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DaveKap posted:It's comical to me that anyone would ever call Diablo 4 a game for casual ARPG players when you have to apparently watch a 12 minute video just to understand how damage is calculated. But you dont have to, unless your definition of casual is "someone who kills uber lilith"
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Jun 25, 2023 11:18
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I just watched a little bit of that video and got to the part where it shows how vague and incorrect the tooltips are and I've now gone from "Diablo 4 is good and fun" to "I hate Diablo 4."
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Jun 25, 2023 11:19
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odinson posted:That reminds me. Saw this guide that goes a little bit deeper down the damage bucket well. He is/uses necro for the examples, but the concepts are universal. wtf
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Jun 25, 2023 11:35
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Wuxi posted:I wonder what their plan is with the damage buckets since poo poo is blatantly unbalanced right now. On rogue you're never ever using a bow since crossbows are just objectively better in every situation with their +vuln damage implicit and the same is somewhat true for swords vs daggers as well. There will be thousands of patches that change the game (then get unpatched, then repatched differently...) before this thing dies and a stat squish should probably be several of them. I think they were aiming for less generalized stats but wound up getting to the same place in the end regardless.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:08
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What's the deal with silent chests? Do they have cool uniques or something? I've not opened that many but they've been uniformly just the same poo poo as regular chests that don't cost me obols.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:20
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much like d3 this game was a big bait and switch starts strong and seems like a good game then just nothing happens for 20 hours and you stop playing
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Jun 25, 2023 12:23
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This is what I was saying. They should have had a season journey in at launch so players know when the game is done
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Jun 25, 2023 12:29
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Maxroll.gg has a written guide that explains the damage formula. As far as I know the real one isn't known yet but it should be close enough. https://maxroll.gg/d4/getting-started/damage-for-beginners They have a nice list of the additive bonuses though. quote:The following damage bonuses belong to this additive category:
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Jun 25, 2023 12:30
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Wuxi posted:I wonder what their plan is with the damage buckets since poo poo is blatantly unbalanced right now. On rogue you're never ever using a bow since crossbows are just objectively better in every situation with their +vuln damage implicit and the same is somewhat true for swords vs daggers as well. They didn't have a plan.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:31
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I can't tell from this thread if this game is actually bad, or if it's a good game that quickly gets you addicted, causing you to play for 200 hours in the space of a few weeks, so you end up getting burnt out and grow to hate it, because ultimately human beings aren't supposed to do that much of the same activity in that short a span of time.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:36
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The Grumbles posted:I can't tell from this thread if this game is actually bad, or if it's a good game that quickly gets you addicted, causing you to play for 200 hours in the space of a few weeks, so you end up getting burnt out and grow to hate it, because ultimately human beings aren't supposed to do that much of the same activity in that short a span of time. it's a competent game but i got bored by level 50ish, there's not much to do besides the campaign
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Jun 25, 2023 12:38
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Finally coming out of my cow level induced haze; need a dungeon group.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:40
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DaveKap posted:I consider all 4 games very different from each other, with 4 feeling closest to 2. I think it's very easy to love or hate any and all of the titles mutually and exclusively. There is no pattern here.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:41
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The Grumbles posted:I can't tell from this thread if this game is actually bad, or if it's a good game that quickly gets you addicted, causing you to play for 200 hours in the space of a few weeks, so you end up getting burnt out and grow to hate it, because ultimately human beings aren't supposed to do that much of the same activity in that short a span of time. It's not bad, superficially it's a good game but if you start looking below the surface - and if you're able to do this, it means you have a general understanding of the genre, lots of hours in similar titles and lots of hours in this as well - you notice it's missing quite a bit of content. It won't create any new addiction you didn't already have, otherwise you'd have 500+ logged hours in D2, D3, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile and/or Last Epoch.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:42
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Janitor Ludwich IV posted:it's a competent game but i got bored by level 50ish, there's not much to do besides the campaign There's plenty to do outside of the campaign. Whether you want to do it or not is a separate question. odinson posted:That reminds me. Saw this guide that goes a little bit deeper down the damage bucket well. He is/uses necro for the examples, but the concepts are universal. This should go in the OP Kaddish fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jun 25, 2023 |
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Jun 25, 2023 12:43
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The Grumbles posted:I can't tell from this thread if this game is actually bad, or if it's a good game that quickly gets you addicted, causing you to play for 200 hours in the space of a few weeks, so you end up getting burnt out and grow to hate it, because ultimately human beings aren't supposed to do that much of the same activity in that short a span of time. it's not enough for me to buy the game, but not everyone's a bitter old depressed millennial incapable of enjoying things, and few things obviously trump nostalgia. and let's be honest, if the game were better, a lot of angry nerds would still not be able to enjoy it for reasons that aren't blizzard's fault the gaming discourse where everyone's complaining about "games these days" is a lot like the story of the reviews for scented candles on amazon cratering because people caught covid and couldn't smell them anymore. some people aren't able to enjoy things as much as they used to, sometimes for valid reasons, sometimes for stupid reasons i like to watch anime not because it tends to be high art, but because i like turning off my brain and chilling; not everything needs to be scorsese cinema, as long as you can see something for what it is without having to feel ashamed or smug about it i think it's a shame diablo 4 isn't better than it is, but it's not shameful nor wrong to still be able to enjoy it kliras fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jun 25, 2023 |
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Jun 25, 2023 12:43
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Kaddish posted:There's plenty to do outside of the campaign. Whether you want to do it or not is a separate question. This is true, if you really like the game you can smash demons for days. It plays pretty similarly to D3 but I never really pushed D3 that hard either. You walk into a room, everything melts then you loot and see if you got an upgrade, you can do this for as long as you want!
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Jun 25, 2023 12:49
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The game's biggest sin is that they didn't have WT5 ready for--or are deliberately withholding it from--release. Its just is a whole can of worms where nothing about the XP curve or power curves makes any loving sense past level 80. It probably contributes to the Level 820 uniques being so obscenely unobtainably rare, because ilevel 820 items basically never drop at any point at any level and the best guess is that an ilvl820 item has to drop AND roll unique AND roll as THAT unique. It's missing another item tier and an 825 affix breakpoint
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Jun 25, 2023 12:51
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By any objective standard Diablo 4 is a good game that gives pretty hearty value for its cost, though by its nature and a few design missteps it is very repetitive. An example would be that the enemy roster is actually pretty varied and interesting but it feels like 1/2 of it is a lot rarer to see unless you're in specific regions. Cannibals, Drowned, Snake Monsters, Maggots, Lycanthropes, Knights, Vampires all seem to be a bit too region/act locked and the game feels much smaller when you fight Skeletons/Bandits/Skeletons/Fallen/Ghosts/Demons back to back. The assets already exist so hopefully they can fix this with a QoL patch and tune up. I'd remind all the terminally ARPG brained that any game that lasts longer than 40 hours is considered an abominable beast across most genres. A ten hour campaign that feels good and ends well is a good game. $70 brand new is a pretty big ask if you only think you'll stick around for the campaign. If you want to remember a good old fashioned ARPG campaign like beating Diablo 2 first time then D4 has you covered with a nice campaign and a story that clears the D3 bar handily. Then you can press your class of choice until you become too aware of the treadmill. If you want to slap the campaign once and then go hog wild doing completionism(try everything once, fill renown, see if any of the side quests are good, do all the strongholds, grind some cheevos, do some hell tides, fight a world boss, clear some NMs and play with builds paragons a bit) then it's pretty robust for any game. If you want to steadily fill out completionism ticks and try every class and see what seasons are about and claim a hardcore clear or other trophies then it's even chunkier. There's also PvP, for as much as that means to you in a Diablo game. It reminds me heartily of D2 PvP, at least. If you want to absolutely push to the limits, hit NM 100 and kill Uber Lilith then surprise, it's as repetitive as the genre is known for and currently a bit flawed, lacking quite the polish of games with 5+ years of post-release content and QoL. It has still hooked people into having a good time for 100+ hours. The good news is your $70 is a one time purchase and all that is practically guaranteed to be on the way unless Blizzard goes full insane and doesn't support the game, or worse, full "vision" insane and makes the game lovely because a director has ARPG brain cancer. We'll see how Season 1 goes but the developer fireside stream was a good sign. Oh and everything I just said gets radically better with a reliable group of friends as per the Laws of Co-Op.
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Jun 25, 2023 12:52
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It's a pretty good game and a bunch of people here have brain worms
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Jun 25, 2023 12:53
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Black Griffon posted:It's a pretty good game and a bunch of people here have brain worms
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Jun 25, 2023 12:54
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i think its good but with some very glaring issues that will likely be fixed. im glad i got it at launch bc some irl friends are playing it at wildly varying levels of play and it plays quite well as a casual monster punching game or an obsessively min max obsessed number crunch game. they feel like two very seperate games in a sense and i think it succeeds at both of them but the late game is the weaker of the two but also where the dev attention is likely to be focused
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Jun 25, 2023 13:00
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license error still day 2... cool cool just want to play singeplayer campaign, love this always online feature
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Jun 25, 2023 13:04
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soscannonballs posted:that aspect is actually terrible it only increases your base essence regen which is 3, so a max roll will take you from 3 > 4 per second which is worthless. Even a min roll Umbral from the codex will give you way more essence. The exposed flesh aspect might take you a while to get, but you can just use any random dps aspect and it will probably be better than the essence regen one
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Jun 25, 2023 13:07
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My wife and I have been playing this on PS5 and are in the mid 20s, and just absolutely getting our rear end kicked doing campaign quests in WT2. Neither one of us are new to the series (we played D2 when we were dating and put 1000s of hours into D3 from the moment it hit consoles), but the systems in place just seem really overwhelming. I'm a Barb and she's a Sorc if that makes any sort of difference. I'm skimming this thread and seeing a bunch of chat about damage numbers so maybe I'll go do homework for this dumb video game so we can have fun with it. I thought about dropping down to WT1 but the idea of leveling up slower than we already are isn't very appealing either. We just wanna kill poo poo and get cool loot! 
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Jun 25, 2023 13:10
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EC posted:My wife and I have been playing this on PS5 and are in the mid 20s, and just absolutely getting our rear end kicked doing campaign quests in WT2. Neither one of us are new to the series (we played D2 when we were dating and put 1000s of hours into D3 from the moment it hit consoles), but the systems in place just seem really overwhelming. I'm a Barb and she's a Sorc if that makes any sort of difference. most of the brainwormers already calculated that wt1 is far more efficient and WT2 is b asically pointless except if you want the extra challenge
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Jun 25, 2023 13:11
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There's a few power curve bumps with gear(i.e. legendaries start dropping around 15), letting your weapon fall behind too much, and leveling for new tiers of skills and more passives synergy. Just drop to WT1 for awhile. The speed of clearing content quickly is better XP than doing WT2 slowly.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:12
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Drop down to wt1 anyway. Time you’re wasting getting your rear end kicked is offsetting the xp bonus being in wt2, which isn’t even that significant.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:15
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At level 52 it sucks to spend 20-30 minutes in a Helltide and have that time wasted, that's just really unfriendly design. Dying to an off screen one shot or a lag spike & losing 50% progress, knowing you don't have enough time to make it up? That sucks and is really discouraging. There shouldn't be a mechanic in a modern game where 20-30 minutes gets you nothing. The current way it's set up encourages just leeching from other players in the event which is also just bad design. The optimal play should not be leeching other people's kills. You should be rewarded for actually getting out there and taking on (level appropriate) challenging content. And since you cannot respawn in town & will respawn at a "checkpoint" with no minions or buffs, it's really easy to die twice and lose 75% progress. bus hustler fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jun 25, 2023 |
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Jun 25, 2023 13:20
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Blizzard art team made some really cool rogue bows but you'll never see them because another team decided crossbows are 100% mechanically superior because of +vulnerable damage as a guarantee.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:24
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bus hustler posted:At level 52 it sucks to spend 20-30 minutes in a Helltide and have that time wasted, that's just really unfriendly design. Dying to an off screen one shot or a lag spike & losing 50% progress, knowing you don't have enough time to make it up? That sucks and is really discouraging. There shouldn't be a mechanic in a modern game where 20-30 minutes gets you nothing. There should be risk and reward and if you don't risk anything then you might as well just watch someone else play the game. You might need some damage reduction %, some defense aspects, and stop standing in monster effects. Prioritize ranged enemies. Don't play a internet game on crappy internet. WT3 is where it forces you to pay attention for the first time. E: helms and chest are your best +life pieces, chest +legs have the best % defense stats if I remember right. satanic splash-back fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jun 25, 2023 |
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Jun 25, 2023 13:25
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Wuxi posted:I wonder what their plan is with the damage buckets since poo poo is blatantly unbalanced right now. On rogue you're never ever using a bow since crossbows are just objectively better in every situation with their +vuln damage implicit and the same is somewhat true for swords vs daggers as well. Every class that can use 2H swords is almost using 2H swords exclusively. And while HoTA Barbs aren't, that is just for the reason that HoTA is 2H Bludgeon only, which is literally seen as a negative for HoTA based builds.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:27
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The reward you get at the minimum is fun playing the game If it’s not fun don’t do it.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:28
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Crossbows are lame and if not using them means I can't push high level nms which I'm unlikely to do anyway so be it. I'm not 100% confident they'll even address the damage problem, at least any time soon.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:29
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EC posted:My wife and I have been playing this on PS5 and are in the mid 20s, and just absolutely getting our rear end kicked doing campaign quests in WT2. Neither one of us are new to the series (we played D2 when we were dating and put 1000s of hours into D3 from the moment it hit consoles), but the systems in place just seem really overwhelming. I'm a Barb and she's a Sorc if that makes any sort of difference. This is my first Diablo experience and honestly following a build made by someone who actually knows this poo poo has made my first play through enjoyable. https://d4builds.gg/ I used the Chain Lightning Leveling Sorcerer build and have been blasting through everything. Do dungeons that give your class supporting aspects and pay attention to equipment/weapon bonuses. As a total newbie, I think I was also around level 20 when things started to click.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:33
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bus hustler posted:There shouldn't be a mechanic in a modern game where 20-30 minutes gets you nothing. I mean, that's a large portion of the game. You're spending that 30 minutes on the chance that you'll get something. Thankfully it's not the chests you want in a helltide, it's the souls. I can see a relatively early addition to the game (in the "cheered for fixing the problem you caused" category) being a toggle for just not having other players. It sounds a whole lot easier than trying to work out how to sync the xbox guy in Florida with an old wireless access point to the guy in Germany playing tethered to his phone.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:36
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As a stopgap, they should let you transmog crossbows into regular bows.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:49
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satanic splash-back posted:There should be risk and reward and if you don't risk anything then you might as well just watch someone else play the game. That's cool and all but the vast majority of deaths I have had are "oh the game that normally runs smoothly at 60fps and below 150ms just held up for several seconds and I loaded back in dead" or "oh cool a pack spawned beneath my feet, triggered by ??? (probably something in the effect maelstrom) and nuked me instantly". I have not felt in control of the vast majority of my deaths so far. I've watched a bunch of streamers play hardcore and aside from a couple of very late game people who are doing the turn-up-and-nuke thing themselves, it looks loving miserable playing like you're terrified. No idea how people do it tbh. Mailer posted:I mean, that's a large portion of the game. You're spending that 30 minutes on the chance that you'll get something. There's a (psychological) difference between just not getting a drop, and actively getting resources and then losing them again. You're not wrong mechanically, but one definitely feels worse.
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Jun 25, 2023 13:52
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I don't know how many hours I have in the game, probably over 100. I haven't died a single time, to my knowledge, due to lag/disconnects/whatever. Just throwing it out there.
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Jun 25, 2023 14:06
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Thanks y'all, gonna lower the difficulty and maybe glance at a few builds to see how far off we were from making anything effective.
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Jun 25, 2023 14:06
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