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kalel posted:I mean it's pretty obvious that snyder would play the whole white saviour thing completely uncritically straight
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Jul 1, 2023 05:15
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Halloween Jack posted:That's precisely what he would do. He would do that and thereby challenge the viewer to make their own judgment. That's why he's good. He sucks, OP
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Jul 1, 2023 06:08
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The Zack Snyder in your head sure sounds horrible.Baron von Eevl posted:I kinda wonder if that was an intentional allusion to that, like the Baron levitating up from the table lookin like the God Emperor in the first movie. Likely. There's a shitload of symbolism going on with the costumes. Minimalism means that every detail that IS there means something.
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Jul 1, 2023 06:43
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Halloween Jack posted:That's precisely what he would do. He would do that and thereby challenge the viewer to make their own judgment. That's why he's good.
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Jul 1, 2023 08:10
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We gonna hash out the same Synder convo where neither side gives an inch in this, the completely unrelated Dune thread?
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Jul 1, 2023 08:38
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Bugblatter posted:We gonna hash out the same Synder convo where neither side gives an inch in this, the completely unrelated Dune thread? Yeah man, gently caress Snyder.
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Jul 1, 2023 10:27
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dingo with a joint posted:Yeah man, gently caress Snyder. I don’t really like most of his movies, but the people who dislike him are way worse than his fans.
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Jul 1, 2023 10:38
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So are the spice workers native to Arrakis or is it a roughneck oil worker thing?
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Jul 1, 2023 12:38
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The Harkonnens trying to las down Duncan felt, to me, like one of those Easter egg moments for those familiar with the setting. Is it a tactically stupid thing for the Harkonnens to do? Maybe, but in the heat if battle maybe you just want to go scorched earth to ensure the Atreides are completely gone. It also adds that extra bit of tension because "dang, Paul would REALLY remember Duncan's sacrifice if he dies in nuclear hellfire". I likened it to (my interpretation of) Jamis appearing in Paul's visions. It's a good narrative device to show his awakening prescience, but for those familiar with the text, you can go "oh hey, Paul IS a friend of Jamis, in a roundabout way"
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Jul 1, 2023 12:54
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Aurubin posted:So are the spice workers native to Arrakis or is it a roughneck oil worker thing? The first book has a few hundred dune men leaving the planet with the governorship changing hands, but pretty much everything else we know implies a heavy reliance on local labor.
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Jul 1, 2023 12:55
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Neo Rasa posted:While watching the movie I figured there was a [technobabble] way different ships would know like they get confirmation that the missile hit or whatever and it's just a given that that missile hitting that ship kills its shields or whatever. We assume a lot of them are after Gurney personally because it's a movie and he's a main-ish character so it didn't stand out to me as weird because of that. Personally, I'd also assume that there is a way to detect an active shield, considering how much energy those things must emit to do the things they're supposed to do. Fake edit: It also just dawned on me that the slow things can pierce shields -> fast things can't is neatly mirrored by the whole laser-thing: Low-energy sources of photons (like sunlight, or a lamp), don't trigger any ill effects because the shield doesn't absorb too many of them, due to the lower energy density. But something on the level of a weapons-grade laser triggers the shield and tries to absorb all those photons, all at once. Since photons don't have mass, whatever weird quantum-bullshit happens next is probably really bad. It's an interesting idea, even if energy shields in Dune basically work the opposite of most SF-franchises I know.
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Jul 1, 2023 13:09
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Aurubin posted:So are the spice workers native to Arrakis or is it a roughneck oil worker thing? The movie gives us little to go on. On the one hand it would make sense if everyone involved in the Spice mining operation is from off-world, on the other hand Leto rescuing the crew seems to be a big deal to the natives. I guess they could admire the way he cares for his people, but I always took it as a sign for them that he cares about them too.
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Jul 1, 2023 13:31
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You're not the first person to point that out. The spice workers and labor relations in general are a huge blind spot in Dune. You'd think the spice workers would be able to extract enormous concessions from their lord.
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Jul 1, 2023 13:59
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Arglebargle III posted:You're not the first person to point that out. The spice workers and labor relations in general are a huge blind spot in Dune. You'd think the spice workers would be able to extract enormous concessions from their lord. It's not like exploiting such a workforce is beyond feudal lords. It could simply be that the miners don't have any idea of their own power and that any past attempts at unionisation have been blocked by the Harkonnens. Or the miners belong to the house that rules at the time, or they are part of the Guild. The latter two options probably mean they are paid handsomly. Since the Dune universe is a bit of a shithole that makes the exploitation angle more likely.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:09
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The Atreides situation in Book 1 suggests that the spice workers could demand almost anything and get it. But they don't. You'd think Leto would at least mention this to Paul when he's talking about how he's planning to keep the populace in line with propaganda and good deeds rather than coercion, but he doesn't. Surely it would have occurred to the spice workers that they're sitting at the galactic choke point. Does the Imperium have their families hostage? Do they execute them and import scabs if they do so much as whisper about organizing? The book doesn't say. It's a glaring omission. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 1, 2023 |
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Jul 1, 2023 14:17
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Arglebargle III posted:You're not the first person to point that out. The spice workers and labor relations in general are a huge blind spot in Dune. You'd think the spice workers would be able to extract enormous concessions from their lord. Depends some on the particulars of spice harvesting, I'd think. It's clearly very dangerous work, but it's unclear whether it's particularly difficult/skilled work. If not, it'd be quite feasible to find scabs whenever necessary. And after all, it's still (space) feudalism. If the workers were to launch any sort of industrial action, it'd be considered perfectly acceptable for the current rulers of the place to retaliate with pretty much arbitrary levels of brutality. And they do have a uniquely powerful lever with being able to control the Arrakeens' access to water.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:21
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or maybe it's because the concept of a union is anathema to herbert as a writer. while he is critical of 60s conceptions of eugenics- and drug-powered ubermenschen, he also seems to put no stock at all into the power of collective action, believing only that the masses can be moved by being directed by singular personas or oligarchic entities
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Jul 1, 2023 14:31
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Yeah but he also constantly refers to Jungian notions of “race consciousness”. Trying to pin Herbert down on his post WW2 politics is a fools errand because he was truly iconoclastic in his views.
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Jul 1, 2023 14:36
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Not a book reader but from the movie isn’t “spice harvesting” just driving a big rear end car around in circles until enough has been collected? That doesn’t seem particularly skilled/difficult especially since they don’t need to worry about following road laws like CDL drivers in real life need to do. It seemed like there were other people involved who watch out for worms and other people involved who fly in to pick up the harvesters when someone calls it in.
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Jul 1, 2023 15:09
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Just make sure the carryall pilots are in the union.
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Jul 1, 2023 16:02
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Boris Galerkin posted:Not a book reader but from the movie isn’t “spice harvesting” just driving a big rear end car around in circles until enough has been collected? That doesn’t seem particularly skilled/difficult especially since they don’t need to worry about following road laws like CDL drivers in real life need to do. We don't get a lot of detail about what goes on inside a harvester even in the book, so you're not wrong. What we know is that a spice deposit can be found where it's mixed in with the sand in sufficient quantities to send a harvester out, where it seems to hoover it up and then separate the spice from the sand. It may just be a huge vacuum and a complicated sieve. Whatever it is, it's enough repetitive industrial action to draw worms in like crazy, so yeah a harvester always has thopter scouts to watch for wormsign and a carryall on call to haul it out. The Fremen don't seem to use harvesters the same way the Imperials do, but again we don't get told much about what their harvesting operation looks like, at least in the first book. (I don't remember if it comes up later, but I don't think so.) But they must do it because they use spice for everything they can - it's somehow processed to make paper. It's their most abundant resource after sand and rock. But for all we know they go out with giant sieves and sift the sand like someone panning for gold.
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Jul 1, 2023 16:24
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it’s happening https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/denis-villeneuve-wants-to-end-his-dune-trilogy-with-a-dune-messiah-adaptation/1100-6515626/
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Jul 1, 2023 16:26
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Power Walrus posted:Just make sure the carryall pilots are in the union. Do you think the carryall pilots are teamsters or did the teamsters become the spacing guild?
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Jul 1, 2023 16:35
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:it’s happening the original deadline article which this article quotes doesn't provide a source for actual confirmation of dunc 3. dv hasn't made mention of it that I can find since before the release of dunc 1, when he says he would like to adapt messiah as a third movie (this was before even part 2 was confirmed), and the studio certainly hasn't made any mention of a third movie. it seems like a no brainer but remember this is WB we're talking about—david zaslav's WB, no less
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Jul 1, 2023 17:01
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dunc 3 is greenlit but they're bringing in jj abrams to direct
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Jul 1, 2023 17:10
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Grendels Dad posted:…any past attempts at unionisation have been blocked by the Harkonnens. I’d assume it’s this, right? This isn’t a system with actual laws or protections for laborers, it’s a bunch of subjects living in separate fiefdoms with no real recourse for mistreatment of any kind. And the Harkonnens who ran the show for decades were superlative in their cruelty, even by the standard of that system. If spice miners tried to push back against Rabban, he could just slice their heads off in front of the replacement crew. By the time Leto took over, they were literally willing to get eaten in a harvester vs leaving behind spice. They’re not asking for Labor Day off. Bugblatter posted:I don’t really like most of [Zack Snyder’s] movies, but the people who dislike him are way worse than his fans. It’s pretty weird how insane people imagine his politics or outlook to be. Dune (the book) is pretty explicit about how Paul becoming a messiah who inspires a jihad is a bad thing. I don’t see why the guy who turned Superman into a dour exploration of the ethics behind power would throw out this fairly central theme.
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Jul 1, 2023 17:11
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I always imagined spice harvesters to be really dangerous machines. Mechanical stuff and sand/dust doesn’t go great together, so the workers are probably cleaning and repairing it in real time given how precious the time spent mining is. The David Lynch movie probably colored my view a little since it looks like a grungy factory internally.  I do wonder about the Fremen spice mining but given that there’s only a population of millions and they have reign over most of the planet (versus the trillions(?) that need to be supplied out of the industrial side) they might use less efficient manual means. Teaching a bunch of blue collar off-worlders to walk without rhythm while working out in the open desert probably doesn’t work too well, nor would it scale enough to produce the quantity of spice needed for literally the rest of the known universe. Besides, I don’t know where the Fremen would get a harvester from unless they built their own. They can’t exactly roll on in to their local Intergalactic Harvester dealer and finance one without raising a lot of questions. Stealing one would be possible I guess, but you would also have to nab the carryall and take out all the scouts and hope it gets blamed on a sandstorm. Plus there’s all the equipment needed to maintain the harvester and carryall which is probably sizable.
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Jul 1, 2023 17:44
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:dunc 3 is greenlit but they're bringing in jj abrams to direct Somehow, the Baron returned.
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Jul 1, 2023 17:50
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Fremen spice mining. https://twitter.com/erichhartmann/status/1593799658047930374?s=20
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Jul 1, 2023 18:04
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Jewmanji posted:Somehow, the Baron returned. Sorry that doesn’t happen till the book after Messiah.
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Jul 1, 2023 18:05
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Given the Fremen filtration technology is drat good and miniaturised for the stillsuits, I imagine they have similar principles at work to harvest spice. When they live out in the desert closer to worm territory and can more confidently navigate it, they can probably set up smaller operations- not as powerful as a harvester, but a lot more of them, and all the time. Especially since there can be enough spice in the air itself to give Paul a contact high, which I think was in the book as well? And I imagine operating the spice rigs is some pretty awful Victorian era poo poo at best. (Though I imagine it's hard to really stop the crew skimming a bit off the top) At the best of times they're large, complex machinery being used in an environment that specifically fucks up machinery, and losing them is pretty common, especially since every spice harvest is basically a risk/reward balancing act between gathering as much spice as possible and taking off before the worms inevitably arrive. IIRC the book points out some Fremen are on the crew, and choose to stay behind on the sand, which confuses the rest who don't realise they can literally walk home.
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Jul 1, 2023 18:11
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galagazombie posted:Sorry that doesn’t happen till the book after Messiah. Children of Dune kind of sucked.
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Jul 1, 2023 19:33
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Arglebargle III posted:The Atreides situation in Book 1 suggests that the spice workers could demand almost anything and get it. But they don't. Nobody but the Fremen really knows where spice comes from, specifically. So all the workers could do is say "we aren't going to mine anymore". At which point you are killed and new workers are brought in. It's not hard, the work itself wants to kill you as is. You need an entire House supporting you to stay alive. The planet itself is brutally inhospitable. Your revolt could be put down simply by doing nothing. The Houses, society at large, generally isn't redlining spice. They have reserves in case of war or other hardship, the second you stop spice production they go to that and then they murder you. What Paul does is different. It's not "We won't work", it's explaining what spice actually is and how he can eliminate it forever. It's an order of magnitude more threatening. Workers, you kill and replace. Their society hasn't really bothered to come up with an alternative to spice on a large scale. If it just stopped, they'd lose everything. The general apathy of the setting is such that nobody really stopped to consider where the most important thing in the universe actually came from. You get spice from the sands of Dune, and it doesn't seem to run out, and that's that. Keep on keeping on.
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Jul 1, 2023 20:57
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uber_stoat posted:Fremen spice mining. Love to get myself completely covered in whatever cancer causing stuff that is especially without a hard hat even though there’s swinging heavy equipment at head level, just to prove to the boys that I’m a manly man.
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Jul 1, 2023 23:16
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Boris Galerkin posted:Love to get myself completely covered in whatever cancer causing stuff that is especially without a hard hat even though there’s swinging heavy equipment at head level, just to prove to the boys that I’m a manly man. The funny thing about that video is that the shirtless one is actually the CEO or someone similarly high in the company, and this video was him trying to prove that a bunch of the standard safety measures aren’t actually necessary and making a total loving mess of the site in the process. There’s video of other people doing this exact same procedure and it’s not nearly as much of a loving horrorshow when someone who knows that they’re doing is doing the job.
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Jul 1, 2023 23:27
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:The funny thing about that video is that the shirtless one is actually the CEO or someone similarly high in the company, and this video was him trying to prove that a bunch of the standard safety measures aren’t actually necessary and making a total loving mess of the site in the process. There’s video of other people doing this exact same procedure and it’s not nearly as much of a loving horrorshow when someone who knows that they’re doing is doing the job. I’d be interested in watching how it’s suppose to be done but I have no idea what to even google for cause I have no clue what they’re even doing.
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Jul 1, 2023 23:52
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I think he's building a submarine
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Jul 2, 2023 00:10
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’d be interested in watching how it’s suppose to be done but I have no idea what to even google for cause I have no clue what they’re even doing. Working in the diarrhea factory
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Jul 2, 2023 00:11
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Martman posted:I think he's building a submarine God drat, lol
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Jul 2, 2023 00:13
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Martman posted:I think he's building a submarine At least it looks like it’s made out of metal.
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Jul 2, 2023 00:23
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