Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Kyiv post says that Russia has completed preparations for the ZNPP destruction.

Staying for information. Not because I know this to be true. But it's been talked about for months now so I'm unsure.

If the ZNPP is destroyed that's gonna be an Article 5 invocation and all bets are off

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:30

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# ? May 31, 2024 01:38

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

HonorableTB posted:

If the ZNPP is destroyed that's gonna be an Article 5 invocation and all bets are off

At minimum its going to enrage the EU, at max it'll be the EU throwing their full weight behind Ukraine.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:32

zone: Dec 6, 2016

What's the tactical advantage of begging for air support on Telegram?
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1673072580104798213

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:32

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

HonorableTB posted:

If the ZNPP is destroyed that's gonna be an Article 5 invocation and all bets are off

That I have no doubt of.

Apparently the thing is in a 1 day cycle and the "meltdown" is supposed to happen in the next 16 hours?

I have no serious clue on this.

But we will know if it's bullshit pretty drat soon.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:33

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Flamethrowers? Is that a translation issue?

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:34

zone: Dec 6, 2016

The Lone Badger posted:

Flamethrowers? Is that a translation issue?

they're referring to the TOS-1 rocket launchers.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:35

Ronwayne: Nov 20, 2007; That warm and fuzzy feeling.

whiskas posted:

I feel like he's destined to be thrown out of a window at some point in the future. If only to be made of as an example. He's no longer useful to Putin, and assasinating him would strengthen Putins position as someone not to be crossed.

This is Hellworld, so the stupidest possible option was in a winner takes all zero sum game for both participants to be left standing. Possibly even long term, somehow

Comedy-horror option, Prig defects to the west, they get all the info they can out of him, and then the U.S. exchanges him for Snowden and then both russia and the u.s. govts make extremely public examples, in their own respective ways.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:36

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

That I have no doubt of.

Apparently the thing is in a 1 day cycle and the "meltdown" is supposed to happen in the next 16 hours?

I have no serious clue on this.

But we will know if it's bullshit pretty drat soon.

If the ZNPP is in actual imminent meltdown I feel like we'd be hearing a lot more about it than we currently are.

CommieGIR posted:

At minimum its going to enrage the EU, at max it'll be the EU throwing their full weight behind Ukraine.

With the recent US resolution specifically calling the ZNPP destruction an article 5 invocation, I can't imagine if the US is pushing for it that the rest of NATO would fail to go along. It also wouldn't surprise me if, should the plant get spicy, Poland and the Baltic States would invoke Article IV to discuss invoking Article V if they saw the US doing nothing, which would force the issue.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:38

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

Ronwayne posted:

Comedy-horror option, Prig defects to the west, they get all the info they can out of him, and then the U.S. exchanges him for Snowden and then both russia and the u.s. govts make extremely public examples, in their own respective ways.

Prig defects to the West, and some day 10 years from now I meet a humble hot dog vendor with a really interesting backstory

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:38

Ronwayne: Nov 20, 2007; That warm and fuzzy feeling.

Time is a polonium circle.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:39

madmatt112: Jul 11, 2016; Can't post for 2 hours!

Spike-Me-Own-Tea Priggy

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:42

the popes toes: Oct 10, 2004

Tiny Timbs posted:

Prig defects to the West, and some day 10 years from now I meet a humble hot dog vendor with a really interesting backstory

On the hot dog thing. It's not a culinary calling or attachment that maybe even humanizes him in the least. Operating food service establishments is a common money-laundering vehicle.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:43

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-agents-threat-family-made-204246993.html

quote:

Russian intelligence services threatened to harm the families of Wagner leaders before Yevgeny Prigozhin called off his advance on Moscow, according to UK security sources.

It has also been assessed that the mercenary force had only 8,000 fighters rather than the 25,000 claimed and faced likely defeat in any attempt to take the Russian capital.

Vladimir Putin will now try to assimilate Wagner Group soldiers into the Russian military and take out its former leaders, according to insights shared with The Telegraph.

The analysis offers clues into the mystery of why Prigozhin, the Wagner Group leader, called off his mutinous march on Moscow on Saturday just hours before reaching the capital.

There remains speculation about what formal deal was struck, if any. The Kremlin said on Saturday that Prigozhin would head to Belarus in exchange for a pardon from charges of treason.

There has been no comment from Prigozhin over the suggestion. It also remains unclear if Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, is set to be demoted or fired, as Prigozhin demanded.

On Sunday, the Russian MP Andrey Gurulyov, a prominent Kremlin propagandist, said there was �no option� but for Prigozhin and another high-profile Wagner figure to be executed.

Putin has not been seen in public since addressing the nation on Saturday morning, but a pre-recorded interview filmed earlier in the week was played on state television on Sunday.

In the interview, Putin expressed confidence in realising plans for what he continues to call the �special military operation� in Ukraine.

Reports emerged that the United States was aware of a possible Wagner mutiny days before it happened, with The Washington Post quoting an official saying they knew �something was up�.

Figures in Washington, DC were said to have become concerned that Putin could lose control of his nuclear arsenal if a full coup was mounted against the Kremlin.

Russia�s ministry of defence said Ukraine used the chaos unleashed by Prigozhin�s coup attempt to step up its attacks around Bakhmut in Donbas. On Sunday, Ukraine�s military said that it had taken ground.

�Any chaos behind the enemy lines works in our interests,� said Ukrainian foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba.

The British ministry of defence also said that Ukraine had increased its attacks over the past few days and had refined their tactics against �well prepared� Russian defences.

�Ukrainian units are making gradual but steady tactical progress in key areas,� it said in its morning intelligence briefing.

Ukraine launched its much-vaunted counteroffensive against Russia�s frontline around three weeks ago but had made slow progress.

Analysts have said that the distraction of Prigozhin�s coup attempt may have weakened Russia�s frontline.

The Kremlin didn�t withdraw any units to defend Moscow against Wagner fighters but Prigozhin called for regular army soldiers to desert.

�So this raises profound questions�
On Sunday, Antony Blinken, the US Secretary of State, said that the armed uprising in Russia exposed �real cracks� in Putin�s authority after he was forced into an amnesty deal.

Mr Blinken told CBS News that the development marked �a direct challenge to Putin�s authority. So this raises profound questions, it shows real cracks�.

The impact of the Wagner mutiny on the battlefield in Ukraine remains to be seen. Ukraine said fresh gains in its counter-offensive had been made over the weekend.

The Kremlin has said that Wagner soldiers who did not take part in the coup will be taken into the Russian defence forces while claiming that those who did not will no longer be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, members of Russia�s convict army have issued threats against Prigozhin, claiming he betrayed them by abandoning the Kremlin coup attempt.

A video posted online by the prisoners-turned-fighters accused Prigozhin of �cowardice�, saying his supporters had been �double crossed� and now faced retribution.

One of the Storm-Z soldiers could be heard saying that Prigozhin had �promised everything� to them and then �turned the steering wheel in the other direction�.

What, did he expect the Russian agents not to threaten his family? Is he this loving stupid? Or is it Prigozhin finally finding out what every day life looks like for regular Russians? Being an oligarch, does he seriously not know how power is secured in Russia? This is babbys first coup poo poo, jfc. His 25,000 supersoldiers was a bluff too it seemed, analysts think he only had 8,000 at most (which, tbf, is still a sizeable force that would require work to deal with when the Russians could least afford it)

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jun 26, 2023

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:55

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

And on the flip side, Ukraine managed to gain ground.

This headline is fantastic lol

"Ukraine managed to gain ground in Ukraine as Russia faced off against Russia in Russia posted:

While Russia scrambled to defend itself from its own paramilitary forces on Saturday, Ukrainian leaders said their own forces managed to make advancements in Russian-occupied territory.

The Wagner Group, a Russian mercenary organization led by Yevgeny Prigozhin � a former ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin � marched across Russia on Saturday, coming within hours of Moscow. Prigozhin then ordered his fighters to turn around, claiming he wanted to avoid bloodshed.

His point was apparently made.

Meanwhile, far from the internal drama unfolding in Russia, Ukraine's counter-offensive � which began earlier this month � continued.

Hanna Maliar, Ukraine's deputy minister of defense, said Saturday that Ukrainian forces launched new counter-offensives in the country's east and were holding Russian forces in defensive positions in the south.

"The eastern group of troops today began an offensive in several directions simultaneously," she said on Twitter, according to a translation.

Those advances have yet to be independently confirmed.

The BBC reported that Ukraine has made advances since launching its counter-offensive on June 4, including in the days and hours before the Wagner Group's apparently brief insurrection. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, however, has called the progress "slower than desired."

While Ukraine continued its efforts to retake territory, Russia was forced to defend itself from itself.

Before the Wagner Group fighters turned back, Russian security officials were gearing up to defend Moscow. The capital's mayor said the city was imposing anti-terrorism measures and ordered residents to stay home from work on Monday.

Prigozhin called his advance on Moscow a "march for justice," claiming without evidence that Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu had ordered an air strike on Wagner forces in Ukraine on Friday. Tensions between the Wagner boss and Russia's top military leaders had been simmering for months.

Amid the chaos in Russia, the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, and the vice-chair, Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, said Saturday they were monitoring "what appears to be a significant internal conflict among Russian forces,"

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-gained-ground-russia-wagner-group-prigozhin-uprising-march-moscow-2023-6

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:59

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

HonorableTB posted:

If the ZNPP is in actual imminent meltdown I feel like we'd be hearing a lot more about it than we currently are.

With the recent US resolution specifically calling the ZNPP destruction an article 5 invocation, I can't imagine if the US is pushing for it that the rest of NATO would fail to go along. It also wouldn't surprise me if, should the plant get spicy, Poland and the Baltic States would invoke Article IV to discuss invoking Article V if they saw the US doing nothing, which would force the issue.

A non-binding resolution in congress doesn't mean poo poo, it's worth its weight in toilet paper. Without the POTUS' say-so, destruction of the ZNPP would not be grounds for Article 5 invocation. Besides the fact that Article 5 specifically calls for NATO countries to aid in the way they think best, to the best of their ability, which could be direct armed support to the attacked nation, or simply a get-well-soon card. The collective defense clause is written pretty similarly to the one in the EU treaty, in that the repercussions are purposely vague to discourage potential boundary-pushing by aggressor nations. Also, I don't think that European NATO members would be as all-in on an Art 5 declaration by the US over a popped power plant a thousand miles from a NATO border than if nuclear weapons were detonated over/in Poland.

Senator Graham does not run the USA.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jun 26, 2023

# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:59

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

orange juche posted:

A resolution in congress doesn't mean poo poo, it's worth its weight in toilet paper. Without the POTUS' say-so, destruction of the ZNPP would not be grounds for Article 5 invocation. Besides the fact that Article 5 specifically calls for NATO countries to aid in the way they think best, to the best of their ability, which could be direct armed support to the attacked nation, or simply a get-well-soon card. The collective defense clause is written pretty similarly to the one in the EU treaty, in that the repercussions are purposely vague to discourage potential boundary-pushing by aggressor nations. Also, I don't think that European NATO members would be as all-in on an Art 5 declaration by the US over a popped power plant a thousand miles from a NATO border than if nuclear weapons were detonated over/in Poland.

In a vacuum yes, but you would be very naive to think that something that is one of the only bipartisan things left in this country would make it through a Republican held Congress with Democratic Senate support under a Democratic president without the actual President approving of it. Resolutions are easy ways to signal without having to deal with the House Insanity Caucus torpedoing it because it doesn't have a rider that allows genocide of trans people or something if you went through a bill.

You do not need to pass a law to make a statement. This is literally what Congressional resolutions are intended to be used for, for what it's worth. This wasn't Lindsey Graham being a warhawk (though he is one), this was a bipartisan thing with significant Dem support and Blumenthal was there announcing it alongside Graham

Also...I do not think you are very familiar with the reaction of Europe the last time "a nuclear power plant popped a thousand miles from a NATO border"

chernobyl literally happened in the same country and caused a gigantic humanitarian and environmental catastrophe within living memory of the majority of people and is still being dealt with... and ZNPP is larger than Chernobyl, and this makes the multiple NATO member states nearby justifiably nervous (Poland, Bulgaria, Turkey, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania all in danger from radioactive contamination depending on how the wind blows)

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 26, 2023

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:01

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

During the Cold War, the Soviets noticed the building in the center of the pentagon. They assumed it must be an especially important bunker, and were disappointed when their agents claimed it was the pentagon "hotdog stand".

The stand was torn down in 2006. Two years later, Prigozhin (former "hotdog stand" owner) was put in charge of Dmitry Medvedev's inauguration as president.

He's a CIA plant.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 26, 2023

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:06

Mal-3: Oct 21, 2008

HonorableTB posted:

If the ZNPP is in actual imminent meltdown I feel like we'd be hearing a lot more about it than we currently are.

IAEA still has people onsite, and if the Russians were rigging the damned thing to pop you'd think they'd be screaming blue murder right about now.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:26

god please help me: Jul 9, 2018; I LOVE GIVING MY TAX MONEY AND MY PERSONAL INCOME TO UKRAINE, SLAVA

Their voices are hoarse from all the torture.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:31

El Jebus: Jun 18, 2008; This avatar is paid for by "Avatars for improving Lowtax's spine by any means that doesn't result in him becoming brain dead by putting his brain into a cyborg body and/or putting him in a exosuit due to fears of the suit being hacked and crushing him during a cyberpunk future timeline" Foundation

zone posted:

What's the tactical advantage of begging for air support on Telegram?

The tactical advantage is someone might see your message and respond. If they had a secure radio system to communicate the need back to command, they'd likely use it.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:35

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

pretzel logic has evolved to piroshky logic

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1673113539509092356?s=20

Prigozhin gone mole-mode

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1673120328963485697?s=20

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:38

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Mal-3 posted:

IAEA still has people onsite, and if the Russians were rigging the damned thing to pop you'd think they'd be screaming blue murder right about now.

Yeah the plant should be in cold shutdown, the bigger issue is the destruction of the plant itself.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:39

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

HonorableTB posted:

With the recent US resolution specifically calling the ZNPP destruction an article 5 invocation, I can't imagine if the US is pushing for it that the rest of NATO would fail to go along. It also wouldn't surprise me if, should the plant get spicy, Poland and the Baltic States would invoke Article IV to discuss invoking Article V if they saw the US doing nothing, which would force the issue.

Putin is certainly hoping they invoke Article IX instead

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:45

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

lmao i think the shahed delivery route has kicked into high gear

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1672914355082461184?s=20

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:48

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

New thread title: Chef Boyar P's insurrection souffle fails to rise

??

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:52

Waffle House: Oct 27, 2004; You follow the path
fitting into an infinite pattern.

Yours to manipulate, to destroy and rebuild.

Now, in the quantum moment
before the closure
when all become one.

One moment left.
One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.

HonorableTB posted:

lmao i think the shahed delivery route has kicked into high gear

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1672914355082461184?s=20

They should just rope them all together and make a bridge IMO

# ? Jun 26, 2023 04:53

Fuckstick: Nov 30, 2000

Carth Dookie posted:

New thread title: Chef Boyar P's insurrection souffle fails to rise

??

Hot dog man turned out to be just a weenie.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 05:12

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

come on Chef Boyar Z is right there

# ? Jun 26, 2023 05:15

Captain Invictus: Apr 5, 2005; Try reading some manga!; Clever Betty

Chef Boyar Z's spaghetti and no balls

# ? Jun 26, 2023 05:20

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

madmatt112 posted:

Spike-Me-Own-Tea Priggy

# ? Jun 26, 2023 05:23

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

nope d'etat

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:05

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

Rust Martialis posted:

nope d'etat

noo d'etat

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:07

CAT INTERCEPTOR: Nov 9, 2004; Basically a male Margaret Thatcher

madmatt112 posted:

Spike-Me-Own-Tea Priggy

Oh thats gooooood

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:09

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

madmatt112 posted:

Spike-Me-Own-Tea Priggler

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:20

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/25/7408507/

quote:

Plan of terrorist act at Zaporizhzhia NPP approved, world attention insufficient � Zelenskyy

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that the Russians have developed and approved the scenario of a terrorist attack on the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).

Source: the President�s evening address

Details: Zelenskyy noted that he discussed threats at the ZNPP with US President Joe Biden, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Polish President Andrzej Duda on Sunday evening.

Quote: "I shared with our partners the information we have, the information from our intelligence, about the Russian scenario of mining the Zaporizhzhia NPP, which has obviously been approved by terrorists.

We must take very specific steps � all together in the world � to prevent any radiation accidents."

More details: Zelenskyy stressed that the world's attention to the existing Russian threat at the Zaporizhzhia NPP is "still insufficient."

"Just like the reaction to the Russians blowing up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant and the deliberate attempt by Russian terrorists to hit the dam of another reservoir in Kryvyi Rih � it is insufficient," he said.

Background:

On 20 June, Kyrylo Budanov, Chief of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine, supposed that the threat of an explosion at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power plant (ZNPP) was real, since the occupiers have additionally mined the cooler.

On 22 June, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Russia was probably preparing to commit a terrorist attack at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, which could lead to a radiation leak.

Later, Budanov said he was convinced that the plan to blow up the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) by Russians has been fully developed and approved, and the threat has never been as great as it is now.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:20

Carth Dookie: Jan 28, 2013

HonorableTB posted:

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/25/7408507/

If they're stupid enough to do it, I hope NATO thunder runs East Ukraine and Crimea.

Edit:

If I did happen, I could see Poland and other baltic states actually putting boots on the ground to help Ukraine. Don't know about more Western Europe, at least initially.

Carth Dookie fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Jun 26, 2023

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:22

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Rust Martialis posted:

nope d'etat

noup d'etat

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:27

Tarquinn: Jul 3, 2007; I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you
my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.; Hell Gem

nawilo_420 posted:

Hi posters, i never read or post in GBS but I checked it out just now for some war info (I definitely don't want to read the cspam or dnd threads), but is this the level of posting that happens here? Or is this guy just a moron and not indicative of the thread? Thanks, and god bless.

nawilo_420 posted:

yikes, guess it was my own mistake reading and posting in GBS. this is just reddit lol. ok bye!

I am late, but

:feelings:

Also, lol.

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:37

RBA-Wintrow: Nov 4, 2009; Clapping Larry

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Look it was not a coup. It was disgruntled Patriots making their vision clear. That's not a coup clearly Russia is stronger than ever and the war in Ukraine will continue without delay.

Speed limits are just very strictly enforced in Russia. Speeding? Drunk driving? Get shot at by helicopters. It is only natural that drivers arm themselves with AA then. It's an option for the new LDA model. It even comes with air-conditioning!

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:42

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# ? May 31, 2024 01:38

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

RBA-Wintrow posted:

Speed limits are just very strictly enforced in Russia. Speeding? Drunk driving? Get shot at by helicopters. It is only natural that drivers arm themselves with AA then. It's an option for the new LDA model. It even comes with air-conditioning!

Private companies having to hire people to man AA defenses and garrison factories is GOOD for Putin. It will spurr economic growth by adding thousands of new jobs to the economy

# ? Jun 26, 2023 06:46

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