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(Thread IKs: harrygomm, Astryl)
 
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SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

The dungeons are minor variations of each other which is pretty lame. All of them can be reduced to: choose a tileset, choose 2 puzzles, choose two enemy types, maybe include a boss.

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MajorBonnet
May 28, 2009

How did I get here?
I've gotten tier 2 and 3 sigils in WT3. I'm not sure if they were from drops or Whisper caches, but I haven't done many NM dungeons so far. No issue with running higher tiers in WT3, but the highest tiers are WT4 only.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Jezza of OZPOS posted:

so to clarify something, do higher tier nightmare sigils drop from the tier 1 dungeons or am I supposed to be on WT4 before I can go any higher than tier one? I've done a few now and haven't seen a higher tier sigil drop and crafting is still locked at the occultist

WT3 will go all the way to tier 20. 21+ is on Torment / WT4

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Magitek posted:

You've got a weird definition of "endgame" or "viable" then. A very generous definition would be a spec that can clear NM tier 50 at level 100 with perfect gear, which would still be a fraction of the difficulty of a tier 100 NM dungeon. I was replying to a poster who was hardstuck with a thorns build against enemies that either do not attack or heal to full with every attack. Seems like a clear example of a spec that is not viable due to trap design decisions.

There's plenty of player abilities and uniques that have a poor fundamental design. Rupture is a great example. All it does is speed up existing damage that would have ticked over the next 5 seconds. Consuming DoTs isn't s new concept, but working off of short 5-second bleeds and with no multiplier means the ability doesn't actually contribute to damage in any meaningful way. And the ability has its own Unique sword which is similarly worthless.

Ultimately I think it's sufficient that an S-tier build be around one order of magnitude better than D-tier. As it stands, it's two or three orders of magnitude better. Buffs and redesigns would be very welcome.

end game viable: a build can do end game content.

more than viable: a build can do the hardest content in the game.

its fine to have stuff thats way better and way worse. thats more fun.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
in fact its good if theres poo poo thats just dogshit lol that rules. overbalancing is aids. simple as.

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
We'll see how this plays out when the first season launches. My reading of the renown issue is the side quests, side dungeons, and strongholds can be where you can go for leveling up to 50. It's going to be about getting into a party of four, keeping the elixir experience bonus active, and doing whatever it takes to beat the capstone dungeons early and quickly.

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012

boredsatellite posted:

don't expect too much from the first season though, i would be pleasantly surprised if it was anything substantial

I expect the opposite. The game right now released somewhat barebones and holding some juicy parts back from 1.0 to really sell people on a big season 1 (and seasons in general) seems right up Blizz alley.

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

Stux posted:

in fact its good if theres poo poo thats just dogshit lol that rules. overbalancing is aids. simple as.

Nah I like doing stuff a bunch of different ways. The more ways you can do it, the better imo

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
you can. theres nothing stopping you. theres nothing in the game that cant handle doing helltides and world bosses and whatever else. the only difference is what tier of nm dungeons you cap out at.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!
and thats the fun part. pushing some stupid idea to its limit and seeing where it can reach. if you already know everything can clear everything whats the point.

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

Philthy posted:

A cube, rune words, charms, and a helper buddy I can equip are all things I demand in Season 1.

And a functional horse that doesn't warp and get stuck on pebbles.

It's so weird that the horse can literally smash through wagons and walls and even the corpses of other horses, but gets stuck on the tiniest rock

I also demand a pet that picks up shards, essence, gold, gems if there's a gem bag. A configurable picker upper would be rad

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012

Stux posted:

and thats the fun part. pushing some stupid idea to its limit and seeing where it can reach. if you already know everything can clear everything whats the point.

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

It's fun! And it can be clearable, but harder than another build. If you like weak builds, no one is stopping you from taking stuff that doesn't synergize and pretending the devs did it for you lol

I like thinking that theres a guy at blizzard trying to figure out how which skills they should intentionally make weak so players have fun

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012

big cummers ONLY posted:

It's fun! And it can be clearable, but harder than another build. If you like weak builds, no one is stopping you from taking stuff that doesn't synergize and pretending the devs did it for you lol

I like thinking that theres a guy at blizzard trying to figure out how which skills they should intentionally make weak so players have fun

Its not about making something deliberately bad, its about turning something worse into something better

Time
Aug 1, 2011

It Was All A Dream
Has anyone had a ring of starless skies drop for them it seems badass

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010

by sebmojo
I haven’t seen a single high level caster Druid. I don’t want to be a poisonous wolf throwing tornadoes, or a giant bear causing the entire ground to shift. I want to be a fat guy who stands completely still, holds his hammer in the air and causes 75 billion lightning bolts on the screen. It hasn’t always been the most efficient way to play, but it sure is engaging and fun for me. I’m looking over all the paragon boards and deciding which aspects I need and which ones I want, trying to find a suitable balance of DPS, survivability and resource gen.

harrygomm
Oct 19, 2004

can u run n jump?
got to 93 so far. can comfortably carry a pal through T60 NM keys. what is the scaling for more players, is it 100% more health per player in the group? i don’t think i could really do enough damage for some affix types if that’s the case.

can’t wait to hit 100 so i don’t have to scrimp around with paragon points to unlock everything i want

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

American McGay posted:

I haven’t seen a single high level caster Druid. I don’t want to be a poisonous wolf throwing tornadoes, or a giant bear causing the entire ground to shift. I want to be a fat guy who stands completely still, holds his hammer in the air and causes 75 billion lightning bolts on the screen. It hasn’t always been the most efficient way to play, but it sure is engaging and fun for me. I’m looking over all the paragon boards and deciding which aspects I need and which ones I want, trying to find a suitable balance of DPS, survivability and resource gen.

I thought I was gonna go werebear, but the Druid character model is too good. So I went caster too

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

big cummers ONLY posted:

It's fun! And it can be clearable, but harder than another build. If you like weak builds, no one is stopping you from taking stuff that doesn't synergize and pretending the devs did it for you lol

I like thinking that theres a guy at blizzard trying to figure out how which skills they should intentionally make weak so players have fun

nah, letting builds cap out is good. every ability doesnt have to be able to do 100% of the content in an arpg. and they could stop players from doing that, its called diablo 3

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013

American McGay posted:

I haven’t seen a single high level caster Druid. I don’t want to be a poisonous wolf throwing tornadoes, or a giant bear causing the entire ground to shift. I want to be a fat guy who stands completely still, holds his hammer in the air and causes 75 billion lightning bolts on the screen. It hasn’t always been the most efficient way to play, but it sure is engaging and fun for me. I’m looking over all the paragon boards and deciding which aspects I need and which ones I want, trying to find a suitable balance of DPS, survivability and resource gen.



What are you using for your skill spread? This is pretty much what I'm doing and I keep getting perfect drops if I wanted to be a poison werewolf and I don't wanna do that. It's definitely not the smoothest process. There have been periods where I was humming along fine, but I'm trying to get a high lucky hit and a high crit rate both, and I've had to pass up a ton of good gloves because of that, just for example.

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are. You are destiny.


I hope companions aren't too many seasons away. I like having a buddy I can drag along with me. Bonus points if they let us have some degree of control over how they look, even if it's just armor pieces.

satanic splash-back
Jan 28, 2009

Black Griffon posted:

I hope companions aren't too many seasons away. I like having a buddy I can drag along with me. Bonus points if they let us have some degree of control over how they look, even if it's just armor pieces.

Friend there are 2/5 classes that already have that

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

I think they want one on classes that don't, too

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
It means they want a mercenary or follower

I R SMART LIKE ROCK
Mar 10, 2003

I just want a hug.

Fun Shoe

Star Man posted:

It means they want a mercenary or follower

100% and it's something I miss from d2 as well. it's not about how effective they are. it's about fashion points and matching outfits :swoon:

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010

by sebmojo
My homie Waheed

Black Griffon
Mar 12, 2005

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are. You are destiny.


Star Man posted:

It means they want a mercenary or follower

correct. homies Waheed and others.

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

Waheed is objectively the best name, but Emilio was always my boy

King Cocoa Butter
Mar 24, 2021

Don't be ashy.
Confirmed that mousing over a shrine in the corner minimap will tell you whether it's a shrine that spawns enemies - this can save a nice bit of time if you're just trying to blast through a dungeon and the objective is to kill all enemies. The shrine name won't show if it's corrupted.

Another useful trick for leveling alts: if you find an item with an aspect that has flat numbers, instead of a % bonus, you can upgrade the item first, THEN extract. The aspect roll will be upgraded when you upgrade the item. You can get ~4k barriers on a very low level character, making you unkillable. I haven't looked through but I bet this makes some +damage aspects insane for self-PLing

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


Stux posted:

in fact its good if theres poo poo thats just dogshit lol that rules. overbalancing is aids. simple as.

:amen:

BombiTheZombie
Mar 27, 2010
Penetrating shot absolutely mulches bosses with poison imbuement. Nothing like making the boss vulnerable and tossing a crit penetrating shot at him and seeing the entire healthbar go deep red.

Mobs that gain a barrier are absolute rear end though as the poison gets removed by the barrier.

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005

King Cocoa Butter posted:

Confirmed that mousing over a shrine in the corner minimap will tell you whether it's a shrine that spawns enemies - this can save a nice bit of time if you're just trying to blast through a dungeon and the objective is to kill all enemies. The shrine name won't show if it's corrupted.

Another useful trick for leveling alts: if you find an item with an aspect that has flat numbers, instead of a % bonus, you can upgrade the item first, THEN extract. The aspect roll will be upgraded when you upgrade the item. You can get ~4k barriers on a very low level character, making you unkillable. I haven't looked through but I bet this makes some +damage aspects insane for self-PLing
That's really interesting. I'm nearly done collecting altars of Lilith and leveling a first hardcore character to 50, and I've been considering going for the campaign achievements with a new character after getting all the Lilith buffs and cross-character skill points. Would be great to have some seriously buffed aspects for that purpose as well.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

Fenarisk posted:

If this is how season 1 goes I see a lot of people dropping off and not looking back, especially if you have to waste time regrinding renown every season. They hopefully knock it out of the park because I don't know that the modern player base is going to be on board.

If eternal renown/quest/map progress was used for seasons I'd have no issue, I like the level and loot treadmill but chasing down way points and getting max renown again just to be at a baseline of class competency is awful.

What made seasons in D3 fun and work was that a little after getting to max level you'd be given a full free set - was the main reason to even do seasons - "oh, this season monks free set is Inna's and Mystic Ally just got some buffs, gonna roll a monk and try it out". And then you'd be doing endgame within an afternoon.

Yea unless the season journey just shortcuts some of the stuff to get a character going quicker, I don't see myself caring to engage with that.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

King Cocoa Butter posted:

Confirmed that mousing over a shrine in the corner minimap will tell you whether it's a shrine that spawns enemies - this can save a nice bit of time if you're just trying to blast through a dungeon and the objective is to kill all enemies. The shrine name won't show if it's corrupted.

Another useful trick for leveling alts: if you find an item with an aspect that has flat numbers, instead of a % bonus, you can upgrade the item first, THEN extract. The aspect roll will be upgraded when you upgrade the item. You can get ~4k barriers on a very low level character, making you unkillable. I haven't looked through but I bet this makes some +damage aspects insane for self-PLing

You can also tell if a health shrine is corrupted because it will appear on the minimap as an actual shrine icon instead of the unique health shrine icon.

Hra Mormo
Mar 6, 2008

The Internet Man
Proof that I remain as stupid as ever, it took me this long to realize I can drop a pin on the map and the game will plot a course visible on the minimap for me so I don't have to keep opening the map to make sure I'm heading in the right direction.

Sure would've been handy if I could've been marginally less stupid like 100 altars ago.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Endgame is killing Lilith in t1

If a skill can do that it’s fine for now

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013

Avalerion posted:

What made seasons in D3 fun and work was that a little after getting to max level you'd be given a full free set - was the main reason to even do seasons - "oh, this season monks free set is Inna's and Mystic Ally just got some buffs, gonna roll a monk and try it out". And then you'd be doing endgame within an afternoon.

Yea unless the season journey just shortcuts some of the stuff to get a character going quicker, I don't see myself caring to engage with that.



I don't wanna go back to III seasons because the progression was both dull and shallow. Only thing making it worth it was pushing but when your power curve is pretty much determined in advance it's kinda lame.

They could give a series of high rolled aspects as reward though and that would be cool. Better yet give players a choice at each tier between a few and now we are cooking with gas.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 13 hours!

Avalerion posted:

What made seasons in D3 fun and work was that a little after getting to max level you'd be given a full free set

this is the opposite of fun

flashman
Dec 16, 2003

Change level requirements for items from the dumbass system they have now to 50 for sacred 60 for ancestral, have a toggle that you can switch on and off to find uniques for other classes, make the ladder six months or a year. There's a game for u...


And zoom out the screen

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TheSwizzler
May 13, 2005

LETTIN THE CAT OUTTA THE BAG

Stux posted:

this is the opposite of fun

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