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Blue Raider posted:Gunn’s DC will just be the same kinda thing he’s been making for years. No more no less. Probably the same exact movie. Daddy issues, pop culture music, etc. so its perfect for the people who want superman as their dad.
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Jun 28, 2023 18:40
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New Superman casting seems kind of boring. I don’t know anything about the guy, but if you are moving away from Cavil why not actually change it up like Snyder did with aquaman.
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Jun 28, 2023 18:43
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checkplease posted:New Superman casting seems kind of boring. I don’t know anything about the guy, but if you are moving away from Cavil why not actually change it up like Snyder did with aquaman. The real answer seems to be that WB/DC insiders were already eyeing him for the role since Josstice League.
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Jun 28, 2023 18:51
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Lois casting is super-great however. Once that initial list appeared it was never going to be anyone else but Rachel. She's going to be the actual star of the movie. To be clear, Amy is still the GOAT in all things, in case she's reading this. Man we are starved for Rebel Moon content. Does anyone know anything about this putative third movie?
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Jun 28, 2023 18:55
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I'm just sitting around waiting for Rebel Moon, basically. Comic book movies (and mainstream movies in general) are in a baaaaaad place.
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Jun 28, 2023 19:04
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Alexander Hamilton posted:We'll never see it but I was slightly offended by the insinuation that Clark could be corrupted, to be honest. It has happened before   I think it makes sense. Lois is Clark's world, and losing her meant he failed at saving the world. He represented hope, and hope had failed. That would leave him vulnerable to manipulation, and Darkseid is the master when it comes to manipulation.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:11
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It's worth noting in case people aren't up on the lore but the Anti-Life Equation is effectively super high level mind control (well not directly but what it does is destroy people's will and makes them an empty vessel for Darkseid to control). So it's not simply a matter of "oh Clark got sad and Darkseid convinced him to destroy humanity" like Injustice or whatever, it's literally "Clark is already so amazing and incorruptible that he one of a handful of people on Earth able to resist this god magic at all, but losing Lois weakens him just enough that he becomes susceptible".
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Jun 28, 2023 20:29
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm just sitting around waiting for Rebel Moon, basically. Comic book movies (and mainstream movies in general) are in a baaaaaad place.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:30
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I know it's still got a bit more time on a few screens but looking at box office numbers and GOTG3 has made almost as much as BvS on the same budget and yet.....lol Its not gunna hit 1bil despite good reviews and fan reception. MCU should clearly pivot in a total panic.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:39
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I just realized that the proposed JL plan would have likely given us the best and closest thing to Flash's death in the original Crisis On Infinite Earths. Flashbis supposed to meet his fate on the cosmic treadmill trying to deliver the warning, when his time vortex destroys him. But it ciuld have easily been made to more resemble the comics. Barry running to breach the time barrier on the cosmic treadmill, making the right choice based on what Bruce remembers. He delivers the warning but the treadmill begins to fail and he works quickly to contain the blast. He's so fast it looks like he's created duplicates of himself that catch up to him and he tries to contain the energies of a slowly growing blast. Energy surges into him, each double crashing into him fracturing him through time untill he compresses the reaction and reaches out to grab it and release it on the opposite ends of the earth. Running through memories as he approaches the speed force, becoming weaker, a flash of light illuminates his bones for a split second. Maybe he turns into a photon that gleams in Iris' eyes or somewhit poetic. Iono. Guy A. Person posted:It's worth noting in case people aren't up on the lore but the Anti-Life Equation is effectively super high level mind control... FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 28, 2023 |
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Jun 28, 2023 20:41
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Guy A. Person posted:…the Anti-Life Equation is effectively super high level mind control… I was never deep into DC lore, so Anti-Life always sounded like peak goofy comics bullshit. But it’s…a literal mathematical equation, that hypnotizes you into obedience? My semi-formed assumption was that it’s Lovecraft poo poo, like reading the Necronomicon. It’s God knowledge that drives a human reader insane by exposing them to some nihilistic and unchangeable horror behind reality, thus shattering whatever naive and irrelevant ideals or identities they used to hold.
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Jun 28, 2023 20:50
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Xealot posted:I was never deep into DC lore, so Anti-Life always sounded like peak goofy comics bullshit. But it’s…a literal mathematical equation, that hypnotizes you into obedience? loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding x guilt x shame x failure x judgment, n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self= DARKSEID It's essentially a magic phrase that removes agency from thoae exposed to it. Not so much obedience as it is the absence of free will in its entirety. Mister Miracle is supposed to be immune to it, because dude literally escaped from hell. For a while I think the secret tonit was behind the Source Wall, which is why all those tyrants are imprisoned on it. Someone once posited that Snyder's Darkseid was wrong and there is no anti-life, just faith and hope. Which would have been a fun story. Maybe the meta is authorial ontent or something.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:04
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it's sort of an inverted Lovecraft. even momentarily setting aside the racist aspect of his whole deal, Lovecraft was terrified of chaos and meaninglessness, he thought civilization and man having any control over his environment was a tiny anomalous blip in history that could collapse at any time Anti-Life is more like a mathematical proof that resistance is futile and you should simply give yourself over to tyranny. basically Lovecraft if the ultimate face of horror were "fascism" instead of "having Italian neighbors"
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Jun 28, 2023 21:06
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Xealot posted:I was never deep into DC lore, so Anti-Life always sounded like peak goofy comics bullshit. But it’s…a literal mathematical equation, that hypnotizes you into obedience? Jack Kirby had it more of a concept rather than an actual mathematical equation. It gave the person who learned it absolute control over the will of another. Future writers made it mathematical, and probably shouldn't have defined it. That was Grant Morrison's choice, and a mistake IMHO.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:10
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:basically Lovecraft if the ultimate face of horror were "fascism" instead of "having Italian neighbors" But you repeat yourself!!! Yes I know it doesn't really make sense, it had the shape of a joke when it occurred to me.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:15
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The actual equation being laid out is pretty silly, but I think Morrison was trying to portray there being some underlying truth to Anti-Life. Like, Darkseid is a literal embodiment of Evil so he twists and exaggerates it, but it's fundamentally about how we can't objectively prove any meaning to our own lives. It's like, we all have these rational fears and stuff and then humans actually meet a cosmic horror that confirms "yep all your worst fears are true so get in line" and it breaks our brain.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:20
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The Anti-Life equation being written out like that is because it's a comic book.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:22
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Yeah absolutely. when I say silly in regards to something Grant Morrison did, I am not saying I don't like it.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:23
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Originally, the Forever People (God, I love Jack Kirby names and concepts!) explained the Anti-Life title as being that if someone has complete control over you, then you aren't really alive. You're just an automaton, an appendage acting out someone else's desires. If life is about freedom and choice, then this power is the antithesis of it.
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Jun 28, 2023 21:40
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FilthyImp posted:It is defined as: Mister Miracle is notably immune to it because he possessed the life equation. Yes yes, comic books, I know. Bogus Adventure posted:Originally, the Forever People (God, I love Jack Kirby names and concepts!) explained the Anti-Life title as being that if someone has complete control over you, then you aren't really alive. You're just an automaton, an appendage acting out someone else's desires. If life is about freedom and choice, then this power is the antithesis of it. Right. To be alive is to have choice, freedom, the will to choose and to act. The anti-life strips all this away, removing everything that makes us not only human, but living at all. It's no secret that Darkseid was created as the platonic ideal of a fascist, the ur-dictator, and the anti-life neatly ties in to that, because part of what makes fascism so evil and horrendous is the way it demands conformity and intolerance of free will.
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Jun 28, 2023 22:24
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The first thing to understand is that Jack Kirby hated nazis very much. The character of Darkseid embodies and revels in all evils, to a degree that even his most ardent followers (most of whom were nazi-like in one way or another) struggle to comprehend because it's mystical. But his most favorite kind of evil is for others to be subject to his will - in thought as well as deed. It pleases him to see people being evil, because he is evil, and that's his will manifesting in them; it pleases him to see people despairing, because he is despair; and so forth. So he seeks any means to expand his domination. His ultimate victory is identical to his discovery of "the Anti-Life Equation," which is a description of a means to obliterate free will. Subsequent authors have interpreted it as a mathematical proof of the futility of hope, or some such thing. In order to facilitate comic book adventures, it's described as a fact which can be discovered or deduced by observation, with clues that may be strewn across the universe. But that's interpreting it as a plot device, rather than as a symbol. Consider instead the end result: Anti-Life is the ultimate version of the process which turns free people into the enthusiastically obedient slaves of hateful tyrants, the perfected horror at the core of the waking nightmare of witnessing populations embrace dictators. It's fascism amplified to an absolute, divine degree.
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Jun 28, 2023 22:34
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McCloud posted:Right. To be alive is to have choice, freedom, the will to choose and to act. The anti-life strips all this away, removing everything that makes us not only human, but living at all. It's no secret that Darkseid was created as the platonic ideal of a fascist, the ur-dictator, and the anti-life neatly ties in to that, because part of what makes fascism so evil and horrendous is the way it demands conformity and intolerance of free will. Which makes it the perfect subject of a superhero saga dedicated to looking into the minds and motives of the humans behind the heroics. Bongo Bill posted:The first thing to understand is that Jack Kirby hated nazis very much. The character of Darkseid embodies and revels in all evils, to a degree that even his most ardent followers (most of whom were nazi-like in one way or another) struggle to comprehend because it's mystical. But his most favorite kind of evil is for others to be subject to his will - in thought as well as deed. It pleases him to see people being evil, because he is evil, and that's his will manifesting in them; it pleases him to see people despairing, because he is despair; and so forth. And reminding people that Nazis and fascism are bad are also incredibly timely given the contemporary confusion and JAQing over why Nazism was really loving bad. PS-Shoutout to the vilest of the New Gods - Virmin Vundabar  ]Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jun 28, 2023 |
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Jun 28, 2023 22:35
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For real. There's an interview recently where Harrison Ford was asked about his opinions on punching Nazis which of course Ford whole-heartedly supports. The comments where it was posted were filled with "somebody should educate Ford on the modern definition of Nazi so that he knows he's being manipulated here".
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Jun 29, 2023 00:54
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Bogus Adventure posted:Which makes it the perfect subject of a superhero saga dedicated to looking into the minds and motives of the humans behind the heroics. losing it at "YOU BLEW IT; HYDRIK" Bongo Bill posted:The first thing to understand is that Jack Kirby hated nazis very much. The character of Darkseid embodies and revels in all evils, to a degree that even his most ardent followers (most of whom were nazi-like in one way or another) struggle to comprehend because it's mystical. But his most favorite kind of evil is for others to be subject to his will - in thought as well as deed. It pleases him to see people being evil, because he is evil, and that's his will manifesting in them; it pleases him to see people despairing, because he is despair; and so forth. Excellent post
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Jun 29, 2023 01:00
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Xealot posted:For all the hand-wringing about not saving people or whatever, it’s obviously this kind of poo poo. Nolan Batman movies literally end with "Batman sucks and is just a dumb manchild" which is why people whined about that in the same way as MoS before it. Don't believe me? Look up Harry Knowles review at the time and see how he did a whole "not my Batman" thing that is exactly the same MoS review we got later.
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Jun 29, 2023 01:11
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Darko posted:Nolan Batman movies literally end with "Batman sucks and is just a dumb manchild" which is why people whined about that in the same way as MoS before it. Hell, Batman Begins literally ends with Gordon hinting that the Batman might be making things worse, not better, because of escalation. And The Dark Knight makes that explicit, because the mob has been so cowed by the Batman that they let the clown off his leash while being entirely unprepared for the consequences of doing so.
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Jun 29, 2023 01:20
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Yeah, Nolan I guess was just not obvious enough with it until DKR, I guess. Only Begins kind of liked Batman, and that was only a lesser of two evils thing to stop an apocalypse. He was trained by the guy that started it!
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Jun 29, 2023 01:49
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My issue with DKR comes in when I compare it to Grant Morrison's take on Batman. Both are willing to look at the silliness and compare their Batmen to Adam West etc. but I think Nolan leans on that as an excuse for really lazy corny stuff like Batman getting out of the Lazarus Pit. It's so much dramatic weight and time and tension in the movie that's resolved by the lamest "sometimes you need to make a leap of faith" imagery, and it feels like at best it was Bad On Purpose. Whereas comics Batman was dealing with the exact same interrogation of his history but manages to actually come out of that with love for the character. Ending on "eh some other guy could do it better maybe" is so uninspiring that the whole trilogy comes off as a mean joke to me.
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Jun 29, 2023 06:23
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I wonder if Nolan realized in the final film of his trilogy that Batman works best as an evolving idea. Bruce created it, but what makes Batman endure is that the idea is bigger than one man. Bruce Wayne inspired Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Damian Wayne, etc. Each of them brought something different to Batman's crusade, and each of them improve on it somehow. In the comics, Bruce recognizes that his proteges bring something better to the table than he does (like Dick being a better leader, or Tim being more grounded). At the end of TDKR, Bruce comes to a realization that he is not the right person to be Batman. His body is failing, and he realizes that he is too easily manipulated by villains (throughout the trilogy he latches onto ideas given to him, like Harvey Dent and the Joker). His tunnel-vision encourages him to create powerful devices that can be twisted into weapons of mass surveillance or destruction. He no longer believes in the Batman, so he leaves it to someone who does-John Blake.
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Jun 29, 2023 07:16
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Anti-Life really shouldn't be read literally, it's not exactly 'maths' unless in the, funnily enough, Lovecraftian idea of advanced mathematics being a part of magic. Essentially a mind-control spell Martman posted:My issue with DKR comes in when I compare it to Grant Morrison's take on Batman. Both are willing to look at the silliness and compare their Batmen to Adam West etc. but I think Nolan leans on that as an excuse for really lazy corny stuff like Batman getting out of the Lazarus Pit. It's so much dramatic weight and time and tension in the movie that's resolved by the lamest "sometimes you need to make a leap of faith" imagery, and it feels like at best it was Bad On Purpose. Making fun of Batman is great because Batman is ridiculous. The movies understand this. And if you're going to get rid of all the explicitly supernatural stuff about the setting, replacing them with hilariously on the nose allegory is a fun way to do it, as well as making the non-magical stuff actually interesting. I feel The Lego Batman Movie definitely took influence from the Nolan movies in both parodying and examining Batman as a character and the world he lives in. As has come up before, it's drat near impossible to write Batman without getting into his psychology, and that's one of the most interesting things about him. Bruce Wayne is a messed up person, a traumatised manchild, and it makes complete sense that once he starts to come to terms with this, he knows he can't be Batman anymore.
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Jun 29, 2023 08:12
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Harley Quinn leans into this greatly (and uses Nolan Bane voice, which should always be used from here on out). It's only the slightest exaggeration from the Nolan movies where Bruce is slightly more of a manchild and slightly latches on even harder to any woman that he thinks can be his new mom.
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Jun 29, 2023 14:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Anti-Life really shouldn't be read literally, it's not exactly 'maths' unless in the, funnily enough, Lovecraftian idea of advanced mathematics being a part of magic. The Anti-Life Equation is 100% literal. People just put too much emphasis on the “equation” part. Like, e=mc2 is just five characters, chosen somewhat arbitrarily. Like, you could substitute the “e” with a “j” or something, but the point is a realization about the functioning of the universe. “We are somebodies who move freely about and think what we choose. Puppets are not like that. They have nothing in their heads. They are unreal. When they are in motion, we know they are moved by an outside force. When they speak, their voices come from elsewhere. Their orders come from somewhere behind and beyond them. And were they ever to become aware of that fact, they would collapse at the horror of it all, as would we.” -Thomas Ligotti, “Conspiracy Against The Human Race” The basic concept of TALE is that it expresses so much about the universe, so concisely, that the person who reads and understands it is granted a sort of limited omniscience. Rather than this being a source of power, though, the result is a total disillusionment. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jun 29, 2023 |
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Jun 29, 2023 15:38
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Lego Batman also basically just directly uses Nolan Bane. Ghost Leviathan posted:I feel The Lego Batman Movie definitely took influence from the Nolan movies in both parodying and examining Batman as a character and the world he lives in. As has come up before, it's drat near impossible to write Batman without getting into his psychology, and that's one of the most interesting things about him. Bruce Wayne is a messed up person, a traumatised manchild, and it makes complete sense that once he starts to come to terms with this, he knows he can't be Batman anymore. I feel like Lego Batman has a characterization and arc that is extremely close to the BvS Bruce/Batman, just because there's more jokes and exaggeration for kids the same sort of people who hated Battfleck for being a fascist, not a real Batman, etc., went googly-eyed over how great Lego Batman's character was.
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Jun 29, 2023 15:57
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He gets to have fun being Batman in Lego Batman. That over the top celebration sequence at the beginning sort of sets the tone. You know, I can't remember any criticism of Wonder Woman in BvS. Nobody says she's dour, no fun, etc. It's because she's clearly having a great time. There's so much wrapped up in the wish fulfillment aspect of these movies, and if they aren't having fun then it's not something you'd wish for.
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Jun 29, 2023 16:21
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He gets to have fun being Batman in Lego Batman. That over the top celebration sequence at the beginning sort of sets the tone. That's true, but my takeaway (caveat: probably haven't seen it in five years so going all off old memory) was that we were supposed to take it as a hollow celebration that's not actually fun for him, just going through the motions, just the same way that Battfleck celebrated by boozing up and loving random women. Same thing, just one is kid-appropriate.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:27
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I basically have never read any DC stuff. Is DC Universe Infinite a good way to read all of this cosmic stuff? Or is there a better service for a digital catalog? I remember Marvel's app was supposed to be good but DC was late to getting their's up and running?
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Jun 29, 2023 17:37
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Darko posted:Harley Quinn leans into this greatly (and uses Nolan Bane voice, which should always be used from here on out). It's only the slightest exaggeration from the Nolan movies where Bruce is slightly more of a manchild and slightly latches on even harder to any woman that he thinks can be his new mom. Telltale's Batman can have the first season end with Bruce telling Selina he loves her before she leaves town To which she immediately gets weirded and grossed out because they've known each other for like three days, clues in that Bruce has some big boy problems, then drives off and leaves a sad Batman in the dust lmao
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Jun 29, 2023 17:38
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DC Infinite isn’t comprehensive but it’s supposed to have basically all the essentials. There’s probably a free trial to see if it’s for you.
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Jun 29, 2023 17:39
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Chairman Capone posted:That's true, but my takeaway (caveat: probably haven't seen it in five years so going all off old memory) was that we were supposed to take it as a hollow celebration that's not actually fun for him, just going through the motions, just the same way that Battfleck celebrated by boozing up and loving random women. Same thing, just one is kid-appropriate. No that's absolutely right, and also Gordon's retirement is clearly making him deeply uncomfortable as he outright says he hates change. More the thing is he genuinely enjoys being Batman and kicking villain rear end, but the moment things slow down enough to have more than five seconds to himself he quickly shows himself to be a deeply lonely and maladjusted person, see also the extended sequence alone in an empty Wayne Manor. Key thing is of course that's topped off with the bit where he's talking to his dead parents through the photo, and being completely, heartbreakingly sincere, expressing his doubts and his sadness in a way he can't bring himself to with any living being because of the sheer terror that brings him. He's pathetic, sad and lonely, and that shows why, because he's a deeply hurt person.
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Jun 29, 2023 18:07
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RBA Starblade posted:Telltale's Batman can have the first season end with Bruce telling Selina he loves her before she leaves town I'm sorry I missed this now.
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Jun 29, 2023 22:43
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