|
Warrior only ever wore clothing for storyline reasons. Like when he suddenly had a hat because Lawler was going to hit him over the head with a framed picture.
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 13:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:01 |
|
|
Dawgstar posted:I think it was basically that Shango was set up to have a big feud with Warrior but when Warrior left Creative Had Nothing For Him. Not quite. So Papa Shango interfered in the WM8 main event, but Warrior vs. Shango wasn't the initial idea. It was supposed to lead to a Warrior vs. Sid feud. I guess they just needed another heel to make the ending angle of WM8 work. Then after doing two house show matches with Warrior in a day, Sid just straight-up left WWF because gently caress this poo poo. They then did Warrior vs. Shango, but other than a couple weeks of Warrior being cursed, there wasn't much to it. Apparently, they had a match on Superstars, but I have zero memory of this. Otherwise, this was the tail end of the era when dudes would just pay off their feuds on the house show circuit. And so, Warrior beat Shango again and again and again. Then he got roped back into the title picture by the time SummerSlam came around and spent the next couple months feuding with Flair. From there, they really had nothing for Shango. He was just a good heel to plug in for building up new faces (Tatanka, Crush), giving face champs someone to beat on house shows (Bret, Bulldog) or just having someone that Undertaker could take on. All he really had going for him for the remainder of his time with that gimmick were: - A Royal Rumble appearance. - Losing to Hacksaw in a King of the Ring qualifier, which was used for the "USA" music video. - A really fun heel vs. heel match with Repo Man that aired on Prime Time. - During a year when he was gone, they were planning to bring him back as the explanation for Bob Backlund's crazed outbursts. They decided not to go in that direction and they instead repackaged him as Kama.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 14:16
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Will we ever reevaluate The Undertaker and accept that he is hideously overrated? Breetai posted:So here's the litmus test I guess: how many examples are there of Undertaker having a match that is considered significantly better than his opponent is usually generally capable of?
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
Taker was mostly bad, with some outstanding matches that obfuscate the picture, imo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 15:59
|
|
|
It kind of seems like Undertaker matched the level of his opponents tbh. Have great matches with Shawn Michaels or Mankind or prime Jeff Hardy, have matches that are just fine with Kane, and have lovely matches with 7 foot oafs who have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time. By the metric of "All time great icon who should be on wrestling's Mount Rushmore", he's overrated but I can't really call him bad or anything. E. It can't be overstated how many God awful matches you will have gotten booked in if you wrestled through some of those WWF years
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
I think a fair take on taker was, he was a middling worker but had a great look and enough athleticism to be part of some pretty cool moments such as yeeting mankind off the cell, yeeting mankind through the cell, lighting Stephanie's teddy bear on fire while vince cries, diving over the inferno ropes to kane. In any other company with any other gimmick he probably would have been thought of as kind of like a Brian Cage of his time, athletic for a big dude but nothing for a personality.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 19:23
|
|
|
His matches with Vader weren't the epic hoss-offs we might have hoped for, not that Vader was at his athletic peak either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
The discussion about whether there have been any great giants from a workrate perspective is probably irrelevant if you have to have a history of elevating bad opponents, as it seems basically impossible to elevate someone else unless you are small enough to enable that person to do crazy moves to you that are otherwise impossible. And maybe this is ultimately what people mean by "great worker," being believable and competent at worst against any opponent and being excellent when paired with someone capable of keeping up or better? Any decent giant is eventually going to be paired against another giant who is incompetent and ruin it for everyone
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
Is Tomohiro Ishii a bigger deal in the US and Britain than in Japan? I don't really have a grasp on how popular he is in his home country.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 19:06
|
|
|
Nehru the Damaja posted:Is Tomohiro Ishii a bigger deal in the US and Britain than in Japan? I don't really have a grasp on how popular he is in his home country. I'd say he is a bigger deal to western New Japan fans than native New Japan fans, but that's probably because you can be a relatively casual (I hate using this term because of how it's been destroyed by weirdos on Twitter obsessed with a mythical casual fan who has the brain of some sort of insect, but I can't think think of any better word right now) wrestling watcher & keep up with New Japan when you live in Japan, where as to follow New Japan overseas you're kind of self-selecting to be a more dedicated or hardcore fan. I can't say with any certainty but I'd guess that Tomohiro Ishii would be about as popular with Japanese smarks/hardcores as he is with us. Where you don't mind that he's short & pudgy & an ex-junior heavyweight. But that's a guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:01
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Where you don't mind that he's short & pudgy & an ex-junior heavyweight. But that's a guess. It's the one thing I have NEVER understood about pro-wrestling. Ishii, Mox, Eddie, and Suzuki all exude pure menace to me even though they're not the platonic ideal of a "pro wrestler" and how weirdos like Jim Cornett et al try to dunk on these dudes for not being tall, shredded, and tan is beyond me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:58
|
|
|
Defenestrategy posted:It's the one thing I have NEVER understood about pro-wrestling. Ishii, Mox, Eddie, and Suzuki all exude pure menace to me even though they're not the platonic ideal of a "pro wrestler" and how weirdos like Jim Cornett et al try to dunk on these dudes for not being tall, shredded, and tan is beyond me. Wait, who the gently caress dunks on Suzuki? Half his menace comes from his well-deserved reputation as an actual professional fighter/catch wrestler.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:12
|
|
|
Has anyone ever referred to Road Agents as part of an angle or are they still mostly kept in kayfabe?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:26
|
|
|
They just call them coaches or trainers when they show up on tv
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:I'd say he is a bigger deal to western New Japan fans than native New Japan fans, but that's probably because you can be a relatively casual (I hate using this term because of how it's been destroyed by weirdos on Twitter obsessed with a mythical casual fan who has the brain of some sort of insect, but I can't think think of any better word right now) wrestling watcher
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:23
|
|
|
Defenestrategy posted:It's the one thing I have NEVER understood about pro-wrestling. Ishii, Mox, Eddie, and Suzuki all exude pure menace to me even though they're not the platonic ideal of a "pro wrestler" and how weirdos like Jim Cornett et al try to dunk on these dudes for not being tall, shredded, and tan is beyond me. It's especially silly when you consider that Jim Cornette will put over Bobby Eaton to anybody who will listen. Don't get me wrong, I like and appreciate Bobby, he's underrated and was an amazing tag wrestler. He also looked like he should be manning the counter at Pep Boys.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:51
|
|
|
I feel like Russo-booked promotions liked referring to ROAD AGENTS at times because it made everything seem more real obviously. Like, in WCW you'd have a backstage brawl that just happened to go through where they all were and Mark Madden would yell "THAT'S ROAD AGENT FIT FINLAY!!". I don't know if that's what you were looking for though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:11
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:I feel like Russo-booked promotions liked referring to ROAD AGENTS at times because it made everything seem more real obviously. Like, in WCW you'd have a backstage brawl that just happened to go through where they all were and Mark Madden would yell "THAT'S ROAD AGENT FIT FINLAY!!". I don't know if that's what you were looking for though. Not quite but it is interesting that they specifically called him a road agent but it's also the least surprising thing I've heard about WCW.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:38
|
|
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:It's especially silly when you consider that Jim Cornette will put over Bobby Eaton to anybody who will listen. Even more a lot of Cornette's monsters are all mostly bigger than the above examples but still look like goofs outside their element of wrestling. It's just double standard outlaw mud show rabble rabble.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Will we ever reevaluate The Undertaker and accept that he is hideously overrated? Some of those Wrestlemania manages that got raved about, the Michaels matches in particular, ho boy, dog dirt is more compelling viewing. Hideously overrated is a bit harsh. He was asked to work with some guys who were non-wrestlers, immobile or completely unsuited to the job and those awful, awful matches were usually in high-profile situations. And he was also asked to stay at least 5-10 years past the age he should have retired. (I mean, he could have said no, but those Trump campaigns aren't going to fund themselves? I guess?) He had great matches with the guys you would expect him to have great matches with. I'm not sure anyone was better at pageantry and "sports entertainment". As a worker, I'd say he was great for a big man of the 80s-90s... which would firmly put him as average today. It is somewhat telling that when allowed to bring in his own guys, he had one of the worst tag matches of all time. As a person... I really want to dunk on him. He brutalized Chris Kanyon for the reasons you'd expect, hangs out with the Harris Twins and had a rep as Vince's personal muscle... which he definitely abused. As a performer, when people tell me the Undertaker is the best and get that gleam in their eye, I just let them have their moment, and let them like who them like. And die a bit inside.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 03:16
|
|
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:It's especially silly when you consider that Jim Cornette will put over Bobby Eaton to anybody who will listen. he’s beautiful you piece of poo poo it’s in his god damned name! I will suffer no mx slander!
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 02:31
|
|
|
The character of Undertaker is great but there's only so much you can do with it and Biker Taker sucked poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 02:47
|
|
|
Undertaker was more presentation than anything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 10:47
|
|
|
hm. Perhaps.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 11:48
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Undertaker was more presentation than anything. Especially on the mic. Just look at any promo where he didn't just roll his eyes back and say "rest in peace."
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 12:20
|
|
|
He wasn't that exceptional, so they played up a lot of the "ceremony" and pageantry. When it came to The Undertaker.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 12:47
|
|
|
Taker should do pageants
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 13:24
|
|
|
I think Taker is overrated in a lot of ways but he is definitely one of the best ever as far as presence/presentation goes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 13:26
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Especially on the mic. Just look at any promo where he didn't just roll his eyes back and say "rest in peace." Erm, I think you're forgetting the classic promo where Big Show got left in the desert??
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 13:44
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:Erm, I think you're forgetting the classic promo where Big Show got left in the desert?? We took the scorpions out of our boots and ate them and they stung us and it hurt but we ate them anyway and
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 18:21
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Especially on the mic. Just look at any promo where he didn't just roll his eyes back and say "rest in peace." One of my favorite Undertaker moments is this time at a mid-90s PPV when they show him answering questions from fans over the phone. This little kid asks about why he turned on Jake the Snake and something about Hogan (both long gone from the company) and Undertaker, in full character, just stammers trying to come up with a response. It's awkward as hell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:Erm, I think you're forgetting the classic promo where Big Show got left in the desert?? Please someone link this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 19:17
|
|
|
Pope Corky the IX posted:Please someone link this. https://youtu.be/lKzpOPIil-M I got you buddy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 19:42
|
|
|
That reminds me of someone here saying they fell asleep with that promo on, woke up during the replay of Raw, it was back on the promo again and they assumed Undertaker had been talking for hours
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:https://youtu.be/lKzpOPIil-M Thank you my friend. I really thought this had happened when he was Biker Taker. EDIT: Honestly, if he had ended it with “and I drove off and left him” it would have been amazing. Pope Corky the IX fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
Taker/Edge stuff was good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 21:08
|
|
|
D.N. Nation posted:Taker/Edge stuff was good. But is that because Edge is better then most at wrestling? Edge feels like someone that could elevate his opponent, not at a Brett Hart level, but able to pull an above average match out of anyone.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 22:48
|
|
|
Pope Corky the IX posted:Taker should do pageants Just teach him how to vogue. He should already be able to do a death drop
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 05:55
|
|
|
Seeing a Tiger Driver '91 for the first time got me curious about the guy, Misawa, what's his deal. What's some good matches of his to check out? Why's he look so pissed all the time? Is it true that the move was a botch? Is that true for other hosed up looking moves like the Burning Hammer? It's a bummer how he died I was reading about it and it made me feel bad. NJPW World has a match from 2002 between him and Chono and a tag match from 2005 but that's it. Wrestle Universe just has a memorial show.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 19:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 07:01 |
|
|
apophenium posted:Seeing a Tiger Driver '91 for the first time got me curious about the guy, Misawa, what's his deal. What's some good matches of his to check out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP879hZ3DxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpw7uZPVad0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdAVWuR7x5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2OLvGT5ROU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYVtaBIVPw
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 19:19
|
|
