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Henchman of Santa posted:That's just yet another Stephen King homage, I'm sure. "the teens" in this case means like the older teens, the ones that are like 17 years old that season. no one's making finn wolfhart and millie bobby brown do it, but there is a plotline about their halting first relationship stuff up through s4 and all that. maybe this ties into the overall conversation but the stuff in stranger things feels appropriate? like it's not forcing young kids to have sex, it's not IT (the novel), it's got roughly three different age groups of characters having their own relationship stuff and what's there is appropriate for each age. people seem to be polarizing into "people below 18 shouldn't be shown having any affection/romance/sexual desire in media" and "people below 18 are fuckin and suckin it like the rest of them" (my understanding is Euphoria is kinda like this, but i've never watched it so maybe I'm wrong) and the idea that "a pervert is forcing two teens to have sex" in Stranger Things is feeding that polarization instead of giving it more understanding and context.
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Jun 26, 2023 03:54
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Arivia posted:and the idea that "a pervert is forcing two teens to have sex" in Stranger Things is feeding that polarization instead of giving it more understanding and context. I didn't say forcing. What was the context for that scene then, with the creepy man (who I don't think the teens even knew at all?) having discussions about sex with them and urging them to get together? I'm not going to go back and watch it. Whoever mentioned Stephen King, it was very much that same feeling to the scene. I had no problem with the teens getting together, that was a believable romance. And there was nothing morally wrong about the romance stuff between the younger kids, it was just very forced and unnecessary.
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Jun 26, 2023 04:14
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I never saw the show but i always assumed it was about teens randomly burgling houses throughout the country. You know, taking things from a stranger.
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Jun 26, 2023 04:25
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More like oldupsidedownless!
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Jun 26, 2023 04:26
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oldpainless posted:I never saw the show but i always assumed it was about teens randomly burgling houses throughout the country. That's exactly what it's about good guess
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Jun 26, 2023 04:27
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run on sentience posted:I didn't say forcing. What was the context for that scene then, with the creepy man (who I don't think the teens even knew at all?) having discussions about sex with them and urging them to get together? I'm not going to go back and watch it. Whoever mentioned Stephen King, it was very much that same feeling to the scene. I had no problem with the teens getting together, that was a believable romance. And there was nothing morally wrong about the romance stuff between the younger kids, it was just very forced and unnecessary. "The creepy man" in question is Murray, the conspiracy theorist and former journalist. He appears at the beginning of S2 (so four episodes earlier), trying to talk to Hopper about the goings on at the Hawkins lab. Once Jonathan and Nancy (the teens in question) figure out that there's a cover-up at Hawkins, they look up Murray as a guy who can blow the whole thing wide open and go to tell him all the details of what's been going on. Murray's house is like a five hour or so drive from Hawkins, so the two teens end up spending a night in a motel along the way, then get to Murray's place and poo poo takes long enough they're going to have to spend the night there (instead of going to another motel.) At the same time in the plotting of the season, Nancy's broken up with Steve, so the love triangle between her and Jonathan is coming to the surface (this is in the very first episode of the series, when Jonathan is being a creep and taking pictures of the party Nancy and Steve are at.) After the break up, Nancy turns to Jonathan to blow the cover on Hawkins with her, because she believes he'll be a good partner for that kind of investigation. There's very obviously supposed to be romantic chemistry between them, and the two are in a "will they or won't they" scenario at the motel the night beforehand. When Murray goes "so you two done it yet or what" he's being crass and he's being immature, certainly, but it's set up as him picking up on the obvious signs between the two of them. As far as I remember, he doesn't watch, he doesn't force anything, he just smirks when they come out of the same bedroom the next morning. He's being a third party outside of social norms to push the relationship forward, not a creepy dude (in that sense, he is a weird shut-in conspiracy theorist with a literal tinfoil hat) who's getting off to it.
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Jun 26, 2023 04:28
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Mr Interweb posted:what do we think of this? beautifully crafted tweet meticulously designed to start the absolute worst conversations possible
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Jun 26, 2023 04:39
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I like how none of them realize it’s bc the stories are really boring. There’s a few apatow rom coms I really like, but I almost always skip the annoying fall out parts because they’re just so boring man. You can create drama plenty of other wise besides a dumb misunderstanding that leads to anger. How many times we gotta see the guy either get caught sorta kinda cheating but not really with another woman and the love interest getting upset and now we gotta spend another 20 mins of them all mopey and then they get back together uagh. Shut up!!
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Jun 26, 2023 04:50
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Part of me wishes Stranger Things had remained just that first season, or that it became an anthology. The final episode establishes some believable, interesting trajectories for the characters that suggest where they and the story might go. Aside from seeing Eleven and Hopper as feral weirdos trying to live together, none of that stuff was as satisfying to actually watch as the light suggestions given at the end of season one, at least to me. To bring things back to the teen romance question, I like that it ended with Nancy seeing Jonathan as an acquaintance she’s not totally sure she wants to be friends with, because why should she when they’ve only spent a week around each other and have nothing in common aside from needing to complete an adventure? And the same scene establishes that she’s not happy with Steve either, because their relationship is only a few months old and she’s starting to figure out that they don’t have very much in common. It’s much closer to emotional reality than what you’d usually get in genre stuff, and it feels like seasons two and three trend much closer the norm for genre stuff. I do like that, the most recent season excepted, Steve and Nancy never talk to each other again once she dumps him, and he just goes on a trajectory that has nothing to do with the other teen characters.
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Jun 26, 2023 05:02
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I AM GRANDO posted:Part of me wishes Stranger Things had remained just that first season, or that it became an anthology. The final episode establishes some believable, interesting trajectories for the characters that suggest where they and the story might go. Aside from seeing Eleven and Hopper as feral weirdos trying to live together, none of that stuff was as satisfying to actually watch as the light suggestions given at the end of season one, at least to me. yeah if i remember they're obviously trying to make nancy and steve a thing again in s4 and it's just like "why, he's a good guy but he's not the guy for her at all" that felt forced.
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Jun 26, 2023 05:03
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Season 2 of Stranger Things was such an abrupt decline in quality it felt like a fan fiction. It immediately answers every question left open by the first season and does an abrupt 180 into the cliche popular girl dumps her boyfriend for the nerdy outcast plot.
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Jun 26, 2023 05:32
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Romance seems to be the healthiest major media storyline tbh. Considering the others are money/fame and defeat/kill someone.
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Jun 26, 2023 05:50
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Also, kind of obvious, but watching people try to get what they want is far more entertaining and interesting than watching them have it.
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Jun 26, 2023 08:29
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Arivia posted:yeah if i remember they're obviously trying to make nancy and steve a thing again in s4 and it's just like "why, he's a good guy but he's not the guy for her at all" that felt forced. That season really presses Steve into a lead adventurer role overall, which does not suit the character as well as the semi-competent goodhearted buffoon he is in every other season. Seeing him rip off his shirt and go solo against monsters is weird.
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Jun 26, 2023 15:58
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I AM GRANDO posted:That season really presses Steve into a lead adventurer role overall, which does not suit the character as well as the semi-competent goodhearted buffoon he is in every other season. Seeing him rip off his shirt and go solo against monsters is weird. When stuff like this happens I can only assume someone decided to try pandering to the audience by turning the fan-favorite character into a big hero, even if that's explicitly not what people liked the character for in the first place.
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Jun 26, 2023 16:03
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Also RE: The Bear relationship one, I'm only 5 eps into Season 2, maybe I end up dead wrong but it absolutely seems written to suggest a possible relationship between those two, they have a few close scenes together before he starts dating that other girl, and it looks like its leading into a jealousy situation of him being distracted from the restaurant and her jealousy not being clear if its because of the work or something more. Not saying its gonna go that way, but theres nothing wrong with that person shipping them based on the text imo.
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Jun 26, 2023 16:19
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Stranger Things S4’s biggest problem is that there was obviously nobody at Netflix willing or able to tell the showrunners “no,” so it ended up being wildly over-produced and under-edited.
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Jun 26, 2023 17:52
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Blue Moonlight posted:Stranger Things S4’s biggest problem is that there was obviously nobody at Netflix willing or able to tell the showrunners “no,” so it ended up being wildly over-produced and under-edited. I can forgive S4 a lot of sins, because after 2 seasons of Scooby Doo nonsense holy poo poo it's finally horror again. It's a show that's set in the 80s again, instead of being a heavy handed pastiche of 80s movies. And I forgot how much fun the characters are and how much I love hanging out with them. I do think they chickened out by not killing off Max in the final episode though. Oh I'll also forgive it a lot of sins because the amazing subtitling. [epic synth remix of Running Up That Hill starts playing]
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Jun 26, 2023 19:51
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woke kaczynski posted:I mean I haven't done a poll or anything but of the handful of teens I know I wouldn't say there's any sort of generational backlash against romantic depictions in fiction, except the ones that suck. Kids are still out here writing fanfictions in 20 years zoomers will say the exact same thing about the people who are babies now, it's just the same thing over and over, even the boomers were once kids being poo poo on by the people who used to be flappers
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Jun 26, 2023 20:50
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Stranger Things leaned WAY too hard into the period accurate nostalgia trigger poo poo. I don't need my weird sci-fi to be historically accurate. It seemed like the nostalgia was the main draw for a lot of fans. Netflix does Ready Player One as a kid's show.
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Jun 26, 2023 21:15
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Blue Moonlight posted:Stranger Things S4’s biggest problem is that there was obviously nobody at Netflix willing or able to tell the showrunners “no,” so it ended up being wildly over-produced and under-edited. I really enjoy the slice-of-life stuff at the start of every season, so I liked all that slow ramp-up at the start. There’s no reason for a dungeons-and-dragons metal guy to be in the story at all (just have Dustin fill that story role instead and have the guts to kill him at the end), but he’s fun and creates many good character moments. There’s a sweet little scene in the first episode where he sells weed to a cheerleader who dies maybe 12 minutes later, and there’s no reason for them to have a character moment together, it’s a waste of screen time in terms of story efficiency, but it’s nice. All the dungeons and dragons and pizza delivery stuff is basically the same. Jonathan doesn’t need a weedlord friend, but he’s fun. I kind of think the Duffers would rather just make a family drama with some comic elements, or a comedy with some dramatic elements, with the same characters and setting. 85% of the Russia stuff and main bad guy backstory/fight are all extremely boring.
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Jun 26, 2023 21:38
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Although the true crime of Stranger Things is in refusing to give any of that extra time to the best character in the series, the science teacher. They invented like three extra featured characters for season 4 but couldn’t think of anything for the science teacher to do?
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Jun 26, 2023 21:50
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Blue Moonlight posted:Stranger Things S4’s biggest problem is that there was obviously nobody at Netflix willing or able to tell the showrunners “no,” so it ended up being wildly over-produced and under-edited. It’s big, loud and self indulgent and that rules
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Jun 26, 2023 21:56
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I AM GRANDO posted:
The russia stuff was so egregious lol, i really didnt need this midwest mom to become an action hero. In fact, i really didnt need any of the characters to become action heroes, theyre homeyness was what was charming in the first place!
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Jun 26, 2023 21:58
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I AM GRANDO posted:I really enjoy the slice-of-life stuff at the start of every season, so I liked all that slow ramp-up at the start. There’s no reason for a dungeons-and-dragons metal guy to be in the story at all (just have Dustin fill that story role instead and have the guts to kill him at the end), but he’s fun and creates many good character moments. There’s a sweet little scene in the first episode where he sells weed to a cheerleader who dies maybe 12 minutes later, and there’s no reason for them to have a character moment together, it’s a waste of screen time in terms of story efficiency, but it’s nice. Agreed. A big part of me is just burnt out on "the world needs to be saved". I think I'd like Stranger Things more if they took out all the, uh, stranger things. I guess it'd just be a weird 80s show called "Things" about nerdy kids playing DnD and working lovely mall jobs. Also I hate a romance when it feels obligatory. I don't know how you can actually define that. Maybe when the story would have been functionally the same if the romance didn't exist. Like if nothing about the story hinges on a romance, there's no point to that subplot existing. I was extremely pleasantly surprised when Shang-Chi didn't have Liu and Awkwafina getting together, or almost getting together, or even almost kissing. The male lead and the female lead were pals. It's insane that that felt notable to me.
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Jun 26, 2023 22:07
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Diet Poison posted:Agreed. A big part of me is just burnt out on "the world needs to be saved". I think I'd like Stranger Things more if they took out all the, uh, stranger things. I guess it'd just be a weird 80s show called "Things" about nerdy kids playing DnD and working lovely mall jobs.
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Jun 26, 2023 22:34
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Desert Bus posted:Stranger Things leaned WAY too hard into the period accurate nostalgia trigger poo poo. I don't need my weird sci-fi to be historically accurate. It seemed like the nostalgia was the main draw for a lot of fans. Yeah the only reason I stuck with any of it was because it was impressive to see so many corporate sponsors line-up to help construct period-accurate production design, and it is spooky to see all the detail, but at the same time while watching it I thought "this isn't healthy; this is the cultural equivalent of binging on donuts." It felt like a warm bath in the worst way. The kid actors are fresh-faced and good though, and if nothing else I'm relieved that they found things for the black kid to do that are beyond "token black character" without also making him "the representation of all non-white people." Oh and it was nifty to see Paul Reiser get to do "Burke, if Burke wasn't a piece of poo poo."
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Jun 26, 2023 22:45
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Sir Lemming posted:As a side effect, this killed the "save the world and get the girl" trope, which is probably for the best. And generally, the whole idea of a mandatory romantic subplot has been criticized long before this era. So it's not too surprising to see it fade away. I suppose it used to be considered the only way to get women to see an action movie, which is obviously no longer considered to be true. Exactly right, Hollywood used to be obsessed with the idea of blockbuster movies needing to be "four-quadrant movies" which appealed to their four main demographics: males under 25, males over 25, females under 25 and females over 25, so there had to be a little something in there which appealed to all of them and you better believe they had formulas for balancing all that. Here's a 2016 article called What Makes a Four-Quadrant Film? Ten Essential Elements which lays it all out: quote:Heroes and villains. That doesn’t mean heroes are flawless or villains can’t have a sad backstory, but concrete-thinking kids struggle with too much complexity in characters. You have to find the balance. quote:Kids in lead or major supporting roles. Including kids of course targets the "young" quadrant but also adds new levels of dramatic tension and/or comedy for adults. And let’s dump that “child protagonists can’t carry a film” idea for good! Harry Potter, E.T., Super 8, The Wizard of Oz and more say otherwise. quote:Hints of romance. Except for the rare, truly committed misanthrope, everyone responds to a well-done love story; it's universal. Even 9-10 year-olds (particularly girls) enjoy a bit of titillation here, and the adult quadrants love it, but again, striking the right balance re tone and content is important. Stop at innuendo and kissing. It's all extremely calculated and clinical, it's a real profit-driven production line mentality to making movies.
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Jun 27, 2023 00:13
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There is a weird streak of puritanism in some younger people online, but it only seems to be among the extremely online and who cares what they think
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Jun 27, 2023 04:31
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I'll cop to being someone who sometimes goes "wait, why are they hooking these two up? They had a good thing going as friends, and the writers are probably going to gently caress that up for reasons! What's wrong with showing, healthy, platonic relationships?!" I had some recent examples primed when I started writing this post and now I can't remember them  It could also be because I'm asexual, so I want someone to cater to MY romantic wants, or lack thereof
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Jun 27, 2023 08:43
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Aces High posted:I'll cop to being someone who sometimes goes "wait, why are they hooking these two up? They had a good thing going as friends, and the writers are probably going to gently caress that up for reasons! What's wrong with showing, healthy, platonic relationships?!"
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Jun 27, 2023 10:43
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I definitely got annoyed that every single piece of media needed to have some tacked on romance, as a teen. Maybe I've just grown numb to it.
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Jun 27, 2023 11:29
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Brita + Troy was a sign of the end for Community, that's for sure.
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Jun 27, 2023 12:25
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The Moon Monster posted:I definitely got annoyed that every single piece of media needed to have some tacked on romance, as a teen. Maybe I've just grown numb to it. That not really puritanism though, just pattern recognition
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Jun 27, 2023 12:27
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Well with week 2 of The Flash being the deathnell of the Synderverse, good riddance. I did not age these 2 weeks, at all well. Money well spent. So well spent. Billions.
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Jun 27, 2023 13:05
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Eh, Snyder's getting "gently caress yoooooou" money from Netflix so I don't think The Flash means anything outside of continued evidence that WB/DC has no idea how to make good movies anymore. Or maybe just good* CBMs Mileage DEFINITELY varies on what constitutes a good cape flick, even before the lightning in a bottle Avengers craze
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Jun 27, 2023 13:53
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When I was a teenager I thought all hetero romances in movies and TV were super boring but anything remotely queer was like "oh hm, this is suddenly interesting now."
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Jun 27, 2023 15:51
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The only DC thing I’ve enjoyed is Peacemaker, which has stylistic elements that I don’t think will age well at all, but which has good characters and performances. The hyper-stylized bickering all the characters do is eventually going to be received in the same way we receive Whedon’s stylized dialogue.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:57
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I AM GRANDO posted:The only DC thing I’ve enjoyed is Peacemaker, which has stylistic elements that I don’t think will age well at all, but which has good characters and performances. The hyper-stylized bickering all the characters do is eventually going to be received in the same way we receive Whedon’s stylized dialogue. already there for me, baybeeeeeeeeee
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Jun 27, 2023 15:58
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I think the only DC thing I enjoyed recently was the Harley Quinn show. Has aspects that are a bit dodgy, but it definitely is fun.
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Jun 27, 2023 16:12
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