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Prurient Squid posted:
For reference, here's what Ezekiel has to say about it: Ezekiel 16:49-50 posted:Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.
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Jun 26, 2023 14:19
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Prurient Squid posted:Why is John used as the basis for antisemitism? I don't recall who said it, maybe Karl Barth, it's been literal decades since the class I took where this came up, but I've always been partial to "it was the Church who killed Jesus, not the world" as an interpretation.
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Jun 26, 2023 15:39
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docbeard posted:I don't recall who said it, maybe Karl Barth, it's been literal decades since the class I took where this came up, but I've always been partial to "it was the Church who killed Jesus, not the world" as an interpretation. 
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Jun 26, 2023 15:47
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Doing a specific thing that he wants you to do, or anything that he wants you to do? I hope it is a meaningful experience for you in either case. Maybe all God wants me to do is heal.
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Jun 26, 2023 17:06
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Nessus posted:Can you unpack this? Seems a bit mean to the Church Scripturally, Israel and the church are continuous.
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Jun 26, 2023 17:34
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Christ was killed by the body of Christ? e: Suicide? Well it basically was in John. No one could have crucified the Johnian Jesus.
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Jun 26, 2023 17:39
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The general idea is that it was the religious establishment who were most opposed to the teachings of Jesus, who was one of them, not Those Bad Sinners Out There, and that we who are part of the modern religious establishment shouldn't feel too superior to Those Bad Sinners Out There.
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Jun 26, 2023 17:52
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I'm reading Seneca's Moral letters to Lucilius. I'm at the part where he describes the horrific slaughters of the Roman arena. For a moment I couldn't believe that such despicably evil acts could actually happen.
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Jun 26, 2023 20:02
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Counterpoint that with the chapter of confessions when Augustine and his boy go and watch some gladiatorial games.Augustine posted:Alypius did not indeed abandon the earthly career of whose prizes his parents had sung to him. He had arrived in Rome before I did to study law. There he had been seized by an incredible obsession for gladiatorial spectacles and to an unbelievable degree. He held such spectacles in aversion and detestation; but some of his friends and fellow-pupils on their way back from a dinner happened to meet him in the street and, despite his energetic refusal and resistance, used friendly violence to take him into the amphitheatre during the days of the cruel and murderous games. He said: ‘If you drag my body to that place and sit me down there, do not imagine you can turn my mind and my eyes to those spectacles. I shall be as one not there, and so I shall overcome both you and the games.’ They heard him, but none the less took him with them, wanting perhaps to discover whether he could actually carry it off. When they arrived and had found seats where they could, the entire place seethed with the most monstrous delight in the cruelty. He kept his eyes shut and forbade his mind to think about such fearful evils. Would that he had blocked his ears as well! A man fell in combat. A great roar from the entire crowd struck him with such vehemence that he was overcome by curiosity. Supposing himself strong enough to despise whatever he saw and to conquer it, he opened his eyes. He was struck in the soul by a wound graver than the gladiator in his body, whose fall had caused the roar. The shouting entered by his ears and forced open his eyes. Thereby it was the means of wounding and striking to the ground a mind still more bold than strong, and the weaker for the reason that he presumed on himself when he ought to have relied on you. As soon as he saw the blood, he at once drank in savagery and did not turn away. His eyes were riveted. He imbibed madness. Without any awareness of what was happening to him, he found delight in the murderous contest and was inebriated by bloodthirsty pleasure. He was not now the person who had come in, but just one of the crowd which he had joined, and a true member of the group which had brought him. What should I add? He looked, he yelled, he was on fire, he took the madness home with him so that it urged him to return not only with those by whom he had originally been drawn there, but even more than them, taking others with him. Nevertheless, from this you delivered him by your most strong and merciful hand, and you taught him to put his confidence not in himself but in you (Isa. 57: 13). But that was much later.”
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Jun 26, 2023 20:14
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Would any of you happen to know a bit about the Samaritans?
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Jun 26, 2023 22:46
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two fish posted:Would any of you happen to know a bit about the Samaritans? I haven’t seen this particular video, but this scholar is very knowledgeable and does his homework for all his videos so it should be what you’re looking for. https://youtu.be/tRrFrx8-wEg
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Jun 26, 2023 22:53
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two fish posted:Would any of you happen to know a bit about the Samaritans?
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Jun 27, 2023 01:10
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The Samaritans fascinate me, not only in how they managed to survive and hold onto their faith for so many thousands of years, but also how to an outsider's perspective, they look like a sort of parallel Judaism. I'm curious as to how modern Jewish scholars view Samaritanism, or even just what the experience of a Jewish person would be attending a Samaritan service. Would they find it similar enough, or would there be significant differences in liturgy?
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Jun 27, 2023 01:45
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Prurient Squid posted:Maybe all God wants me to do is heal. I believe any God worth our worship should want us to be able to feel healthy and whole. If there is something you want to invest time in healing in yourself and you're ready to do so, that sounds like an appropriately Godly task to set before you. Rarely an easy one though, so if I am understanding you correctly, allow me to offer you some human encouragement. 
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Jun 27, 2023 02:15
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two fish posted:The Samaritans fascinate me, not only in how they managed to survive and hold onto their faith for so many thousands of years, but also how to an outsider's perspective, they look like a sort of parallel Judaism. I'm curious as to how modern Jewish scholars view Samaritanism, or even just what the experience of a Jewish person would be attending a Samaritan service. Would they find it similar enough, or would there be significant differences in liturgy? the one samaritan i knew in shul was a holocaust survivor and a faithful attendant (i myself was closer to the reconstructionist sect but there was 1 reform synagogue in town so we went there lol) afaik he (z''l) prayed everything we did and there wasn't a lot of, like, conflict? i think? he was also fuckin cool as poo poo so i think even if there would have been conflict he'd have just made it a non-issue 
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Jun 27, 2023 03:21
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Okay, we need Religion Thread: 98 per cent propelled by the holy spirit like yesterday
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Jun 27, 2023 06:53
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Gaius Marius posted:Counterpoint that with the chapter of confessions when Augustine and his boy go and watch some gladiatorial games. This seems to be a theme. The criticism of the games is not just that they are cruel in themselves but the demoralising and depraving effect they have.
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Jun 27, 2023 09:11
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To put it more clearly, let it do with you and lead you as it will. Let it be the one that works; you must simply consent to it. Simply look at it, and just let it be. Do not interfere with it, as though you wished to help it on, lest you spoil it all. Try to be the wood and let it be the carpenter; the house, and let it be the husbandman dwelling in the house. During this time be blind, and cut away all desire of knowing; for this will hinder you more than it will help you. It is enough for you that you do not know what it is; so that in this affection you have no thought of anything in particular under God, and that your reaching out is simply directed to God. If this is the way of it, then trust steadfastly that it is God alone who moves your will and your desire: he alone, entirely of himself, without any intermediary, either on his part or on yours. The Cloud of Unknowing
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Jun 27, 2023 14:14
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sinnesloeschen posted:the one samaritan i knew in shul was a holocaust survivor and a faithful attendant (i myself was closer to the reconstructionist sect but there was 1 reform synagogue in town so we went there lol) That's really cool that you got to meet him, and I'm sorry that happened to him. He sounds like he would have been very interesting to talk to. What does "(z''l)" mean? Also, do you have any anecdotes relating to his faith? I didn't know that Samaritans could join Jewish congregations. Could the reverse also be true, like can a Jewish person join a Samaritan congregation? I'm also now wondering how Samaritans feel about their reference in the Bible.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:39
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I just noticed a similarity between Spinoza and Taoism 8 The Tao is called the Great Mother: empty yet inexhaustible, it gives birth to infinite worlds. It is always present within you. You can use it any way you want. Tao Te Ching Proposition 16, Ethics, Spinoza From the necessity of the divine nature infinite things must follow in infinite ways (i.e. all things that can fall under an infinite intellect). So the question I'm asking here is, is the single substance of Spinoza (God or nature) the same as the Tao?
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Jun 27, 2023 18:29
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two fish posted:That's really cool that you got to meet him, and I'm sorry that happened to him. He sounds like he would have been very interesting to talk to. What does "(z''l)" mean? so z''l is a shorthand for zikrono levrakha, "may [the departed's name] be a blessing forever" and it's just an honorary thing. there are lots of jewish customs around death and dying that i think christians should consider because death is a whole other thing as an MOT and a hell of a lot more human than my experience with corporate mortuaries and funeral homes so my samaritan brother was a... physicist? something really high-level-sciencey. we didn't talk much about him being a samaritan (mostly 'cos i thought it might've been poor form to ask) but he'd tell me all these dope experiments with like gunpowder that he did as a kid in austria, and told me the whole story of how he and his family (except for his mom) were rescued by danish underground railroad folx. josef, rest in motherfuckin power, brother. he also was a witness in my conversion ceremony, but i do think he'd be happy just knowin im thinkin about [thos] God again
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Jun 28, 2023 03:31
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In Orthodoxy, what we say is "May [their] memory be eternal," and we take prayer for the dead fairly seriously.
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Jun 28, 2023 03:57
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Prurient Squid posted:This seems to be a theme. The criticism of the games is not just that they are cruel in themselves but the demoralising and depraving effect they have. The same as why Severian shuts down the guild.
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Jun 28, 2023 04:38
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Oh wow, I remember when this whole thread was telling me to buy Book of the New Sun and I did. Maybe I should read it.
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Jun 28, 2023 09:19
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Mmmmm... lentil stew. So good you'd sell your birthright for a bowl of the stuff.
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Jun 28, 2023 10:13
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I've been watching Ram Dass videos. He reminds me of the clerk of the Quaker meeting I got to.
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Jun 28, 2023 12:35
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Prurient Squid posted:I just noticed a similarity between Spinoza and Taoism While I am not overfamiliar with either of the named schools of thought I would personally say Yes. An essential omnipresent essence that thousands of faiths know by thousands of names and understand as best they can through their individual lenses of the world has always been part of how I have interpreted what we call religious belief. Incidentally, I am halfway through this Tillich book and every single section is expanding the understanding of faith and Divinity that I have fought to put together for myself over my lifetime in the most incredible way. My boyfriend expressed surprise several months ago that I did not consider myself religious -- "You're the most religious person I know!" he, a former theology major, said -- and I am realizing that... yeah, he weren't wrong.
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Jun 28, 2023 13:52
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A lot of people associate "religious" intrinsically with "being a cruel bigot," which I think is unfortunate, because those guys are the hosed up ones.
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Jun 28, 2023 13:58
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Yeah, I was one of the people who saw "religious" as a dirty word for a very long time. 
LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jun 28, 2023 |
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Jun 28, 2023 14:24
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It's something I've had to address elsewhere on the forums when people got a bit too enthusiastic painting all religions with the Westboro Baptist/Wahabi/etc brush. It's tricky to address because a lot of the time it's coming from a position of very painful, very lovely lived experience. When someone's entire experience of religion has been the assholes in their small community explaining that they're sub-human because of their sexuality or their gender identity, etc. it's pretty easy to see why they just push right into saying there's something fundamentally wrong with faith, period. That doesn't make it right, but it's coming from a different place than, say, your typical edgy "flying spaghetti monster" evangelical freshman dorm atheist. There isn't really an answer other than to engage with them, be patient, and explain as best you can that lovely people weaponizing faith to hurt others doesn't make faith itself inherently bad, while accepting that you just may never get that across because of the depths of what they've personally endured.
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Jun 28, 2023 17:40
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Yeah, I was one of the people who saw "religious" as a dirty word for a very long time. At ages 18 to 22 I considered myself a Laveyian Satanist (a different kind of atheist) I'm not saying It's a super bad religion. (And/or philosophy), but it can make some people wild. I smoked weed, drank, smoked, and got into hard drugs for about 6 months. I and my friends in chat rooms would harass Christians, Which I feel bad about; since I've found Jesus and read any spiritual book I could get my hands on when I went to prison for basically; being a retarded grown kid. I still don't understand religion 100%, but I'm a dedicated Christian now and my head and sanity are clear. Spacegrass fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jun 29, 2023 |
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Jun 29, 2023 01:06
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There's a former Satanist who (last I checked) goes to one of the Orthodox churches in my area. Haven't seen him since before the pandemic, though. He's a cool guy. During coffee hour he would tell you all about the differences between Laveyan Satanism and Luciferian. His finger tattoos said TACO BELL OPEN LATE
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Jun 29, 2023 01:30
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Keromaru5 posted:During coffee hour he would tell you all about the differences between Laveyan Satanism and Luciferian. there's also The Satanic Temple, which is more of a secular organization that promotes separation of church and state through activism
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Jun 29, 2023 01:34
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I think the FSM people were trying to do what The Satanic Temple does, but they weren't very good at it. Possibly because they didn't ask Satan. This actually is an interesting question, now that I think of it. In your view of spirituality, does Satan or a comparable malicious force play any substantial role? I'm speaking fairly widely here; actual entity? Representation of the fallen impulse to pull away from the path? etc.
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Jun 29, 2023 01:47
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Nessus posted:I think the FSM people were trying to do what The Satanic Temple does, but they weren't very good at it. Possibly because they didn't ask Satan. Satan/The Devil/whatever is usually just an excuse to dodge responsibility for our sins. The being tempting me to pull away from the path is me. The Devil doesn't make me do it, I choose to of my own volition. I'm the evil one who is determined to wander and needs the grace of God to stay on the path.
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Jun 29, 2023 01:55
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Keromaru5 posted:His finger tattoos said lmao this rules
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Jun 29, 2023 01:57
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satan is cool and my friend
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Jun 29, 2023 01:59
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Keromaru5 posted:There's a former Satanist who (last I checked) goes to one of the Orthodox churches in my area. Haven't seen him since before the pandemic, though. He's a cool guy. During coffee hour he would tell you all about the differences between Laveyan Satanism and Luciferian. What are some of the differences, out of curiosity? If you remember.
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Jun 29, 2023 02:04
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Nessus posted:I think the FSM people were trying to do what The Satanic Temple does, but they weren't very good at it. Possibly because they didn't ask Satan. i think they were just more specific. The Satanic Temple is widespread and tries to do activism everywhere they see the line between church and state becoming blurred. FSM was very specifically a response to "intelligent design", which was a specific attempt to push creationism into the US school system using pseudoscientific language.
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Jun 29, 2023 02:07
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Night10194 posted:What are some of the differences, out of curiosity? If you remember. hi I'm not him but (LaVeyan*) Satanism is spicy atheism (also that's me, hi!) Luciferianism is used by people who care about such things to distinguish the theistic worship of a literal Satan/Lucifer/whoever * some LaVeyan Satanists get very mad about the 'LaVeyan' prefix since yeah it's based on books a man named LaVey wrote but because the Church of Satan was the first to officially register in the USA or some dumb reason we should be understood to be Just Satanists Bc We Were Here First and also it can imply we worship the man who wrote the books which, nah, he was just a dude, and in fact wrong about a lot of poo poo, because it was the fuckin 1960s. imo this is all a bit silly The Satanic Temple has its roots in LaVeyan Satanism, not Luciferianism, and the key disagreement is against the Church's lack of political activism Killingyouguy! fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jun 29, 2023 |
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Jun 29, 2023 02:09
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