FFXIV New Players Thread: The Declassified Tankxiety Survival Guide

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RME: Feb 20, 2012

I too would die if someone came up to me and spoke French

# ? Jun 29, 2023 17:25

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# ? May 26, 2024 01:57

Zanael: Jan 30, 2007; Finn 3:16 says I just licorice
whipped your peppermint ass

RME posted:

I too would die if someone came up to me and spoke French

Bonjour, comment �a va ?
dashes out

# ? Jun 29, 2023 23:53

Mesadoram: Nov 4, 2009; Serious Business

RME posted:

I too would die if someone came up to me and spoke French

# ? Jun 30, 2023 00:12

Vitamean: May 31, 2012

Steam Sale's on - if you have the Steam version of Final Fantasy XIV, you can pick up Endwalker for 50% off. The base game is still full priced (at $20 USD), so if you're on a trial account you can scoop the whole set for a discount.

No sale for the expansion if you're on the stand-alone client or PS4/5, but keep an eye out?

As a reminder, if you're thinking about picking up the game, it's suggested you start with the stand-alone client, since the Steam version can only purchase expansions sold in Steam, and you can usually find deals for the stand-alone client's expansions more often. Up to you though!

# ? Jun 30, 2023 06:49

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

RME posted:

I too would die if someone came up to me and spoke French

What about Italian? I do love sending people on their bone journeys.

# ? Jul 1, 2023 09:04

Heran Bago: Aug 18, 2006

Tank looks like a lot of risk, responsibility, and careful work if you've never played it.

All you do is press your buttons near baddies, receive heals, and you're invincible most of the time. Hard to see that until you drive a couple dungeons yourself, then it's pretty obvious.

Heran Bago fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jul 2, 2023

# ? Jul 1, 2023 21:59

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

Tanking is fun and I like playing chicken w/ mobs by seeing how close I can get before hitting Sprint while still getting the full 20 seconds

oh yeah, use Sprint so you get hit less often on the way to wherever you're going to post up. It's not just to make the dungeon go faster, it's mitigation since you're faster than the mobs while sprinting and they can't all reach you to hit you.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 07:26

Schwartzcough: Aug 12, 2009; Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

So I've seen seemingly contradictory advice for tanks:

1. Tanks should hit sprint and run past packs to pick them up; and
2. Tanks should hit each pack with at least two AoEs before moving on to make sure they don't lose aggro to a DPS.

So which is correct?

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:12

ConanThe3rd: Mar 27, 2009

I've always run, tag with AOE, circle back if it doesn't take and that usually works.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:19

GilliamYaeger: Jan 10, 2012; Call Gespenst!

Schwartzcough posted:

So I've seen seemingly contradictory advice for tanks:

1. Tanks should hit sprint and run past packs to pick them up; and
2. Tanks should hit each pack with at least two AoEs before moving on to make sure they don't lose aggro to a DPS.

So which is correct?

Both are correct. Use a GCD and an oGCD AoE while you're running through them, ie Flood of Darkness, Circle of Scorn, Bow Shock etc etc.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:21

Theris: Oct 9, 2007

Edit^ Yeah if the "hit them twice" includes an oGCD then sure.

Hit them once, which you can usually do without stopping. The DPS picking up aggro from one or two is not a problem, you just pick it back up when you stop running and they bring it over to you. If they don't bring it over to you that's their problem.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:24

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

If you're tanking for the Trust/Duty Support you must hit every mob before running on to the next pack, if you miss aggro on one the NPCs will stand there to fight it. Players will follow you and, if they aren't idiots, bring any enemies chasing them to your AoE when you stop.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:30

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

Theris posted:

Hit them once, which you can usually do without stopping. The DPS picking up aggro from one or two is not a problem, you just pick it back up when you stop running and they bring it over to you. If they don't bring it over to you that's their problem.

Yeah this is what I do. If they peel away a mob and insist on facetanking it outside 'hawk range, well ... I've never seen that happen, come to think about it. Usually they'll just keep running towards wherever you stop and give you the mob.

I'm considering what GilliamYaeger said and I might try that w/ the regular & ogcd AOE to make sure it doesn't happen, but it's not really a big deal when it does. A DPS can take a hit or two from a mob without perishing.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:30

Mainwaring: Jun 22, 2007; Disco is not dead! Disco is LIFE!

You can also fling your ranged attack at enemies as you're running towards them, particularly if one is slightly separate from the group and therefore likely to be missed by your first aoe. I also like to toss ranged attacks behind me as I'm running on towards the next group.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:36

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

If you miss a single enemy you can also use Provoke on it. It's an ogcd with a longer range than the ranged attack.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 17:40

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Theris posted:

Edit^ Yeah if the "hit them twice" includes an oGCD then sure.

Hit them once, which you can usually do without stopping. The DPS picking up aggro from one or two is not a problem, you just pick it back up when you stop running and they bring it over to you. If they don't bring it over to you that's their problem.

I spend the 2 seconds to use a second GCD because the DPS I usually run with are front-loaded and it'll hold even with a dancer or summoner opening up.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 18:22

Arzaac: Jan 2, 2020

I don't usually run into DPS taking aggro even if I only hit with one AoE. I mean, it can definitely happen but also I'm a Warrior and don't get a oGCD AoE until 86 so I just kinda risk it.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 18:24

Maximum Tomfoolery: Apr 12, 2010

I regularly steal aggro in 90 dungeons because I can't help myself from unloading my entire opener while we're running. It doesn't actually matter though, I never lose more than a third of my hp before the tank can wrangle them up again.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 18:31

Mainwaring: Jun 22, 2007; Disco is not dead! Disco is LIFE!

If you need to drop two gcds you can drop two gcds as well, it's usually fine. Also while it's not great practice on boss pulls, using a gap closer when pulling packs isn't a terrible idea when getting initial agro.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 18:33

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Oh yeah it's a terrible idea on bosses, you want those DPS and heals to be right on your heels when you engage a boss so you don't waste mitigation.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 18:56

GilliamYaeger: Jan 10, 2012; Call Gespenst!

Kwyndig posted:

Oh yeah it's a terrible idea on bosses, you want those DPS and heals to be right on your heels when you engage a boss so you don't waste mitigation.

Yeah. With a boss pull, you want to emphasize the pull part, hitting it with a ranged attack, moving back slightly then running forward. If done right, this should place the boss exactly at the center of the arena.

But when you're doing pack pulls, you want to move as fast as possible since speed is mitigation. Sprint prevents damage, and a gapcloser will increase the distance between you and the pack you've pulled giving you a few extra seconds to hit the second pack without worrying about taking the full damage of the pull.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 19:00

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

Remember also that sprint has double the duration if you activate if before combat begins (which happens when enemies appear in the enemy list, not when the first attack is made)

# ? Jul 2, 2023 19:27

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

One or two GCDs is fine, whatever you personally feel comfortable with (as long as it's more than zero, because whether they go ham or not people WILL start attacking on the first pack if only to get them off the healer you just declared honorary tank). The trick once you start doing double-pulls is not to hang around for so long that the party assumes you're doing a single pull and sets up shop.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 19:35

Bloody Emissary: Mar 31, 2014; Powawa~n

FuturePastNow posted:

If you miss a single enemy you can also use Provoke on it. It's an ogcd with a longer range than the ranged attack.

I tend to pull initial packs with Provoke first; using the ranged attack sets the GCD rolling so if I use it to pull I have to wait a little longer before I can hit the AoE to grab full aggro.

My pack pull flow:
1.) Hit Sprint when just outside of aggro range
2.) Hit Provoke to get the mobs to converge on me
3.) Run up to meet them
4.) Hit everything with an AoE once
5.) Run onward, keeping an eye on the aggro list for stragglers to smack with a ranged attack
6.) Hit ranged attack when in range of the next pack
7.) If a 3+ pack pull is possible, repeat steps 4-6 until I reach the last pack I feel I can manage
8.) Run to the other side of the final pack
9.) If AoE is ready, use it; otherwise, start in on mits until it is
10.) Normal combat--i.e. weave new mits in-between attacks when old ones expire, start from step 1 when everything's dead

# ? Jul 2, 2023 20:33

Hyper Inferno: Jun 11, 2015

If you're a DPS and accidentally (or purposefully) grab aggro while running, don't forget that physical DPS have Arm's Length too so you can even contribute to mitigation after the tank takes it back.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 20:35

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Yeah it's not like you're going to need the anti knockback function in most boss fights and certainly not in trash pulls.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 21:45

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

All bosses past level 35 or 40 are immune to Arm's Length's slow effect too, so it's really only a mitigation for trash.

Interject is another cool button you don't get to press very often but it's very good to know what it can be used on (casts with the red flashing border) and use it when you see those.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 22:06

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Fortunately in post 50 content they give you plenty of time to push that button, I think they've taken out all the blink and you'll miss it ones in the rework.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 22:31

God Hole: Mar 2, 2016

I feel like using both a GCD and an oGCD just to maintain aggro on a couple enemies wastes valuable MP/DoTs that would better be served using on the entire pack when they're all grouped up

# ? Jul 3, 2023 00:01

Trash Ops: Jun 19, 2012; im having fun, isnt everyone else?

God Hole posted:

I feel like using both a GCD and an oGCD just to maintain aggro on a couple enemies wastes valuable MP/DoTs that would better be served using on the entire pack when they're all grouped up

Not even in a weird micro optimization way lol

# ? Jul 3, 2023 00:26

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

God Hole posted:

I feel like using both a GCD and an oGCD just to maintain aggro on a couple enemies wastes valuable MP/DoTs that would better be served using on the entire pack when they're all grouped up

Tanks don't have mp or dots.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 00:33

Bloody Emissary: Mar 31, 2014; Powawa~n

Bruceski posted:

Tanks don't have mp or dots.

They're referring to this post:

GilliamYaeger posted:

Both are correct. Use a GCD and an oGCD AoE while you're running through them, ie Flood of Darkness, Circle of Scorn, Bow Shock etc etc.

Flood of Darkness costs MP; Circle of Scorn and Bow Shock both apply DoT.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 00:35

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

I usually just swing the first part of my aoe combo as I run past and then throw ranged attacks behind me until I get to the next group. Try not to overthink it.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 01:18

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

FuturePastNow posted:

I usually just swing the first part of my aoe combo as I run past and then throw ranged attacks behind me until I get to the next group. Try not to overthink it.

This is the big thing, yeah. You'll find a rhythm that works for you and lets you pull smoothly, so don't stress it too much as a newbie. As long as you're grabbing 2+ packs and rotating your mitigations, the chances of anyone expressing a problem with how you're tanking is very low. There are so many awful tanks in Duty Finder that I can promise almost everyone has seen someone worse at it than you.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 01:25

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

If one or two baddies in a pack are attacking someone else in the party, they'll be fine until that part of the pull stops and you can scoop them up. No worries.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 01:34

Dareon: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

FuturePastNow posted:

Interject is another cool button you don't get to press very often but it's very good to know what it can be used on (casts with the red flashing border) and use it when you see those.

This is a useful mechanic to be aware of, as it's never tutorialized anywhere. The only class quest I've seen it on is Archer 30 where the boss does a long charge paralyze which lets you hit Head Graze.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 02:03

Duodecimal: Dec 28, 2012; Still stupid

A tank role quest for endwalker needs it too. I'd forgotten it had existed until then, when I failed it my first try.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 02:14

Xerophyte: Mar 17, 2008; This space intentionally left blank

If you're ~optimizing~ then being able to establish aggro without stopping so you can gather the final pull earlier is worth more than a more efficient tank ogcd on both packs. One ogcd from 1/4th of the party might cut half a second of a pull, taking a gcd extra to gather the mobs adds, well, a gcd to the pull. So, using the ogcd to avoid stopping is a good trade, if stopping was the alternative.

This sort of stupid microoptimization really doesn't matter though.

Other small optimizations you can do that don't much matter include:

Try to keep high HP mobs in the middle of the scrum, so that "100 potency to primary target, half that in an area"-type abilities can be used effectively. In general try to keep mobs as tightly packed as the game's pathing permits to allow for weirdly shaped aoes, don't settle for standing in the middle of a sparse circle of baddies thinking "well I can hit 'em all".
If there are no ground target effects in the party (e.g. Ninja's Doton, Summoner's Slipstream, Black Mage's Leylines, etc) then you can move the fight no problem. Ideally you drag the last pack in your pull back towards the party and incoming old mobs so everything is gathered sooner, then end the fight as far forward in the dungeon as you can. In practice I usually just start running forward when a pack is down to 1-2 mobs.
If everyone is alive and healthy then don't be afraid of standing in mechanics for melee uptime. Single trash ground markers do very little damage to tanks (or to dps, usually), and getting a vulnerability debuff in exchange for not hiding behind a rock for 5 seconds is a good trade. Sometimes a boss mechanic is extra nasty and this will backfire in some fun way, but the only way to know when is to test.
Similarly, when a boss dies all its associated debuffs are cleared. When the boss is at <2% then you should normally just run for the exit no matter what may be going on, or what might hit you on the way.
There are chests in dungeons with loot and materia. They're good value for the no effort involved and definitely worth opening ... by someone else, who isn't setting the pace for the dungeon. Relatedly: if healer or ranged dps, please open the damned chests, it doesn't even cost you a cast nowadays.
Food is cool and fun and gives you numbers. You can use high level food at low levels for significantly more numbers than on-level food. Some not-quite-current high level food like Smoked Chicken or Espresso con Panna can sometimes be bought for pennies on the MB, and it's great for lower level dungeons.

I can't stress enough how little any of this matters in normal play, but if you're feeling otherwise solid and not prone to dying then these are stupid tricks you can decide to think about as you idly mash Overpower.

# ? Jul 3, 2023 02:18