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Jaxyon posted:Use the most safe ways possible to do dangerous work and stunts. Again though, the safest possible way to do a stunt is to use a CG replacement, take the actors completely out of the equation. Are you for that?
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Jun 22, 2023 17:45
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How often do firearms on film sets cause accidents, anyways? Are there any numbers?
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Jun 22, 2023 18:01
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Basebf555 posted:Again though, the safest possible way to do a stunt is to use a CG replacement, take the actors completely out of the equation. Are you for that? Would you say that at some point, things are too safety focused, to the detriment of everyone? 
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Jun 22, 2023 18:09
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Schwarzwald posted:How often do firearms on film sets cause accidents, anyways? Are there any numbers? As far as I'm aware there have been three serious accidents in about 40 years. John Erik-Hexum was killed in 1984 because he wasn't properly educated about how the prop guns worked, so he was joking around and put one right up against his head and pulled the trigger thinking it couldn't hurt him. The impact of the blank round when pressed against his head was still enough to kill him. After that the only other two incidents are Brandon Lee, which was a freak accident that led to a lot of the more stringent safety policies being put in place to prevent something like it from happening again. Then the Rust incident which wasn't a failure of safety policies at all, but a production that was knowingly and criminally ignoring them.
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Jun 22, 2023 18:09
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You are never going to get a straight answer here because "you should always go with the safest thing for guns, but not for <any other type of stunt, all of which have killed more stuntmen than guns>" is incoherent. Either you have to say "no, I don't think that other types of stunts should always go with the safest" and then of course the question is "why?" and the answer becomes a cost-benefit analysis between safety and aesthetics, which is precisely what we've all been debating this whole time and there's no moral high ground anymore, so it's not fun anymore. You're just another person with an opinion instead of a moral crusader. Or you have to say "yes, I think that movies should be all digital" and then all your horseshit about "caring about stuntpeople" is exposed as the sanctimonious garbage that it was in the first place, and that the endgame here is to literally eliminate stuntmen all together and put them into the unemployment line. No moral high ground here either. Stop quoting this person, put them in your ignore list, and move on. There's no good faith to be had here and this is just going to go on for pages and pages, because this person has nothing better to do.
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Jun 22, 2023 18:21
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Instead of diving into this debate again, everyone post badass stunts you've seen in movies that you like I'll start, main part starts at 4min but it's all worth it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH5KKY5v3Sc
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Jun 22, 2023 18:27
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I don't know anything about stunts and I haven't been to film school but I'm going to say that probably the stunt coordinator with 30 years of experience who worked on the most gun-heavy franchise in existence probably has a better idea of where gun stunts should go than a poster on the SA forums action movies thread. But what do I know? That's an Appeal to Authority no less!
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Jun 22, 2023 18:33
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MacheteZombie posted:Instead of diving into this debate again, everyone post badass stunts you've seen in movies that you like This entire thing, which I saw on a bootleg VHS in...1995 or so? It was terribly dubbed, terrible quality, just awful. I was spellbound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B215g-Evv0U
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Jun 22, 2023 18:38
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That's his second worst injury stunt I believe. Worst was jumping into a tree where he cracked his skull https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdwVuXLBJb8
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Jun 22, 2023 18:39
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I'll go more modern - here's the best fight scene from Warrior . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uexp4-j6lSk Plenty of homages to Bruce Lee as well
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Jun 22, 2023 19:14
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I couldn't handle stunt school. Got forced to drop out in the fall semester. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H06Yb3WwmU&t=140s e: rubber stunt performers, honest.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:21
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MacheteZombie posted:Instead of diving into this debate again, everyone post badass stunts you've seen in movies that you like    I went to look for gifs of all the completely insane hundred year old stunts from Buster Keaton, stagecoach , etc but it's all on youtube. Guess I need to get busy with giffing them Here's one of the few  ynohtna posted:I couldn't handle stunt school. Got forced to drop out in the fall semester. 
trevorreznik fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 19:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nASsUCL_1oU
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Jun 22, 2023 19:38
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man
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Goddamn
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Jun 22, 2023 19:39
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Somebody saw the part in Road Warrior where the dude broke his legs and said, "that guy's a wimp!" Holy hell!
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Jun 22, 2023 19:46
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MacheteZombie posted:Instead of diving into this debate again, everyone post badass stunts you've seen in movies that you like  I kept expecting the Naked Gun theme to start in the POV shots in the parking garage, though.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:11
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Chocolate goes HARD Whatever happened to the lead actor? She was amazing.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:38
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The best way to encourage safety on sets would simply to have the actors use bananas instead of guns and say bang bang. No further action required. Like imagine how much better John Wick would be if instead of guns it was people holding bananas saying bang bang. It'd be amazing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 22, 2023 20:38
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Shageletic posted:Chocolate goes HARD She got married and started a family in 2012, her wiki page said she planned to take a few years off at that time but who knows, sometimes life takes you a different direction.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:41
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I was born twenty years after the movie was made but I'm STILL angry that one of the best James Bond stunts was ruined by a sound effect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzCIbhLUUA0
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Jun 22, 2023 21:06
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Shageletic posted:Chocolate goes HARD She's popped up here and there in small roles as a tough, her last big role was in Triple Threat.
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Jun 22, 2023 22:20
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MacheteZombie posted:Instead of diving into this debate again, everyone post badass stunts you've seen in movies that you like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oo5vMlulCs
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Jun 22, 2023 22:53
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duz posted:She's popped up here and there in small roles as a tough, her last big role was in Triple Threat. Triple threat is just stacked cast
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Jun 22, 2023 23:18
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Jaxyon posted:Triple threat is just stacked cast It's a shame it's so deeply forgettable because, yeah, it's pretty much an Expendables/Oceans 11/Tombstone/Magnificent 7 level ensemble cast of B martial arts movies. Also Dominique Vandenberg is there. I know squib vs. CGI talk was run into the ground, but i think it's like any other tool: if you understand it, you can do something great with it. For John Wick, for instance, it let them do those fight scenes that are 30 second unbroken stanzas ending in a headshot, all in a single full shot that would be straight up impossible to do with squibs and blanks. Not difficult, impossible. For the Raid 2, it allowed that crazy shotgun execution shot near the end, where you're bracing for the shot, bracing for the cut to the close up, but it never comes and the dude gets his head blown off in the wide shot (i think that may have been a digital cut to an actual prosthetic, which makes the argument that they're both tools that have their place). The Night Comes for us pulls off some similar insane poo poo, allowing the director to wrongfoot the audience and have deaths come a little more suddenly, especially in the fight inside the SWAT van. True, you'll never have those glorious squib deaths that both need and deserve their own cut and close up, like the dude getting torn up in Robocop, and it'll be a while before CGI can replicate the five foot blast of muzzle flash and smoke from Chow Yun Fat's shotgun in Hard Boiled, but both of those were excellent, outstanding examples from directors at the top of their game who fully understood the tools they were using. The gifs someone posted of lovely muzzle flash (one was Walking Dead, I didn't recognise the other) weren't lovely because they were CGI. Scenes and shows shot that ineptly would still be so if they had all the real blanks in the world, as literally everything else about the Walking Dead demonstrates. Anyway, since we're posting cool fights and stunts, this is one of my favourites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts8rVL5gkZM It's not just a good fight scene, but it catches the audience off guard. Taslim is a handsome leading man but hasn't got to do much action stuff up to this point in the movie. Revealing that he's actually a badass and having him get overwhelmed by a much stronger opponent in the same scene is such a very clever mix and matching of action movie tropes.
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Jun 23, 2023 00:15
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Snowman_McK posted:
Every drat time I watch this scene, which is a lot, I am torn between hoping that this time, Taslim makes it and being in awe of how utterly badass Ruhian is. The end of the fight where Mad Dog patiently gets into position for kill while Jaka is feebly resisting is just heartbreaking.
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Jun 23, 2023 05:32
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Grendels Dad posted:Every drat time I watch this scene, which is a lot, I am torn between hoping that this time, Taslim makes it and being in awe of how utterly badass Ruhian is. The end of the fight where Mad Dog patiently gets into position for kill while Jaka is feebly resisting is just heartbreaking. the sound design is so effective
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Jun 23, 2023 07:42
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Grendels Dad posted:Every drat time I watch this scene, which is a lot, I am torn between hoping that this time, Taslim makes it and being in awe of how utterly badass Ruhian is. The end of the fight where Mad Dog patiently gets into position for kill while Jaka is feebly resisting is just heartbreaking. Mad Dog selling himself as one of the great action antagonists through nothing but the actors own physical abilities is amazing. I realised, on like the fifth time I watched the Raid, why he works: he fights from bad positions. Yeah, sure, you can knock him down, hold him down...but he'll fight from there. He'll fight to the death from inside a headlock, then think about getting up or escaping the joke. He never misses an opportunity to land a shot, even if he's in a terrible position. It's a wonderful piece of characterisation through choreography that's highlighted even more by Ruhian's very different fighting style in the sequel: much more controlled and precise, right up until he loses control of the bar fight.
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Jun 23, 2023 12:13
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A villain who is a better fighter then the heroes, without any supernatural stuff but he apparently just trained more, is always an interesting thing to see. Mad Dog is not just better then both heroes combined but they need to use a weapon, something Mad Dog explicitly avoided using earlier on. Here is another one, Dick Wei against the power trio of Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao and he beats the crap out of them before being taken out with a grenade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpmPyQfqDi8 This was something completely unthinkable in classic Hollywood storytelling, the hero inevitably triumphs over the villain in single combat. And it would be the villain to use dirty tricks to no avail, often just to make the outright killing of the villain justified.
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Jun 23, 2023 13:16
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Yea I watched Project A for the first time recently and that climactic fight scene was amazing, but it also occurred to me that it might be one of the first examples of that type of fight i.e. The Mad Dog vs. Rama/Andi scene or the Jet Li vs. Riggs/Murtaugh scene from Lethal Weapon 4.
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Jun 23, 2023 14:19
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Tom Cruise's massive success with "I am actually doing this! Yes we did this practical!" shows that these bloodless digital decisions do have a cost on the audience and that people are looking for some sense of authenticity from their blockbuster action movies. For me personally the appeal of a good stunt is the sense of awe that a real person actually did that. It’s like the Tony Jaa thing above…it’s immeasurably cooler because its a real dude flipping and kicking and these are real people falling off balconies and getting kicking into backflips and so on, all with very little “trickery”. That’s really Jackie Chan sliding a few stories down a light display in a mall and then falling into a shop. If you could somehow replace all of that with CGI that looked 100% convincing it would still be way less interesting to me because I’m not surprised or awed that a computer can draw a person doing crazy kicks or falling multiple stories without dying. It’s the difference between watching a magician do a trick and watching a CGI rendition of that same trick. CGI gunplay doesn’t really bother me because theres nothing especially awe inspiring about fake shooting with a plastic gun vs fake shooting with blanks. One usually looks more convincing and Heat is a much better movie for being done practically but if you could do heat 100% with CGI it wouldn’t affect the quality of the movie to me in the same way that turning Jackie Chan into CGI or a robot would. Anyway, don’t want to restart the argument, just wanted to give a different perspective. Edit: I posted this before scrolling to the next page and seeing the Police Story stunt posted. Great minds. I love that movie. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 15:46
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Basebf555 posted:Yea I watched Project A for the first time recently and that climactic fight scene was amazing, but it also occurred to me that it might be one of the first examples of that type of fight i.e. The Mad Dog vs. Rama/Andi scene or the Jet Li vs. Riggs/Murtaugh scene from Lethal Weapon 4. Also, Project A stands out for having one of the, if not the, best dropkicks ever put on film
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Jun 23, 2023 15:47
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YOLOsubmarine posted:
I actually just rewatched Heat last night because a buddy of mine is selling Heat related strongman shirts and it got me interested in it and there are several instances of CGI flashes that are extremely noticable but the sound more than makes up for it. The crack of the shots and brass hitting the asphalt are just fantastic.
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Jun 23, 2023 16:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Squibs don't look like real gunshot wounds so this is a stupid point to make in a conversation that's full of stupid points. seriously such a weirdo. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 23, 2023 17:20
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For me the internet two step here is "the person who disagrees with me is just trolling and simply wants to cause strife because they disagree with me, the guy who has a nuanced argument, while they are polarized". (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 23, 2023 17:24
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CeeJee posted:A villain who is a better fighter then the heroes, without any supernatural stuff but he apparently just trained more, is always an interesting thing to see. Mad Dog is not just better then both heroes combined but they need to use a weapon, something Mad Dog explicitly avoided using earlier on. The MCU of all things had a fun take on this at the end of Captain Marvel when the mentor/evil guy tries to goad her into confronting him in single combat without her powers to prove how far she's come or whatever and he's talking it up like it's going to be like the Riggs/Joshua fight at the end of Lethal Weapon but she just immediately blasts him instead.
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Jun 23, 2023 17:31
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For comparison's sake, here's Ruhian in an episode of Strike Back. This has way more cuts and edits to try and hide that MacPherson isn't anywhere near his equal. I still like it though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xpPviAZJVY
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Jun 23, 2023 20:14
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Narcissus1916 posted:For comparison's sake, here's Ruhian in an episode of Strike Back. This has way more cuts and edits to try and hide that MacPherson isn't anywhere near his equal. I still like it though. *leans over to Narcissus* That's Cecep Rahman, the assassin from The Raid 2/Ruhian's bro in John Wick 3.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:24
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Narcissus1916 posted:For comparison's sake, here's Ruhian in an episode of Strike Back. This has way more cuts and edits to try and hide that MacPherson isn't anywhere near his equal. I still like it though. Hammering the mag release and then using his foot to work the charging handle and completely emptying the rifle is some inspired choreography Also I swear Mac fights another member of that stunt team in the next season but I can't remember who Edit. Mac fights Mad Dog in the next season. B-Rock452 fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 20:31
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B-Rock452 posted:I actually just rewatched Heat last night because a buddy of mine is selling Heat related strongman shirts and it got me interested in it and there are several instances of CGI flashes that are extremely noticable but the sound more than makes up for it. The crack of the shots and brass hitting the asphalt are just fantastic. The sound effects in Heat definitely help sell the gunplay to an absurd degree.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:58
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For heat the sound is so good because it is the actual live sound of the blanks firing. The entire street was rigged for sound so you get the echoes of the gunshots included. I don't recall any of the muzzle flashes being done in post, since they would have to edit out the "real" ones from the blanks, but it's been a minute since I've watched it, maybe I'm not remembering something. WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 21:10
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