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Wasabi the J posted:I think about this piece of fiction a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHLU0Uej1WA edit: hell yeah nuclear snipe 
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Jul 3, 2023 01:15
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Wasabi the J posted:I think about this piece of fiction a lot Yeah they assumed competent Russian ground forces
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Jul 3, 2023 01:30
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Flikken posted:Yeah they assumed competent Russian ground forces Until last February, EVERYONE did.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:45
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steinrokkan posted:You drink 6 liters of coffee? i knew a guy in rehab who filled a water bottle with coffee multiple times a day he was kicking meth. he also immediately went back to meth when he got out.
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Jul 3, 2023 01:58
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Herman Merman posted:This is incredibly delusional and you should think before you post. Are you incapable of grasping nuance or are you just being obtuse? In case it's the former, let me be specific: Putin would be forced to resort to nuclear weapons. A nuclear armed country with a woefully incompetent military is extremely dangerous, like an out of shape cop with a gun. psydude fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 07:24
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psydude posted:Are you incapable of grasping nuance or are you just being obtuse? As long as ground zero is Williamsburg, Brooklyn it’ll be ok.
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Jul 3, 2023 07:30
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TheWeedNumber posted:As long as ground zero is Williamsburg, Brooklyn it’ll be ok. bonus is that they take out florida too! 
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Jul 3, 2023 07:37
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Neophyte posted:a higher res version: It's so quaint now "Russian cruise missiles destroy AEGIS system in Romania" lol
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Jul 3, 2023 07:38
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psydude posted:Are you incapable of grasping nuance or are you just being obtuse? No he really wouldn't be forced. It's still a choice that is informed by many other incentives, almost all of which have been designed by rational actors to strongly incentivize "please do not". Putin is not the country, the country is not Putin, the procedures do not entirely belong to him. I don't mean to say it isn't worrying and worth consideration, and I especially don't mean to invoke clancychat, but I like to think it is being considered, and also that nuclear blackmail with one (1) extra step isn't fooling anyone on this side of the fence/curtain/whatever.
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Jul 3, 2023 08:02
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tiaz posted:No he really wouldn't be forced. It's still a choice that is informed by many other incentives, almost all of which have been designed by rational actors to strongly incentivize "please do not". Putin is not the country, the country is not Putin, the procedures do not entirely belong to him. I'd very much like for you to be right, but I don't share your optimistic view of Russian society writ large. Putin has convinced himself that he is the country and the country itself has let out an apathetic shrug. Even during the coup, they kept going on about their lives as if nothing happening was of any of their concern. psydude fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 09:45
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psydude posted:I'd very much like for you to be right, but I don't share your optimistic view of Russian society writ large. Putin has convinced himself that he is the country and the country itself has let out an apathetic shrug. Even during the coup, they kept going on about their lives as if nothing happening was of any of their concern. The coup fizzled out in one day and in the only population center it had presence in it warranted only "look, there are tanks on a parking lot, lmao", I dont know what you expected of population at large.
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Jul 3, 2023 11:06
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fatherboxx posted:The coup fizzled out in one day and in the only population center it had presence in it warranted only "look, there are tanks on a parking lot, lmao", I dont know what you expected of population at large. That's my point. Nobody gives a poo poo what Putin and those in power do, including bringing the world to the brink of canned sunshine.
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Jul 3, 2023 11:08
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psydude posted:That's my point. Nobody gives a poo poo what Putin and those in power do, including bringing the world to the brink of canned sunshine. I'm fairly confident that most of the Western world civilian populace would have the same reaction to tanks and troops rolling in their yard until they started shooting at them. Maybe France would put up civil unrest for the sake of it.
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Jul 3, 2023 11:17
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SlowBloke posted:I'm fairly confident that most of the Western world civilian populace would have the same reaction to tanks and troops rolling in their yard until they started shooting at them. Maybe France would put up civil unrest for the sake of it. france would be fine with it, probably even after the shooting at them part, as long as they claimed the tanks were there to punish immigrants
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Jul 3, 2023 11:24
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tiaz posted:No he really wouldn't be forced. It's still a choice that is informed by many other incentives, almost all of which have been designed by rational actors to strongly incentivize "please do not". Putin is not the country, the country is not Putin, the procedures do not entirely belong to him. The MAD incentives designed by rational actors specifically demand that Nato/US and WP/Russian regular troops never intentionally shoot at each other. There can be "advisors", "volunteers", free arms shipments, "irrelevant skirmishes" and so on. But no intentional orders to fight the other side. When NATO had troops in Vietnam, Russia stuck to "advisors" and arms gifts. When the SU had troops in Afghanistan, Nato stuck to "advisors" and arms gifts. And now Russia has troops in Ukraine and Nato sticks to "advisors" and arms gifts. That is the MAD deal. I have not heard of anybody close to authority on the NATO side recommending violating MAD. Now it is possible that the attacked will decide to pretend any given fight counts as minor, or even to not follow the deal and refrain from Nuking and effectively end MAD. But, if Nato sends regular troops to Ukraine it involves everybody involved trusting in Putin's will to abandon the 50 year old MAD doctrine and allow this break for the good of mankind. Even the Russians arguing that Nato will end MAD in case of Russian attack seem to be shitposters instead of decision makers.
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Jul 3, 2023 11:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:france would be fine with it, probably even after the shooting at them part, as long as they claimed the tanks were there to punish immigrants Here in Germany some old lady would run out and scold them for idling their engines and making noise during the ruhezeiten. And the cops would ticket them immediately for being parked illegally.
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Jul 3, 2023 11:48
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The trick is to park on the sidewalks or bike paths, then people have to threaten a Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde before the cops ticket the tank. As long as you don't impede vroom vroom you are good to go.
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Jul 3, 2023 12:17
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China has a ton of nuclear power plants, and is building loads more. It's a key part of their future energy strategy. They apparently had a lot of pushback by their populace over that after Fukishima. Like projects were cancelled in some areas. I'm not saying it's a massive priority that's he'd move heaven and earth to avoid. But, I'm pretty sure Xi would really, really, prefer there not to be any more massive meltdowns anywhere that'd enflame further domestic opposition. Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 12:18
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steinrokkan posted:It's so quaint now My favorite line is “state-of-the-art Akula class nuclear submarines”.  Though, I guess even the Virginias are two decades old at this point.
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Jul 3, 2023 13:03
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Deptfordx posted:China has a ton of nuclear power plants, and is building loads more. It's a key part of their future energy strategy. They apparently had a lot of pushback by their populace over that after Fukishima. Like projects were cancelled in some areas. The lesson should be that nevermind "what if meltdown" but the fact that they are a huge loving target in any terrorist action or war and a huge national vulnerability so really don't build them unless you have no other option.
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Jul 3, 2023 13:14
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psydude posted:I'd very much like for you to be right, but I don't share your optimistic view of Russian society writ large. Putin has convinced himself that he is the country and the country itself has let out an apathetic shrug. Even during the coup, they kept going on about their lives as if nothing happening was of any of their concern. That was what the US did during its coup too.
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Jul 3, 2023 13:16
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:bonus is that they take out florida too! Ooh, I hadn't checked since moving. I'm a goner in a 2,000 warhead scenario, and about 40 miles downwind of a target for 500.
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Jul 3, 2023 13:38
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Carth Dookie posted:The lesson should be that nevermind "what if meltdown" but the fact that they are a huge loving target in any terrorist action or war and a huge national vulnerability so really don't build them unless you have no other option. This is a bad take and you should be ashamed. Power grids are a huge national vulnerability in all cases, and nuclear is still safer than gas, meltdowns included.
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Jul 3, 2023 13:52
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:bonus is that they take out florida too! Get hosed Boise
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Jul 3, 2023 13:57
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That map is pretty drat old. For example, they have the Burlington VT area targeted in a limited engagement to take out Plattsburgh Air Force Base. Which closed in 1995 and is now a civilian facility.
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Jul 3, 2023 13:59
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VictualSquid posted:When NATO had troops in Vietnam, Russia stuck to "advisors" and arms gifts. This is a very strained use of "NATO".
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Jul 3, 2023 14:04
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:bonus is that they take out florida too! Isn't this pretty much "First strike with 2000 warheads - Focus on military" and "Retribution strike with 500 warheads - Focus on civilians"
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Jul 3, 2023 14:05
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Rust Martialis posted:This is a very strained use of "NATO". I'd say in both case examples presented.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:09
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Der Kyhe posted:Isn't this pretty much "First strike with 2000 warheads - Focus on military" and "Retribution strike with 500 warheads - Focus on civilians" In any case, there you have it: Bismarck, ND is the safest place on earth in a nuclear war.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:09
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psydude posted:In any case, there you have it: Bismarck, ND is the safest place on earth in a nuclear war. The living will envy the dead indeed
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Jul 3, 2023 14:10
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Nuclear fire won’t be enough to cleanse the taint that curses the land where Fayetteville and Jacksonville, NC both sit 
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Jul 3, 2023 14:12
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Cimber posted:That map is pretty drat old. For example, they have the Burlington VT area targeted in a limited engagement to take out Plattsburgh Air Force Base. Which closed in 1995 and is now a civilian facility. ...do we know if the Russian targeting data is up to date? Midjack posted:That was what the US did during its coup too. Apologies. It was over before I could get to D.C. to administer some fascism cures. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 14:14
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VictualSquid posted:Now it is possible that the attacked will decide to pretend any given fight counts as minor, or even to not follow the deal and refrain from Nuking and effectively end MAD. But Ukraine gave up its nukes in 1994. In exchange for assurances that Russia (and others) would not screw with Ukraine militarily or economically.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:15
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MAD is "You nuke me I nuke you" not "Mess with my fuckfuck games in another country and I nuke you"
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Jul 3, 2023 14:19
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Am I the only one who doubts Russian nuke capabilities?
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Jul 3, 2023 14:23
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I, for one, don't particularly believe that the Russian Nuclear Stockpile is in a usable state. I think its high time that we stop letting the threat of nuclear war be used to justify "We should let Putin/tinpot dictator of the week do what he wants and do whatever genocide they want."
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Jul 3, 2023 14:23
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Rust Martialis posted:This is a very strained use of "NATO". SEATO will not stand for this. Or, anything at all.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:27
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Icon Of Sin posted:Nuclear fire won’t be enough to cleanse the taint that curses the land where Fayetteville and Jacksonville, NC both sit Jacksonville isn't even listed as a target for some bizarre reason.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:27
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Midjack posted:That was what the US did during its coup too. Nope. We all stopped what we were doing and watched it on TV. I don’t know about you but my first reaction was, “why aren’t there more cops? Surely a couple of hours is enough time to mobilize a few thousand cops from DC and the surrounding areas with APCs and riot control equipment.” Because you know it’s something they had plans for. Which is pretty much what happened. 4-5 hours after it started there were swat teams cuffing the worst offenders and ushering the lookie-loos out. There wasn’t a need to take immediate action by the population at large because it was handled. Not that I can predict what would have happened had it gone on another day with MAGA tanks rolling into the capitol area. But there were no MAGA tanks, no apaches taking hits trying to slow a convoy of RVs and dualies rolling coal up I-95 and so we can save that for next November.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:30
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VictualSquid posted:The MAD incentives designed by rational actors specifically demand that Nato/US and WP/Russian regular troops never intentionally shoot at each other. There's nothing about MAD that says an attack on troops playing extraterritorial imperial gently caress gently caress games necessitates a nuclear response.
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Jul 3, 2023 14:31
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