Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Hasselblad: Dec 13, 2017; My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.

Gath posted:

*all the bad things....corpses/prisoners

Holy hell just look at this video. Basicly all the hell of war...

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

TM edit: Removed video with corpses and poo poo

We slept on corpses of suckers. What can I tell you - at least it's soft.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 04:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 00:16

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1675293211818876929

# ? Jul 2, 2023 05:03

Samovar: Jun 4, 2011; When I want to relax, I read an essay by Engels. When I want something more serious, I read Corto Maltese.

Hang on, I thought the poison dwarf was Beria?

# ? Jul 2, 2023 05:15

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

Samovar posted:

Hang on, I thought the poison dwarf was Beria?

No, poison dwarf was yezhov. I can't recall a nickname for Beria off the top of my head except that Stalin jokingly introduced him to foreigners a couple of times as "my Himmler".

# ? Jul 2, 2023 05:18

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

since nukechat is all the rage i thought i'd write a post about how the ussr was viewed with light to soviet forces and projected capabilities for strategic nuclear conflict extrapolated out ten years from the late 80s, a western force posture review which would be rendered ironically obsolete soon after adoption as the soviet union collapsed around itself in 1991.

pretend there's some hold muzak here while i write brb

# ? Jul 2, 2023 05:32

Gnoman: Feb 12, 2014; Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme

Samovar posted:

Hang on, I thought the poison dwarf was Beria?

Calling Beria "poison" would be an insult to poison.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 05:39

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Okay so the year is 1987 and perestroika and glasnost are tearing the Soviet Union apart because ~~perfidious Western meddling prevented true socialism from emerging~~ the USSR had failed to do many things correctly, only one of which is relevant to this post. That one thing is the outsized Soviet military compared to its GDP that was acting as a leeching parasite on the Soviet economy.

In particular the CIA was concerned about the Soviet nuclear arsenal and a force projection estimate was asked for by President Ronald "Slurpeebrains" Raygun about the Soviet strategic nuclear forces and how/what they might be capable of doing entering the new millennium (note that it was so unfathomable that the USSR would cease to exist that even in all the turmoil of the late 1980s the West was basically caught loving the goat's rear end when it came to the USSR dissolving in 1991)

The key takeaways from this force estimate are basically this:

Strategic Offensive Forces

- The Soviets will extensively modernize their strategic offensive forces between 1987 and the late 1990s to be more capable, diverse, and more survivable

- More Soviet nuclear warheads would be deployed on subs and mobile ICBMs, while a smaller but still substantial portion would remain in fixed silos

- Major force changes would include:
- Deploying a new, silo-based heavy ICBM designed for hardened targets. This would be an ICBM with a MIRV delivery system holding 10 warheads, and western intelligence expected them to be much more survivable and mobile due to the new deployment of mobile launchers (we know these as TOPOL-M)

- SLBMS: an increased deployment of better nuclear powered ballistic missile subs as well as a new generation of SLBMs. The expectation was the USSR would built eight new Typhoon subs that each carried 12 to 14 Delta-IV SLBMs.

- Bombers and cruise missiles: the modernization effort was expected to give the heavy bomber force a greater role in intercontinental attacks with more weapons and more weapon diversity. Interesting to note here that the production of Bear H plane, which carried the AS-16 long range air-launched cruise missile, was being wound down in favor of the new Blackjack bomber, which carried both ALCMs and short range missiles. The Soviets were also developing a stealth bomber, something which was classified at the time but would much later turn out to be the prototypes for the S-57 vaporware aircraft.

Strategic Defensive Forces

- Air Defense: The Soviets possessed a strong capability against low flying bombers and cruise missiles, which was expected to continue developing due to the introduction of the Mainstay AWACS system (Mainstay is the Beriev A-50), a rare command and control aircraft that only had about 40 produced in total.

- Ballistic missile defense: Western intelligence noted the introduction of the Moscow antiballistic missile defense network with about 100 interceptors planned to be operational by the late 80s. This was of special concern at the time because the Soviets would have developed all the required components to make an ABM system that could have been used for breaching the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and there was a lot of concern that the Soviet advances in ABM technology would mean a new air defense network could be deployed with a few more computing advances (note my previous posts about Soviet computing and how they deliberately chose not to implement a system which would have allowed them to do this..)

- Western intelligence discovered and reported the existence of hardened underground command posts for military and political leaders, entire underground complexes of bunkers, tunnels, secret subway lines, and other facilities (the US had its own redoubts in place, I'll do a post about US Civil Defense later)

- Anti-sub warfare: Western intelligence dunked on the Soviet inability to detect US submarines at sea regularly. And to be fair so did most other NATO navies. The Soviets were not expected to be capable of the technology required to detect US SSBNs patrolling in open ocean for "at least another 20-25 years"

- Laser weapons: Intelligence noted strong evidence of Soviet efforts to develop high energy lasers for air defense, anti-satellite and anti-ballistic missile defense, and their successes. It was expected that the Soviets could deploy mobile tactical air defense lasers by the early 1990s (lmao) followed by more powerful strategic and naval systems later. Intelligence also noted that there were limited capability prototypes in some cases and that development could produce workable weapons by the mid-90s (it did not)

- Other Advanced Technologies: Intelligence reported that the Soviets were working on ASAT and ABMD weapons, and thankfully I guess, the Soviets were noted to be working on prototype particle-beam weaponry ( :wtc:

) with the goal of developing particle-beam ASAT and ABMD weaponry

This is already getting long so I'll stop here and go play some Microsoft Flight Sim, if i feel like it I'll type up more

# ? Jul 2, 2023 05:53

Pekinduck: May 10, 2008

HonorableTB posted:

prigozhin's gonna get this treatment

A character reference of the guy soviet-shooped out:

quote:

In the whole of my�now, alas, already long�life, I had to meet few people who, by their nature, were as repellent as Yezhov. Watching him, I am frequently reminded of those evil boys from Rasteryayeva Street workshops, whose favorite form of entertainment was to light a piece of paper tied to the tail of a cat drenched with kerosene, and relish in watching the cat scamper down the street in maddening horror, unable to rid itself of the flames that are getting closer and closer. I have no doubt that Yezhov, in fact, utilized this type of entertainment in his childhood, and he continues to do that in a different form in a different field at present.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 06:16

Gnoman: Feb 12, 2014; Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme

HonorableTB posted:

- SLBMS: an increased deployment of better nuclear powered ballistic missile subs as well as a new generation of SLBMs. The expectation was the USSR would built eight new Typhoon subs that each carried 12 to 14 Delta-IV SLBMs.

A Typhoon that could carry 14 Delta-IVs would be impressive indeed. Delta IV is the NATO designation for the Project 667BDRM Delfin SSBN submarines (it is also the designation of a US satellite launch rocket, which may have caused the confusion in your source). The SLBM carried by the Typhoons was the SS-N-20 Sturgeon / R-39 Rif.

quote:

- Ballistic missile defense: Western intelligence noted the introduction of the Moscow antiballistic missile defense network with about 100 interceptors planned to be operational by the late 80s. This was of special concern at the time because the Soviets would have developed all the required components to make an ABM system that could have been used for breaching the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and there was a lot of concern that the Soviet advances in ABM technology would mean a new air defense network could be deployed with a few more computing advances (note my previous posts about Soviet computing and how they deliberately chose not to implement a system which would have allowed them to do this..)
[/quote[

The ABM system around Moscow was authorized by treaty, with the first system entering into service in 1972. The version probably discussed here (that went operational in '95, and is still there) was an upgrade system that the US also knew a great deal about due to it also being done in compliance with the ABM treaty.

There was no need for "developing required components" to breach the treaty - they had that capacity when the treaty was signed. So did the US - that's why the treaty was signed - the two powers wanted to avoid another expensive arms race, and it was heavily feared that ABM systems would undermine the balance of terror that kept the Cold War cold.

[quote]
the Soviets were noted to be working on prototype particle-beam weaponry () with the goal of developing particle-beam ASAT and ABMD weaponry

This isn't that outlandish. Not only was the US also working on the same thing, a prototype system was test flown in 1989 and fired in space. You can visit it at the Smithsonian if you're so inclined. The Beam Experiments Aboard Rockets device wasn't powerful enough to be useful as a weapon, but it isn't impossible that a scale-up could have been done if the end of the Cold War hadn't killed the project.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 06:19

AARP LARPer: Feb 19, 2005; THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR; Buglord

Kchama posted:

Apparently the Russian state media said that he will never ever be mentioned again and erasing all mention of him from everything, which implies that he won't be doing anything ever again. Because he's dead.

Thank you, friend!

# ? Jul 2, 2023 06:27

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

HonorableTB posted:

Okay so the year is 1987 and perestroika and glasnost are tearing the Soviet Union apart because ~~perfidious Western meddling prevented true socialism from emerging~~ the USSR had failed to do many things correctly, only one of which is relevant to this post. That one thing is the outsized Soviet military compared to its GDP that was acting as a leeching parasite on the Soviet economy.

I find it helpful to put a sense of scale on this - so contemporaneous 1980s CIA estimates were 15%-17% of GNP on the Soviet side (relative to about 5% on the US side after the steady buildup); more dovish (i.e., Western left-wing) observers argued that the Soviets actually steadily maintained at 10% since the 1970s and that there was no buildup, whereas more hawkish Committee on the Present Danger-type estimates put it at 20%. The Soviets themselves maintained that it was 2% until Gorbachev disclosed in 1989 that it had probably been 9% since 1987. In retrospect the higher figure was probably right, albeit because the denominator was wrong; the Soviet economy had been smaller than estimated.

How much of a burden was this, in a domestic political sense? For comparison, on the eve of the Carnation Revolution Portugal was spending a princely 6.8% of GNP on its sprawling colonial empire. That 3~% of peace dividend was sufficient to collapse the domestic will to defend its claims. In that sense it's impressive how long the Soviets managed to hold on after Soviet oil productivity had peaked in the late 1970s.

ronya fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jul 2, 2023

# ? Jul 2, 2023 06:32

Samovar: Jun 4, 2011; When I want to relax, I read an essay by Engels. When I want something more serious, I read Corto Maltese.

If Prigozhin is actually dead, he's going to go down in history as being more stupid than Putin.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 06:38

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

ronya posted:

I find it helpful to put a sense of scale on this - so contemporaneous 1980s CIA estimates were 15%-17% of GNP on the Soviet side (relative to about 5% on the US side after the steady buildup); more dovish (i.e., Western left-wing) observers argued that the Soviets actually steadily maintained at 10% since the 1970s and that there was no buildup, whereas more hawkish Committee on the Present Danger-type estimates put it at 20%. The Soviets themselves maintained that it was 2% until Gorbachev disclosed in 1989 that it had probably been 9% since 1987. In retrospect the higher figure was probably right, albeit because the denominator was wrong; the Soviet economy had been smaller than estimated.

How much of a burden was this, in a domestic political sense? For comparison, on the eve the Carnation Revolution Portugal was spending a princely 6.8% of GNP on its sprawling colonial empire. That 3~% of peace dividend was sufficient to collapse the domestic will to defend its claims. In that sense it's impressive how long the Soviets managed to hold on after Soviet oil productivity had peaked in the late 1970s.

Thanks for adding this context!

# ? Jul 2, 2023 06:45

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

HonorableTB posted:

(note that it was so unfathomable that the USSR would cease to exist that even in all the turmoil of the late 1980s the West was basically caught loving the goat's rear end when it came to the USSR dissolving in 1991)

i was at the "barely aware of my own dick let alone the world around me" stage of childhood back when this happened so i had no concept of it at the time. it took until i graduated college for me to comment on how ridiculous the situation was to myself. then when i started asking other people i respected a lot about the situation - including a lot of military folks, my mother's side of the family has a hugely strong tradition of military service - i was doubly surprised to find out that even people who were middle aged had a pretty similar experience. lots of stuff like "yeah, it was so shocking we just didn't believe it for the first month. then after we finally accepted it, it had been so long since it happened it was already the new normal."

it did a fair bit to explain a lot of what we would later call the boomer mentality that the single biggest historical event since V-J day just sort of sailed by for so many people. the Great Enemy is here today, gone tomorrow, but nobody really took the time to bury their old ways of thinking.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 07:58

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1675389443262369792
8 Shaheds and 3 cruise missiles were shot down last night over Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1675397140888027136
Heavy battles, both artillery and skirmishes, continue to be fought in the area of Ukraine's bridgehead across the Dnipro.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1675398538568556544
24th Aidar battalion reports further advances in the area of Bakhmut.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:09

Sucrose: Dec 9, 2009

When (and not if) the Ukrainians retake Bakhmut, Russian morale is going to completely collapse.

On another note, has anyone else noticed that Google Earth is now showing images from early in the war? Look at Antonov Airport on Google Earth and the area around it.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:15

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

TulliusCicero posted:

Hot Dog Man became one with his Job

Lmao he could have been Czar, at the very least caused Putin to die of panic

doobnatio memoriae

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:16

NoiseAnnoys: May 17, 2010

Randarkman posted:

Oh Yezhov... "the poison dwarf" (keep in mind he's standing next to Stalin who was about 5'6"). I can't remember the exact quotes but IIRC several people who met him described him as the most despicable person they had ever met*.

One version of his execution has him being executed by Vasily Blokhin, the gut who performed most of the big name (and probably alot much lower down as well) executions during Stalin's purges as well as personally doing about half of Katyn.

*Maybe deserves a bit of an addendum to that as Yezhov was accused of being gay, which played a role in condemning him during his show trial, and thus due to that one might be wise to maybe be a bit suspicious of some of the accusations thrown against him for being particularly, noteworthy vile.

Yezhov absolutely was a vile, despicable creature.. being gay had nothing to do with it.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:17

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

ChickenHeart posted:

Which brand of hotdogs do you think he'll show up in? Everyone and their mother are claiming "Oscar Mayer" but if you ask me I think Priggy's more of a "Ballpark Franks" kind of deposed warlord.

Long Prig

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:26

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Alan Smithee posted:

Long Prig

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:30

Nice piece of fish: Jan 29, 2008; Ultra Carp

Alan Smithee posted:

Long Prig

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:33

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

HonorableTB posted:

prigozhin's gonna get this treatment

today Russia can use AI technology to remove Yezhov from photo (An Icepick (through the eyeball))

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:34

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

Alan Smithee posted:

Long Prig

# ? Jul 2, 2023 08:38

ChubbyChecker: Mar 25, 2018

weg posted:

Call of Looty

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:05

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

weg posted:

Call of Looty

Smash TV fps

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:06

Icept: Jul 11, 2001

do you think the russians have discovered the devastating "OMA tubing" tech yet?

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:08

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1675410206526783489

Sorry, we had to cut some corners, but look, we can make 1,600 tanks per month

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:08

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

ChickenHeart posted:

Which brand of hotdogs do you think he'll show up in? Everyone and their mother are claiming "Oscar Mayer" but if you ask me I think Priggy's more of a "Ballpark Franks" kind of deposed warlord.

For maximum indignity

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:33

NoiseAnnoys: May 17, 2010

steinrokkan posted:

For maximum indignity

great, now i'll never go to kostelec u jihlavy ever again.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:47

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

steinrokkan posted:

For maximum indignity

youze a ninny

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:58

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1675410206526783489

Sorry, we had to cut some corners, but look, we can make 1,600 tanks per month

In WWII less than 10% of T-34s were built to spec, as factories attempting to reach absurd quotas did so by omitting whichever components they could get away with.

Stalin assumed that the ridiculously large amount of breakdowns was due to internal sabotage.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 09:59

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Tunicate posted:

Stalin assumed that the ridiculously large amount of breakdowns was due to internal sabotage.

He wasn't completely wrong. 200 tanks that can make it from the railhead to the front lines are worth 500 that break down getting out of the rail yard.

e. Yes, I feel dirty for agreeing with Stalin.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:05

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

mllaneza posted:

He wasn't completely wrong. 200 tanks that can make it from the railhead to the front lines are worth 500 that break down getting out of the rail yard.

e. Yes, I feel dirty for agreeing with Stalin.

The point is, Stalin himself was the saboteur because of the way the war economy was run, specifically the sword of Damocles hanging over factory management if they did not meet quota.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:09

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

lmao 1600 tanks a month....made of lego

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:09

barbecue at the folks: Jul 20, 2007

Tai posted:

lmao 1600 tanks a month....made of lego

Made of Chinese bootleg Lego with the pieces that fit together badly because sanctions, more like it

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:13

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

mllaneza posted:

He wasn't completely wrong. 200 tanks that can make it from the railhead to the front lines are worth 500 that break down getting out of the rail yard.

e. Yes, I feel dirty for agreeing with Stalin.

Stalin thought it was sabotage from inside the tanks from cowards who didnt want to fight

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:16

boofhead: Feb 18, 2021

If you set targets based on sheer fantasy for specific people and the punishment for failure is death, it is not "sabotage" when those people compromise with reality to try their hardest to meet those targets in a way that hopefully minimises their chance of being killed

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:54

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

Carth Dookie posted:

One down, ~~one~~ hundreds to go imo.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 10:58

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

Stalin was a bad leader who was only successful at cultivating a cult of personality. The soviet union was successful in his era despite, not because of himself.

This fact will -really- upset some people.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 11:53

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 00:16

Rock Puncher: Jul 26, 2014

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Stalin was a bad leader who was only successful at cultivating a cult of personality. The soviet union was successful in his era despite, not because of himself.

This fact will -really- upset some people.

report to cspam for mandatory unemployment period so you can appreciate the mass murderering commies more

# ? Jul 2, 2023 11:56

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

«‹›1442 »