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Vino posted:My insurance took forever to come in and I got bored of riding around the neighborhood so I didn't ride for a week. But it came in yesterday and I went riding two big circles around the city streets. I did some lane splitting for the first time and it is super scary. For some reason I'm worried that every car I pass will veer into me for no reason. 1. There's no need to start splitting lanes until you're comfortable with it. Don't yet push yourself to do things you've seen other motorcyclists do. Ride carefully and cautiously. 2. When you do start splitting lanes, first only do it when traffic is completely stopped at a light, and only at under 10 miles an hour. Later you can decide how fast you're comfortable with. Personally I will do it up to about 30 miles an hour, never with more than a ~15 mph differential. Once you're going 30-35 just stay in the lane. 3. It is totally reasonable and sane to be concerned that every car will veer into you for no reason. Any one of them might! I think of riding among cars like riding in a herd of cattle. They aren't specifically out to get you, and they'll avoid you if they see you, but they're very oblivious and generally don't notice you at all, and they could easily just steamroll right over you without warning. You must always be hyper-aware of what the cars around you are doing. Watch their movements for signs that they're about to make a move. Don't ever hang out in their blind spots. Don't ever cross through an intersection without looking both ways, especially if you're the first one off from the light. Make eye contact with drivers who are stopped and waiting. 4. Tesla drivers loving suck and they will do this poo poo. They are the new BMW owners imo. Obviously it is illegal for them to pass you in the oncoming lane in the city (assuming they're crossing a double yellow), but you can't stop them. All you can do is keep your eyes open and be ready to swerve in case they do something really stupid. To minimize the chance of drivers trying to share your lane, you should be using blocking positions. I'm not sure if California teaches those specifically, which is why I linked the one from Ontario (Canada), but it's a really good concept that I think significantly increases safety. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 18:44
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Yea I guess I actually didn't split a lane, I just rode in a margin up to the right of some cars that were stopped at a light. There was no lane to my right. I'll stick to just doing that for now, which is just as well because there are relatively few roads around here with two lanes to split between. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing more than that yet because in a two lane road with a turning lane there are four possible places to split up to the front, and I don't loving remember which you're supposed to do in which situations so I'm only splitting if there's no right turn and I'm going straight because then it's obvious.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:24
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Yea if you are going too slow on the right hand side of a lane certain drivers will treat you like a bicycle which is to say aggressively.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:34
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Generally it's better to be moving forwards through traffic than to have it moving past you. Cars move into spaces, if you're filtering the key moment to worry about is when you're passing a car that has a space next to it. Look at where wheels are pointing in stationary traffic, and for rotation of the wheels rather than just movement of the car.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:35
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If I understand the bit about you riding up the right margin/shoulder, don’t do that unless you’re actually turning right, and consider waiting to do that till you’re more comfortable because that shoulder is often sloped, complicated by a bicyclist or otherwise goofy. In any event you can’t legally use the shoulder to filter forward as far as I know.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:58
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Shoulder is perhaps not the correct word. There was a long line of stopped cars trying to turn left onto Highland on the red line, generally nobody wants to continue on Edgewood. There was one narrowish spot between a parked car and a stopped car that freaked me out. I took the blue path. Did I do a bad? (Yea looking at this again there was no stoplight or sign, it was just heavy 5:00 traffic. That's whatever.)
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Jun 23, 2023 21:40
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If a car can legally turn right or left, do not split to the right or left of traffic. In grid lock, the risk is greatly reduced, but you definitely could have been hit by a car, and it would have been your fault, as the blue line does not constitute lane splitting in California and is not legal. quote:SECTION 1. Section 21658.1 is added to the Vehicle Code, to read: FWIW, I almost surely would have done the exact same thing as you. Just be extremely aware of your surroundings. Practice emergency braking as much as possible.
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Jun 23, 2023 22:46
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Vino posted:For some reason I'm worried that every car I pass will veer into me for no reason. Cause they will. stay worried about that. I think I got a sixth sense with drivers by always quick-checking at the driver's head movements and front wheels as they can telegraph what sumb poo poo they're about to do. Tinted rear windows makes this hard but you'll be surprised how much driver's give away with head movements before they commit to a lane change. oh poo poo new page this was already covered Also I'm wary of all Tesla drivers because my impression is anyone that buys a Tesla is utterly disinterested in the concept of driving and therefore loving blows at it. and lol Edgewood GriszledMelkaba fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 22:53
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Yea Edgewood/Highland should be near the top of the LA city planners big list of failures. OK so you're telling me that if it's a one lane road with no turning lanes then legally you can't lane split up to the front? But you're also implying that most motorcyclists do it anyway? I can't find any resources online about it and the DMV handbook doesn't go into specifics. (For the record when I got to the part of the road where the car can opt to turn right I did slow down in case that person decided it was time to veer off south.)
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Jun 24, 2023 00:11
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Actually to be honest in rereading the law, I'm not entirely sure!! I was under the impression there had to be two or more lanes, and I have heard police say the same thing, but it does not actually say that; taken in context with the other paragraph about driving within the lane, it seems to be implied. When the topic came up at my MSF/BRC class, we were told you can split between lanes only, not between a lane and parked cars (or on the shoulder). CHP also implies between lanes. I am not a lawyer. quote:21658. Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic in one direction, the following rules apply: Like I said, I would have done what you did, as would have most motorcyclists, but just be cautious, because there is a right hand turn there for cars to make. It sounds like you were being aware, so I think you're OK.
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Jun 24, 2023 00:36
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Your impression is the same one I've been under and I think the first sentence of 21658 there bears it out: you can only split between two same-directional lanes. If you're at the leftmost lane, going further around on the left is using the shoulder and illegal. If you're in the rightmost lane, going around the right is also using the shoulder. A single lane in one direction effectively has nowhere to legally "split". To be clear I would probably have done that squirt up the right too, with the caveat that traffic is very stationary and the trapped cars don't have enough room to do the same thing you're doing. Otherwise it gets sketchy IMO, as a pass on the right, plus a line of drivers any one of whom might run out of patience, see that off-ramp/side street and bolt for it the second they get a little room in front of their cage.
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Jun 24, 2023 02:19
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filtering forward on the right to make a right turn is legal in a car within some distance of an intersection i can't recall, i don't see why it wouldn't be on a motorcycle e: i guess in a car the terminology would be "passing on the shoulder" but yeah iirc its fine when you're close to an intersection, have the room to safely do so, and with the understanding that you do not have right of way (as in, its your job to not hit anyone regardless of what they may do) Cactus Ghost fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jun 24, 2023 |
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Jun 24, 2023 10:45
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OK yesterday I rode up the way I usually go to work but then stopped when I got to the highway and turned around and came home, because I know the route well and figured it would be good practice. Let's talk different lane splitting situations I saw during that time. #1  There's always a long line of cars going straight (red line) and few people trying to turn left (blue line). In a car I sometimes pull out into the oncoming lane if there are no cars coming to go around them and get into the short lane. On a bike this is probably even safer because I can ride in that yellow median and not actually be in oncoming traffic. Legality: questionable? #2  Going the opposite way on the same road, there's always a long line of cars in the left lane going straight (red line) and no cars trying to turn right from the right turn only lane (blue cars). I can ride up to the front in the turn lane and shift left in front of the front car waiting at the light, right? But what happens if the cars start moving while I'm doing it and I am stuck in a right turn only lane against the now-moving line of cars? My guess is that I slow and move left a bit and take the first gap in cars created by the now-moving cars? #3  I'm going straight through the intersection. I have the option of lane splitting between the two lanes or to the right of the right turn lane. You want to go up between the lanes, yes? Except if I want to turn right then I actually go up the right of the right lane?
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Jun 24, 2023 19:20
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Don't cross into the opposite lane or ride in between the yellow lines to go around the cars. This is dangerous and illegal. Doing it in a car is too. lmao LA drivers. There is no really ideal way to split up to the left in this situation if there's a line of cars waiting. The best strategy would be to ride between the two real lanes most of the way, then when the left turning lane appears, stop, look carefully, and cut between two cars to get into it. Look back down the road and make very sure nobody is attempting the stupid move you described, because they'll run you over. If possible, split between the left and center lanes instead. If you are splitting between an empty lane and a full lane, make very clear that you are planning to go straight by merging over at the end and waiting on the lane markings slightly ahead of the first car. Don't stay in the right lane and then try to dodge over when traffic starts moving. That's confusing and lovely. When you've split up to the front at the stoplight and the light goes green, you should first !LOOK BOTH WAYS FOR PEOPLE RUNNING THE RED!, and then gun it and be the first one off the line. Get out of the cars' way as fast as possible. Of course if some prick is mad that you're ~winning at traffic~ and wants to beat you, let him go ahead and get lost. But car drivers are generally a little confused when a motorcyclist who has split up to the front doesn't go first, because then you're sort of becoming a rock in the stream. Avoid this. If you're going straight you want to be between the two lanes, yes. If you're turning right...splitting is sketchy. The letter of the law says you can't split between the parked cars and the travel lane. It is also a more dangerous place to split, because drivers in the right lane do not think about the possibility of another vehicle coming up on their right, whether it's a car or a motorcycle or a bicycle. They will not look for you and will not perform a blind-spot check before turning right. You also risk getting doored by someone getting out of their car, or hit by a car nosing out to leave their parking space. That said, I have done it before, when traffic is completely stopped. It's not great. A better and safer way would be to split the lanes properly to three or four cars from the front, then merge over to the right lane and make the turn like normal. Final point: you are still very new to this and, while I'm giving you this information for educational purposes, I don't recommend that you start lane splitting all over the place and in these odd situations yet. Ride cautiously, don't do anything sketchy, and keep your splitting to between two real lanes when traffic is fully stopped. If getting where you want to go would require something more complicated than that, just stay in your lane. There's no rush. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jun 24, 2023 |
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Jun 24, 2023 20:02
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Yes I appreciate the final point. Be assured I'm not actually trying any of this stuff, just trying to learn the rules before I go about doing it. I have so far done some very limited splitting only in situations where I had a few seconds not moving to evaluate the situation and decide there were no threats. So it sounds like you're saying that even when you want to turn the ideal way to do it is you lane split between two actual lanes and then near the front you duck in front of a car that has left a gap between another car? So do what is marked in blue and not what is marked in red?  I guess my most obvious question would be, what if no such gap exists?
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Jun 24, 2023 20:50
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My 2 cents about lane splitting is that your risk factor is always multiplied when you are not moving as a normal car in a normal lane behaviour. Do not take it for granted and for it to be respected. I use it in stop and go grid lock situations to not have to jerk off the clutch and not overheat my old oil boiler bikes.
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Jun 24, 2023 21:26
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I’ve been doing some limited lane splitting, my rules right now are only if it’s just a few cars, there’s plenty of space between cars, and I just saw the light turn red so I know it won’t suddenly green on me. Generally I only go between rows but sometimes I’ll go around the right on a single lane if the cars are stopped and I don’t see any other hazards. Going well so far. Man riding motorcycles is fun. Once I was stopped at a light and another rider came up behind me and his bike was so loud I could not hear my own bike and let me tell you I was very intimidated. He zoomed past me real quick once we were out of the turn. So anyway I have been feeling pretty good about city driving. I don’t stall out anymore and I still get confused at the controls sometimes but increasingly less often. I have identified a route to work that can avoid highways but it is a 1hr drive instead of 20 minutes. I’m thinking of driving it in my car in the morning to get more familiar with it but it’s pretty simple, one road almost all the way there. What else would goons recommend I do to prepare before I attempt it on the bike? Though to be honest with some road driving behind me the highway doesn’t seem very scary anymore. I’m not doing it yet but not for any reason more concrete than progressing slower than I feel like I should out of an abundance of caution.
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Jun 27, 2023 09:54
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If you are that unsure I'd drive the same route in non-rush hour situation, with no pressure, just cruise. Just go out ride in a non stress situation to build experience.
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Jun 27, 2023 11:31
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Did some more brake drills yesterday and only on the last attempt realized that my topcase wasn't locked up from before. It now opens a bit wider :V
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Jun 27, 2023 12:50
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braking drills on dirt are fun if you have some around you too, cause you can lock the front real easy and get a sense for how terrifyingly destabilizing it is, but (usually) without... dun dun dun dun LAYENR DURRRRRN
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Jun 27, 2023 13:45
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You can also learn to catch and correct for slides in dirt (fairly) easily, and experience the opposite, which is STAN DERRUP
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Jun 27, 2023 13:54
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IT HAPPENED I was out riding today and every time I approach any intersection or where any side street meets the road I always slow down if I can't be sure someone won't barge out into my line of travel. Well today someone did, and the entire time I was thinking to myself, "surely they see me" while slowing down just in case they didn't. But they didn't until they were almost all the way out into the lane, at which point they realized their mistake and did a pathetic duck into the bike lane. At no point was I in any danger of colliding with them, but only because I was cautious and prepared. If I had been traveling at full regular speed or not paying attention it woulda been a lot closer. I have no proof that it was because I was on a motorcycle and therefore less visible, but something about that guy made me think it was. I feel like nothing that blatant has ever happened to me in a car. In a car, that person would have gotten their nose out into the road and then seen me and braked halfway in my lane or whatever. This guy didn't see me until he was fully in the lane. I've never seen that before. Is it just me? Is this what I need to expect from now on? I'm totally fine with it and I feel like I was never in any actual danger due to being cautious and prepared, I just want confirmation/validation that it's a motorcycle thing.
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Jun 29, 2023 02:58
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You need to expect that on every ride, at every intersection or more frequently.
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Jun 29, 2023 03:02
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Vino posted:mI just want confirmation/validation that it's a motorcycle thing. It's not solely a Motorcycle Thing, drivers pull out in front of other cars all the time. But it has more dire consequences for bikers so you have to be more ready for it.
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Jun 29, 2023 03:07
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Yea I'm ready. I drive that way anyway in cars. I also got to use my horn for the first time. Cute angry meeps meep meeeeeeep
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Jun 29, 2023 03:08
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Vino posted:IT HAPPENED Totally normal, when you get more accomplished you can do a little weave in your lane that often gets their attention because a light jiggling back and forth is a lot more noticeable than one that's basically static from their perspective.
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Jun 29, 2023 05:04
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Rode about an hour and 20 minutes to the office today, then about an hour to a bar after work to meet a friend, then 30 minute ride home in the dark. It all went fine! No problems at all! Take that, irrational fears. I had a great time and now I am beat. I think I'm going to start training myself for the highway this weekend. If riding around city streets is feeling so natural now I don't see why I can't try the highway. Still taking most precautions of course, so as not to overextend myself. The only problem I had today was that after riding for an hour my brain started to be less sharp and pay less attention to the road.
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Jun 30, 2023 07:09
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Thats totally normal. I have a rule to have a 5min stop at least once every hour to drink, pee, get of the bike to strech my legs or get something to snack on when riding. If you are focusing as you should be you will get tired. There are cup holders for bikes, and camelbacks work, but just stopping a little helps. For riding all day id really recommend a good 30-45min stop for lunch etc to reset a little. Edit: If you do transport days with 8-10 hours of riding with all highway to get somewhere fun with twistys you want to have that real long 1h break to reset, have a small nap, go see the world biggest snowshoe or whatever. Supradog fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 07:31
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I got up to sixth gear at about 55 mph today in decent winds and it was my first taste of what it might be like on a highway and I'm scared again now. It's a bit different. I feel like I have less control over the motorcycle because the bike has so much momentum and I'm not quite confident enough at countersteering to make up for that. While I was going I realized the bike handles a bit different a got distracted getting the feel of it, during which time a car came up on my right and surprised me. I didn't feel like I was in control, which is probably not how I should feel on a bike. I'm trying to figure out how I can practice that without actually being 55 mph on a highway. (FYI to every kind person who replied to my previous posts: I read them, thanks for the replies. I didn't have anything in particular to say in turn but I appreciate and will be applying the advice.)
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Jul 2, 2023 05:34
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your bike is actually more stable at speed, and counter-steering is 1) easier at speed and 2) the only way you're making your bike turn in the direction you want it to go at anything faster than a walking pace. it may seem counter-intuitive, but make sure you're not death-gripping the bars to help reduce the sensation of lack of control.
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Jul 2, 2023 05:58
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Hey Vino, you're wearing earplugs, right? My first freeway ride was pretty scary, mostly because it was so loud. Wind noise is bad enough, add some truck tires and whatnot and it's just no fun. Second time I plugged my ears and it was a lot less scary, also a great way to protect your hearing. Statistically freeway riding is safer than surface streets but yeah, it's not a very pleasant environment to be in on a motorcycle. But you're right in that you should ideally always have a mental image of where everyone is around you, behind and to the sides as well as in front and getting surprised by a vehicle nearby means you've failed in this. It gets easier with practice. As for wind it doesn't bother me much but I can see why people dislike it. A gust from the side can push you around some and does pretty dramatic things to the lean angle at least on some bikes. In my limited experience it has very small effects on the actual course the bike takes though, and a car lane is plenty wide that it's not actually a real problem IMO. Just relax as the wind pushes you around and you'll be fine. Regarding steering at speed, I believe the sensation you describe stems from the fact that the bike gets so stable at high speed - you'll actually need to put a bit a muscle behind your countersteer inputs if you want to lean the bike over for a turn or swerve. It really doesn't take much, but significantly more than at say 30 mph. It's a weird feeling until you get used to it.
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Jul 2, 2023 08:26
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Always use ear plugs. Tinnitus and hearing loss sucks. How a bike handles at highway speed and how wind affects it really depends on the bikes geometry and which way is the wind blowing today. Some bikes gets pushed around a lot from side wind, other bikes ignores it. Headwind and tailwind and how gusty the wind is also affects a lot how comfortable it is to ride. It's just a thing you need to build experience with.
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Jul 2, 2023 14:42
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Supradog posted:Tinnitus and hearing loss sucks. Ask me how I know, probably a couple of times and while facing me so I can see your lips. It’s no joke, I do have a family history of profound hearing loss, so this would have happened anyway, but spending my early years ripping around on two stroke dirt bikes with zero ear protection certainly sped the process up!!
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Jul 2, 2023 15:33
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Seriously, I wish earpro was lumped in with ATGATT discussions. I rode for 10+ years before starting to wear ear plugs, and went to way too many loud concerts as well. My hearing is hosed and tinnitus is the cherry on top. Wear earpro, y'all.
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Jul 2, 2023 15:49
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The irony for me is that my tinnitus is so mild, I can only hear it when I have ear plugs in.
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Jul 2, 2023 19:47
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I was riding around today and another biker at a stoplight gave me a peace sign. I'M ONE OF US NOW WOOO I wasn't expecting to go that fast when I started out so I hadn't put earplugs in. I do intend to do so before getting on the interstate for real. My helmet has a thick (1/2 inch or so?) muff padding over the ears between my ears and the side of the helmet. That doesn't count now does it? I don't think so but just checking. My problem riding around today has actually more been that my helmet starts hurting after a while, like an hour of riding or more, in one specific spot. Not very comfortable.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:15
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Nah the earpads don't count, when you get up to highway speeds there is a constant, low but damaging racket for which earplugs are in order. Once you habituate to them they're actually great, makes the whole experience calmer. Where's the sore spot? Dead center of upper forehead?
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Jul 3, 2023 01:30
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Top rear on one side, just to the side of where you might have a bald spot or wear a yarmulke, if you were inclined to. edit: It's been warmer lately, I wonder whether my head has gotten bigger in the heat, or something??? I didn't have this problem during the training classes and I wore my helmet the whole day then.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:32
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And don’t be afraid to experiment if the first earplugs you try are uncomfortable. I’m a big ‘ol guy who needs the tiniest ear plugs I can find. The cheap foam ones are just about the best option … as long as they fit.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:51
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it really is true that earplugs help your confidence on the freeway. It's easier to keep your nerve when the wind isn't shouting at you
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Jul 3, 2023 01:56
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