesn't directly translate to 400 million "Americans," if that makes any sense. You have to meaningfully be a part of the national body politic to become a fully idealized "citizen." The issue of identity got brought up before but nobody picked up on the fact that there are subject populations within the United States relegated to internal colonies. This is what charts and figures on poverty and property ownership rates won't show. Those facts are still overly generalized. I kept bringing up the American electorate and its responsibilities, because the American electorate is a PROPERTIED class that has an objective interest which determines their political actions & beliefs. This is a petit bourgeois country with PB values. Those values and that identity can only be meaningfully rejected by those who are outside of or beneath the thumb of the system - but that still leaves at least 1/3 of the country who is meaningfully engaged with the system and meaningfully "American."
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
So how does Russia keep allowing carbombs to blow up damns in their occupation territory? Do they not have guys stationed there?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:25
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:So how does Russia keep allowing carbombs to blow up damns in their occupation territory? Do they not have guys stationed there? they were on smoko
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:25
|
|
|
Meow Tse-tung posted:I saw this in the south a lot. Bubbles of poverty and middle class suburbia side by side and usually keeping separate. It felt like driving while black was used as a cudgel constantly in the middle class areas. Maybe the minorities in the simpsons didn't live in homer's neighborhood You can see this in New England. Drive along the interstate highways and you'll see hovel after hovel, punctuated by enormous farm estates and mansions with names like "Golden Overlook".
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:29
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I enjoy the good news posts yeah its nice to know that at least some good things are happening
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 14:50
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:I vaguely recall Gulf War 2, and from my memory the only difference between the media blitz then and now is the level of pervasiveness of the propaganda, but I think thats more a function of the change in technology over the years. All the major news sources went along with the WMD story and there was a supporting blitz about how Saddam and his kids were made out of condensed hell energy. Hans Blix, the UN weapons inspector, was held up as an object of ridicule. You could get a differing opinion on fringe sources like the internet or the Daily Show, but if I recall correctly the major news sources were mostly arguing over how hard we should invade as opposed to whether or not it was a good idea. I remember the Shock and Awe coverage on TV with constant images of cities getting obliterated by a barrage of missiles Iraq had no hope of countering. It was wild. John Stewart supported the war on the daily show and called the protesters stupid dope smokers. SNL equated the protesters with child molesters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:01
|
|
|
There is no political left in the West anymore. Once the Soviet Union collapsed, capital was free to go full masks off, though capital had been fighting tooth and nail since the early 20th century when left/labor movements started popping up. In the US, the end came with the Clinton presidency. There was a time in the late 90s/early 00s, when the internet first became widespread, where things looked brighter. Capital hadn't figured out how to subvert and control the internet because it was so new, so you had free dissemination of information. That is completely loving over now; capital fully owns and controls the flow of information on the internet. The only reason we can post freely here is because we don't matter. The left was defeated in the west. Its dead. It does not exist. If it tries to exist, it will be killed in the cradle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:07
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:13
|
|
|
Not doomed. Dead. Gone. Doomed implies that the doomed thing still exists.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:17
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:In Umberto Eco's Baudolino, within the Kingdom of Prester John there are a group of moors so devoted to God that they want nothing more than martyrdom. Baudolino and his companions think they will be the perfect soldiers against the White Huns, dying fearlessly for their faith. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUHk2RSMCS8
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:24
|
|
|
Pener is right
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:26
|
|
|
America was in a frenzy after 9/11 and the propaganda and attitudes surrounding the Ukraine war are an absolute drop in the bucket compared the insane bloodthirst of the early 2000s
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:28
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:America was in a frenzy after 9/11 and the propaganda and attitudes surrounding the Ukraine war are an absolute drop in the bucket compared the insane bloodthirst of the early 2000s where are the newgrounds putin games? that's when i know the imperialist war machine is in full mobilization
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:31
|
|
|
sum posted:The latest NAFO thing is taking Prigozhin at face value and thinking that Russia is secretly losing the counteroffensive. To their credit though only the most gullible ones seem to be buying it. The NAFO fellas sure are a credulous bunch aren't they The country that has no problem jailing journalists and opposition political leaders would surely allow a pmc general to undermine their authority for months
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:32
|
|
|
The US isn't all in part because there is an actual political split on Ukraine, during the early 2000s, everyone was on the hype-wagon except for whatever was left of the left.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:33
|
|
|
Prigozhin and Strelkov are both controlled opposition and/or psyops directed at credulous westerners.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:34
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:10 pages of Proddies struggling with render unto Caesar and original sin while the evil Russians plan to blow up their own nuclear plant, after blowing up their own dam, and Ukraine valiantly rides to the rescue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:59 |
|
|
OctaMurk posted:America was in a frenzy after 9/11 and the propaganda and attitudes surrounding the Ukraine war are an absolute drop in the bucket compared the insane bloodthirst of the early 2000s That's only because we're not aggrieved personally, though. By comparison the take on the Ukraine war is far more ideological, because people have to be convinced that there's some higher ideal or principle at stake and that the Russians will destroy everything that's good, or that Ukraine will be the first in a series of European dominoes falling to the unwoke
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 15:35
|
|